gavriil

The 318 would be a fairer comparison with the 2.0 Accord. The 318 is a 2 liter 4cyl engine. In the 2.0L engine comparo, the Accord makes more power but the 3er makes more torque. The Accord should be lighter though.

Water-S

about compareing a TSX to a lower 3 series that would be fair.like the 325. However the TSX will kill it on value. grant it the 325 might a I-6 but the TSX has a highly tuned 4 popper. plus you can pocket that 10 grand difference and go put a killer sound system in the TSX. Now if you wanted to compared the new E90 330 you gotta compare it to the TL.

biker

There is no more 318 so the only comparison would be the 320. An Accord in Europe is viewed like an Acura in the US - just a bit above the main stream - same as the 3 series.

dom

What do you know, you only live there

machination

Thought barren was 'subjective'.

Your 'argument' doesn't make much sense anyway. The TL starts almost 3k higher than a 325; I should HOPE it'd have more features. But it's give and take, since the 3 comes standard with some things the TL doesnt have. If I had to take a car as-is, I'd go with the 3 and enjoy the RWD handling, free maintenance, and that extra cash saved.

Blah. It's still just a glorified accord.

machination

Im not like the typical poster here; I actually experience stuff before I trash or praise it. So yeah, I've driven both models, and I stand behind what I call it; it's typical nissan-all go and no soul or passion. And that overdone interior is flashier than what we've seen from them, but still doesnt impress me.

Sarlacc

this arguement is bunk. A 325 that is 3k lower then the TL has shit for options and cloth or leatherette. its a bare bones machine.

Make a 325 feature for feature with a TL and you are way over the price. And you want to talk about a boring souless machine. The new 325i is very unimpressive to drive.

DownUnder

machination

Mention a TL, and you're talking about just that.

Ya know, reviewers never have to call a lexus boring to drive, since that's a given, but they've called the TL boring, which must sting.

Sarlacc

I've driven the new TL plenty of times. Had one as a loaner for a day, test drives etc. I wouldnt not call this car souless by any stretch. Car feels like a honda with more torque and power...you know what it is the instant you hit the gas....how is that souless.

Lexus....how many have you driven. Yes, they are not as connected to the road as some sports luxury automakers. but they werent made to be either. I used to drive an LS400 all the time...I loved it, handles great for a car that size. An ES300...not my cup of tea, and a rx300 like it, but wish they had gotten the sportier suspension edition (silver sport? gav has/had one) There is nothing wrong with lexus...

The 325 was boring as piss, felt nothing like a bmw (i am a former 5 series owner) and just had no connection. It was not a stick shift sadly (test drive was for the gf and not me) and maybe the 330 is more spirited with the sports pkg. I've many generations of 5 series and they have this feeling, this "soul" as we keep talking about....the new 325, well I didnt know who made it...its was a cold driving experience.

lb for lb the TL is much MUCH MUCH more fun car to drive the comparably priced 325i.

You say you've driven all these cars you bashed....for what? like up the street and back? Or did you just sit behind the wheel?

machination

Question asked, question answered.

My turn...
The TL was boring as piss, felt nothing like a bmw and just had no connection. It was not a stick shift sadly. the new TL, well I didnt know who made it...its was a cold driving experience.

And what a lot of pounds the TL carries.
But whatev, that's your opinion; me myself, I see it as a big accord EX with an overrated stereo, suited for highway cruising.

Now that's dumb. If I 'just sat behind the wheel' I couldn't have driven them.

Shawn S

machination,

BMW makes a great car, but VALUE is certainly not the first thing that comes to mind.
If you want to compare cars based on VALUE, Acura will beat them up bad.

BMW may have a lower initial price, but when they still charge extra for stuff like power seats, Xenon headlights, heated seats, leather, Homelink, floor mats and a sunroof they will never compare to Honda/Acura.

A base 5-Series is actually cheaper then the new RL, but option one up comparably and you’re talking a 15,000 dollar difference.

Sarlacc

And What do you think the 3 series is becoming? You gonna try and tell me its light and nimble?

Its gotten bigger and more bloated with every iteration. I'm willing to bet the new 3 is about the same size..or even a little larger then the a 1990 5 series.

is your head really that far up your ass?

95gt

another TL vs 3 series debate.

titan

Okay. Well I repect the opinion then. But remember, it's an opinion. BMW no longer has a patent on cars with soul... Infiniti has made great strides in that department, IMO. Talk to any G owner... and the M is like a amplified 10 times... so I expect the same thing from M owners. The interior is absolutely beautiful; not overdone at all. Again, just my opinion (because I'd pick the M's interior over the 5's anyday). I guess it's whatever floats your boat. I think though, that Nissan (and by extension Infiniti) has definitely shed it's "all go and no soul or passion" image.

gavriil

That changed with the new car that just came out. A review with the Accord is probably old enough to have the previous 3er compared. The 318i then, as you know, was carrying the 2.0L 4cyl engine.

For simplicity's sake it looks like BMW has gone back to naming their new 3er according to engine displacnement again for now (in Europe at least).

The 320 is a 2.0L engine (150HP) and the 325 is a 2.5L engine (218HP). The 330 gets the "good" 3.0L engine rated at 258HP in England.

gavriil

In Europe, it's not a glorified accord. It's an Accord. Accord in Europe has differenent meaning than it has here. More premium.

gavriil

If it's awkward looking to you, that's fine. Looks and taste are subjective matters, no reason for arguing. To me they look just fine. They dont look like anything else on the road and that's a pro in my opinion. But again, subjective.

I will even give you that feeling that a brand "has soul" or not, is also subjective. To that I totally disagree though. I think during the past 3 years Infiniti started adding "soul" to their brand faster than anyone ever did.

But to say that infiniti remains "barely-refined" that is not a subjective matter. I am not sure how many infinitis you have driven as oppososed to their repsective competitors, but right now Infiniti is as refined as any luxury automaker. I dont know where you're getting that from.

gavriil

It does not make sense, or it does not make sense to you?

gavriil

Extra cash saved? From what? From not buying a 911? What car are you comparing it to?

titan

^ What I was trying to say... nicely done.

machination

Right, cause every luxury car buyer is after value.
Well, ok, at least that's one win for Acura. For all its 'value', BMW still beats them up bad in sales numbers, prestige, driving excitement, technology.....do I need to go on?

machination

Yeah ok. Opinions are like camry's; everyone has one.
That's yours and mine remains that the things do nothing for me. Driven back-to-back with BMW's that they're trying SOOO hard to be reveals they have looooooooong way to go.

machination

I dont give a shit about europe, since Im not there. In the US, it's a glorified accord. PERIOD.

But anyway, this is the same country that keeps the camry, toyota and lexus at the top of the sales chart, so taste is clearly in short supply here.

machination

For someone always throwing out how things are 'subjective' you sure try to spin your posts to sound factual.
I see all kinds of 'borrowed' cues in everyone of them, and the end result is always laughably bad, and comes across as trying way too hard.

HP and grabby brakes dont equal soul, that's what they dont get. When they create a chassis that doesnt outrun the engine and when it feels like it's one singular machine, and not a bunch of parts thrown together, they'll be onto something.

When they stop feeling like an overpriced nissan, I'll consider them refined.

machination

Yup, especially compared to the TL.

And? It's still smaller than boats like the g35.

You shouldnt ask; sounds like you could sit on your own shoulders.

Crazy Bimmer

I like this guy

biker

Sure sounds like machination is gilbo reincarnated.

titan

Ofcourse Infiniti's trying so hard to be rivals. That's been they're stated mission since the G came out. And they've succeeded, period. They're doing their best to out-BMW BMW, and it's working for them. Talk to the owners; look at the sales; consult the mags that consistently put the M on top of the heap in comparos the same way they did the G 2-3 years ago. Infiniti's turnaround has been phenomenal, and the reason's more than HP. It's the soul.

titan

Shit, you don't get anymore orginal than the FX. None of their cars look as if they're trying to hard (though the Z4 comes to mind).

Are you sure you've driven an Infiniti lately? Don't be mad because they want to be the HP leader in ever segment they compete in. And the chassis outruns the engine! Are you serious? That statement, coming from you (someone who cares less about Nissan or Infiniti) is a true testement to how great the new FM chassis really is. One thing's for sure, the chassis' not outrunning that VQ or V8. I guess in a 525i it's easy for the chassis not to outrun the engine, right?

I would have conceded that arguement 4-5 years ago, when Infiniti's lots were full of I35s and QX4s. But now?? Infiniti's chache as long elevated the status of just a loaded Nissan, and is fast approaching 100% in the full fledged majors. And now the dealerships are getting revamped? It'll take a major fuckup like the next Q not being all it should be, to break their momentum.

gavriil

Dont be redundant. You wrote PERIOD and put a period next to it

Dude, you lost the sequence of the argument. It's a fact that the TSX was derived (for lack of a better word) from the Euro Accord. Re-read the posts if needed to understand why what I wrote is relevant.

What's the matter with you?

gavriil

Wow! You are absolutely proving that something is certainly the matter with you. Note the no-smilie this time.

From the above it is obvious that:

1. you do not accept that taste is subjective
2. you have a problem with the automotive-related taste of the people in this country
3 and am I hearing a hint of personal issue on a national political level?

What's wrong with the Camry, Toyota and Lexus sir?

And which country do you live in?

gavriil

I did not spin anything. This is the NO SPIN ZONE! If you know what I mean.

But seriously...since you love rolling your eyes, how clearly do you want it writen?

HOW INFINITIs OR ANY OTHER VEHICLES LOOK IS 100% SUBJECTIVE.

Is that clear enough and free of spin to you?

dom

Not even Gilbo was this annoying.

gavriil

See you are replying to something I noted as subjective (soul) with specifics. So you are proving once again that to you, soul can be measured in a very specific way. Witch is 100% wrong in my opinion and I am sure in the opinion of 99% of all car enthusiasts.

Although completely irrelevant your above statement is to soul, let me comment on your (again, irrelevant to soul or soulless) comments:


I dont know which Infinitis you're referring to with all of the above.

I just test-drove and wrote about the G35C 6MT two days ago. So I have a fresh opinion on that experience (although it was the second experience with that particular infiniti).

If you think that the 300HP engine outruns the chassis, you either live on a different planet, have driven the wrong car, or you have absolutely no ability of judging a given vehicle's driving character.

Ditto for the "grabby" brakes.

Finally, are you annoyed by the HP output of Infinitis? Why? Because BMW cannot match it? Because all I see is BMW trying to keep up with the so called HP wars, to no avail. Wait. I know your response to this one. I can hear it already. "Ultimate driving machines are not about peak HP but..." Or something like that right?

gavriil

Same answer as above about you living on a different planet or have driven the wrong car/s or you have no idea about judging a vehicle's dynamics.

gavriil

TL = 3491 lbs

06 330 = 3417 lbs.

I'd say "your" BMW is about as fat as the TL.

gavriil

Length:

06 330 = 178.2 in.

05 G35 Sedan = 186.5 in.

Why is the boat G longer? Let's see:

Wheel Base

330= 108.7 in.
G35 = 112.2 in.

What does that mean? Hmmm... Let's see the translation of the above and how it reflects reality:

Interior 3 Series G35
Front Headroom 37.4 in. 40.1 in.
Rear Headroom 37.1 in. 37.9 in.
Front Shoulder Room 55.4 in. 56.4 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 55.1 in. 55.5 in.
Front Hip Room Not Available 52.2 in.
Rear Hip Room Not Available 54.1 in.
Front Leg Room 41.5 in. 43.6 in.
Rear Leg Room 34.6 in. 33.6 in.

Ah! Because the G35 offers more room in the front and the rear ON ALL RESPECTS than the 330.

Yet, it's a boat. OK. Like I said, different planet and zero judgement.

Sarlacc

Does it smell like burnt hair in here...or is that gavriil owning someone?

gavriil

I am not even trying. This guy is making his case for me.