Infamous425

i finally saw a couple of new 3-series on the road today. they look a lot better in person than in pix. more masculine, classy yet still sporty. but i still havent seen the interior.

heyitsme

Think the 3 manages to keep a certain number of sales due to variety of models- m3 , awd 3, coupe 3, 325, 330, wagon 3, etc. Head to head, 330i vs the rest of the 30k segment shows the car isn't head of the class as far as winning over customers- meanwhile other brands are showing large sales of their luxury sedan, we'll see if the new 3 can break through.

All 12 3-series models made up 6,994 sales for april. The 330i sedan sold 820 units. The cts sedan sold 6,182, almost more than the entire 3 lineup. Think all this new competition is definately having an effect on BMW, to a lesser extent Japanese luxury brands are effected because they have a high content/value factor.

The g35 coupe broke into another segment where BMW 3 had no competition. Now there will be the lexus coupe which I think will pick up in sales pretty quick just due to the fact its a great looking car.

The luxury segment is getting to the point where any car can drop from the top just as quick as it got there due to all the great competition.

heyitsme

Tailights look pretty bland.

AcuraGT-3

lmao at those countries, sounds like the coalition of forces that Bush got.....

You cannot seriously argue the 3 is class leading. EVERY car maker goes after the 3 or states they went after the 3. For years it was #1 and still is considered the sports sedan to have. The CTS and G35 has done nothing, 3 sales are still very strong even with a what, 7 year old design? The CTS and G35 has helped their brands but not hurt BMW at all.

AcuraGT-3

THANK YOU.

heyitsme

Think ur out of your mind if you think car companies go after a brand that sells 800 units of a car. Just cause ur still caught up in this ultimate driving machine marketing doesn't mean everyone else is. 3 series sales are as strong as a losing brand can be.

heyitsme

2nd the Acura TSX has passed by the 325i in sales which accounts for the majority of 3 series sales. For a completely new luxury vehicle to pass by the "best" on the first try is almost amazing, or in reality, about time.

MSZ

biker

But the sales have not fallen with the 325 - it's just that they have not grown to match some of the competition. The TL (which in price is closer to the 325 than the TSX) sells twice as much as the TSX. Like I said, BMW will continue to sell the 8-10K a month - I didn't say it won't get passed in sales by others (TSX+TL already has). Some of the extra sales the others are getting are coming from outside the segment or others in the segment - not out of BMWs share.

I can predict that the IS250 will win some magazine comparos vs. the 325 (as will the IS350 vs. the 330) but it still won't be regarded as the "better" car - well at least not for foreseable future.

gavriil

Folks the 3-series segment (whatver you wonna call it) is going through a transition currently. The 3 was the king in the USA in that segment because it was pretty much on its own. During the past 5 years, not only newcomers entered, but also exisiting competition tuned and designed their cars to more closley match the characteristics of the 3 because it simply sold better than everyone.

What I am trying to say is, the fact that we are going through a huge transition in that particular segment, makes it very difficult to discuss who won and who lost and who is winning or losing. The sure thing is that 5 years from now, the segment will look nothing like it did 5 years ago and look mostly different than it does now.

machination

Hardly. Use just a little bit of common sense for once, k? Even idiots like bush can deduce the 3 is going to have low numbers a month before the new model is rolled out: "This decrease was due primarily to the successful build-out of the 2005 3 Series sedans, in preparation for the launch of its successor, resulting in lower inventory of these high volume models."

Do yourself a favor and look up the word 'fact'. Lexus has never made anything remotely great looking (if you look up the word, you'll know whether that's a fact or opinion).

Again, with such low inventory, a lot of cars passed the 325, not just the acura accord. But sit pretty and wait til the E90 is fully stocked and watch how many fly off the lots.

biker

If I didn't know better, the above sounds just like something gilbo would say.....

95gt

my guess is that gilbo is also an ass

dom

But Gilbo would never say anything negative about Lexus. I'm not sure what he loves more, Lexus or BMW.

Anyway, saw a new 3 yesterday. All I can say Looks far better on the road than it does in pics.

MSZ

I saw 3 E90s last week. I can't say I like the styling but it looks better than the pics.

Belzebutt

I would be more explicit than that, I think the 3-series is losing some mind-share bit by bit at the expense of others. For a long time it was either 3-series or Audi A4 if you wanted something less sporty but also German in the same size.

Now we got lot of choices each with their own winning characteristics. You can bet that the 3-series is not really the dream car for as many people now, even though many people still buy it as a status symbol. Only a matter of time before some other cars also become status symbols based on their growing reputation.

AcuraGT-3

Look, the TSX is a nice fun car but its amazing some of you SWEAR its 3 competiton. So lets see
1. In Europe, its an Accord.
2. In Europe, it is NOT 3 series competiton. There has never been a comparison against the 3.
3. In America, the 3 is I-6 and RWD. The TSX is I-4 and FWD.
4. In America, the TSX has NEVER been in a comparision against the 3 in magazines. The TL is what is in comparisons against the 3.
5. The TSX has been pitted against SAAB, the I-4 C-class and the Suburu Legacy.

And OF COURSE it will sell more, the 325 production was cut back (as someone stated) and the TSX is THOUSANDS cheaper.

The TSX is a 27k car. The new E90 325 is a 31k car TO START. Of course the TSX is loaded, the BMW is barren (which does show the huge "VALUE" the TSX offers).

The 3 never really lost sales. The IS lost tons of sales and it looks Lexus is dead serious this time around. The C-class lost sales as did SAAB and others.

And I do agree, for the first time that I CAN remember (and other guys like Gavrlil) BMW no longer has a stranglehold as to IMAGE and WINS in magazine comparos. I think all the new cars are pretty damn ugly.

And sales STILL continue to soar. DOn't underestimate BRAND and PRESTIGE. Its what drives a lot of the "LUXURY" segment.

biker

You're wrong on #2. Unlike the US, the lesser models of 3 series (320) and Accord Executive are in the same price range. Both are 4 cyl models.

Sarlacc

he is wrong on #4 also if memory serves correctly. it went up against the is300 and the 325

machination

Yes it has. Automobile compared them and others (with the maxima right where it belongs-dead last) last year sometime.

The 3 is hardly barren, but since it doesnt start life as an Accord, it doesnt have the advantage of clearance-rack pricing.

Of course, and sales are only going to get better, as long as lexus remains staid and boring isolation chambers on wheels, infiniiti remains barely-refined, soulless and awkward-looking, and Acura remains conservative and thinly-disguised Hondas.

MSZ

I bet you have never read ANY European magazines. European Accord is a DIRECT competitor of the German entry luxury sedans. And it beats them badly in almost all departments(in the same price range i-4 models)

Crazy Bimmer

Dunno about that, them germans love their own cars. I never seen a euro mag where the TSX came on top.

dom

From England.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=Volvo+S60R

I'm not here to argue that the TSX is better than the 3 or any other car for that matter but its obviously highly underated in these parts.

Better lap times than an S60R.

Crazy Bimmer

I eat my own words

titan

Are you serious? Have you been in the new M, or driven one lately? Won't argue on the Acura, because the new RL's greenhouse and glass is just line our Accords, and the headlamps are extremely close to the Odyssey's.

gavriil

I disagree with that.

In Europe the 3 is not perceived as much of a..."premium" product as it is in the USA. Mostly because of the dinky engines offered there. Most 3s there are either 318s or 320s. So the Accord can absolutely be compared with the 3 in Europe. It will lose, but it (the Accord) is more relevant (with the 3) in Europe, than it is in the USA market.

gavriil

Can you rephrase that? I am not sure what you mean.

gavriil

I am not sure of a comparo of a 3 against the TSX (although I would not be surprised to see the TSX against the 325i, but there has been a comparo between the Accord V6 Coupe vs the CLK320. That's not to say people will cross-shop the two, but a particular and very specific point was trying to be made by the article.

dom

Show me proof of a Accord (TSX) losing to a 318 or 320 in a comapro.

We have the 320 here in Canada and no way in hell it can possibly beat a TSX in a head to head. Handling maybe better but in every other aspect its no contest.

gavriil

That's subjective. It's barren when compared to a TL's equippment without any options added (the 3 that is).

It starts as an Accord for Europe. Where the Accord's market positioning is very different than what it is in the USA. The Accord is positioned as more of a premium product in Europe. Here as we all know, it's mainstream.

dom

Automobile magazine tested several sport sedans in the summmer of 04. Included were the 325, 9-3 Aero, IS300, Maxima, A4, TSX, Mazda 6 and a few more that I can't remember. Performance wise the TSX didn't do all that well in acceleration but it won the test regardless.

gavriil

Overall I am under the impression that the Euro Accord will mostly lose in a comparo with a comparably engined/priced 3er. If I am wrong, even more power to my argument.

Come to think of it...again...if the Accord loses it would lose by very very little.

gavriil

I believe it. Mags love the TSX overall. It must be a great offering. I have never driven one, but when sat inside, I was very impressed. I kept telling myself, "look what one can buy these days with $25K!!!"

gavriil

Although impressive, this is a pretty unfair comparo when one looks at the prices and the power.

What we need to find are tests of the 2.0 Accord with the 320 or 318 3er. Let me look.

dom

Gav, how is that article unfair? Its comparing the TSX against much more expensive and much more powerful cars.

gavriil

A little bit of proof here

gavriil

That's what I am saying. It's unfair because the Type S cant be compred with the S4. They are not in the same league.

dom

Yes, yet the writers prefer the handling feel of the TSX. Thats gotta say something.

gavriil

No doubt. No article was show the TSX worse in all measures with the 3er or better in all measures than the 3er. The point is, which do they prefer overall when they compare.

dom

Hmmm, Deisels. And the Accord is 20HP down. Like I said, handling wise not many cars can touch a BMW and the TSX is no exception. I'd like to see a Accord vs 320 or 318 head to head comparo.

The 320 with its 166HP Inline 6 starts at 35K here in Canada. Equipped like the TSX its rougly 5 to 8k more. Hardly a comparison IMO.

I'm wondering if Canada will continue to get the 320 with the new 3?