gavriil

Glad to you hear you say (see you write) that Zap

gavriil

So I am assuming at least 300 pounds of torque if not more. To be honest, I was expectin a little more power off of this setup. Something like 325HP. That way you are right in the middle of 255HP and 400HP.

Chaptorial

Nice. Whats under the hood now makes up for it uglyness.

Zapata

lol why? I can appreciate any car....not limited to imports Sure as of late i've been less than excited with what's been offered but honesy i don't think there was much to get excited about.

Caddy seems to be taking the approach Acura wants to take. Lux w/ value priced lower than the other imports.....hopefully they won't charge out the ass for this thing.

they need to improve on the interior alittle......

Maximized

Why not just buy the CTS-V??? Seems like kind of a stupid move IMO.

cusdaddy

The CTS-V is really expensive. This is a nice mid-priced alternative. It gives great performance for probably a much more reasonable price if it's ever released

Maximized

Thats true, but the cost of the parts will make this vehicle within a few thousands of the V.

ApocalypseCL

300 hp isnt a lot at all.

cusdaddy

Huh??? I think 300hp for a sedan is nice. What other sedans have 300hp stock in this price range?

Caddy has the CTS-V for those who want insane power. This is a nice boost and we all know that superchargers are pretty easy to mod

pimpscls

not bad

Red Nj-s

SWEEET

gavriil

Because I bet this thing will cost around $42K. For the CTSV you need $9K more.

gavriil

Yet a $42K 330i gets away with 225 HP. And dont even get me started on the, also $46K+ priced, 525i which dimentionaly is competing with the CTS. That one gets away with...what?...TEN HP? Or is it NINE HP?

So suddenly 300HP sounds gargantuan.

gavriil

Exactly. 50HP will be just a smaller S/C pulley away.

Maximized

I looked at a new CTS with mom my about a month ago. IIRC they wanted nearly 42k for a luxury sport CTS. The car at SEMA will add roughly 4k to that price. I would bet a MSRP of around 46K. Look at all the features they added to this car. Heck the corsa exhaust costs ~750.

agisd

I can live with it if I get $10k off.

Btw, are the cars hitting the showrooms?

gavriil

Yes. Soon.

gavriil

TMV for the CTSV is $50,197 including destination. If the SPORT costs $46K, I dont see how it makes sense. Unless if they market it towards those who want more show that go. With the CTSV being the opposite. Possibly then...

gavriil

Wait, I just looked at the TMV for a 2004 CTS and it is $36,350, including $6,144 worth of options and $695 for the destination. That price includes the new 3.6 liter engine.

Specifically:

1SB Equipment Package - TMV= $4,941

It includes:

Includes vehicle with standard equipment and 3.6L V6 VVT engine with 260 hp @ 6,500 rpm and 252 lb-ft of torque @ 2,800 rpm, 5-speed Getrag automatic transmission, wood trim on steering wheel and shift knob, memory package with 2 presets for driver seat and exterior mirrors, auto-dimming inside rearview mirror with compass and OnStar controls, 8-way power driver and front passenger seats with power recline and 2-way power lumbar support adjustment, heated front seats, HomeLink universal transmitter and theft-deterrent alarm system.

U2S

Bose 6-Disc In-Dash CD Changer TMV= $1,203

You must have optioned it out.

Maximized

Let me clarify....The vehicle was loaded except for the navigation system and the price was MSRP. After driving the car, my mom wasnt interested in it, so we didn't talk to much about what we could buy the car for. Im interested to see what it costs, Im sticking to ~46k MSRP.

gavriil

When I wrote that the TMV for a 2004 CTS is $36,350 that means that that's the average CTS going out the door at dealers this past week. The MSRP for that car is $37,570. So not much lower than MSRP.

Gilgamesh

With some interior work, the car would be great, that said, with the aluminum and what not, the interior is not that bad.

BMW lovers are just pissed that will Caddy and then :pee: all over them, and for less money.

Just like a BMW salesman telling you that E36 M3's (stock) and E46 330's will lap G35's, 350Z's and WRX's all day at the track (Yes, a BMW salesman told me just that)

SpeedyV6

Honestly I like the interior in the GTO better. Once the 400hp GTO comes out I think I'll go with that.

gavriil

Cadillac may base European car on a Saab platform


By WIM OUDE WEERNINK AND RICK KRANZ
Automotive News

DETROIT -- General Motors is close to a decision on development of a small Cadillac based on the Saab 9-3 for sale outside North America.

Two variants of the 9-3, a sedan and a convertible, are being considered, according to GM sources in Europe. The models could provide much-needed volume for Cadillac's new independent distributor in Europe.

If approved for production, the Saab-based Cadillac sedan would be assembled at Saab's plant in Trollhattan, Sweden. A convertible version would be produced by Magna Steyr in Austria.

The Cadillac models would have front- and rear-end styling that draws on design themes from the current Cadillac CTS and SRX. Sales could begin around 2007.

A GM source said the Saab 9-3 is being considered for Cadillac because the Trollhattan plant is underutilized.

Magna Steyr builds the Saab 9-3 convertible.

Company insiders say there are styling prototypes for the small Cadillac in Sweden. A photograph of the proposed model has been seen by representatives of Kroymans Corp., the Dutch company that imports Cadillacs to Europe.

"We have excellent potential in Europe, especially if we have a small model," says Kroymans CEO Ton Van Soest.

Last year Cadillac sold about 800 cars in Europe. "By the end of the decade that could be 10,000," said Cadillac General Manager Mark LaNeve. "But with a smaller Cadillac, it could be more." LaNeve was interviewed Jan. 4 at the Detroit auto show.

He would not confirm plans for a Saab-based model, but said Cadillac is studying the "low compact premium" segment.

"There are no plans or decisions," LaNeve said. "But we're looking at every asset GM has in terms platforms that could work for Europe."

LaNeve said a decision on whether to offer a small Cadillac would be made this year.

GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz would not discuss Cadillac's future product plans for Europe, but said, "Cadillac may at some point have more products, but we are not going to price below the CTS."

The mid-sized CTS sedan starts at 33,800 euros, or about $43,350 at current exchange rates.

Mark Hogan, GM group vice president for advanced vehicle development, denied that GM is developing a small Cadillac off the 9-3 platform.

"All I can say is, as far as I'm concerned, we're not working on it from a hard-engineering, product-development standpoint," Hogan said. "It is undoubtedly some testing or some market development (Cadillac) wants to do with respect to making sure the distributor has enough volume over there. It seems like that has a lot more work ahead of it."

But Hogan added: "Clearly we want Cadillac to be strong in Europe."

Cadillac's new European distributor will invest $50 million in a network of 25 large stand-alone dealerships. Kroymans Corp., of Hilversum, Netherlands, took over as Cadillac's distributor Oct. 1.

Cadillac sells the CTS sedan and STS full-sized sedan in Europe. The XLR roadster will be added this spring, and the SRX sport wagon will arrive in the second half of 2004.

Source: Autoweek

gavriil

That would make total sense. Lutz just keeps pounding. Cadillac is officially fixed on paper. Now let's execute.

1SICKLEX

The new 9-3 is a great car. I really like it. Why not a Caddy version? Hell they got a Suburu Saab!

gavriil

Top Gear 's John McCormick tested the CTS-V in Michigan (I am guessing before visiting the Detroit Auto Show). Here are some parts of what he noted in this review:

"I'm really starting to like this car. It stops smartly, corners crisply and goes like stink: 0-60mph in 4.6 seconds, says Cadillac, and a top end of 165mph. "

"Nice numbers and believable, I'd wager, but what's even more special is the mid-range grunt. That 'Vette pushrod motor just keeps on giving, with a seamless flow of thrust accompanied by a distinctly Detroit-ish exhaust growl. Owners of BMW M3s and M5s, Audi S4s and 'Benz E55s take note; this particular Cadillac is no dodderer heading for the country club. With half a chance it'll give you a bloody good hiding."

"GM devoted serious engineering talent, experience and cash to create a car worthy of knocking on the door of Germany's elitist performance saloon club."

"It is the first, but not the last, of a series of high performance editions coming from Cadillac and shows this once-moribund division is preparing to kick some German butt.

"I'd call it America's first civilised muscle car and encourage Cadillac to keep giving the V-sign to the competition."

http://www.topgear.com/servlet/tg?DE...Number=01.html

Python2121

great review, its amazing how quickly they changed directions! what i would give for this car...

Maximized

I can't wait to test one. My friend put a deposit down on one 3 months ago. The R&T test I read showed some great numbers. The car will be a 12 second sedan with some better rubber. Cadillac put a 3:73 gear in with 245 tires, which means no traction.

OUTRAGEOUS CL TYPE S

best part about this car is the G meter in the Dash

gavriil

What would you give? Cadillac only wants $50K from you

gavriil

To the g meter shows that engineers that had car-enthusiast priorities, were let to do their own thing to a large extend. Hence the results. And that's what Bob Lutz brought to GM. Exactly that. That's what he did to Chrysler with the Viper project 2 decades ago.

Maximized

Over the summer, I will get some digital pictures of what the CTS-V can pull on the racetrack with Goodyear slicks. My friend is going to use this car for some track events at Gingerman.

OUTRAGEOUS CL TYPE S

i would love to trade in my cts for the V, wish it was auto, other wise my wife gets sick from the jerking of the car changing gears.

Python2121

im only 17 , $50k is a long ways off

gavriil

One note of caution on this.

When magazines post (for example):

Cadillac CTSV
300ft Skidpad= 0.92 g

That does not mean one cannot pull a 1.1 g for a moment. The skidpad is a test of a circular test that shows sustained forces of the acceleration of gravity at the limit. It's not the "ultimate g test" for what a car can show in a situation where a slalom is happening. G measurements during a slalom run will be much larger than sustained/controlled skidpad G runs.

gavriil

My point was that, it is finite of what "you can give" in order to get that Caddy. It does not take more than about $50K

Certainly a $50K Cadillac is out of reach for a 17 year old. Parental action not taken into consideration. Though a $50K car is too much money for most people regardless of age.

gavriil

I was reading in some mag the other day that Lutz has ordered for a 3 mile part of the Nurburgring to be exactly copied in one of the new GM proving ground tracks. They nicknamed it the Lutzorging (or something like that).

Point is, THAT is how serious Lutz is to go all out against the Germans. No games.

I cant even imagine what Lutz would have been able to do if GM were in a much better financial position. It would have been over by now.

Maximized

There are a turns where you can sustain constant g's at Gingerman, so it should be fairly accurate.

OUTRAGEOUS CL TYPE S

ohh its pretty accurate, road and track tested it too.