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Old 12-07-2005, 01:39 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
While I like the throw-back designs....like the Mustang, Charger, and the Camaro renderings.....but when are the big three going to come out with new original designs for these cars....instead of designing around past designs????



Like the looks of it but feel like everyone is stuck on the same path. How about something new and different. Ah well, is just a phase that will pass soon enough
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Old 12-07-2005, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyV6
By 2009 these designs will have been inspired by a 40 year old design. Is it that hard to come up with a fresh new attractive design?
for american car companies,


i think it looks nice, until it mass produced and on every corner like the rustang then
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Old 12-07-2005, 02:09 PM
  #83  
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Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the muscle car fad is being revived when gas prices are at all time highs? Seems kind of curious, if you ask me.
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Old 12-07-2005, 02:15 PM
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meh, gas is already back down to what it was a year ago, people who have money to buy sportier cars (coupes especially) don't seem to care as much about gas prices as someone buying a conservative smaller sedan
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Old 12-07-2005, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyV6
By 2009 these designs will have been inspired by a 40 year old design. Is it that hard to come up with a fresh new attractive design?

How many under $25k cars actually have hot designs to begin with? If Chevy can come to market with something as sharp as this I can't say I'll be complaining.
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 03typeS6spd
meh, gas is already back down to what it was a year ago, people who have money to buy sportier cars (coupes especially) don't seem to care as much about gas prices as someone buying a conservative smaller sedan

Plus, I average 20.4 MPG doing mostly city driving with my 6.0L V8.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:14 AM
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Contrary to what everyone else is saying, I'd rather see these ''American Muscle'' cars get a dose of old blood in their designs over recent designs. Now let's see here, what do you think is a better-looking car: the '05 Mustang with cues from the 1966, or the '05 GTO, which looks like an upgraded Grand Am? I think Chevrolet is doing a very smart thing here by going retro with the look. Since the whole ''retro scene'' thing is in right now and people are running out buying and rebuilding models from the 1960s, might as well capitalize on it.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:40 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Ashburner
WTF? Why does everyone hate on the GTO? It's the most well built car I have ever owned. It puts my CL-S to shame. I won't even get into how much more comfortable it is and the 400 hp.

Don't knock it till you drive it cuz I'm sure you'd trade your shitty 97 black CL in a heartbeat.
I agree... why does the GTO catch so much flak? It's one of the only pontiacs that i would ever want to even own.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:46 PM
  #89  
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This will be a repost by me. I want a 4 door GTO from Australia damnit!!!
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Old 12-09-2005, 04:04 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by MattT516
Contrary to what everyone else is saying, I'd rather see these ''American Muscle'' cars get a dose of old blood in their designs over recent designs. Now let's see here, what do you think is a better-looking car: the '05 Mustang with cues from the 1966, or the '05 GTO, which looks like an upgraded Grand Am? I think Chevrolet is doing a very smart thing here by going retro with the look. Since the whole ''retro scene'' thing is in right now and people are running out buying and rebuilding models from the 1960s, might as well capitalize on it.
I love retro. There's no way I'd have a '68 Camaro SS as my daily driver because the cost of doing that is just way more than I want to spend. Not to mention nothing approaching modern safety technology.

I am all for retro.
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Old 12-09-2005, 04:36 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Ashburner
WTF? Why does everyone hate on the GTO? It's the most well built car I have ever owned. It puts my CL-S to shame. I won't even get into how much more comfortable it is and the 400 hp.

Don't knock it till you drive it cuz I'm sure you'd trade your shitty 97 black CL in a heartbeat.
I'm not knocking your car but...

GTO is not built well, the interior is not comparable to a CL-S. Two of my friends had them, both of them got rid of the car in less than a year.

Why?

Paint problems
electrical problems
suspension problems
leaks
squeaks

They basically were giving the GTO away. Neighter of my friends paid more than $20k for one brand new.

Comparing a near luxury interior to a sport class is kinda crazy man. Both are nice but they can't be compared really.

I like the concept of the GTO, lots of power in a small chassis. But I can't get over the cavalier looks of the car.
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Old 12-09-2005, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
I'm not knocking your car but...

GTO is not built well, the interior is not comparable to a CL-S. Two of my friends had them, both of them got rid of the car in less than a year.

Why?

Paint problems
electrical problems
suspension problems
leaks
squeaks

They basically were giving the GTO away. Neighter of my friends paid more than $20k for one brand new.

Comparing a near luxury interior to a sport class is kinda crazy man. Both are nice but they can't be compared really.

I like the concept of the GTO, lots of power in a small chassis. But I can't get over the cavalier looks of the car.
The GTO interior is every bit as nice as a CL-S. My friend has had two GTO's and never had a problem with them. Every car has it's share of problems. We all know that Acuras have bullitproof auto transmissions
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Old 12-09-2005, 07:51 PM
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I was in the GTO at the auto show a couple years back, the leather seats and everthing were pretty nice, but the plastics were just average. I remember getting in the car all hyped that it was some luxury car inside ala 3-series from australia, but it wasn't imo even though its in that price range, more like a high end muscle car- surely a better interior than the previous gen cobra. I don't know as far as rattles, wear and tear, or compared to the cl.
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Doom878
This will be a repost by me. I want a 4 door GTO from Australia damnit!!!
I like the name better..

holden monaro.
http://www.seriouswheels.com/images/...Y-F-Sunset.jpg
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by swift22
I like the name better..

holden monaro.
http://www.seriouswheels.com/images/...Y-F-Sunset.jpg
Thats still the two door monaro...

Vs Pontiac GTO


4door would be the Commodore.

Last edited by heyitsme; 12-09-2005 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:26 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
The GTO interior is every bit as nice as a CL-S. My friend has had two GTO's and never had a problem with them. Every car has it's share of problems. We all know that Acuras have bullitproof auto transmissions
WTF does a transmission have to do with interior? Do you have ADD? Can you not win a argument without bringing in totally useless side commentary to skew the converations focus to a topic your not wrong about!?!?

We are discussing the vehicles interior... not transmission design. OK?

The plastics in the GTO are not equal...

Oh yes, I enjoyed the heated seats in the GTO
and the navigation in the GTO
not to mention the drivers seat memory positions from the 2 fobs
auto tip down reversing mirrors
auto electric sliding seat for passengers in the rear
heated sideview mirrors
...



To add Acura didn't discount the CL almost $10k just to sell them.

The GTO is nice inside, but it's not equal to the CL. As I was saying comparing it to a near luxury car is kinda rediculous.

common guys........... I'm not standing up for the CL. I'm just not *blindly* comparing it to the GTO.
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Old 12-11-2005, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
I'm not knocking your car but...

GTO is not built well, the interior is not comparable to a CL-S. Two of my friends had them, both of them got rid of the car in less than a year.

Why?

Paint problems
electrical problems
suspension problems
leaks
squeaks

They basically were giving the GTO away. Neighter of my friends paid more than $20k for one brand new.

Comparing a near luxury interior to a sport class is kinda crazy man. Both are nice but they can't be compared really.

I like the concept of the GTO, lots of power in a small chassis. But I can't get over the cavalier looks of the car.
I had lots of paint problems and squeaks on my old '01 Cl-S. Five years later you can buy a new 400 hp GTO for about as much as CL-S used to cost. It may lack a sunroof and HID headlights but it's got everything else and performs better than a CL-S with intake, headers, s/c, and a full coilover suspension ever could.

Have you looked at an '05 GTO or an '06? It's surprising what a difference few minor mods to the grille, hood scoops, and dual exhaust can make. Frankly I don't think a GTO looks that bad.
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Old 12-11-2005, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
WTF does a transmission have to do with interior? Do you have ADD? Can you not win a argument without bringing in totally useless side commentary to skew the converations focus to a topic your not wrong about!?!?

We are discussing the vehicles interior... not transmission design. OK?

The plastics in the GTO are not equal...

Oh yes, I enjoyed the heated seats in the GTO
and the navigation in the GTO
not to mention the drivers seat memory positions from the 2 fobs
auto tip down reversing mirrors
auto electric sliding seat for passengers in the rear
heated sideview mirrors
...



To add Acura didn't discount the CL almost $10k just to sell them.

The GTO is nice inside, but it's not equal to the CL. As I was saying comparing it to a near luxury car is kinda rediculous.

common guys........... I'm not standing up for the CL. I'm just not *blindly* comparing it to the GTO.
Do you lack any reading comprehension skills and simply deduction skills? I pointed out that the GTO interior was nice and was right there with the CL-S. Again, the CL-S doesn't have a fantastic interior that blows you away. Then I made a comment to YOUR generalized comments at reliablity. I simply pointed out that Acura has it share of problems. And If you were comparing interior design, why did you point out "Paint problems, electrical problems, and suspension problems?" Your arguement is stupid and lacks merit. Maybe you should read what you post before attacking someone.
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Old 12-11-2005, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Do you lack any reading comprehension skills and simply deduction skills?
Did you know that water weighs about 7lbs per gallon? Did you also know salt lowers the freezing point of water about 3-4 degrees?!?!?



My comment has about as much to do with this conversation as you bringing up the Honda transmissions problems. Make sure you read my post not just skip to the reply button before finishing it.

I pointed out that the GTO interior was nice and was right there with the CL-S. Again, the CL-S doesn't have a fantastic interior that blows you away.
So you ignored my feature comparison and ducked around the plastics comment.

Then I made a comment to YOUR generalized comments at reliablity. I simply pointed out that Acura has it share of problems. And If you were comparing interior design, why did you point out "Paint problems, electrical problems, and suspension problems?"
He asked why people always beat up on the GTO. I answered with the reasons why my friends sold theirs... THAT WAS WHY ***THEY*** SOLD THIERS.

Argument!?!? I'm not arguing... your the one on the attack.

*YOU* brought up the CL-S comparison. NO ONE ELSE... YOU! The original comments were based on his opposing question of "why do people always hate on the GTO". I responded with "why my friends sold theirs". I could have easily gone into the fact it looks like a cavalier with a V8 stuck in it but I didn't. Two of the people I know had theirs less than a year and traded it up for quality issues.

Your arguement is stupid and lacks merit.
Maybe you should read what you post before attacking someone.
Argument? Your the one on the CLS -> GTO comparsion that is totally ludicris. I was just playing school teacher. I own other vehichles besides my CLS. You didn't see me comparing them did you? YOUR the only one doing that.

I also said the GTO has nice interior, it's just not on par with the CL type-s. As it shouldn't be, it's not trying to be a luxury vehicle.



The only generalized comment I made was the "GTO is not built well". I didn't say it had any major design flaws. It's just the standard pontiac build quality. This is easily seen by the TSB's for the vehcile and re-calls. But I don't want to go into that conversation.

Anyway, why don't we try and discuss the new Camaro. Or if your bored you can go read this.
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/48/044818iS.html
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Old 12-11-2005, 05:35 PM
  #100  
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the Camaro is gonna be hawt if they really bring that design out


Only problem with the GTO for me is that it doesn't look aggressive enough to match it's power. But the changes it's gotten since it came out is definately an improvement.
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Old 12-11-2005, 10:09 PM
  #101  
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That's why I like the GTO totally sleeper until it's floored.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
Did you know that water weighs about 7lbs per gallon? Did you also know salt lowers the freezing point of water about 3-4 degrees?!?!?



My comment has about as much to do with this conversation as you bringing up the Honda transmissions problems. Make sure you read my post not just skip to the reply button before finishing it.



So you ignored my feature comparison and ducked around the plastics comment.



He asked why people always beat up on the GTO. I answered with the reasons why my friends sold theirs... THAT WAS WHY ***THEY*** SOLD THIERS.

Argument!?!? I'm not arguing... your the one on the attack.

*YOU* brought up the CL-S comparison. NO ONE ELSE... YOU! The original comments were based on his opposing question of "why do people always hate on the GTO". I responded with "why my friends sold theirs". I could have easily gone into the fact it looks like a cavalier with a V8 stuck in it but I didn't. Two of the people I know had theirs less than a year and traded it up for quality issues.



Argument? Your the one on the CLS -> GTO comparsion that is totally ludicris. I was just playing school teacher. I own other vehichles besides my CLS. You didn't see me comparing them did you? YOUR the only one doing that.

I also said the GTO has nice interior, it's just not on par with the CL type-s. As it shouldn't be, it's not trying to be a luxury vehicle.



The only generalized comment I made was the "GTO is not built well". I didn't say it had any major design flaws. It's just the standard pontiac build quality. This is easily seen by the TSB's for the vehcile and re-calls. But I don't want to go into that conversation.

Anyway, why don't we try and discuss the new Camaro. Or if your bored you can go read this.
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/48/044818iS.html
Again, reading comprehension OWNZ you...

My first post was 92, read it and then look at the bolded statemend you posted above(then hit yourself in the head). You pointed out that the GTO wasn't very well built, then I countered and stated it was. You compared the CL-S to the GTO in post 92. Again, I countered that the CL-S isn't the most reliable car on the planet after your generalized comment. Hence the comment on the CL-S's amazing transmission.

You can argue all you want about features. The GTO doesn't have everything the CL-S does and vice versa. I will gladly give up Navi for a LS2 and T56. Plus FWD is horrible for a sporty car. The interior quality of both cars are close.

I can go on and on "schooling" you, but I don't want to hear you ramble on just for the sake of arguement. Again, before you post, please read what you originally stated.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:06 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Again, reading comprehension OWNZ you...

My first post was 92, read it and then look at the bolded statemend you posted above(then hit yourself in the head). You pointed out that the GTO wasn't very well built, then I countered and stated it was. You compared the CL-S to the GTO in post 92. Again, I countered that the CL-S isn't the most reliable car on the planet after your generalized comment. Hence the comment on the CL-S's amazing transmission.

You can argue all you want about features. The GTO doesn't have everything the CL-S does and vice versa. I will gladly give up Navi for a LS2 and T56. Plus FWD is horrible for a sporty car. The interior quality of both cars are close.

I can go on and on "schooling" you, but I don't want to hear you ramble on just for the sake of arguement. Again, before you post, please read what you originally stated.

Are you a democrat?

The GTO interior is every bit as nice as a CL-S...
The interior quality of both cars are close.
It went from "every bit as nice", to "are close".



Once again *YOU* brought the CL-S quality/tranmission into this the 1st poster only compared CLS interior. You mentioned the CL tranmission in defense. When there was no need for it, as I have said various times now.

Go compare TSB's on a 2001 CL type-s to a 2004 GTO. Note the one with the paint peeling from the steeringwheel for example. There are 2-3 pages of them.

For the sake of I'm sick of reading these responses and whoring up this thread, OK whatever man. Lets move on.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:22 AM
  #104  
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Maximized you are an idiot.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
Are you a democrat?





It went from "every bit as nice", to "are close".



Once again *YOU* brought the CL-S quality/tranmission into this the 1st poster only compared CLS interior. You mentioned the CL tranmission in defense. When there was no need for it, as I have said various times now.

Go compare TSB's on a 2001 CL type-s to a 2004 GTO. Note the one with the paint peeling from the steeringwheel for example. There are 2-3 pages of them.

For the sake of I'm sick of reading these responses and whoring up this thread, OK whatever man. Lets move on.
Okay since you can't read or don't feel like it here is the post I responded to. The tranmission comment was directed towarded your knock at GTO quality. Notice the Bolded statements. No, I am a republican and usually when people are losing an arguement they point out semantics

"I'm not knocking your car but...

GTO is not built well, the interior is not comparable to a CL-S. Two of my friends had them, both of them got rid of the car in less than a year.

Why?

Paint problems
electrical problems
suspension problems
leaks
squeaks

They basically were giving the GTO away. Neighter of my friends paid more than $20k for one brand new.

Comparing a near luxury interior to a sport class is kinda crazy man. Both are nice but they can't be compared really.

I like the concept of the GTO, lots of power in a small chassis. But I can't get over the cavalier looks of the car."
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:38 AM
  #106  
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The CL is Hot, not perfect, that's why it's been discontinued. It had good power, great luxury features, but bland styling did it in, along with maybe the fact that it was FWD. It can do everything the G35 coupe can do, but doesnt look as good doing it. The GTO is bland, but the looks are not ugly. The HP to dollar ratio is excellent. You will not find a 400 hp coupe for that price, but once again, bland styling will do it in just like the CL.
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Okay since you can't read or don't feel like it here is the post I responded to. The tranmission comment was directed towarded your knock at GTO quality. Notice the Bolded statements. No, I am a republican and usually when people are losing an arguement they point out semantics

"I'm not knocking your car but...

GTO is not built well, the interior is not comparable to a CL-S. Two of my friends had them, both of them got rid of the car in less than a year.

Why?

Paint problems
electrical problems
suspension problems
leaks
squeaks

They basically were giving the GTO away. Neighter of my friends paid more than $20k for one brand new.

Comparing a near luxury interior to a sport class is kinda crazy man. Both are nice but they can't be compared really.

I like the concept of the GTO, lots of power in a small chassis. But I can't get over the cavalier looks of the car."
You flip-floped on that one, it was called humor man. 1st it was equal, then it was close. Make up your mind.

See you keep forgetting, HE comapred the CL-S interior to the GTO to start not me.
WTF? Why does everyone hate on the GTO? It's the most well built car I have ever owned. It puts my CL-S to shame.
Then *YOU* started in with the transmission issues. Which I have already said all of this multiple times. It had nothing to do with this conversation.

And for crists sake, for the 4th time...

RE: The "The tranmission comment was directed towarded your knock at GTO quality"

I was answering his "WHY DO PEOPLE HATE ON THE GTO?" question. I told him WHY my friends sold theirs, I wasn't bagging on the quality directly. Those were the reasons they sold theirs.

Here let me quote myself... again...
Originally Posted by SiGGy
both of them got rid of the car in less than a year.

Why?

Paint problems
electrical problems
suspension problems
leaks
squeaks
man your like a brick.

And where's the TSB comparison of a 2001 CL-S to a 2004 GTO? I'm still waiting... i've already done it. I'm waiting for you to post the 3 page long TSB on the 04 GTO vs 1 page 01 CL. Then I want to highlight the interior paint peeling problems, and all the other wonderful things in there.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:04 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by bigman
The CL is Hot, not perfect, that's why it's been discontinued. It had good power, great luxury features, but bland styling did it in, along with maybe the fact that it was FWD. It can do everything the G35 coupe can do, but doesnt look as good doing it. The GTO is bland, but the looks are not ugly. The HP to dollar ratio is excellent. You will not find a 400 hp coupe for that price, but once again, bland styling will do it in just like the CL.

I think it's already been scheduled to be discontinued as well. However that was just rumor mill. Time will tell...

I know the Aztek outsold it though!
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
Anyway, why don't we try and discuss the new Camaro. Or if your bored you can go read this.
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/48/044818iS.html
holy piss!
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
You flip-floped on that one, it was called humor man. 1st it was equal, then it was close. Make up your mind.

See you keep forgetting, HE comapred the CL-S interior to the GTO to start not me.

Then *YOU* started in with the transmission issues. Which I have already said all of this multiple times. It had nothing to do with this conversation.

And for crists sake, for the 4th time...

RE: The "The tranmission comment was directed towarded your knock at GTO quality"

I was answering his "WHY DO PEOPLE HATE ON THE GTO?" question. I told him WHY my friends sold theirs, I wasn't bagging on the quality directly. Those were the reasons they sold theirs.

Here let me quote myself... again...


man your like a brick.

And where's the TSB comparison of a 2001 CL-S to a 2004 GTO? I'm still waiting... i've already done it. The 2004 GTO TSB's shows a lack of build quality. I'm waiting for you to post the 3 page long TSB on the 04 GTO vs 1 page 01 CL. Then I want to highlight the interior paint peeling problems, and all the other wonderful things in there.
Again arguing semantics with what I said. Ashburner compared how comfortable his car felt. Then you countered about the interior of the CL-S. Both have really nice interiors IMO.

I stated the transmission isssues, since it is a quality issue that is well known to the CL-S. I can read what you posted and it seemed to me that you were pointing out your friend's problems to prove your "not well built" comment. I was merely trying to point out that every makes has it's share of problems, even your beloved CL-S. Acura isn't the most reliable brand, in fact it is near the industry average. Many GM makes are rated above Acura in intial quality. You can look at the recall and TSB data all you want, it's irrelevant. My mother's 04' RX330 has had numerous safety recalls(look that up on All-Data). The last one being a brake booster recall. Does that mean that Lexus is unreliable or of poor quality???? I think that anyone that knows a bit about cars that would point out that Lexus is arguably one of the most reliable vehicles produced.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
I think it's already been scheduled to be discontinued as well. However that was just rumor mill. Time will tell...

I know the Aztek outsold it though!
FYI...GM already confirmed the 08' GTO. It will have much more agressive styling. There were CGI pics floating around.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Again arguing semantics with what I said. Ashburner compared how comfortable his car felt. Then you countered about the interior of the CL-S. Both have really nice interiors IMO.

I stated the transmission isssues, since it is a quality issue that is well known to the CL-S. I can read what you posted and it seemed to me that you were pointing out your friend's problems to prove your "not well built" comment. I was merely trying to point out that every makes has it's share of problems, even your beloved CL-S. Acura isn't the most reliable brand, in fact it is near the industry average. Many GM makes are rated above Acura in intial quality. You can look at the recall and TSB data all you want, it's irrelevant. My mother's 04' RX330 has had numerous safety recalls(look that up on All-Data). The last one being a brake booster recall. Does that mean that Lexus is unreliable or of poor quality???? I think that anyone that knows a bit about cars that would point out that Lexus is arguably one of the most reliable vehicles produced.
The trasnmission is a Honda issue, it's in many vehicles. And yes it royally sucks.

The TSB's are irrelevant? that's just a convenient argument to skip around the paint peeling, suspenion knocking, electrical problems the TSBs address.

Wow your good at bringing in pointless arguments. We are discussing a Acura CL and a Pontiac GTO stay on topic.

To examine the TSB/recalls you should look at a 1st year models 1st off. Which is why I said 2001 CL vs 2004 pontiac. You mom's truck has only had 24 TSB's/recalls in 2004 (all of the other TSB's are from 2003 and 2005) vs 61 the GTO had in 2004.

But to add to your off-topic post...

Almost all re-calls from Toyota are pro-active to fix major flaws.

GM usally doesn't do a recall unless it's forced too to the NTSB. GM re-calls are re-active NOT pro-active. That is why Toyota is on top in that area they fix the problems usually before the customer has an issue.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:44 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Maximized
FYI...GM already confirmed the 08' GTO. It will have much more agressive styling. There were CGI pics floating around.



I'm eager to see it, the Camaro (topic of the thread actually, lol) looks awesome.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
The trasnmission is a Honda issue, it's in many vehicles. And yes it royally sucks.

The TSB's are irrelevant? that's just a convenient argument to skip around the paint peeling, suspenion knocking, electrical problems the TSBs address.

Wow your good at bringing in pointless arguments. We are discussing a Acura CL and a Pontiac GTO stay on topic.

To examine the TSB/recalls you should look at a 1st year models 1st off. Which is why I said 2001 CL vs 2004 pontiac. You mom's truck has only had 24 TSB's/recalls in 2004 (all of the other TSB's are from 2003 and 2005) vs 61 the GTO had in 2004.

But to add to your off-topic post...

Almost all re-calls from Toyota are pro-active to fix major flaws.

GM usally doesn't do a recall unless it's forced too to the NTSB. GM re-calls are re-active NOT pro-active. That is why Toyota is on top in that area they fix the problems usually before the customer has an issue.
Here is why it's irrelevant:
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/01/01012332.html

The CL-S has it's share of problems as well. Again, I can provide links showing Acura quality as average. My point in providing the Lexus example is that TSBs and recalls don't always mean the car is of poor quality or unreliable.

And how am I bringing in pointless arguements? The original topic was the next Gen Camaro, I didn't start this side topic.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:55 AM
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The CL is Hot, not perfect, that's why it's been discontinued. It had good power, great luxury features, but bland styling did it in, along with maybe the fact that it was FWD. It can do everything the G35 coupe can do, but doesnt look as good doing it. The GTO is bland, but the looks are not ugly. The HP to dollar ratio is excellent. You will not find a 400 hp coupe for that price, but once again, bland styling will do it in just like the CL.
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Here is why it's irrelevant:
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/01/01012332.html

The CL-S has it's share of problems as well. Again, I can provide links showing Acura quality as average. My point in providing the Lexus example is that TSBs and recalls don't always mean the car is of poor quality or unreliable.

And how am I bringing in pointless arguements? The original topic was the next Gen Camaro, I didn't start this side topic.

That link mr. smarty includes 5 years of TSBs for the CL.

WHICH STILL ARE LESS THAN THE GTO HAD IN 1 YEAR!!!

61 for GTO in one year!
44 for CL-S in 5 years of TSBs

At that rate the GTO will have about 300 compared to the 44 the Acura did after 5 years.

your killing me here... at least know what your posting represents. Lets wait another 3-4 years and compare again

Man, I can't keep doing this all day. It's been fun chatting with ya...
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:16 PM
  #117  
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Has the 400hp and aggressive styling package (scooped hood, body kit, etc) helped current GTO sales?
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
That link mr. smarty includes 5 years of TSBs for the CL.

WHICH STILL ARE LESS THAN THE GTO HAD IN 1 YEAR!!!

61 for GTO in one year!
44 for CL-S in 5 years of TSBs

At that rate the GTO will have about 300 compared to the 44 the Acura did after 5 years.

your killing me here... at least know what your posting represents. Lets wait another 3-4 years and compare again

Man, I can't keep doing this all day. It's been fun chatting with ya...
You told me to compare the TSBs of the 2001 CL-S. The link is from the same source you got the data from on the GTO. Cars usually tend to have more problems in their infancy. Hence that is why the CL-S doesn't have many after years into it's product cycle. Again, TSB's and recalls doesn't mean that cars aren't reliable or of poor quality. My Lexus example is a prime example of this.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
You told me to compare the TSBs of the 2001 CL-S. The link is from the same source you got the data from on the GTO. Cars usually tend to have more problems in their infancy. Hence that is why the CL-S doesn't have many after years into it's product cycle. Again, TSB's and recalls doesn't mean that cars aren't reliable or of poor quality. My Lexus example is a prime example of this.

yes, for the 2001 year not to include the last 5 years, BUT EVEN WITH IT it has less. And it has had 5 years to find issues!

I didn't include the 2005 TSB's for the GTO only the 2004, and it had 61! You can probably add anorther 10-15 on for this years TSB's most wont show up until the next publication.

The CL type-s had 8 TSB's it's 1st year and approximately 8 every year following.

8 vs 61

TSB's are created by customers with problems. They don't create TSB's for issues that don't exist. Yes, it is a very good gauge.

Your Lexus was a HORRIBLE example, I shot it down previously. Go read it again.

Comparing a Truck (lexus) /w 4wd and a bunch of other crap to a 2 door coupe with basic components is crazy. But even when you do that the Lexus won!!! I'd expect the lexus to lose since it has more things than can go wrong, but it didn't. In 3 years the lexus had 55, that averages out to be 18 a year.

So lets see

In 3 years time Lexus has 55
In 1 year of time the GTO has 61
In 5 years time the Acura has 44

All of those INCLUDE the vehciles 1st year launch!

This is going no-where... I'm out.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:09 PM
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^^ add to that that the monaro has been out for a few years already in australia; some of this shit shoulda been resolved by 2004.
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