Cadillac Ultraluxury Sedan News
10-24-2004, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Collective27
Where is the deville suposed to fit into there plans...i know its suposed to be redesigned soon, but what is it going to compete with???....with the new STS out, i just dont see what it would compete against/be priced at...the sts is now maxed out at like 60k...i always thought the deville was suposed to be higher up then the STS...so what will that be maxed out at, like 70k???
02-22-2005, 02:55 PM
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Caddy super-limo to take on Germans - - Source: Autocar
Cadillac is planning to launch a flagship model inspired by the spectacular Sixteen concept car first unveiled in 2003. The new model would slot into the $120,000-150,000 (£65,000-80,000) price bracket and compete against the most expensive Mercedes S-class and Audi A8 models. Caddy’s current range-topper is the new DTS (right), which was launched at the Chicago Motor Show last week.
According to a senior Cadillac source, GM engineers are currently working on the styling of the new car, although the project hasn’t been given the final green light by the GM board. However, if it does get the go-ahead it could be on sale globally by 2008.
It will be based on a stretched version of the rear- and four-wheel-drive Sigma chassis that underpins the CTS, STS and SRX models. The look draws directly on the surfacing of the Sixteen design, though there will be more curvature in the body.
A number of engine options are being considered, including eight-, 10- and 12-cylinder formats, though the latter two are the favourites. A cheaper version of the car could also be launched into the crucial $80,000-90,000 (£45,000-50,000) slot in the US market with a V8 engine.
According to a senior Cadillac source, GM engineers are currently working on the styling of the new car, although the project hasn’t been given the final green light by the GM board. However, if it does get the go-ahead it could be on sale globally by 2008.
It will be based on a stretched version of the rear- and four-wheel-drive Sigma chassis that underpins the CTS, STS and SRX models. The look draws directly on the surfacing of the Sixteen design, though there will be more curvature in the body.
A number of engine options are being considered, including eight-, 10- and 12-cylinder formats, though the latter two are the favourites. A cheaper version of the car could also be launched into the crucial $80,000-90,000 (£45,000-50,000) slot in the US market with a V8 engine.
02-22-2005, 04:15 PM
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^ Well, that's it... And I'm happy to see that they're going through with it. A car to truly compete with the S600s, let alone S500s of the world. It's interesting the way the article is written. Instead of saying "We're developing an A8 competitor off of Sigma, and will include range topping V12 models for 120-150K," they said "We're developing an A8 6.0 competitor off of Sigma and will also include a few V8 engines to compete with the mass market V8 S/7/A8 cars." Very slick. Good news, though.
02-26-2005, 02:36 PM
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MT mag is reporting that the so called Cadillac ULS will be built on a "premiumized" version of the Zeta platform which will be used for the 2007 Buick Velite, Pontiac G8 and next GTO. GM thinks the Sigma platform has been stretched to its limits with the STS. The new Zeta platform can be fitted with forged aluminum suspension, high end bearings and bushings to ensure expected ride quality.
And the big news here is that the likely engine is an LS7 with two more cylinders added to make a V10, good for 600HP. We will see the ULS as a concept in next year's Detroit Auto Show.
02-26-2005, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
I hope the engine info is wrong because I cant see a pushrod engine used in this segment.
02-26-2005, 07:09 PM
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Didn't Caddy already build a V12? I thought they had a prototype running in an Escalade? I agree that a LS7 V10 isn't a good choice for a ultra-luxury sedan.
02-26-2005, 09:07 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by gavriil
The new Zeta platform can be fitted with forged aluminum suspension, high end bearings and bushings to ensure expected ride quality....
? Does this mean that the bearings and bushings used in previous Caddies wore out quickly?
02-26-2005, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyV6
What are "high end bearings and bushings" ? Does this mean that the bearings and bushings used in previous Caddies wore out quickly?
? Does this mean that the bearings and bushings used in previous Caddies wore out quickly?
02-27-2005, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyV6
What are "high end bearings and bushings" ? Does this mean that the bearings and bushings used in previous Caddies wore out quickly?
? Does this mean that the bearings and bushings used in previous Caddies wore out quickly?Here is an example:
03-31-2005, 01:15 PM
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Cadillac UL Coupe News **CGIs added (first post)**
Motortrend mag is reporting about plans within GM of an Ultra Luxury Coupe. They say that it's not just plans but that there is a full size clay model completed for execs to look at. Lutz wants it, others are not sure. They also have a CGI shown in the mag. Imagine a mix between an XLR and a Cadillac 16.
It will go against the Bentley Coninental GT for $40K less (that's about $120K).
Other GM execs cant justify the cost of it and its unique V10 or V12 engine that Lutz wants. Since it cant be used with other existing Cadillacs such an engine would be unique to this vehicle (and possibly other future vehicles) which means low volume. Low volume means high expense, low economies of scale possibility.
MT talks about the Zeta being a platform possibility but now we know such a possibility is out of the question (funny thing is that MT has an article about the next GTO within the same volume and talks about Zeta being the platform of choice which of course means that it was printed before the latest "zeta-is-dead for the usa" news).
So will it be a stretched Sigma, or does the death of Zeta means the ULS project is dead?
Lutz wants between 500 and 600 HP for this car. The XV12 engine we saw in the Cien comes to mind because it's been tested all the way to 750HP (and 450 pounds of torque) at 7.5 NA liters. But that engine would be super expensive to produce in limited volume.
The mag mentions that a Northstar engine is already up to $2500 more expensive than an LS2 currently. Hence the rumors about a V10 LS7 running in the Blue Devil. But many within GM say that a vehicle like this would not justify an OHV designed engine. I agree for whatever it's worth.
Also a V10 would have a lot more vibration issues to deal with than a V12.
A final alternative is some version of the existing SCed 4.4 liter engine in the STSV and XLRV if it could be tuned for more power.
Source: Autoweek Forums
03-31-2005, 01:31 PM
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Build the car. Use the V12. Then, build an S-Class fighter that will offer the same engine as it's flagship model, to compete with the S600, 760Li, etc. Then, cram it in the next gen STS for the STS-V. By then, you'ver spread out the applications, improving economies of scale, and lowering costs.
03-31-2005, 01:35 PM
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this just might be the "1000 HP" car my school's Auto's teacher was talking to me about. Keep in mind, he's a senior engineer at GM and has plenty of info in his head, so I took that usually absurd prediction as potential fact.
03-31-2005, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Infamous425
they cant even sell the XLR so why this?
03-31-2005, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Infamous425
they cant even sell the XLR so why this?
03-31-2005, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by titan
Build the car. Use the V12. Then, build an S-Class fighter that will offer the same engine as it's flagship model, to compete with the S600, 760Li, etc. Then, cram it in the next gen STS for the STS-V. By then, you'ver spread out the applications, improving economies of scale, and lowering costs.
Unfortunately, it's more complicated than that.
A V10 or V12 wont fit in the current STS.
Finally, a 7series/S-Class fighter is 1.5 to 2.0 years away.
03-31-2005, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
this just might be the "1000 HP" car my school's Auto's teacher was talking to me about. Keep in mind, he's a senior engineer at GM and has plenty of info in his head, so I took that usually absurd prediction as potential fact.
03-31-2005, 08:23 PM
#67
Originally Posted by goldmemberer
^^
(A concept that continually eludes Acura)
(A concept that continually eludes Acura)
04-01-2005, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
1000HP? That was the 16, no?
04-01-2005, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
In all fairness, I dont think GM cares if this ULS is profitable. These are halo cars. Image-brand-makers.
04-01-2005, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Unfortunately, it's more complicated than that.
A V10 or V12 wont fit in the current STS.
Finally, a 7series/S-Class fighter is 1.5 to 2.0 years away.
A V10 or V12 wont fit in the current STS.
Finally, a 7series/S-Class fighter is 1.5 to 2.0 years away.
04-01-2005, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by charliemike
VW tried this and lost their ass. Why would it be more likely to succeed at Cadillac than VW?
04-01-2005, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
i think he was hinting at production. caddy might be coming out with a carrera gt/ enzo "fighter" with that HP number.
04-01-2005, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by charliemike
VW tried this and lost their ass. Why would it be more likely to succeed at Cadillac than VW?
04-01-2005, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by titan
Yeah, I know that the V10 or 12 won't fit in the current version. I was saying, make sure the next gen (years away) will be able to accept it. My timeline was line yours... the S-Class fighter is 2 years away. Make sure the V12 can fit in there. By that time the STS should be getting it's midcycle refresh. Another 2-3 years will bring a new STS (to accept the bigger engine). Assuming it'll take atleast 18-24 months (more like 3 years, I'm thinking) to bring the ULS coupe into production means that the use of the V12 will have more than one application when all of the projects come to fruition.
The S-class fighter may be able to accept a V10/12 engine but it;s a couple of years away. The STS will need a minimum of 4 if not 5 or even 6 years before a complete redo. That means the V10/12 engine will be used is extremely minimal volume for a long time.
The ULS and ULC are probably 1.5 years away. If approved.
04-01-2005, 10:43 AM
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^ I see what you're saying. Do you think that a more economical version offering the Northstar is also in the cards after the V12 launch? Makes sense to have a volume car too.
04-01-2005, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
What is the source of this info?
04-01-2005, 02:27 PM
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The XLR is there current halo car, and it isn't selling. Now they've got the XLR-V coming. Will it sell? Maybe, but the Z06 is a way better deal. Given GM's current struggles, this is far from the type of vehicle that they need to be concerning themselves with, but given Lutz's penchant for developing niche products that do little for the bottom line, I wouldn't be surprised.
04-01-2005, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by titan
^ I see what you're saying. Do you think that a more economical version offering the Northstar is also in the cards after the V12 launch? Makes sense to have a volume car too.
04-01-2005, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
in all honesty, i would not know. however, he has won me over with his early predictions (or what he'd consider "early knowledge") of GM products. I really don't know where he gets his info, but I can understand seeing that he is a Senior Engineer for GM, teaching only in the winter.
Well, hopefully he is right. Hopefully the project is not canceled after this latest bad news for GM.