gavriil

The more I think about this, the more unbelievable it sounds. I mean thinking about this from a raw materialistic perspective:

For $65K you get a luxo SEDAN (that means room for four adults and a nice size trunk), that has as much power as an Enzo!

Is it not unbelievable, or is it me going nuts about this? And I know it's a rumor, but if we put that aside for a moment and pretend this is reality a year from now, how can this not be a redefinition of a segment and one of the best "values" offered in the sector "next year"?

Let's see, what does one get for $65K today? Oh yes, a loaded Boxster S, a Lexus LS 430, a 545i, an E500, an A6 V8, a loaded Q45...

You cant even touch a base 911 for that, or a Viper which is considered a great value today. And dont even go in the Ferrari (i.e. 612), Maserati, etc. camp.

CLpower

the IRS wasn't a disaster at all int he cobra. The guys that road raced the cars loved it. IT was the drag racers that didn't like it. I know more then a few people w/ GT's that actually upgraded to IRS

Collective27

I severly doubt that it will have that much power, its simply not possible for that price, like you said gav that would be as much as an Enzo...i jsut cant see that happening. It would litterly be the biggest bargin in the history of the automobile if it is true though.

titan

They revised the interior? Good... that's my biggest gripe about the car. Can't wait to see it.

Maximized

I doubt the car will cost that little...add 10k onto the price and its more like it. Carbon Fiber and a 600hp engine arent cheap peices of equipment.

gavriil

Yeap!

SpeedyV6

For the time being, German cars have the cachet & much more opulent interiors. But, other than that, I agree with your thinking which is pretty much how most CL-S buyers assess a car's merits. The fact that Lexus sold millions more es300's than Acura sold in CL-S's suggests to me that the general public may still be reluctant to embrace the CTS-V, no matter how much content Cadillac packs into them. It takes time for the public to wake up to new realitites in the automotive marketplace.

titan

Awesome... simply awesome.

gavriil

I absulutely agree. Though I left "perception" as a factor out of my assessment above because I wanted to examine the truth as a car enthusiast. "What's REALLY left for the M5?" I am sure you know what I mean.

I totally agree though. Perception takes many years to change. Bad or good.

F23A4

IMO, the CTS-Super V vs M5 V10 comparison is akin to comparing the GTO with the G35C but at a MUCH higher level.

The GTO will romp on the G35C mercilessly but, I'd make some performance concessions for some style with the G.

Likewise, I'm loving the look of the E60 a LOT!!! Though I'm probably in the minority here, it looks sweeeeeet:



And 500hp pretty much ensures that I wont come across too many cars that could beat it. And if I really "need" more HP/TQ, I'll contact Steve Dinan and see what he could do for me.

Peace.

P.S.: I'd love to see how the new V compares with the E55 as well in the 0-150mph test. And too bad they're all governed; It'd be cool to see what these babies could do at the topend.

gavriil

Pontiac and G35C? Pontiac is not a luxo brand. Caddy is. BMW and Infiniti are as well. So the comparison is not good in my opinion.

goldmemberer

Bad comparo, sorry. I see where you're going with the GTO vs. G35c, but I have full faith in Caddy being able to make a monster. GM wants to make this brand really outshine the Germans/Japs and they did a very good job on the CTS... I can not see this car not giving direct competition to (if not ripping the doors off) the next M5.

amisconception

the GTO was compared to the CLK55 in a recent mag like motor trend!

so it is comparable

gavriil

That article was symbolic. That way, any car is comparable with any other car. Like when the new Accord coupe came out and they compared it with the CLK 320. The article basically was trying to compare 2 cars of the same characteristics minus the category (one luxo, the other not).

charliemike

Any news on the revised interior? Is this going to happen for 2k5?

cusdaddy

Wow... I'm speechless. That's amazing if it comes true. I really hope it does!!

gavriil

Yes it will happen for next year. I am guessing the interior will get clues from the STS.

charliemike

Thanks Gav ... and I was only giving you grief about the 471 HP Mallet CTS-V

:P

gavriil

New Products Strengthen GM Brands For 2005 - - Source: GM


The CTS offers buyers more choices with a new entry-level model with a new 2.8L V-6 engine, while the higher-end CTS with the 3.6L V-6 VVT engine receives a new six-speed manual transmission and the CTS-V continues to offer driving enthusiasts the combination of explosive power with refined performance.

gavriil

About the 6 speed tranny: At last! You know this 3.6 liter V6 was available only with an auto tranny up to now. If you wanted a manual, you'd have to go with the, then, base engine (3.0 liter).

What's up with this new 2.8 liter engine. I wonder why 2.8 liters. I guess it will go against the 325 and 525. So I am guessing 210HP.

gavriil

Below it reads:



"The new 2.8L V-6 VVT engine debuts in a new, entry-level model of the Cadillac CTS for 2005. A modified version of the 3.6L V-6 VVT that is available in several Cadillac models as well as the new Buick LaCrosse, the 2.8L V-6 VVT is packed with technologies such as fully variable valve timing of the intake and exhaust valves and a dual-stage variable intake manifold to deliver outstanding flexibility, fuel economy and emissions control."

titan

Yeah. I guess that's the game they're playing, offering an entry engine in the entry level model, a la' Bimmer, Acura, and Benz. Personally, I would have rathered Caddy just have the very nice 3.6V6 as the only choice for the regular CTS, like Acura and Infiniti. Still, I guess it allows people who want a less expensive choice to go that way.

gavriil

Cadillac to roll out entry-level CTS for 2005 - - By DAVE GUILFORD | Automotive News - - Source: Autoweek


DETROIT -- Cadillac will offer a lower-priced entry-level version of the CTS sedan with a smaller engine for the 2005 model year.

The division will replace the base model's 3.2-liter V6 and lower the price slightly from the current base of $31,345, including destination. The new engine will be a 2.8-liter V6.

John Howell, Cadillac product director, says the decision was forced on Cadillac because the 3.2-liter V6 is going out of production. But he says Cadillac also wants to be competitive with such rivals as the BMW 325i, starting at $28,495.

"We have a lot of competition in that part of the market," Howell says.

The entry-luxury segment will see more entries priced between $20,000 and $27,000 with prestige-brand compacts such as the Audi A3 and General Motors' Saab 9-2X.

Although the CTS is in a different segment, it could be cross-shopped with vehicles in that price range, Howell says. The base CTS price won't be as low as $27,000, but it shouldn't be too far above that, he says.

The 2.8-liter V6 will make 210 hp and 195 pounds-feet of torque, compared with 220 hp and 220 pounds-feet of torque for the 3.2-liter V6.

The new engine is part of the same "high-feature V6" engine family as the CTS' 3.6-liter V6, Howell says.

Howell says about 80 percent of CTS buyers opt for the 3.6-liter engine.

gavriil

Wow, I was right on the money with my HP guess for this new engine.

I like this move. It makes sense and I think it will add to the overall CTS sales. The base A4 and TSX are both in more trouble with this move.

titan

At first I didn't like this decision, but now I think it's probably wise, since Caddy isn't going to place a model below the CTS. For a while, I thought they were going to bring over the AWD Saab built CTS that we've heard about for the the European market; but since the CTS is as low as the range will go, Caddy should have an engine choice.

gavriil

It is not certain that we will see the baby CTS sold here in the USA. At least not at first. The baby CTS is a car targeted for Europe mainly.

titan

Right; I don't know if it'll come here anymore. Since the CTS will be the lowest offering from Caddy, the engine option makes sense.

cusdaddy

I think it's a very good idea. not that I'd buy that model, but the low priced entry level lux cars seem to be doing very well

1SICKLEX

I think the sub 30k luxo market is an oxymoron. How well does the CTS sell anyway?
I think it just shows people don't think the CTS is a good value. We must give Caddy credit for offering more options though.

cusdaddy

I can be wrong, but I believe I read that the CTS is selling quite well. Definitely a huge improvement over the Catera.

I don't think it shows that people don't think the CTS is a good value. It's just that Cadillac sees BMW and Audi doing very well with the 325 and A4 1.8T and want a piece of that pie

gavriil

The CTS is doing well and it will do even better with the offerings of these two new engines. The 3.6 liter was just added remember.

heyitsme

Be more excited if the luxury level was really high, be nice just to pick up a car like the 200hp cts to toss around a little while having a plush interior.

Python2121

im curious as to how much money GM will make by making a smaller engine

i mean, doesn't the cost of creating a different assembly line weigh all costs of having a slightly larger engine (which im curious as to where they are)

1SICKLEX

I did not know sales figures of the CTS. I know the G35 and TL and ES 330 are selling like hotcakes.

heyitsme

4743 last month. Can only imagine when it gets updated.

cusdaddy

Those are very good sales #'s.. Better than the G35 (~3k sedans/month), worse than the TL (averaged ~6k sales/month) and is very close to the ES-330 monthly sales (~5.5k/month). These #'s somewhat vary month by month, but the CTS is doing very well in comparison.

gavriil

Now we need a CTS between the 255HP and CTSV versions. Whatever happened to that 300HP supercharged car we saw at SEMA last year? Make it 320HP and you're good to sell even better.

Starting from 210 to 255 to 320 to 400 HP. From 30 to $50K

heyitsme

That was a nice car, CTS Sport.

titan

The addition of a 320HP engine would be a perfect addition to the lineup, tough I'd rather see the NA Northstar found in the new STS and XLR. It should fit just fine under the hood, right?

gavriil

It should. And it makes exactly 320 HP