gavriil

NSX is about 300 pounds lighter but still. The Vette should have won.

chungkopi

i just can't believe a 400hp corvette lost to NSX. this is a joke. also, i really hated their american bashing tone, but i agree with the horrible interior comments. a corvette's interior is worse than any other sports car out there. it is the WORST IMO. there is no way a 50K sports car can look this ugly inside. "this plastic? where do they getting them from?" i agree 100%. american cars will never get a proper respect they deserve unless they do something about the horrible interior. i know it is much better than C5, but that's not enough. cheap cars like scion TC or mazda 3 even has better looking interior dash than corvettes, and that's a big shame.

gavriil

No, I think it was added later. Also, that was not the base Evo.

runnerX

sorry, I have not seeen the video yet (obviously I am at work).. NSX beat C6 on Top Gear? I think that is a setup. No way in hell NSX can beat C6..


look at the comparison here.. I know that is a 97 NSX vs 02 Z06, but NSX has not change a bit tho... still 290hp? 0-60 is one whole second faster..

http://www.car-videos.com/performanc...?ID1=74&ID2=15


check out these sites:

http://www.car-videos.com/performance/track.asp?track=7

http://www.car-videos.com/performance/track.asp?track=2

http://www.car-videos.com/performance/track.asp?track=3


it looks to me the current Z06 is consistently within top 5.

cusdaddy

This is from the British newspaper the Telegraph. Much better British review than that Top Gear rubbish

Little Red Sports Car

America's greatest sports car is turning its sights on Europe. As Peter Hall discovered, Chevrolet's new C6 Corvette is more compact, more powerful and more refined - and an absolute bargain

"I ran a C4 as everyday transport about 15 years ago. It was a great car..."


We were at the opening of the new Cadillac Experience Centre in Dusseldorf for the European relaunch of two of America's most iconic brands, and I was about to tell the vice-president of General Motors my favourite Corvette stories.

The ones that proved its practicality, about how the boot could swallow a complete small-block Chevrolet engine and four jerrycans of fuel, or about the morning I carried a professional caterer girlfriend and a pre-prepared feast for 80 people to a posh wedding reception in London (and maybe even the one about the night before, when her ex-boyfriend had burst into her flat and stamped on the beautiful salmon centerpiece and ended up in hospital).

And how the glass-fibre bodywork survived without a scratch when a zombie flesh eater walked up the bonnet one night at the Elephant and Castle.

And how the seats were the most comfortable I've ever encountered before or since, and how it cost less than £100 to service, and how, despite hard use on road and track, it only ever failed to proceed once, when the little plastic safety switch under the clutch pedal failed, and how it was brilliant fun on snow, and how awesome its sound system was, and how it was never broken into despite someone's attempt to drill the locks in a station car park, and how the company accountants eventually sold it for £4,000 because they thought that a car with 50,000 miles on the clock was virtually worthless even though it was good for 250,000 and really only just run-in, and how if I'd known they were going to give it away I'd have bought it myself because I absolutely loved that car...

Bob Lutz wasn't impressed. "Forget that," he said, with a contemptuous wave of his hand. "Have you driven a C5?" "Yes, I drove one from London to the Nürburgring and back a while ago," I said, glancing at the magnificent C5 racer parked a few feet away, the very car that won the GT class at Le Mans in June. "It was even better."

"Well, when you drive the C6, the C5 will seem like a piece of shit."

That the new Corvette was intended to be a big improvement over the outgoing model was already clear as I perused the press pack on the flight to Germany, where I was to drive the only example in Europe. Anticipation was high, not least because the drive had been postponed twice by GM's European agents.

We had warned them not to give the car to BBC Top Gear first because they'd wreck it, and sure enough, as a result of their antics (see tomorrow night's programme) the car went back to the workshop in Dusseldorf with a stripped clutch, four bald tyres and damaged bodywork. I was impatient to get behind the wheel at last, but I was also prepared to be disappointed.

Sure, it had a new and even bigger engine, an aluminium-alloy, six-litre pushrod V8 developing 400bhp and a whopping 400lb ft of torque, offering 0-62mph in just 4·2 seconds and a top speed of 186mph - true supercar territory. But talk of increased refinement and traction control systems suggested that the simple, elemental appeal of America's one true sports car might have been diluted for the modern world. And then there were the press photos, which gave the impression that the traditionally dramatic styling had been eroded.

In the composite flesh, that impression persists. According to chief engineer Dave Hill, the stylists' aim was to create something that was recognisably a Corvette "from 100 yards", and they have certainly succeeded; save pop-up headlamps, absent for the first time since 1962, all the old visual cues are there: the flat rear deck, the round tail lamps, the glassy rear hatch and laid-back cockpit, the sharky extractor vents aft of the sharply defined front wings, the bonnet bulge, the aggressive snout; there's even an egg-crate grille, albeit invisible from most angles.

But what has really altered the car's physical presence is a reduction in overall size; although the wheelbase has been increased by an inch, it is an inch narrower and crucially five inches shorter than its predecessor thanks to reduced front and rear overhangs.


In fact the new C6 is the same length as a Porsche 911 - compact even by European standards - and only fractionally more than three inches wider. This is most obvious at the front; the characteristically long bonnet has been chopped, with the result that the rear half of the car looks uncomfortably massive from some angles.

It's as if Jeremy Clarkson had revealed a previously unsuspected degree of insecurity and emerged from plastic surgery with Michael Jackson's nose. Maybe GM lost its nerve in its attempt to make its all-American hero a European contender. It certainly wants a lot more European sales - 2,000 per year - than it achieved with the C5.

The designers might boast of "tighter, more athletic dimensions", but a heavyweight boxer could still find a comfortable driving position in the neat and well-finished cockpit. It's as spacious as ever, and provides a surprising amount of storage space (including "high-performance cupholders").

Air conditioning is standard, as you might expect, and the centre console incorporates a satellite navigation and audio system screen. Access is via wide-opening, keyless doors; the car recognises the fob in your pocket (which carries a conventional key for emergency use) and unlocks itself as you approach; the only drawback with this system, of course, is that the doors unlock themselves when you go back to check that they're locked...

Starting is by a button next to the steering column and you are required to push the clutch all the way to the floor as a safety precaution; leaving the gearlever in reverse when you switch off is an additional security measure that shuts down all unnecessary electrical circuits and minimises battery drain.

The rear hatch, meanwhile, is unlocked by a button on the facia (or remotely by the key fob) and opens to reveal a vast load area. This is compromised if you wish to stash away the one-piece roof panel (an easy three-catch-and-lift job, although if that's a struggle there is also a convertible version) but sufficient room remains underneath it for several squashy bags and there is additional storage space concealed beneath the floor; as the Goodyear tyres incorporate 200-mile run-flat technology, there is no spare wheel.

It is surprising that no cover is fitted to hide your luggage from prying eyes, however, and more anchorage points for loose items would be useful.

The seats are not as wonderful as those I remember from 15 years ago, but they provide good support, with 12-way electrical adjustment, and the steering wheel offers variable reach and rake. My immediate impression was of sitting on the car rather than in it - perhaps a consequence of that diminished nose - but a comfortable driving position was easy to find.

That said, I spent some time unsuccessfully trying to gain a clear view of the green-illuminated head-up display projected on to the bottom of windscreen, and found that the only way I could see the whole thing was to recline the seat to a less than ideal, straight-arm driving position.

I later discovered that the height of the display was adjustable, but it was no great loss as the comprehensive and permanently back-lit analogue instruments are perfectly clear. For what it's worth, the head-up display offers two modes: Street includes a range of information such as speed, turn indicators and audio settings (plus gear selection on the automatic model), while Track includes speed, revs, engine gauges and lateral g in corners.

The latter in particular might inspire some of the most boring pub conversations in automotive history; the fact that you normally generate about 0·5g while negotiating a suburban roundabout is of little interest to anyone I know, and the only way to guarantee beating your mates at this particular game is to run head-on into a tree at 186mph.

Not that any sane driver is likely to do so in the C6. Despite the irresistible thrill of unleashing 400 horses and roaring towards the horizon with a thunderous exhaust note that makes the Ford GT tested last week sound like a Scalextric car, the massive tyres (245/40ZR on the 18x8·5in front rims, 285/35ZR on the 19x10in rears) offer prodigious roadholding.

However, this is not a boring machine of the type described by James May, because there is ultimately more power than grip. And, happily, the anti-lock brakes and switchable traction control and active handling systems have been designed with the sporting driver in mind.

Bob Lutz likened such active safety measures to a rectangle superimposed on a vehicle: "Mercedes-Benz and BMW draw it well within the parameters of the car. Ours is within a couple of millimetres of its capabilities, so the driver can really enjoy it, as long as he's safe."

What this means in practice is that the systems intervene later and more discreetly than many high-performance cars, braking individual wheels or reducing torque only when excessive wheelspin is detected; the definition of excessive is generous, so you can unstick the tyres in a standing start or a tight turn without feeling that your enthusiasm is being curbed. In that sense, it is reminiscent of Ferrari's adjustable system.

The completely revised suspension, still based on a high-tech composite transverse leaf spring at the rear, may be adjusted via the optional (£1,800) Magnetic Selective Ride Control, first seen on last year's 50th Anniversary Corvette and claimed to be the world's fastest-reacting system.

It reads the road surface and adjusts itself accordingly by means of dampers that employ magneto-rheological fluid rather than mechanical valves; the driver is also given a choice of Tour and Sport settings.

A stiffer, track-orientated set up is offered with the Z51 Performance Package, which also includes racier gear ratios, coolers for transmission and power steering and bigger, cross-drilled brake discs (13·4in front/13in rear, as opposed to the standard 12·8in/12in items, which are the same diameter as those on the C5 but two pounds heavier at the front for greater durability and reduced heat and fade).

All in all, then, the new Corvette is a pretty sophisticated mix, but the proof of the pudding is in the mile-eating. Setting out from the Dusseldorf dealership, it immediately felt at home, easy to drive and surprisingly wieldy in heavy traffic, giving the impression of being bigger on the inside than on the outside.

The ride quality (with Magnetic Selective Ride switched on) was supple over most surfaces and although its underlying firmness was revealed by the way the car would crash into unexpected potholes with a bang, there was surprisingly little shock transmitted to the cabin.

Heading out of the city on to the autobahn, the flexibility offered by all that torque was delightfully relaxing - at a very laid-back 2,000rpm in top gear you're travelling at almost 90mph - but the temptation to floor the throttle was ever present.

Stuck in the heavily populated area between Dusseldorf and Cologne, the traffic density rarely allowed such freedom and despite massive acceleration my best attempt to hit maximum speed was cut short at a measly 130mph by a wandering hatchback. A

ll I can say is that the C6 felt supremely stable, comfortable and more than willing to reach 180-plus with nonchalant ease. Wind and tyre noise were also remarkably subdued.

Peeling off on to lesser roads in search of corners was scarcely less frustrating; this part of Germany is not ideal driving country. Nevertheless, the Corvette proved itself to be an effective B-road tool, gobbling up the short straights between pretty villages and displaying a very satisfying agility on the few twisty bits.

The steering is meaty, accurate and quick, and with such enormous reserves of grip at both ends it was necessary to really chuck the car into roundabouts and tight, traffic-calming chicanes to go beyond neutral handling for a taste of electronically limited oversteer.

On these smooth surfaces, the ride was predictably excellent, so I look forward to trying it on a typically bumpy British lane; I suspect it would be less of a white-knuckle ride than a Porsche 911 GT3, for example, even though its performance is very similar.

One of the most attractive aspects of the Corvette is that this performance is delivered in such deceptively lazy fashion. It can cover great distances in relaxing style and having so much torque means that gear changing is rarely necessary; despite a shortened travel, the six-speed shift is not lightning quick, particularly between fourth and fifth, but it is fingertip light.

The brakes are very strong indeed, and offer good feel. Perhaps most noticeable of all is the feedback offered by the chassis; it was possible to sense the road surface through the front and the rear wheels, a degree of communication that is sadly lacking in the Ford GT.

But will it be well received in Britain? Bob Lutz conceded that engineering a right-hand drive conversion would be "tough" - although it is being investigated - but in any case left-hand drive is less of a disadvantage than is often supposed, especially on congested roads, and wise road positioning (holding back for nearside views, for example) combined with effortless performance can overcome most overtaking problems. You get used to it, and on the open road it hardly matters.

In fact, it has some advantages: it is easy to park close to the kerb and you can simply open the door and step out on to the pavement rather than taking your chances with passing traffic.

The Corvette is also a good deal more practical than many of its rivals, certainly more reliable than some and, with an urban fuel consumption estimated at 23mpg, slightly less thirsty despite all that cubic capacity (for which there really is no substitute; if you are concerned about fuel economy, you shouldn't be looking at a supercar anyway).

Its one outstanding advantage, however, is price. This will be confirmed in September, but is expected to be about two per cent higher than the outgoing C5; based on current German prices, that means about £41,500 for the coupé automatic, rising to about £46,500 for the convertible manual; the car tested here would be £44,500.

With its competition in terms of performance (Aston Martin DB9, Ferrari 360 Modena and Porsche 911) costing more than twice as much and only a couple of TVRs available for less - as they should be, given their relative lack of refinement - the Corvette therefore represents an awful lot of car for the money. I'd certainly think twice about paying another 40 grand for right-hand drive.

Along with the September price announcement, GM is expected to unveil its plans for Cadillac and Corvette sale and distribution centres in the UK. If there's any common sense in the world of high performance cars, they should be busy places. The queue starts here.

http://motoring.telegraph.co.uk/moto...equestid=20487

ciloh@euqroT

http://www.sleepy-fish.com/sleepy/To...orvette_lo.wmv

for those of you who don't know the show, they kindda bash the shit out of american cars, so keep that in mind!

Zapata

Has anybody ever watched reviews on that show?? They rip pretty much EVERY car. It's not one big circle jerk around cars and people here are acting like it's blatant anti-american agenda. People talk alot of crap on here about certain groups in this country being overly senstive and then when, god forbid, somebody gives an honest review with some old fashion ribbing people want to circle the wagons and act like we're under attack Where is all that tough guy stop whining and complaing talk now?? Go back and listen to the review of the new Merc Mclaren SLR, M3 CSL, Honda NSX etc., Criticism is criticism for a reason. Perhaps this country has become too soft......................

cusdaddy

SpeedyV6

Anti-american "agenda"? No it's not an agenda. They do have an anti-American bias though.

Nonetheless they manage to convey their automotive enthusiasm way better than the pinheads on MotorWeek or for that matter just about anyone else on the Spike Channel. I'm surprised the show isn't carried on SpeedTV, Spike, or even BBC America.

Zapata

sure bias is present every where Most shows here in the states are fluff to sell productes more so than a true evaluation. Motorwooks is ok....but their criticism is so mild and tame it's takes away from their credibility. I'd rather have the topgear version than the fluff. Most cars reviewed on that show are AWESOME. It'd be pretty easy to just drool and say the car rocks but it's much more difficult to really point out deficiences in bonafide supercars, exotics, and the working mans sport coupes/sedans. I think they do a pretty good job.

zeroday

Gavriil is merge happy

gavriil

Zapata, give me a break! It's one thing to say I dont like how the car feels a certain way and it's another to FREAKING LOSE TO THE NSX in a drag race! A C5 will take the NSX. When we all know that the NSX is SLOWER than this car no matter who's driving.

It's one thing to say I dont like the shifter and another to say it's hard to shift when everyone is praising it from that aspect.

Same poing for the ride characteristics.

This is not about bashing all cars, let's bash the Vette. That's true and direct attack against the car to satisfy someone's agenda.

Quote from the clip: "It's time for some shock and awe with George W. Stig"

gavriil

I merge when needed. Got a problem?

gavriil

I agree with you on that one. We need the Bill OReily version of auto testing.

zeroday

I was kidding but now that you mention it, and in such a nice way as well, car talk barely gets traffic as it is, and when there's a hot post like this one that brings in some peeps you drag it over to your sand box into another franken-thread...not a fan of you doing that but whatever.

gavriil

What pisses me off the most about Euro reporters testing USAmerican cars is the fact that they try to analyze the car without understanding the USA automotive reality. They understand the Euro reality but as we all know that's very different than what's happening here. I have lived in both continents and I am qualified to criticize them. Here is what I mean. Let's rewind the clip .

"Italy has Ferrari, Britain has Aston Martin"

Sorry. Britain does not have Aston Martin. Ford has Aston which means USAmerica has it. What is the matter with these people? Will they ever accept the fact that they dont own Jag and Aston?

"and America has the Corvette"

No. America has the Ford GT, the Viper, the DB9, the Vanquish, the XJR and XKR, the Corvette Z06 and the Corvette! And A LOT MORE soon!

"In the pantheon of American Sports Cars, this is their greatest offering"

See above. Plus the Vette is no sports car. It's a GT. The C5 was 100% a GT, this new car, the C6 is a GT that wants to pretend it's a little bit of a sports car as well.

"It's been around for 51 years and in America they dont have stuff that old in museums"

I see his point, but am sure that at the same time he is satisfying that...agenda some of us are talking about. Europeans LOVE making fun of this country's "lack of history", as they say. To me? Disrespectful. No USAmerican auto journalist would ever say anything like that. Not the end of the world, but it's a sign of what's to come and how THESE people think.

"...this has always been purpose-built as a sports car"

Again, this AINT trying to be a sports car. The S2000 is a sports car, the Elise and the Miata are also sports cars. They will never get it.

"This then is America's Porsche 911"

See? That's how they want to see this car. A direct competitor to the 911. You know why? Two reasons:

1. Because the 911 is so iconic in Europe, no matter how good a Vette is, it WILL NEVER trully beat it. No one will admit it ever.

2. The 911 is A LOT LESS than a GT than a Vette is. So it's easier to bash a VEtte when you judge it from a sports car's prizm and not a GT's car one. See the positioning. The Vette has already LOST THIS "battle". It's framed for a negative review. In the meantime the unsuspecting average Euro Top Gear reader who knows nothing about USAmerican auto reality and what a Vette really represents, is reading and thinking "ok...go on then..."

"But here in Europe we already have a Porsche 911. It's called the Porsche 911. So we never been too interested in the Vette"

This is basically saying what I interpreted above. We dont need another 911 and we dont need anyone pretending to be a 911. We have it and we love it. And we wont let no USAmerican who makes boats that cant steer and engines that consume Iraqi oilfields for lunch, to even compete with the Porsche 911.

By the way, the common belief with most Euro car enthusiasts is: the smaller the engine's displacement, the less gas it consumes. It's an old rule of thump which will never go away.

"But that's not gonna put off the Americans from trying to sell it to us"

Translation: The market concuring Americans are marching in to try to sell you a pseudo 911. Dont let them. This thing is crap as we will find out later.

See the positioning with the 911 for the above reasons? It's continuing throughout the clip.

Lucky us they mention the 20,000 pound difference in the price. But notice they use the words "more modest". Like it's a 20000 pound difference in a 3 million pound price. I mean give me a break. It's 20K at a 40K price smartass. That's half the price of the Vette! You get 1.5 Vettes for ONE 911. Why dont you say it that way? Rather..."more modest"

Then they talk about the engine specs. I LOVE, really, the metaphor about the the enormous torque and what it will do to "those trees". One reason I love Top Gear's journalists. They make some really good jokes.

But notice, they conveniently AVOID talking about gas consumption. Cos they know about the false belief of gas consumption and its relation to engine displacement mentioned above. So now the average Euro reader/listener thinks: "6 liters? Man that thing will cost a ton at the pump! USAmerican crap once again! They cant make power with 3-4 liters, they have to use displacement to produce power"

Yeah...

"Now for the price this might seem like a bargain but sadly there is quite a lot of bargain basement about this car"

OK let's start the direct attack now.

"These plastics, where are they getting them from?"

In the meantime no mention about the SUPER QUALITATIVE PORSCHE INTERIORS! What happened to the 911 comparo Top Gear? What a bunch of hypocrits! How sad...

"...it's the same with every American car we drive. These are the people that can land on Mars"

That's right, you will never get it. Ever. That's exactly the same reason why your English Royal Aerospace losers will not land on Mars during this century and possibly further and will never beat the USAmericans with "the plastics" in any race like that. You will never get it.

"And there's more misery to come when you're driving it"

I mean now you're talking like an bitter loser asshole who plain old hates USAmerican cars, possibly because you hate plain old USAmerican foreign policy strategy. But I may be wrong on that. I said maybe.

More misery? So this car is miserable? Oh yes, Aston is British and great right? And so is Jag. What a bunch of losers...

"The clutch is making my left leg hurt"

Now I have not driven this, but I seriously have a very hard time believing this. I mean NO ONE...not ONE journalist complained about the clutch in the C6. But of course, they could all have BodyBuilder legs and squat 500 pounds on the overload set and you are just another nomal guy. Hence, you might be right. I will let you know about that when I drive the car, hopefully soon.

"and the gearchange has been taken straight out of a Victorian signal box"

I already have talked about that. EVERYONE esle is praising this shifter and this guy sits there saying this. And he makes sure he makes his point when he later uses some theatrics to...illustrate. Just in case the average Euro auto reader does not understand the above metaphor. OK. Fine.

"and then there is the chassis technology. The Corvette's rear suspension uses leafsprings" Doctor's and Leeches example and we get the point.

Translation: They cant, for the life of them, understand how the...Americans were able to make leaf spring technology move as it does on the track and the only way to criticize it, is by rediculing it due to its old roots when pioneered. OK.

"...there is still the ride" and we see the example of small stone on the road and more theatrics about what that felt like when he went over it.

Now granted I dont expect the Z51 car to be riding like the GTO and even if this car with Top Gear was the Z51 drive, WHY DONT I SEE MENTIONING OF THE 3 DIFFERENT SUSPENSIONS offered (assuming they are in Europe, though I know the Magna ride is offered) and WHY DONT I HEAR MENTIONING OF THE MAGNA Technology and how it works and why did not test a Magna equipped car? Even THEY would have appreciated the ride characteristics of that suspension?

Oh yes...it could be that agenda thing some of us refer to. But then again, we might be wrong and biased.

"Oh dear! Is this the pinnacle of American sports car icons? A plastic wedge with a horrible interior clunking transmission and suspension tech lifted from the old Testament?"

First, no this is not the pinnacle of American Sports cars. Currently the GT and the Viper are. And we all know you loved both. So why would you ask such a question with this review? Did anyone say that this is America's PINNACLE of sports cars? Oh yes. Because it makes the car look really bad. OK I see. It must be that...agenda again. Or not.

"Let's see if the Corvette can redeem itself with good old fashioned grunt"

Now even this statement I dont get. Why is grunt "good old fashioned"? Do you see how he indirectly criticizes the car? He's elluding to the high displacement, old tech argument again. Like saying, that's all USAmerican cars have: Torque. Nothing else. OK.

"Now this has always been the party piece of the American sports car. So can this one follow in the tradition of its government and get up on the country's noses?"

How can one make a parallel and a simily of torque/grunt and government policy, only this guy knows. Agenda? Nah!

Other than that, the US gov't gets up your noses every chance it gets. Take it from a British bloke! The ones that kept Aston and Jag...British!

Losers!

"What we've got here is the United Nations dragrace"

Now why would anyone go and make a drag race an enthin matter and politicize things? Agenda? Nah....

For the record, I have never heard or read such remarks from USAmerican journalists.

Good thing Britain is represented by TVR. But wait. Isnt that one sold to a Russion 21 year old the other day?

"all with roughly the same power"

Sure. The 290 NSX ponnies are roughly the same with the 400 from the C6. OK. Whatever you say.

So the drag race starts and the NSX flies so far ahead in the fist 60 feet, it looks like this NSX is equipped with AWD. How can that be?

Then when I see the TVR and NSX on the left move, it's like the Vette is on the brakes. I must be dreaming again.

"oh this looks poor. A lonely third for the Corvette"

The NSX should have been at least 5 cars back in a proper drag race but what do we know? And it cant be that agenda you know...

Notice not mentioning of the (apparently not so lonely and not pathetic at all) iconic 911. Nah.... drag racing does not matter for the 911, what does it have to do with proper sports cars? Sports-car-ness is measured differnetly in Europe. Whenever it is to our interest to bring it in, we will and the opposite.

Pathetic losers!

"So is this American good at anything"

I mean since we established that it cant ride, it cant drag race and it cant handle, oh and even on paper it sucks due to low tech, is it good at anything?

Oh yes, the HUD! Of course. A $40 thousand pound HUD. That's what you buy when you buy this car. What a bunch of losers!

Oh yes the G-Meter too.

"Now why would an American car need a g-meter?"

See the hint about USAmerican cars and their lack of handling character as a rule of thump? It's like it's written in stone for the Europeans. Unbiased, fair and balanced reporting ladies and gents by Top Gear.

And suddenly he discovers that this car CAN handle. I guess this thing handles so well, even Top Gear COULD NOT DENY IT! Even that unfounded agenda was not enough to take that away from this Vette.

"It feels small, it feels nimble, it's steerable, it turns in quickly...look this is a corner, we're going around a bend, they dont have these in America...how do they know to do this?"

Let me explain. See another rule of thump in Europe is that THERE IS NO PLACE IN THE WHOLE USA THAT THERE ARE ANY CORNERS ON ANY ROAD OR HIGHWAY. Hence the reason of why their cars are not built for handling and cornering. This also makes the average USAmerican driver inept as a driver when compared to the average Euro driver.

Hence his surprise and disbelief of Americans been able to build a car that...can handle and take corners properly.

"and when you really hammer it, it starts to sound like a proper muslce car"

I have not heard of the LS2, but I have of the LS1 both on a Vette as well as on a GTO. And I can attest without a doubt that the LS1 sounds like a proper sports car engine from IDLE! What is the matter with these people? There is a point in your bias where even you know you're full of shit!

"You know this seems to happen every time we test a car from the colonies. It was the same way when Jeremy drove that Australian Honda"

Oh so Australia and the USA are British colonies. Oh OK. Now I got it! Go on then...

"they're a bit crude but really really big fun"

Wow, really?

And Clarkson shows the plasticky rear bumper and how with one finger he can push it in. Wow! I can do that with a 100 gazillion dollar SL you smarass. It's called plastic bumpers used in about 100% of the cars today! How biased can one be? Is there no limit?

The lap takes place and I have not seen so much oversteer by an "ex professional driver" ever! I mean I think I can drive this car as good after a day's practice and I know nothing about driving. Still a 1.26.8

Also, how is it possible to lock the front wheels in any Vette? Do they not have ABS?

Also, notice how smothly the gear changes take place when the track lap is taking place. Ah yes, this admittedly old driver, must have been a body builder and still be one.

This was one pathetic example of unbiased and truly knowledgable automotive journalism. These guys either have an agenda, which they do with the political remarks, or hate USAmerican cars because of this or another agenda, which they do from the multiple puns, hints and direct statements, or both. I tend to lean toward the latter.

gavriil

First I was kidding, you failed to see the smiley next to my statement. Second, when did you start caring so much about traffic on Car Talk? Third, got any ideas to help increase traffic? If yes, share them with me and Soopa,we're all ears. Fourth, the reason I moved it here was because this is NEWS about he C6, not just another video of an...old car. Fifth, would you feel better if I unlocked the thread about the C6 in Car Talk because you are mistaken by saying that I merged it. I copied it, moved it to the Auto News section, locked the initial thread and then merged the copied thread with this. Tell me what will make you feel better... I dont like seeing dissatisfied, veteran readers write stuff like that.

PS: What is a franken-thread ?

zeroday

Sorry i'm grumpy tonight...dealing with mortgage approval hassles.

Since second gen got split out from car talk, it just doesn't see much traffic anymore. basically there's not much of a place here for the non cl'ers to discuss their cars/other cars not cl and get alot of feedback/input from the CL folks (who are the vast majority here). It's not dead per say, but it's nothing like before. I have heard this complaint from more than a few other ex-cl owner/members.

I already suggested merging auto news with car talk to Soopa, but it never happened even though he said he'd consider it. That was my only idea other than merging second gen back with car talk.

It could go either way i guess...there's a blurry line between alot of the topics in car talk and whats in here. I guess I preferred the thread topic of top gear's vid to stay by itself so it doesnt get mixed in with other random news about the c6. Plus it brought some people in and got them talking about non-news and non Cl stuff....like top gear being biased a-holes.

Merged/closed/copied eh it's no big deal. Just leave it. The larger issue is i'd like to get more traffic in car talk so there are more non-cl discussions that non cl'ers can participate in. Wish I had better suggestions for making that happen other than what i posted already.

btw...a franken-thread is a term i use to describe a hodge-podge of different threads combined to make one because of ostensible similarities...but when combined the threads don't seem to be congruous in regard to content. Kinda like frankenstein...get it?

gavriil

Zero, me and Soopa discussed the merging of Auto News and Car Talk, but we decided it would not be good from an organization perspective. News and Talk is two very separeate things that deserve separate sections.

I dont see threads here as franken threads. The definition is simple:

1. If a post is news or comments about news then it belongs to the Auto News section of this forum

2. and if it is about a specific vehicle then it goes to that vehicle thread as every model has its own thread excluding special vehicles like M, AMG, V, S, etc.

That way, the Auto News section of the forum is kept clean and all of the info about a particular model is under ONE thread.

chungkopi

Gav, you da man!!!!!

SiGGy

lol, nice write-up gav. You hit on everything that pinched a nerve with me!

So, why can't we find some rich guys with time on their hands to debunk "top gear"? just need the cars, a track, video camera and some gas.

Why hasn't anyone in the US started a show like "top gear"?

If you ask me... TVR was probably part of their agenda... Especially since it seems to be in turmoil.

I'd be game to pitch the idea to the the discovery channel they have a bunch of automotive shows. One that compares cars doesn't exist, and would probably be well taken. LOL, I'd want to test at the Laguna Seca though

Or is there some show I don't know about? "Top gear" always seems to get the attention....

zeroday

hmmm. well i don't think its so cut and dry but im not a mod so im kind of pissing n the wind here. i wont hijack this thread anymore but I and others feel the current layout of the site is a problem. hopefully you guys will figure out a way to improve it.

btw dont take this as a criticism of the work you do in the A.N. forum. I and others really appreciate it.

1SICKLEX

Damn Gav, great post!

zeroday

wow i just took the time to read your big azz post Gav...right on target!! I would at a minimum, email those pompous a-holes what you wrote. good shit.

srika

that is such BS about the clutch being heavy... there are many exotic cars with heavy clutches such as the Diablo, etc. - I think what's really going on here is that that guy is a wuss !!

Zapata

what blatantly biased, spread misinformation and mislead? no thanks......

gavriil

srika

btw I am thinking they won't test drive the new Z06 when it comes out... if they do, they'll talk about all the "bad" things. Stig seems to drive pretty unbiased though, I mean, he seems to just go balls out with every car, given the conditions... so maybe he will be the saving grace.

gavriil

I am glad you agree Dave but, what do you mean by "Why hasn't anyone in the US started a show like "top gear"?"

gavriil

Zero, I would very much like to hear why the layout is a problem and how it could be improved. PM me please.

gavriil

Thanks.

gavriil

THanks. I was thinking about emailing them. I have emailed them about their statement that the GT is the only USAmerican car that can handle and mentioned the Z06. No reply of course.

Zapata

Wow lol, go watch the reviews of other cars. They are just as hard on other cars. There is some social commentary sprinkled in but whatever Why so sensitive???? Who gives a fuck?

gavriil

A...liberal I assume?

cusdaddy

Visit the R&P forum for more detail

Maximized

Top Gear is a TV show, take it at that. The C6 will smoke a NSX in a drag race and should be right door to door with a C5 Z06. Simply put, they dont know how to properly drive the C6 and are biased. Car mags, tv shows, etc are all based on opinion. A lot of people don't like to admit that some american cars are better performing than more expensive european models. I am sure Dave Hill and Bob Lutz wouldnt let the C6 be a dissappointment to GM and the Corvette name.

Maximized

I dont know if this was posted, but i came across this:

Some very interesting info about the test was posted on another website.

We had warned them not to give the car to BBC Top Gear first because they'd wreck it, and sure enough, as a result of their antics (see tomorrow night's programme) the car went back to the workshop in Dusseldorf with a stripped clutch, four bald tyres and damaged bodywork. I was impatient to get behind the wheel at last, but I was also prepared to be disappointed.

They did a drag race betwen the C6, NSX, 911 Carrera 2 and TVR 350C. Now, on face value, the 350C walked it with the NSX beating the C6 to the tape (911 was nowhere) but watching it back a few times, there are shots of the C6 neck and neck with the TVR included momentarily, with no signs of the NSX, and shots of the C6 and NSX crossing the line together, the NSX having also jumped the start by a good 0.5 secs ('vette took off last) which means to say that they've edited the whole thing together to suit themselves.

Some people on Pistonheads forum were there and apparently the drag race was filmed numerous times, and also with a C6 that the crew had already ruined the clutch, damaged the bodywork and stripped the tyres of tread Eek

It still put in an excellent lap time on their track, beating the 350C, the new Exige, the 911 GT3 and only narrowly missing out on the Evo FQ330 and Gallardos times. They even had to admit that the chassis was excellent.

mattg

those bloody wankers must have fish-n-chips on the brain.

cusdaddy

I posted the whole article from the Telegraph where that top quote came from in the previous page.

I also noticed the same thing with the race. It looked like a number of clips added together. At once point the C6 and NSX looked to finish right next to eachother, and then it showed the C6 finishing on it's own. Very very shady.

The C6 has the best 1/4 times out of all 4 cars posted in that drag race. The closest is a TVR, but that model runs high 12's to low 13's at best, while the C6 has consistently tested better in the US car mags.

heyitsme

Sounds like they accomplished their goal, get people stirred up, people are buzzing about top gear whether they like or not, its entertainment. Assuming they had one camera, they would have to shoot the race multiple times just to get the angles. As far as the drag race, thats whats going to happen from any review when you have different drivers all going at once, they can't all have the same skill level whether the vette has the power or not. The stig proved it had what it takes with a professional driver.