Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Good looking interior! I like the rear spoiler too-I like the entire car, but those 2 things caught my eye.

fsttyms1

pttl

i see red X's.

charliemike

Autoblog Reviews the ZL1

The performance is outstanding, without a doubt. The car looks the part too. I've driven a Camaro RS and it's not a bad car.

I'm really looking forward to the obligatory ZL1 vs GT500 test once the 2013 Ford comes out.

I can't see how the Challenger SRT 392l keeps up with either of these cars. Other than being about $8-10k cheaper of course.

srika

slower than I thought it would be... 12.0 @ 114 is what Supras with $500 in mods were running in 1998... anyways.

charliemike

I think that had they had a decent driver, decent conditions, and weren't testing on a shit track (which is essentially what they were hinting at) that they could get into the high 11s.

That said, GM may not have put the best tires on that car.

srika

I hear you. but generally the trap speed is telling of the acceleration performance, even on standard sport tires. We will have to see the rest of the tests coming out.

ttribe

Am I the only one who thinks that car looks like it has WAY too much plastic on it? I'm there are plenty of cars with more actual exterior plastic, but the car just LOOKS like it has a ton to me for some reason.

srika

agreed, I think it looks very "thick".

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

What is up with the ebrake handle position. Is it on viagra or something.

ttribe

dom

Not a GT500 but...

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...a/viewall.html

charliemike

Interesting ... I can't help but wonder what the $20k price differential did to the perception of the car though. That's a lot of "technology" that the Mustang doesn't have.

srika

it ran 117 in the quarter in that test. nice. I'd guess with a drag setup it'll be near 120. ok now we are talking.

srika

wow I just noticed the ZL1 weighs 4051 lbs...

Supra was 3400 for comparison.. .and funny thing people used to think it was fat back in the day.

pttl

The tech that GM packs into the suspension tuning alone, taken from their CTS-V, makes the solid rear axle of the Mustang handle like it came from the stone age.

Don't tell that to any Mustang fanboys though.

majin ssj eric

Good lord that interior is still atrocious especially for a $50k car! It's the one reason why I can't consider a Camaro for myself. Everything else is awesomeness!

Hapa DC5

I thought that live axle from the 'Stang actually is pretty good on the straights and turns. Hmmm I definitely want to see this go against the GT500

pttl

Its actually really good considering how low tech it is. Its probably preferred at the drag strip, but on a track or the twisty roads, I'm not sure it's in the same league as the GM magnetically controlled suspension.

charliemike

What I cannot understand, in light of the pricing of the Camaro line is why Ford insists that it cannot compete with a Mustang with IRS on price.

Does Ford have higher labor costs? Is it just easier for them not to spend the money on R&D because the live axle is a known quantity?

ttribe

The development costs are long since amortized. It's super cheap.

Costco

It's just another excuse on Ford's part to cater to the Mustang crowd that still wants a live axle so they can launch better at the strip.

pttl

The live rear axel is coming to an end in the next gen Mustang from what I understand. Hope they improve the manual tranny and interior materials...like the seats too.

so cal eddie

Someone else probably posted it already, but how does chevy expect to sell these things at the same price as a corvette? Even a base corvette weighs about 800 -1000 lbs less, is probably faster, better mileage, sexier??, etc. I don't understand, so I'll get back to studying.

Sarlacc

Different people, different markets, different interests. its quite simple really.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

chirik

Too overweight and makes NO sense whatsoever.

pttl

^
Camaro is the best selling muscle car in America. So, it makes sense to some people.

chirik

Feel and driving experience > Numbers. I drive cars, not spec sheets, sales numbers, etc.

BTW, 66% sales in 2011 belong to V6 (NOT a muscle car ). Only 34% belong to V8. And we are talking about the ZL1 with maybe (my prediction) 5% sales at best.

True story. While one cannot compare with my Vette at least in weight department, I remember standing at the light with my bone stock LS2 C6 and some guy pulled next to me in new (paper plates) SS. Revved his engine and before I say something he floors the damn thing with engine screaming but barely moves. 80 degrees and dry outside. I look at my mirror and I can see a small dot of what reminds me a V8 Camaro SS. He was to find out I was bone stock at the next light. Both cars were automatic.

Back to ZL1. While it has the power and suspension it only runs low 12 sec.

Hapa DC5

^ okay Mr. Happy.

The volume sellers of MOST cars are the base engines. 4 cyl. Accord, Camry, etc. V6 Mustang, Camaro, Challenger. 6 cyl. E-Class, 5er, ya dig?

Sorry it will never measure up to your holier than thou C6. Are you a cougar hunting Doctor by any chance?

Hapa DC5

Oh yeah the reason manufacturers offer these base engines is so they can absorb the cost of producing the high output ones.

If you're driving cars and not sales numbers why are you even quoting them? Isn't that a direct contradiction to your original point?

pttl

No one ever said that the Camaro was the fastest V8 muscle car out there. Everyone on the planet knows that the smaller, lighter, Mustangs are by far the better performers...both in V6 and V8 trim.

Nonetheless...as it was stated earlier in this thread....the Camaro is catering to a different crowd. You said it "made NO sense"...the car, according to sales numbers, which is why I brought it up, makes A LOT of sense to MUSCLE car buyers.

The ZL1 will compete against the GT500 anyway, not a Vette. The GT500 sales, btw, are a miniscule % of overall Mustang sales too.

Will the ZL1 get smoked by the 2013 GT500? Probably....but it will still appeal to a certain type of buyer. Not a Vette buyer.

fsttyms1

And whats your point? Base models always sell more. by your logic and your all mighty corvette, the ZR1 should be selling as much as your base auto vette
read the article. It did that on a dusty track.

Sarlacc

I guess is discounting the fact he is driving a base model corvette...and an automatic one at that

what was that he said about driving experience...

chirik

Nice try geniuses. You both clearly lack reading comprehension. Instead of responding to you both individually I will type once since your posts somewhat similar

First, let me repeat my point once again since you clearly don’t understand. It’s quite simple, trust me. Here it comes, ready? ZL1 is TOO HEAVY. That’s it. Get it? That’s right – that is MY POINT

This is what I originally said about the ZL1 - "Too overweight and makes NO sense whatsoever"

pttl response was "Camaro is the best selling muscle car in America. So, it makes sense to some people".

The key in my response to pttl was “muscle car” when I returned and included sale numbers showing only base model (V6) selling well. Since when V6 is considered a “muscle car”? I don’t care about the V6. I don’t even care about the V8 sloppy handling and performance-numbing obesity models. I do care about ZL1. And, the reason I brought my Vette into the mix is to show the point how weight of V8 Camaro SS impact the performance. I specifically stated while it is not a direct comparison I would still illustrate the difference.

And ZL1 even heavier. Obvioulsy it’s engine power has been significantly improved but most important handling/downforce and overall driving feel. Except, it’s still TOO HEAVY. That’s is my point again. And when direct competition – 650hp (underrated) GT500 pulls along it will smoke ZL1 (considering both good drivers) due to weight difference and extra power. Of course ZL1 can be quite easily retuned by bumping up the boost and improve the factory tune, but that is the different question. Had Chevy reduced the length and width by 2-3 inches, drop the weight to 3700lbs, it would definitely have a winner.

Oh, and fsttyms1. I saw it. With different track condition/temps and different drivers ZL1 clocked from low-mid 12sec. Check those articles up not just one. IT IS SLOW in my book. I don’t know maybe I’m spoiled with my H/C (heads/cam) Corvette.

chirik

Very intelligent post

chirik

Said the one who drives Prius and another heavy, slow and oversized boat named Challenger R/T.
Yes I drive cars rather than rely on sales statistics. I drove 2010 Camaro SS which smokes your R/T and it’s horrible in every department (poor handling/heavy/slow). In fact, I also drove manual and it’s worse as the wheel hop even more pronounced. Only aftermarket investment in suspension can bring the handling to a decent level since factory V8 top of the line model 2SS was crap.

To answer your question, my goal was to match the power and handling of C6 Z06 while enjoying the convenience of automatic transmission. Guess what? I improved further my goal. My “base” Corvette runs 10 seconds in ¼ mile while shifting paddles on the steering wheel. I bet your R/T boat with three pedals at best runs high-13s

I prefer it over a manual for a daily driving and heavy Chicago bumper-to-bumper traffic. Even if it was a weekend only car I still doubt. At the time of purchase I couldn’t afford Z06, and 6-speed manual was out of the question due to daily driving goal and 40 mile one way commute.

Are you aware that automatics are faster on drag strip and my high-stall torque converter helps me to be extremely fast on the street if I want it to? 99% cars coming from factory with over 500hp are automatic. So by your logic those who will drive forced induction F-series M5/M6, all E/CLS/CL/SL 63 or 65 AMG models, 911 Turbo, Nissan GT-R (possible my next car), etc are full of sh!t in your book? You are in minority then.

Carry on.

chirik

I mentioned WEIGHT and therefore the performance impact. That’s it. “No sense” again was towards the weight not the sales figures. I don’t care about the base and v8 models sales. My response was towards the ZL1 by being still too big and too heavy. You have brought up the sales figures and I corrected you by saying only V6 base models are responsible for high sale numbers. We are talking about the “muscle car” which only V8 cars are and in this case the subject of our discussion – ZL1.

I know that GT500 is a direct competition and it will embarrass the ZL1 even if HP numbers were the same. That’s the whole point – WEIGHT impact the performance. That is the reason I brought my Vette into the mix just to illustrate how weight decrease the performance when I ran the V8 SS model. I’m sure the difference would be even worse for ZL1 if one pulls next to me now since I’m modified. And despite the fact it will not be a correct comparison due to weight difference, it will be on horsepower/torque levels.

I’m not trying to brag about my Vette. I know I can. It is just a tool I use to compare to other performance vehicles.

I like ZL1 due to engine power, much better handling and steering characteristics thanks to revamped suspension including the Magnetic ride (similar to CTS-V) , TrueTrac LSD and excellent high-speed stability with downforce. There are three functional components - hood extractor, front splitter and rear spoiler.
I don’t like – WEIGHT.

As far as buyers that can be questionable. While majority who shop “base” Corvettes won’t look into ZL1, some might cross-shop by seeing the similar price and better engine performance specs . That point I believe I also have read in “Automobile” magazine.

Personally, I wouldn’t unless Chevy brings it down to 3700lbs weight and I still need automatic transmission. Cut 2-3 inches in length and width, make some weight reduction and you’ll have a winner.
Anyway, I came here just to stay my opinion on heavy weight. I already mentioned this million times. That’s my point regardless.

Sarlacc

Sounds like someone has to satisfy and justify his ego by "edumacating" all us lowly non-vette drivers.

Its fantastic you would never buy it and think it over-weight. I'm sure you're not the only one. But there are a lot of people who don't care and will buy it. It IS a fast car by comparison to the majority of whats on the road, and it will have a following. Not everyone purchases a car based on what it runs on the dragstrip and traps.

Muscle cars by and large were always heavy. And there is market for people, such as myself, who love and will own muscle cars. If we wanted a sports car then thats what we would have purchased.

Its great you can't cram that simple notion into your head. Perhaps you should move on then.

chirik

You are getting close, finally. Except we no longer live in 60s and 70s where big engine was enough to qualify as a "muscle" car. Today "muscle" car enthusiasts demand handling and perfomance too. ZL1 has been significantly improved over regular SS (hence, the price) except weight. For the million time - weight impact performance whether you like it or not. It's simple physics.

I'm done here