Ford: Development and Technology News

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Old 11-10-2005, 05:13 PM
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Ford: Development and Technology News

Innovation in Overdrive

New 3.5-liter V-6 engine to power one in five Ford vehicles by the end of the decade – including the new Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator crossover utility vehicles next year
Ford leads the way with a new 6-speed automatic transaxle that saves fuel – up to 7 percent in highway driving and nearly two tanks of gas a year compared with typical 4-speed automatics
Work begins on Ford’s third-generation hybrid technology for future I-4 and V-6 engines
Ford’s hybrid leadership continues with the debut of Escape Hybrid taxis in New York City

Building on its promise to make innovation the compass that sets the company’s future direction, Ford today unveiled a new engine, new 6-speed automatic transaxle and more hybrid plans that bring fuel economy and performance to the next generation of vehicles.

“As Bill Ford has promised, Ford plans to be first in delivering innovative products to our customers – products that are stylish in design, safer for families, first in technology with new fuels and better efficiency, and first in offering new services to consumers,” says Derrick Kuzak, Ford group vice president, Product Development. “That commitment includes innovation in the powertrain lineup that we’ll be offering beginning next year.”

New 3.5-Liter V-6

Ford next year will introduce two new breakthrough crossover utility vehicles (CUVs) – the Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator – equipped with an all-new 3.5-liter V-6 engine and new 6-speed transaxle. The new V-6 engine will be a powertrain cornerstone for Ford Motor Company, eventually powering one in every five Ford Motor Company vehicles on the road by the end of the decade.

The new 3.5-liter V-6 was designed to deliver the best combination of fuel economy, refinement and performance for the customer and be compact enough to fit into a variety of vehicles. The height and width of the engine is the same as the smaller displacement Duratec 30 V-6.

The engine produces 250 horsepower and 240 pound-feet of torque in its CUV applications. It uses a dual-overhead cam valvetrain for peak power capability and smooth operation at high RPM. It incorporates intake variable cam timing to optimize fuel economy by adjusting valve timing for a smooth idle, optimal part-load driving and an impressively broad torque curve with good power.

In anticipation of future needs, the new V-6 has been designed to accommodate advanced technologies, including gasoline direct injection and turbo charging.

The engine will be built in the fall of 2006 at Ford’s Lima (Ohio) Engine Plant.

6F 6-Speed Transaxle

Ford also underscored its leadership in fuel-saving transmissions with the reveal of a new 6-speed for the new Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator. Ford is an industry leader in 6-speed transmissions with 24 nameplates already offered with the highly efficient technology.

Six-speed automatic transaxles improve performance and fuel economy. It is estimated that, for every 500,000 6-speeds – rather than traditional 4-speeds – fitted to vehicles, 12 million gallons of fuel can be saved annually (based on 25 mpg combined fuel economy for 15,000 miles).

The enhanced performance and fuel economy of the new 6F comes from a wide span of 6.04 between the transaxle’s lowest and highest gear ratio. The high ratio span helps deliver improved fuel economy of up to 7 percent and improved sustained acceleration compared with a typical 4-speed automatic.

The new 6F will be fitted to the 3.5-liter V-6 in the Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator. The combination delivers optimal fuel economy and powerful performance combined with smooth, refined and quiet shifts.

The new Ford 6F will be built at Ford’s Van Dyke (Mich.) Transmission Plant.

More News on Hybrids

Ford also took another step toward delivering on its commitment of putting 250,000 hybrid vehicles a year on the road by 2010 with the announcement that engineering work already is under way on a third-generation hybrid transaxle – one developed using Ford’s in-house hybrid expertise.

Engineered in Dearborn, the new hybrid transaxle will be capable of handling both 4-cylinder and 6-cylinder engines for future vehicles.

n addition, Ford announced that the Ford Escape Hybrid would debut this week as the first hybrid taxi carrying passengers throughout the five boroughs of New York City. Ford, the New York City Taxi & Limousine Commission and the Coalition for Smart Transportation will mark the milestone on Thursday.

New fuel saving 6-speed transaxle to propel Ford Edge to head of crossover utility class

Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator to debut next year with new class-leading 6F 6-speed transaxle
New 6-speed delivers up to 7 percent improvement in highway fuel economy – nearly two tanks of gas a year compared with typical 4-speed automatics
Ford Motor Company today is an industry leader in 6-speeds with 24 nameplates offered – and more are on the way

With consumers focused on gas prices, the market is demanding more fuel-efficient vehicle technologies. Ford Motor Company’s innovative new 6F 6-speed automatic transaxle delivers just that – with up to a 7 percent improvement in highway fuel economy and more refined performance at the same time.

Ford Motor Company today is an industry leader in 6-speed technology with 24 nameplates offered – and more coming next year, including two new crossover utility vehicles (CUVs).

“Ford Motor Company will pace the industry in advanced transaxles, which provide increased performance and increased fuel economy,” says Barb Samardzich, Ford vice president of Powertrain Operations. “With the introduction of the Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator crossovers next year, our 6-speed leadership continues, and we have more on the way.” The new 6F was developed to cover a wide range of vehicle applications. It initially will be teamed with the new 3.5-liter V-6 in the Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator CUVs. The transaxle also is designed to handle up to 300 horsepower and 280 pound-feet of torque with shift speeds up to 7,000 rpm.

The enhanced performance and fuel economy of the 6F comes from a wide span of 6.04 between the transaxle’s lowest and highest gear ratio. The high ratio span helps deliver improved fuel economy and improved acceleration compared with a typical 4-speed automatic.

"Not only do the smaller ratio step sizes of a 6-speed transaxle allow for better powertrain efficiency, but they enable smoother shifts as well,” says Ram Krishnaswami, manager 6F Transaxle Systems, Automatic Transmission Engineering.

The new 6F front-drive 6-speed delivers on the two most important attributes that today’s consumers look for in a vehicle: fuel economy and maximum performance.

These characteristics are delivered by a low 4.48 gear for satisfying acceleration at launch and a tall, 0.74 overdrive for exceptional fuel economy. Short steps between intermediate gears enhance performance and feel by finding the right gear for the most efficient operating conditions. The smooth shifts reduce harshness and reduce overall NVH.

Development of the new 6F transaxle is the result of a collaborative effort between Ford and General Motors. Co-development of the transaxle resulted in a common approach to design and manufacturing engineering. Despite using common suppliers for a majority of parts to leverage economies of scale, both companies are utilizing unique controls and calibrations to tailor the shift feel of the transaxle to fit their brand characteristics.

Improved NVH and Refinemen

The elimination of noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) was a particular target for the development team. Extensive use of CAE modeling on the transaxle case built a solid housing for the transaxle components.

Engineers used computer-aided analysis to determine exactly where strengthening ribs needed to be added to the casing to minimize radiated noise and vibration. CAE modeling also was used to add thickness to the case in appropriate areas for added strength.

In addition, the transaxle’s three simple planetary gear sets are designed for robustness and use low-pinion pitch line velocities to reduce noise. All gears are cut using high-precision CNC hobbing, grinding and honing machines. The transfer and final drive gears are hard-treated for strength, and subsequently ground and honed to provide a more precise fit, thus reducing gear whine.

The 6F also features the first use of an off-axis pump for Ford. This package-enabler takes up much less space in the transaxle. Package efficiency is further enabled by the pump’s chain drive. The pump porting also was optimized to improve NVH.

The 6F uses only plate clutches for each shift to deliver quiet, smooth shifts throughout the entire ratio span. In addition, the 6F uses a Ford proprietary control strategy that uses powerful adaptive algorithms. The 6F provides fast, responsive shifts throughout the operating range that are smooth yet crisp, which delivers an invigorating driving experience to the customer.

Factory Tested for Quality

To ensure the best possible shift quality, each 6F transaxle is bench tested at Ford’s Van Dyke (Mich.) Transaxle Plant. There, the transaxle build quality is verified, detecting even minute variations in the manufacturing process.

Using a unique patent pending process, software programmed into the 6F’s electronic controller individually trims and characterizes all solenoids and clutches to eliminate the variances that would normally lead to changes in shift feel, producing smooth, precisely controlled shifts that improve durability and customer satisfaction.
Next Generation Ford V-6 Engine

To power one in five vehicles by end of decade

New 250 hp 3.5-liter V-6 key to Ford’s future, powering one in five of the company’s North American products by the end of the decade
New engine offers better performance, fuel economy and emissions
New V-6 debuts next year on the Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator crossover utility vehicles
Mated to new 6-speed automatic for up to a 7 percent improvement in highway fuel economy
Engine designed with the future in mind – capable of super-clean PZEV emissions, hybrids, direct-injection and turbocharging

Ford today unveiled its new 3.5-liter V-6 engine, a more powerful and cleaner engine that eventually will be under the hood of one in five Ford products in North America, including the new Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator crossover utility vehicles (CUVs) debuting next year.

“Our new 3.5-liter V-6 is a key component in Ford’s global powertrain strategy, which is to provide what customers want, when they want it,” says Barb Samardzich, Ford vice president of Powertrain Operations. “This powertrain is an innovative solution to answering the call for better fuel efficiency, more refinement, more power and clean emissions, without any sacrifices.”

The new engine will be mated to a new 6-speed automatic transaxle in the Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator. The combination will deliver improved fuel economy of up to 7 percent and improved sustained acceleration compared with a typical 4-speed automatic.

Power in a Compact, Modern Package

Ford’s new V-6 produces 250 horsepower and 240 pound-feet of torque with a 3.5-liter displacement unit with a height and width that is the same as Ford’s smaller Duratec 30 V-6. This enables Ford to install the engine in a wide variety of current and future products.

In developing the new engine, Ford engineers targeted excellent performance, fuel economy and low exhaust emissions. In addition, engineers designed the engine to work together in harmony with Ford’s new 6F 6-speed automatic. By analyzing the transaxle and engine together, noise, vibration and harshness characteristics of the powertrain were optimized to ensure a quiet, trouble-free driving experience.

The all-new 3.5-liter V-6 architecture provides significant flexibility to incorporate additional engine technologies. The 3.5-liter engineering team included extra provisions to make upgrades relatively simple. These upgrades include such potential features as hybrid capability, gasoline direct injection and direct-injection turbo charging.

A Solid Foundation – Durability and NVH

Every world-class engine starts with a solid foundation. To optimize the base engine structure to provide outstanding durability and NVH, the lower-end design of the 3.5-liter engine features a forged-steel, fully counterweighted crankshaft with induction-hardened journals, fractured-split, powder metal-forged connecting rods and high-temperature alloy, cast aluminum pistons. These components are housed in a High Pressure Diecast (HPDC) aluminum cylinder block featuring six-bolt mains with cast in cast-over iron liners.

The engine’s cylinder block design represents the first application of a high-pressure die-cast block for a V-configuration engine for Ford Motor Company. Ford chose HPDC over more conventional semi-permanent and sand casting processes because:

Reduced raw material requirements (lower weight than if designed for conventional sand casting)
Tighter casting process control capability
Better and more consistent casting qualities
Elimination of reliance on casting processes that have byproducts requiring strict environmental controls
Reduction of expensive post-casting processing (cleaning, heat treating, machining and assembly) requirements
Ford deployed extensive CAE modeling to reduce lead-time, optimize die design and simulate critical process parameters to help ensure a consistent, robust casting.
High Airflow, Optimized Combustion – Performance, Fuel Economy and Emissions

The 3.5-liter V-6’s upper-end was designed as a system, all the way from the throttle body to the exhaust manifolds, to create the optimum flow for peak power and a broad torque curve. CAE analysis was used to fine-tune each component to deliver the required airflow without the need for intake flaps or butterfly valves in the system. Advanced throttle-control software enables precise tuning of engine response to fit the character of each vehicle application while setting the engine to run at its peak efficiency for optimal fuel economy.

The 3.5-liter V-6 uses a compact, lightweight dual-overhead cam valvetrain for peak power capability and smooth operation at high RPMs. The engine also incorporates intake variable cam timing (iVCT) to optimize valve timing for a smooth idle, optimal part-load driving and an impressively broad torque curve with good power. The iVCT system uses a hydraulically actuated spool valve that can rotate the intake camshafts up to 40 degrees within a half-second. A low-friction, roller-chain cam drive contributes to fuel efficiency.

Optimized Cylinder Head Produced with Flexible Machining

The aluminum cylinder heads in Ford’s new V-6 are designed for high airflow and optimized combustion to support performance, fuel economy and low emissions. CAE was used extensively to develop the airflow and combustion system performance for this cylinder head design. This efficient combustion is enhanced by incorporating a centrally located spark plug and a high 10.3:1 compression ratio. The cylinder heads also were designed to accommodate fuel-efficient technology upgrades such as gasoline direct injection.

Low Emissions Capability

Ford’s new 3.5-liter engine is PZEV capable right out of the box. Careful design consideration for the combustion system and catalysts create an engine that can meet stringent emissions standards without the need for expensive add-on technology.

“The 3.5-liter V-6 is capable of achieving PZEV certification by delivering low cold-start emissions and enabling rapid catalyst light-off, which is a significant accomplishment for a larger displacement V-6 engine,” says Tom McCarthy, engine systems manager for the 3.5-liter V-6 engine program. This is accomplished with low heat-loss exhaust manifolds and close-coupled catalysts for fast light off during cold start. Optimized fuel injector targeting minimizes cold-start emissions before the catalysts reach operating temperature.

3.5-Liter V-6 and 6F Automatic Technical Specifications

ENGINE

Type
3.5L DOHC 24-valve V-6

Manufacturing Location
Lima Engine Plant, Ohio

Configuration
60-degree V-6, aluminum block and heads

Intake Manifold
Composite, slit plenum

Exhaust Manifold
Cast iron

Crankshaft
Forged steel

Redline
6700 rpm

Throttle Body
65mm, electronic

Valvetrain
DAMB, 4 valves per cylinder, intake variable camshaft timing

Valve Diameter
Intake: 37mm Exhaust: 31 mm

Pistons
High temperature cast aluminum alloy with low-friction coated skirts, low-tension rings

Connecting Rods
Cracked-powder metal

Ignition
Pencil coil

Bore x Stroke
3.6 x 3.4 in/92.5 x 86.7 mm

Displacement
213 cu in/3.496 cc

Compression Ratio
10:03:01

Horsepower
250 @ 6250 rpm (estimated)

Horsepower per Liter
71.5 (estimated)

Torque
240 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm (estimated)

Recommended Fuel
87 Octane

Fuel Capacity
20 gallons

Fuel Injection
Sequential multiport fuel injection

Oil Capacity
5.5 quarts, with filter

Recommended Oil
GF4, 5W-20

TRANSMISSION

Type
6-Speed Automatic

Gear Ratios


1st
4.484:1

2nd
2.872:1

3rd
1.842:1

4th
1.414:1

5th
1.000:1

6th
0.742:1

REV
00034














...
Old 11-10-2005, 05:31 PM
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Look what Nissan started - everyone will have their 3.5 L V6 to whore out in all kinds of vehicles.
Old 11-10-2005, 05:35 PM
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The engine produces 250 horsepower and 240 pound-feet of torque in its CUV applications. It uses a dual-overhead cam valvetrain for peak power capability and smooth operation at high RPM.

Ummm, I wish Ford all the best - but 250hp out of 3.5 litres is less than impressive. Another day late and proverbial dollar short from Dearborn...


Honda, Nissan and Toyota all produce 300hp or more from the same displacment.
Old 11-10-2005, 05:45 PM
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Not bad for a ford, but got a question; is this still a pushrod??
-Justin
Old 11-10-2005, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by importtuner
Not bad for a ford, but got a question; is this still a pushrod??
-Justin
Don't think so.
Old 11-10-2005, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by importtuner
Not bad for a ford, but got a question; is this still a pushrod??
-Justin
NO. It's a 3.5L DOHC engine.
Old 11-10-2005, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by PistonFan
Ummm, I wish Ford all the best - but 250hp out of 3.5 litres is less than impressive. Another day late and proverbial dollar short from Dearborn...
This engine is capable of way more than that. This enigne will be rated for very low emissions out the box, and it runs on regular gase. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford may wind up tuning it for different outputs depending on the application in the future.
Old 11-10-2005, 11:53 PM
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There's no need for 300hp in a crossover at that price level.
Old 11-11-2005, 12:01 AM
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its about time.

edit: im impressed
Old 11-15-2005, 01:00 PM
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That looks like an impressive offering from Ford.

Kudos to them.

Now put that bitch in a Focus and hold on tight!
Old 11-15-2005, 01:22 PM
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Finally.
Old 11-15-2005, 02:14 PM
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Finally indeed. Sticky it is...
Old 11-15-2005, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PistonFan
Ummm, I wish Ford all the best - but 250hp out of 3.5 litres is less than impressive. Another day late and proverbial dollar short from Dearborn...


Honda, Nissan and Toyota all produce 300hp or more from the same displacment.
I am sure it will make more for their cars.
Old 11-15-2005, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by biker
Look what Nissan started - everyone will have their 3.5 L V6 to whore out in all kinds of vehicles.
i doubt that will happen, they will use it a lot but if i'm not mistaken every car Nissan/Infiniti, save for the Sentra, comes in 3.5 trim, now that whoring....

Last edited by stangg172004; 11-15-2005 at 04:21 PM.
Old 11-15-2005, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by stangg172004
i doubt that will happen, they will use it a lot but if i'm not mistaken every car Nissan/Infiniti, save for the Sentra, comes in 3.5 trim, now that whoring....
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury have a lot of vehicles this could be used in. From the Fusion all the way up to SUVs and F series trucks. I wouldn't be surprised to see this thing in everything but the Focus.
Old 01-04-2006, 07:35 PM
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Ford inflatable seat belt **Update (page 1)**

http://detroit-auto-show.autoblog.com/

Originally Posted by Ford
Inflatable seat belts and other safety concepts from Ford
Posted Dec 30th 2005 12:00PM by John Neff
Filed under: Detroit Auto Show, Trends

The Blue Oval keeps pumping out press releases in anticipation of the Detroit auto show, and we’re more than happy to bring them to you. Today’s release details two more Ford concepts, this time in the area of second-row occupant safety.

The first safety concept is inflatable safety belts, a.k.a. seat belts with air bags. Ford has developed a small, tubular-shaped inflatable bag that could be incorporated into the shoulder and lap belts of back seat passengers. The inflated bags would spread the force of an impact across a larger contact patch and lessen the chance of injury, as well as act as a sort of pretensioner to ensure the belts were positioned correctly before the force of a crash was transmitted to the occupant.

The second safety concept is applying Ford’s BeltMinder system to back seat passengers. The current system goes above and beyond the federally mandated safety belt reminder chiming system by chiming and flashing a warning lamp for six seconds every thirty seconds for up to five minutes. When applied to rear passengers the system would notify the driver when a back seat passenger isn’t buckled up, annoying him or incessantly until the offender straps in.
Old 01-04-2006, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by heyitsme

what next? inflatable dolls in the back seat for that fat guy at ford?
Old 01-05-2006, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by heyitsme

The photo chop potential...
Old 04-13-2006, 02:35 PM
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http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/060413-3.htm

Ford's new 3.5-litre V6 rated at 265 hp on regular grade fuel

Dearborn, Michigan - Ford's new 3.5-litre V6 engine is now officially rated at 265 horsepower on 87-octane regular grade fuel, announced the company. The engine will power the new Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX crossovers and the Lincoln MKZ sedan when they debut this Fall.

Some competitors require more expensive mid-grade or premium fuels to achieve their top ratings, said the company.

The horsepower and torque figures were obtained using the Society of Automotive Engineer's new J1349 standard, with an official third party witness present.

The engine achieves impressive horsepower and torque without complex devices used by the competition like variable intake geometry, exhaust variable cam timing (VCT) or variable flow exhaust systems.

Ford's new V-6 engine was designed to be compatible with direct injection and turbocharged direct injection technology, which leaves open the possibility of even higher power and torque output in the future.
Old 04-13-2006, 04:20 PM
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to Ford for producing a 3.5L making 265HP without premium gas.
Old 04-13-2006, 10:28 PM
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We are in the minority wanting 300hp. Most people could care less. At the very least ford is making a serious effort to improve their line up.

Originally Posted by PistonFan
Ummm, I wish Ford all the best - but 250hp out of 3.5 litres is less than impressive. Another day late and proverbial dollar short from Dearborn...


Honda, Nissan and Toyota all produce 300hp or more from the same displacment.
Old 04-13-2006, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PistonFan
Ummm, I wish Ford all the best - but 250hp out of 3.5 litres is less than impressive. Another day late and proverbial dollar short from Dearborn...


Honda, Nissan and Toyota all produce 300hp or more from the same displacment.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the new 3.5L V6 engine from Ford with DI and designed to run on premium producing more then 300HP.

BTW, I hope they use this engine on the base Mustang when they refresh it during it's mid-cycle.
Old 04-23-2006, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DownUnder
I wouldn't be surprised to see the new 3.5L V6 engine from Ford with DI and designed to run on premium producing more then 300HP.

BTW, I hope they use this engine on the base Mustang when they refresh it during it's mid-cycle.
this wouldnt be a bad idea, except that they'd probably have to make a 5spd manual for it at the very least if its going to be in a mustang... even the v6 needs one too!

Also, a 6 speed auto in a mustang sounds like a bit too much... but maybe thats just me.

Either way, its about time Ford started stepping up in this category...
Old 04-23-2006, 05:52 PM
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I have to say, the V6 market is looking really good. Toyotas 3.5L V6 gets 21/28 in an SUV..if Ford of all companies can match that, wow.
Old 04-23-2006, 07:20 PM
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not that impressive. My dads caddy makes more hp than that from his V8 and uses 87 and gets 28+ mpg on the hwy
Old 04-23-2006, 09:32 PM
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Hmm, the escalade gets something near the high teens and the SRX (I think that's the letters) gets low 20s. What SUV does your dad have? I'm talking EPA also, I get over EPA in my TL-S.
Old 04-23-2006, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
not that impressive. My dads caddy makes more hp than that from his V8 and uses 87 and gets 28+ mpg on the hwy
Umm your reading comprehension is poor. V6 means 2 less cylinders, hence why it doesn't make as much power.
Old 04-23-2006, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Umm your reading comprehension is poor. V6 means 2 less cylinders, hence why it doesn't make as much power.
your comprehension is poor. What fsttyms1 is saying is that a V6 producing 265hp while runnig regular gas is no big deal, when Caddy had/has a V8 that runs on regular gas and makes more horses, yet gets good gas mileage.

Although to fsttyms1: How does the Caddy V8 do in city MPG. And I don't think that ur dad's Caddy V8 could hold a candle to the this or any modern V6 when it comes to emissions output i.e. your Caddy is likely a heavy polluter, and wouldn't meet current emissions regs. It's also probably less refined, but thats a subjective thing.
Old 04-23-2006, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by vishnus11
your comprehension is poor. What fsttyms1 is saying is that a V6 producing 265hp while runnig regular gas is no big deal, when Caddy had/has a V8 that runs on regular gas and makes more horses, yet gets good gas mileage.

Although to fsttyms1: How does the Caddy V8 do in city MPG. And I don't think that ur dad's Caddy V8 could hold a candle to the this or any modern V6 when it comes to emissions output i.e. your Caddy is likely a heavy polluter, and wouldn't meet current emissions regs. It's also probably less refined, but thats a subjective thing.
No my comprehension is fine. A V6 making 265 hp on 87 is impressive. Look within the market and do a bit of research. Ford can easily bump the hp of this engine by running a more aggressive tune/timing on 93 octane. Arguing about gas mileage of an engine not in production is a retarded arguement anyways.

The only Caddy V8 I know of that gets decent gas mileage and has over 265hp is the Northstar. My dad had one in his SLS and it didn't get 28 on the highway. I've had rental DeVille's with the Northstar and they also didn't get 28 on the highway.
Old 04-24-2006, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
No my comprehension is fine. A V6 making 265 hp on 87 is impressive. Look within the market and do a bit of research. Ford can easily bump the hp of this engine by running a more aggressive tune/timing on 93 octane. Arguing about gas mileage of an engine not in production is a retarded arguement anyways.

The only Caddy V8 I know of that gets decent gas mileage and has over 265hp is the Northstar. My dad had one in his SLS and it didn't get 28 on the highway. I've had rental DeVille's with the Northstar and they also didn't get 28 on the highway.
265hp on 87 octane isn't outstanding. Honda's existing J30 in the Accord puts out 244hp on 87 octane gas, and its a 10 year old engine that debuted in 1997, whereas this Ford V6 is "all new".
Old 04-24-2006, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by vishnus11
265hp on 87 octane isn't outstanding. Honda's existing J30 in the Accord puts out 244hp on 87 octane gas, and its a 10 year old engine that debuted in 1997, whereas this Ford V6 is "all new".
And Honda's engine makes considerably less torque, so again what was your point? This engine was developed to make more power in the future. For now, 265 hp in a family sedan is very competitive.
Old 04-24-2006, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
And Honda's engine makes considerably less torque, so again what was your point? This engine was developed to make more power in the future. For now, 265 hp in a family sedan is very competitive.
Agreed. 265HP in this class is near the top of the field, and as you said, has great torque figures. The smartest thing Ford did was design this engine to accept DI, etc., so that it could be used for higher HP (depending on the model it's put in) in the future. It show's Ford wasn't short sighted when creating the engine.
Old 04-24-2006, 11:40 AM
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High performance engines can be made using regular. Marketing departments for other companys might figure out the having a 300 HP+ car that runs regular might sell cars. Most consumers don't know anything about engines and could care less. For example, Lexus could easily make this move and make all other luxury companies look wasteful.
Old 04-24-2006, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Umm your reading comprehension is poor. V6 means 2 less cylinders, hence why it doesn't make as much power.
No that would be yours. I wasnt comparing it to a V8 in hp. I was comparing it to how a v8 made more hp ran on regular and achieves just as good of mileage

Originally Posted by vishnus11
your comprehension is poor. What fsttyms1 is saying is that a V6 producing 265hp while runnig regular gas is no big deal, when Caddy had/has a V8 that runs on regular gas and makes more horses, yet gets good gas mileage.

Although to fsttyms1: How does the Caddy V8 do in city MPG. And I don't think that ur dad's Caddy V8 could hold a candle to the this or any modern V6 when it comes to emissions output i.e. your Caddy is likely a heavy polluter, and wouldn't meet current emissions regs. It's also probably less refined, but thats a subjective thing.
Correct.

and its in his deville (land yacht) he does manage around 17-20 in city. Id never beleive the mileage either but ive driven it many times and it does get great mileage. and is a very smooth running engine, so on that bassis i wouldnt say its unrefined.
Old 04-24-2006, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
No that would be yours. I wasnt comparing it to a V8 in hp. I was comparing it to how a v8 made more hp ran on regular and achieves just as good of mileage
Again, poor comprehension. Show me where it lists the fuel economy of the Ford 3.5L V6. You are pulling numbers out of the air. You have no clue what the fuel economy of this engine will be, but logically a V6 with a 6 speed will get better mileage than a DeVille. FYI...My mom had a DeVille and it never got the mileage you are claiming. She drives like a grandma and never floors it either.
Old 04-24-2006, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Again, poor comprehension. Show me where it lists the fuel economy of the Ford 3.5L V6. You are pulling numbers out of the air. You have no clue what the fuel economy of this engine will be, but logically a V6 with a 6 speed will get better mileage than a DeVille. FYI...My mom had a DeVille and it never got the mileage you are claiming. She drives like a grandma and never floors it either.



Highway fuel economy is expected to be in the mid-20-mpg range.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart
Old 04-24-2006, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by vishnus11
265hp on 87 octane isn't outstanding. Honda's existing J30 in the Accord puts out 244hp on 87 octane gas, and its a 10 year old engine that debuted in 1997, whereas this Ford V6 is "all new".
Lets take a look at all of the 3.5L class engines on the market in comparable applications that are all rated on SAE J1349 rev 8/04 and see where the Ford engine truly stands.

Honda 3.5L SOHC V6: 247 hp on regular (Ridgeline)
Chrysler 3.5L SOHC V6: 250 hp on mid-grade
GM 3.6L DOHC V6: 252 hp on regular (Saturn Aura)
Nissan 3.5L DOHC V6: 255 hp on premium (2007 Maxima)
Ford 3.5L DOHC V6: 265 hp on regular
Toyota 3.5L DOHC V6: 268 hp on regular (Camry)

I excluded the German engines (Benz 3.5L DOHC, and VW 3.6L) because these are often rated on DIN which is higher than SAE, but on top of that they usually play big time games with their power figures anyways which makes them pointless to compare.

Looks like it's only really getting beat by Toyota. The Toyota is also using dual VVT vs intake only VVT for the Ford, and the Toyota also used a variable intake manifold vs a fixed geometry intake on the Ford, so you're really being unfair to call it not outstanding when in reality it's at the top of the class. There's nothing that says Ford couldn't add dual-VVT, a variable intake, higher compression, tune on premium fuel, or even direct injection to turn this thing into a monster. They're just getting started with this engine.

But it's pretty lame to compare engines just based on peak horsepower anyways. The far more important things to look at are the powerband, torque curve shape, overall power delivery, NVH, and subjective things like acoustic properties and the overall character of the engine. Engines don't win or lose on Ward's because they have more HP/L than another engine of the same size. They win because they're better based on the things above, and peak horsepower and HP/L have little to do with that. For all anybody here knows, the Ford engine might have crappy low-end, feel and sound like shit, and also have crappy fuel mileage which would make it suck compared to the others. Or it could completely kick ass and blow everybody away. Only fools (or people that don't know much about engines or engine design) judge engines based on peak horsepower or HP/L figures.
Old 04-24-2006, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver™


Highway fuel economy is expected to be in the mid-20-mpg range.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart
Mid-20 mpg hwy for a 3.5L class mid-sized CUV would be highly competitive.
Old 04-24-2006, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver™


Highway fuel economy is expected to be in the mid-20-mpg range.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart
Estimated. The car isn't on the road yet. Mid 20s is good for a CUV. I've never seen mid 20s in my Mom's RX(AWD)while cruising on the highway per the onboard computer.
Old 04-26-2006, 08:51 AM
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mid 20s is pretty vague, more vague than HP/L even. These are simply indicators, and considering both the HP and TQ figures of the engine at certain RPMs gives a good general indicator of engine performance. Detailed analysis will have to wait for details.

Having the U from a *UV is compelling, I took a hard look at the RAV4/V6 because of the gas mileage and power it offers. Now, if only it offered the features the overseas models had...but I digress.

I think it's significant that we're getting good engines from both Ford and GM recently, with big improvements in interiors too (though they have a long way to go still). If the rumors are true that the new MDX engine is a revision of the J series, that means Ford is ahead of Honda on engine development at this time...(ducks)...


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