BMW: 3-Series News
12-10-2018, 10:25 AM
#3761
Moderator
Leaves your options down to Mercedes, VW, Volvo, Subaru & Buick; if you want a new wagon.
Mercedes or Volvo would probably be my top picks, of what's left.
Mercedes or Volvo would probably be my top picks, of what's left.
12-10-2018, 11:30 AM
#3762
Team Owner
The new C Class has wagons here? I have not seen 1 till this day.,.
12-10-2018, 11:45 AM
#3763
Moderator
Only E-Wagons in the US.
IIRC:
Mercedes E-Estate
Volvo V60/V90/XC
VW GSW/Alltrack
Buick Tour-X
Subaru Outback
Only options available, new, in the US.
The following users liked this post:
oonowindoo (12-10-2018)
12-10-2018, 11:58 AM
#3764
Team Owner
I think Mercedes and Buick to kill them models soon. Get it while you can.
Actually maybe only Volvo and Subaru wagons will survive due to their reputation.
Actually maybe only Volvo and Subaru wagons will survive due to their reputation.
12-10-2018, 12:43 PM
#3765
Moderator
Good odds on that.I recall my salesman at MB telling me they would have to custom order any E wagons going forward. I think they only have 1 in their inventory.
With GM killing off a few product lines, I could see the TourX getting the axe as well.
Can't imagine the Outback going anywhere. 50/50 on the VW wagons.
12-10-2018, 12:57 PM
#3766
Ex-OEM King
Outback has already been confirmed for next gen in the US launching next year. That said, it's far less wagon-ey than others. A lot of wagons are special order only at this point too.
12-10-2018, 01:54 PM
#3767
Team Owner
G20 M340i X drives will start at $57k.
F30 340i X drive with M sport starts is around $51k
You would assume G20 will have more standard features to justify the huge jump in starting MSRP.... Nope... almost the same standard features as F30 340 with M sport.
except: M sport brake ($600), M diff ($1000), But they removed the Standard HK audio as standard ($800)
So yah... looks like G20 M340 will not be my next car..... since the car will probably be around 70k with the way i wanted it.
F30 340i X drive with M sport starts is around $51k
You would assume G20 will have more standard features to justify the huge jump in starting MSRP.... Nope... almost the same standard features as F30 340 with M sport.
except: M sport brake ($600), M diff ($1000), But they removed the Standard HK audio as standard ($800)
So yah... looks like G20 M340 will not be my next car..... since the car will probably be around 70k with the way i wanted it.
12-10-2018, 02:05 PM
#3768
The Third Ball
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G20 M340i was bit a "meh" for me at the auto show. Maybe because it was in black and kind of at the back of the display. But all the other new designs looked fantastic..the g20 looked out of place. I need to see it in a brighter color and outside in natural light.
12-10-2018, 04:55 PM
#3769
Ex-OEM King
G20 M340i X drives will start at $57k.
F30 340i X drive with M sport starts is around $51k
You would assume G20 will have more standard features to justify the huge jump in starting MSRP.... Nope... almost the same standard features as F30 340 with M sport.
except: M sport brake ($600), M diff ($1000), But they removed the Standard HK audio as standard ($800)
So yah... looks like G20 M340 will not be my next car..... since the car will probably be around 70k with the way i wanted it.
F30 340i X drive with M sport starts is around $51k
You would assume G20 will have more standard features to justify the huge jump in starting MSRP.... Nope... almost the same standard features as F30 340 with M sport.
except: M sport brake ($600), M diff ($1000), But they removed the Standard HK audio as standard ($800)
So yah... looks like G20 M340 will not be my next car..... since the car will probably be around 70k with the way i wanted it.
12-10-2018, 04:59 PM
#3770
Team Owner
^ another reason to get an F80 M3/M4 right now with good incentive and 6mt....
12-11-2018, 10:37 AM
#3771
Ex-OEM King
12-12-2018, 06:12 AM
#3772
Race Director
I understand now what must keep Elon Musk awake at night. Or Apple’s Tim Cook, and certainly the late Steve Jobs –- really any executive with a flagship that dominates its market.
They fear the inevitable day the competition finally catches up. The day their standard-bearer becomes ... standard.
That it took a long, spirited drive in the 2020 BMW 330i to truly absorb this revelation says a lot about the state of sports sedans today. After all, the 3-Series has long served as a beacon –- it’s why a lot of us are here, voraciously reading about cars, obsessing over specifications and debating handling qualities. BMW’s compact 3 has served as a benchmark machine across generations, for many the initial revelation that all cars are not created equal and that those uppity Germans were really on to something.
Those of you fortunate enough to be raised on BMWs have been in on the secret for a long time; those whose parents drove Hondas and Chevrolets were often introduced to the concept of handling balance through a friend or neighbor’s 3-Series, or the purchase of a ratty one in the used-car market. My first was a 1982 320is, aka E21, bought in the late 1980s with 135,000 miles on the clock. It was slow even for the era, but the poise and solidity of that high-mileage Bimmer left a lasting impression, just as its successors have on generations of driving fans.
But then came the stumbles. Arguments rage about the E46 generation, which went out of production in 2006, being the last true 3-Series; about its successor, known as the E90, being too emotionless and having lost some of its driving engagement, flaws only partially mitigated on the current F30. I can see arguments on both sides, but I also know the 2018 330i I drove a few months ago delivered a familiar magical balance of power and tip-toes handling with an unmistakable sense of heft. The current 3-Series still has it, even if “it” has evolved with the times. Of greater significance is that competitors like the Mercedes C-Class, Audi A4 and Genesis G70 have re-created the magic, each blending it with its own unique character.
So what does the new G20 generation BMW 3-Series bring to the table? Looming large over the proceedings is what it doesn’t: a stick shift. The absence of a manual transmission option on U.S.-market 3s -- the first time that’s ever happened -- is concrete evidence of the end of an era. Most buyers don’t care, and the automatic is excellent, but it’s additional evidence of a car that’s capitulating to market trends rather than leading by example.
Minus the manual, much of the G20 3-Series powertrain story remains familiar: The 330i will continue to use a 2.0-liter turbocharged four, now with 255 hp (a 7-hp bump) and 295 lb-ft of torque (a 37-lb-ft bump), good for a 0-60-mph sprint of 5.6 seconds. Gone, however, is the 340i -- the only I6 car for America is the M340i, which makes a stout 382 hp (up 62 ponies) and 369 lb-ft of torque (up 39 lb-ft) from its TwinPower single-turbo 3.0-liter six. That combo is good for 4.2 seconds to 60 mph -- and keep in mind we’re not even talking the eventual M3 here.
Both get an eight-speed automatic transmission, which BMW says delivers faster shifts, plus launch control, and, when coupled with navigation, adaptive shifting for the route. In other words, if the nav system sees a hill coming up, or a twisty mountain road, it will adjust transmission shifting accordingly. It also helps moderate the auto stop/start system to keep the engine running when there’s a need to get back on the gas quickly -- think roundabouts and U-turns.
BMW’s xDrive all-wheel-drive system remains optional with either engine; it’s biased to the rear wheels in normal driving and can send up to 100 percent of the power rearward when necessary. It also works with the adaptive shifting and navigation systems, helping it predict when power is needed and where it should be sent.
You want safety, the 3-Series has it: Adaptive cruise control with stop-and-go, lane departure warning, blind-spot detection, rear collision protection and cross-traffic alert. The available Driving Assistant Professional package adds steering and lane-keeping assistant with side collision avoidance. There’s a completely hands-free low-speed autonomous mode, and the 3-Series can park itself and remember the last 50 yards driven, letting it reverse itself out of a tight spot. All you have to do is regulate the speed.
The BMW 3-Series remembers the last 50 yards you drove and can reverse the car following the same path. You control the brake.
Finally, since talking to your car is something the Germans seem convinced we want to do, the 3-Series comes with a “digital assistant” that responds to questions after saying “hey, BMW,” or in my experience, just “BMW.” Yes, it’s always listening, and no, it can’t figure out how to do 90 percent of the things you ask it to do. Being able to speak a navigation destination is nice, and you can verify that your oil isn’t low, but the system otherwise comes off as a totally pointless bit of tech fluff.
Of course, the car has also grown: The 2019 3-Series is longer than its predecessor by 2.9 inches, wider by 0.6 inch and taller by 0.5 inch. The wheelbase has been extended by 1.6 inches, and both the front and rear track have been widened as well, translating to more interior space. Of greater importance to the enthusiast driver, the 3 maintains its 50/50 weight balance, and body rigidity is up 25 percent thanks to extra aluminum and high-strength steel.
Rigid cannot translate to harsh, at least not in a 3-Series, and BMW employs multilink independent suspension all around. New this year are what the brand calls “lift-related dampers.” In theory, they reduce body movement over bumpy roads and in quick cornering, as well as prevent excessive body dive when driving over large bumps. Both the 330i/M340i and the eventual M3 will get this new setup as standard, though the M has a tad lower ride height. A further upgrade will be the existing -- and excellent -- adaptive M suspension system. Also optional on the 330i but standard on the M340i: M Sport brakes with two-piece rotors and the M Sport electronically locking differential.
The Execution
The car has all the right parts, but is it a 3-Series or just a modern interpretation of what used to be? I went to southern Portugal, where BMW arranged an extended road drive of the 330i along with some hot laps of the spectacular Algarve track in the M340i.
Let’s start with the volume car, the four-cylinder 330i, in our case equipped with the M Sport package. The revised and refined 2.0-liter turbo is just about perfect for anything 98 percent of 3-Series buyers are going to do; it makes a healthy growl, has lovely low-end push and isn’t afraid to wind to redline when the road allows. Yes, the manual transmission is missed here, but in sport mode using the paddles, the automatic bangs off shifts quickly.
At sporting speeds on public roads, the 3 is unflappable; part of the credit goes to those new "hydraulic stop" dampers that work on the compression stroke in the rear and the rebound stroke in front. If you’re having trouble visualizing it, just know the car settles instantly after bumps and dips, and maintains its composure in every situation I threw at it. The 3 also has excellent sight lines thanks to a lower, more horizontal dash layout than some of its luxury competitors (cough, C-Class, cough), meaning it’s easier to drive quickly; some credit also goes to the beautifully dialed-in steering that’s one of the better electric systems anywhere. There’s still not a lot of road feel through the wheel, but you know exactly where you’re putting the car.
The M340i, still wearing camo here, is an entertaining track partner
My time with the M340i was spent on-track at Algarve, meaning perfect surfaces and no real-world, daily-driver experiences. The important information is that the classic BMW straight-six is alive and well, sounds brilliant and delivers that same seamless wave of torque coveted since the days of the E21 323i. Thanks to that adaptive steering, the car goes precisely where pointed and in sport-plus mode drifts ever so slightly on track-out before tucking back in and blasting to the next apex. If there’s room for improvement, more brake (or less car) would be nice; fade wasn’t an issue in our handful of laps, but there’s definitely the sense of a lot of mass throwing itself forward when you stand on the pedal. That said, the M340i would make a perfect daily driver/occasional track toy for someone who needs more space than an M240i provides.
What about the digital ecosystem add-ons? If you want to name your car and have it respond to that name, BMW has you covered. If you prefer to say “I’m cold” rather than just reaching over and turning up the (automatic) climate control a few degrees, BMW has you covered. But the reality is that millions were spent on these tech gimmicks, euros that could have been invested in additional lightweighting, suspension tech and powertrain refinement. As good as the car is, one wonders what “hey, BMW” actually costs the enthusiast driver in lost hardware investment.
Though updated with digital screens and sleek buttons, this interior will be familiar to any 3-Series owner.
The Takeaway
The G20 deserves to be called a 3-Series, but it’s specifically not a return to the 3 of yore. That may disappoint some, but it shouldn’t surprise them. This car is a logical progression in the model’s lineage, catering to the perceived whims of today’s buyer. The 2-Series is available for those who want an E46-ish experience.
The new 3-Series isn’t alone at the top either: It’s one of several Ultimate Driving Machines available to the enthusiast, competing with the Genesis G70 for the purist’s heart. If you’re more focused on luxury and screen sizes, you’ll likely find the Mercedes C-Class more to your taste, while the Audi A4 delivers gigabytes of tech at the expense of personality.
Go find out yourself starting in March, when the 330i version goes on sale, followed shortly thereafter by the M340i, along with a plug-in hybrid 330e in about a year. Expect prices to start around $42,000.
ON SALE: March 2019 (330i); July 2019 (M340i)
BASE PRICE: $41,195 (330i)
POWERTRAIN: 2-liter turbo I4 (330i); 3-liter turbo I6 (M340i); 8-speed automatic; RWD/AWD
OUTPUT: 255 hp/295 lb-ft torque (330i); 382 hp/369 lb-ft torque (M340i)
CURB WEIGHT: 3,240 lbs (330i)
0-60 MPH: 5.6 sec/4.2 sec (mfr)
FUEL ECONOMY: TBD(EPA City/Hwy/Combined)
PROS: A sporty, well-mannered sedan with tons of technology
CONS: ...just like every other midsize entry-luxury sports sedan on the market
Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/car-rev...#ixzz5ZTG4bsxZ
They fear the inevitable day the competition finally catches up. The day their standard-bearer becomes ... standard.
That it took a long, spirited drive in the 2020 BMW 330i to truly absorb this revelation says a lot about the state of sports sedans today. After all, the 3-Series has long served as a beacon –- it’s why a lot of us are here, voraciously reading about cars, obsessing over specifications and debating handling qualities. BMW’s compact 3 has served as a benchmark machine across generations, for many the initial revelation that all cars are not created equal and that those uppity Germans were really on to something.
Those of you fortunate enough to be raised on BMWs have been in on the secret for a long time; those whose parents drove Hondas and Chevrolets were often introduced to the concept of handling balance through a friend or neighbor’s 3-Series, or the purchase of a ratty one in the used-car market. My first was a 1982 320is, aka E21, bought in the late 1980s with 135,000 miles on the clock. It was slow even for the era, but the poise and solidity of that high-mileage Bimmer left a lasting impression, just as its successors have on generations of driving fans.
But then came the stumbles. Arguments rage about the E46 generation, which went out of production in 2006, being the last true 3-Series; about its successor, known as the E90, being too emotionless and having lost some of its driving engagement, flaws only partially mitigated on the current F30. I can see arguments on both sides, but I also know the 2018 330i I drove a few months ago delivered a familiar magical balance of power and tip-toes handling with an unmistakable sense of heft. The current 3-Series still has it, even if “it” has evolved with the times. Of greater significance is that competitors like the Mercedes C-Class, Audi A4 and Genesis G70 have re-created the magic, each blending it with its own unique character.
So what does the new G20 generation BMW 3-Series bring to the table? Looming large over the proceedings is what it doesn’t: a stick shift. The absence of a manual transmission option on U.S.-market 3s -- the first time that’s ever happened -- is concrete evidence of the end of an era. Most buyers don’t care, and the automatic is excellent, but it’s additional evidence of a car that’s capitulating to market trends rather than leading by example.
Minus the manual, much of the G20 3-Series powertrain story remains familiar: The 330i will continue to use a 2.0-liter turbocharged four, now with 255 hp (a 7-hp bump) and 295 lb-ft of torque (a 37-lb-ft bump), good for a 0-60-mph sprint of 5.6 seconds. Gone, however, is the 340i -- the only I6 car for America is the M340i, which makes a stout 382 hp (up 62 ponies) and 369 lb-ft of torque (up 39 lb-ft) from its TwinPower single-turbo 3.0-liter six. That combo is good for 4.2 seconds to 60 mph -- and keep in mind we’re not even talking the eventual M3 here.
Both get an eight-speed automatic transmission, which BMW says delivers faster shifts, plus launch control, and, when coupled with navigation, adaptive shifting for the route. In other words, if the nav system sees a hill coming up, or a twisty mountain road, it will adjust transmission shifting accordingly. It also helps moderate the auto stop/start system to keep the engine running when there’s a need to get back on the gas quickly -- think roundabouts and U-turns.
BMW’s xDrive all-wheel-drive system remains optional with either engine; it’s biased to the rear wheels in normal driving and can send up to 100 percent of the power rearward when necessary. It also works with the adaptive shifting and navigation systems, helping it predict when power is needed and where it should be sent.
You want safety, the 3-Series has it: Adaptive cruise control with stop-and-go, lane departure warning, blind-spot detection, rear collision protection and cross-traffic alert. The available Driving Assistant Professional package adds steering and lane-keeping assistant with side collision avoidance. There’s a completely hands-free low-speed autonomous mode, and the 3-Series can park itself and remember the last 50 yards driven, letting it reverse itself out of a tight spot. All you have to do is regulate the speed.
The BMW 3-Series remembers the last 50 yards you drove and can reverse the car following the same path. You control the brake.
Finally, since talking to your car is something the Germans seem convinced we want to do, the 3-Series comes with a “digital assistant” that responds to questions after saying “hey, BMW,” or in my experience, just “BMW.” Yes, it’s always listening, and no, it can’t figure out how to do 90 percent of the things you ask it to do. Being able to speak a navigation destination is nice, and you can verify that your oil isn’t low, but the system otherwise comes off as a totally pointless bit of tech fluff.
Of course, the car has also grown: The 2019 3-Series is longer than its predecessor by 2.9 inches, wider by 0.6 inch and taller by 0.5 inch. The wheelbase has been extended by 1.6 inches, and both the front and rear track have been widened as well, translating to more interior space. Of greater importance to the enthusiast driver, the 3 maintains its 50/50 weight balance, and body rigidity is up 25 percent thanks to extra aluminum and high-strength steel.
Rigid cannot translate to harsh, at least not in a 3-Series, and BMW employs multilink independent suspension all around. New this year are what the brand calls “lift-related dampers.” In theory, they reduce body movement over bumpy roads and in quick cornering, as well as prevent excessive body dive when driving over large bumps. Both the 330i/M340i and the eventual M3 will get this new setup as standard, though the M has a tad lower ride height. A further upgrade will be the existing -- and excellent -- adaptive M suspension system. Also optional on the 330i but standard on the M340i: M Sport brakes with two-piece rotors and the M Sport electronically locking differential.
The Execution
The car has all the right parts, but is it a 3-Series or just a modern interpretation of what used to be? I went to southern Portugal, where BMW arranged an extended road drive of the 330i along with some hot laps of the spectacular Algarve track in the M340i.
Let’s start with the volume car, the four-cylinder 330i, in our case equipped with the M Sport package. The revised and refined 2.0-liter turbo is just about perfect for anything 98 percent of 3-Series buyers are going to do; it makes a healthy growl, has lovely low-end push and isn’t afraid to wind to redline when the road allows. Yes, the manual transmission is missed here, but in sport mode using the paddles, the automatic bangs off shifts quickly.
At sporting speeds on public roads, the 3 is unflappable; part of the credit goes to those new "hydraulic stop" dampers that work on the compression stroke in the rear and the rebound stroke in front. If you’re having trouble visualizing it, just know the car settles instantly after bumps and dips, and maintains its composure in every situation I threw at it. The 3 also has excellent sight lines thanks to a lower, more horizontal dash layout than some of its luxury competitors (cough, C-Class, cough), meaning it’s easier to drive quickly; some credit also goes to the beautifully dialed-in steering that’s one of the better electric systems anywhere. There’s still not a lot of road feel through the wheel, but you know exactly where you’re putting the car.
The M340i, still wearing camo here, is an entertaining track partner
My time with the M340i was spent on-track at Algarve, meaning perfect surfaces and no real-world, daily-driver experiences. The important information is that the classic BMW straight-six is alive and well, sounds brilliant and delivers that same seamless wave of torque coveted since the days of the E21 323i. Thanks to that adaptive steering, the car goes precisely where pointed and in sport-plus mode drifts ever so slightly on track-out before tucking back in and blasting to the next apex. If there’s room for improvement, more brake (or less car) would be nice; fade wasn’t an issue in our handful of laps, but there’s definitely the sense of a lot of mass throwing itself forward when you stand on the pedal. That said, the M340i would make a perfect daily driver/occasional track toy for someone who needs more space than an M240i provides.
What about the digital ecosystem add-ons? If you want to name your car and have it respond to that name, BMW has you covered. If you prefer to say “I’m cold” rather than just reaching over and turning up the (automatic) climate control a few degrees, BMW has you covered. But the reality is that millions were spent on these tech gimmicks, euros that could have been invested in additional lightweighting, suspension tech and powertrain refinement. As good as the car is, one wonders what “hey, BMW” actually costs the enthusiast driver in lost hardware investment.
Though updated with digital screens and sleek buttons, this interior will be familiar to any 3-Series owner.
The Takeaway
The G20 deserves to be called a 3-Series, but it’s specifically not a return to the 3 of yore. That may disappoint some, but it shouldn’t surprise them. This car is a logical progression in the model’s lineage, catering to the perceived whims of today’s buyer. The 2-Series is available for those who want an E46-ish experience.
The new 3-Series isn’t alone at the top either: It’s one of several Ultimate Driving Machines available to the enthusiast, competing with the Genesis G70 for the purist’s heart. If you’re more focused on luxury and screen sizes, you’ll likely find the Mercedes C-Class more to your taste, while the Audi A4 delivers gigabytes of tech at the expense of personality.
Go find out yourself starting in March, when the 330i version goes on sale, followed shortly thereafter by the M340i, along with a plug-in hybrid 330e in about a year. Expect prices to start around $42,000.
ON SALE: March 2019 (330i); July 2019 (M340i)
BASE PRICE: $41,195 (330i)
POWERTRAIN: 2-liter turbo I4 (330i); 3-liter turbo I6 (M340i); 8-speed automatic; RWD/AWD
OUTPUT: 255 hp/295 lb-ft torque (330i); 382 hp/369 lb-ft torque (M340i)
CURB WEIGHT: 3,240 lbs (330i)
0-60 MPH: 5.6 sec/4.2 sec (mfr)
FUEL ECONOMY: TBD(EPA City/Hwy/Combined)
PROS: A sporty, well-mannered sedan with tons of technology
CONS: ...just like every other midsize entry-luxury sports sedan on the market
Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/car-rev...#ixzz5ZTG4bsxZ
12-12-2018, 11:48 AM
#3773
Team Owner
Yup.. that is exactly what the issue is with BMW since the introduction of F30... Having had 3 F3X (335, 435, 340) i am not afraid to admit BMW is not what it used to be. Not even close.
The difference in driving characteristic between E9X and F3X was day and night. If you didnt know better, you would think they came from 2 different manuf. Let alone E46.
BMW knew exactly how to differentiate themselves from Audi, Mercedes and all the others. Now, they are just part of the same group of "Not bad, but nothing special" cars.
I am sure BMW knows that as well and maybe that is what they wanted to do: Sales $$ talks, as long as their sales is not dropping, there is no reason for them to stop the current path.
But i hope those decision making executives will realize what made them so attractive to so many buyers in the first place. Definitely not based on the current products they are offering.
With that being said, it still drives better than Mercedes and Audi (based on my experience)
Just not as much as before.
The difference in driving characteristic between E9X and F3X was day and night. If you didnt know better, you would think they came from 2 different manuf. Let alone E46.
BMW knew exactly how to differentiate themselves from Audi, Mercedes and all the others. Now, they are just part of the same group of "Not bad, but nothing special" cars.
I am sure BMW knows that as well and maybe that is what they wanted to do: Sales $$ talks, as long as their sales is not dropping, there is no reason for them to stop the current path.
But i hope those decision making executives will realize what made them so attractive to so many buyers in the first place. Definitely not based on the current products they are offering.
With that being said, it still drives better than Mercedes and Audi (based on my experience)
Just not as much as before.
12-12-2018, 01:43 PM
#3774
Ex-OEM King
I'll sit here and patiently await the arrival of the M2 Gran Coupe.
12-12-2018, 07:05 PM
#3775
Team Owner
I heard the M2 CS is the best BMW there is currently.
M2CS GC will be my ideal car too.
But i am worried about the pricing. Since a loaded M340i will be $70k... i wonder how much the M2 CS GC will cost.
M2CS GC will be my ideal car too.
But i am worried about the pricing. Since a loaded M340i will be $70k... i wonder how much the M2 CS GC will cost.
12-13-2018, 06:37 PM
#3776
Team Owner
M340i 1/4 mile
12.6 second quarter mile
112.4 mph trap speed
12.6 second quarter mile
112.4 mph trap speed
12-17-2018, 06:47 AM
#3777
Liquid Ice
As a current 340xi owner, my lease will be up in October 2019 - I hope I can afford to replace it with the M340i - but I'm worried with the price increases, and what I think is a worse leasing market I won't be able to.
I happened to be in LA last week and I checked out the car - the interior imho is a big step up from my 340xi. Not a big fan of the kidney grille on the M340i, but hopefully there will be a blacked out version or aftermarket?
Here's hoping for some good residuals from BMW USA on this car!
Otherwise - I'm not sure what I'll be buying. Maybe the Genesis G70? They don't lease particularly well though.
I happened to be in LA last week and I checked out the car - the interior imho is a big step up from my 340xi. Not a big fan of the kidney grille on the M340i, but hopefully there will be a blacked out version or aftermarket?
Here's hoping for some good residuals from BMW USA on this car!
Otherwise - I'm not sure what I'll be buying. Maybe the Genesis G70? They don't lease particularly well though.
12-17-2018, 04:42 PM
#3778
Team Owner
It is still 2 years and 8 months for me... so i can wait and maybe they will offer a shit load of discount + good residual. If not, i might jump to another brand too.
12-17-2018, 06:27 PM
#3779
Liquid Ice
At this point, looking at prices / lease rates for the 2018 540i xDrive, I can probably lease a 2019 540i xDrive next year cheaper than a M340i. I know it won't be exactly the same - but right now I can lease a 2018 540i xDrive with M-Sport and some other options for less than $700/month, while the M340i is probably going to be over $700/month (with $0 down on both, and assuming I can still apply 7 MSDs).
If not - I'm still not sure what brand I'd jump to... I really didn't like the C43 AMG when I test drove it (based on reviews, I was all set to lease the C43, but after test driving it I changed my mind).
I probably should test drive an Audi S4, but everything I've read says it doesn't handle that well. Also want to test drive the Giulia, but the base engine seems boring and I can't afford the Q4 (and unfortunately I probably can't afford the new M3 either). The Genesis G70 seems like it could be an option, but the residuals on them are awful compared to BMW (~50% on a 36/10k versus over 60% on a 36/10k for most BMWs). Not sure what else there is? The ATS-V Sedan is discontinued IIRC. Acura and Lexus aren't options for me right now I don't think.
Maybe a lease takeover for a late model F80 M3
I guess it will come down to test driving the M340i and seeing how much I like it and if it is worth spending extra on
Back on topic - using the 330i Pricing Guide and the $57k MSRP it seems like $70k is probably about right for a well-optioned M340i. Unless BMW has decided to up the MSRP from Invoice price a lot and there is some room for negotiation there?
12-17-2018, 06:38 PM
#3780
Team Owner
I was set to get a 540i M sport with 70k MSRP for $720 a month with $2k drive off 12k miles a year without MSD and that was 4 months ago.
It will be very expensive to lease the M340i the first year since it is new and all hyped up. I agree with you on the C43 and I like the S5 sportback but knowing Audi, the lease program is going to be horrible like 30% more than an equivalent BMW.
One good thing is especially if you are going with the X drive, unlike previous gens, this time around Xdrive actually gets the M sport suspension.
It will be very expensive to lease the M340i the first year since it is new and all hyped up. I agree with you on the C43 and I like the S5 sportback but knowing Audi, the lease program is going to be horrible like 30% more than an equivalent BMW.
One good thing is especially if you are going with the X drive, unlike previous gens, this time around Xdrive actually gets the M sport suspension.
12-17-2018, 06:53 PM
#3781
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Age: 45
Posts: 49,126
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12-18-2018, 12:15 PM
#3782
Team Owner
They better be cuz they will be dead soon if they dont offer some crazy deals.
What kind of #s are we talking about?
What kind of #s are we talking about?
12-18-2018, 12:57 PM
#3783
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Age: 45
Posts: 49,126
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12-18-2018, 01:05 PM
#3784
Moderator
$350/mo w $0 down...base models? Or Sport / Sport Ti?
12-18-2018, 01:41 PM
#3785
Team Owner
12-18-2018, 04:51 PM
#3786
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Age: 45
Posts: 49,126
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They aren’t offering it right now but they were last month and they have several times over the summer. So, I know they will again. But here:
https://www.ocalfaromeo.com/
https://www.ocalfaromeo.com/
12-18-2018, 05:01 PM
#3787
Team Owner
Based on those current #, they are about the same as BMW.
If if i can lease a Giulia Quadrifoglio cheaper than a M3/M4, i would take the liability issue and live once, YOLO.
But it seems the current #s are not any cheaper, at least on paper,
If if i can lease a Giulia Quadrifoglio cheaper than a M3/M4, i would take the liability issue and live once, YOLO.
But it seems the current #s are not any cheaper, at least on paper,
12-18-2018, 05:17 PM
#3788
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Age: 45
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theyll bring them back. These things arent selling that well. Sad but good for deals.
12-18-2018, 08:16 PM
#3789
Liquid Ice
The numbers on Alfa's are not that great - you can see the #'s for the 2018 Giulia here: https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...and-prices/p30
2019 here: https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...-prices#latest
For 2018s - their 24 month residuals are lower than BMW's 36 month residuals - crazy depreciation expectations on the Alfa's. They are (still) offering a $3750 rebate on 2018 models right now though which helps (not on the Q4 though).
This month they are only offering 24 or 39 month leases too, no 36 month leases. This seems to change month to month, sometimes they have 36 month leases.
For the 2018 Q4, the numbers for December are (for 10k miles):
24/10k - .00050 MF and 49% residual
27/10k - .00071 MF and 48% residual
39/10k .00107 MF and 41% residual
$1000 incentive
For the Q4, you're looking at around $1400/month lease payment before taxes with $0 down (using TrueCar.com pricing) for a 27 month / 10k miles, or $1,176 for the 39 month / 10k miles.
Considering the TrueCar price on the Q4 is ~$73k and a $1400/month lease. I would estimate a M340i lease at $70k would cost around $829/month before taxes. That is a huge difference, and not in Alfa's favor for leasing. Of course, you're getting a lot more engine on that $73k Q4 versus the M340i. We'll have to see what the M3 MSRP comes out at - but I'd expect it to start around $72-75k and then as you add options you'd get into the $80k+ range.
2019 here: https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...-prices#latest
For 2018s - their 24 month residuals are lower than BMW's 36 month residuals - crazy depreciation expectations on the Alfa's. They are (still) offering a $3750 rebate on 2018 models right now though which helps (not on the Q4 though).
This month they are only offering 24 or 39 month leases too, no 36 month leases. This seems to change month to month, sometimes they have 36 month leases.
For the 2018 Q4, the numbers for December are (for 10k miles):
24/10k - .00050 MF and 49% residual
27/10k - .00071 MF and 48% residual
39/10k .00107 MF and 41% residual
$1000 incentive
For the Q4, you're looking at around $1400/month lease payment before taxes with $0 down (using TrueCar.com pricing) for a 27 month / 10k miles, or $1,176 for the 39 month / 10k miles.
Considering the TrueCar price on the Q4 is ~$73k and a $1400/month lease. I would estimate a M340i lease at $70k would cost around $829/month before taxes. That is a huge difference, and not in Alfa's favor for leasing. Of course, you're getting a lot more engine on that $73k Q4 versus the M340i. We'll have to see what the M3 MSRP comes out at - but I'd expect it to start around $72-75k and then as you add options you'd get into the $80k+ range.
12-19-2018, 09:36 AM
#3790
Ex-OEM King
Long story short, buy a used off lease Q4 and have some fun. You'll save a fuckton of money.
12-19-2018, 02:37 PM
#3791
Team Owner
Are you sure about that? all it takes is 1 or 2 incidents to wipe off any savings you might get...
That formula works for most of the Makes, not sure if it will work with Alfa. Because unlike BMW, it is a hit or miss, Alfa is almost guaranteed a hit
Last edited by oonowindoo; 12-19-2018 at 02:40 PM.
12-19-2018, 02:39 PM
#3792
Team Owner
The numbers on Alfa's are not that great - you can see the #'s for the 2018 Giulia here: https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...and-prices/p30
2019 here: https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...-prices#latest
For 2018s - their 24 month residuals are lower than BMW's 36 month residuals - crazy depreciation expectations on the Alfa's. They are (still) offering a $3750 rebate on 2018 models right now though which helps (not on the Q4 though).
This month they are only offering 24 or 39 month leases too, no 36 month leases. This seems to change month to month, sometimes they have 36 month leases.
For the 2018 Q4, the numbers for December are (for 10k miles):
24/10k - .00050 MF and 49% residual
27/10k - .00071 MF and 48% residual
39/10k .00107 MF and 41% residual
$1000 incentive
For the Q4, you're looking at around $1400/month lease payment before taxes with $0 down (using TrueCar.com pricing) for a 27 month / 10k miles, or $1,176 for the 39 month / 10k miles.
Considering the TrueCar price on the Q4 is ~$73k and a $1400/month lease. I would estimate a M340i lease at $70k would cost around $829/month before taxes. That is a huge difference, and not in Alfa's favor for leasing. Of course, you're getting a lot more engine on that $73k Q4 versus the M340i. We'll have to see what the M3 MSRP comes out at - but I'd expect it to start around $72-75k and then as you add options you'd get into the $80k+ range.
2019 here: https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...-prices#latest
For 2018s - their 24 month residuals are lower than BMW's 36 month residuals - crazy depreciation expectations on the Alfa's. They are (still) offering a $3750 rebate on 2018 models right now though which helps (not on the Q4 though).
This month they are only offering 24 or 39 month leases too, no 36 month leases. This seems to change month to month, sometimes they have 36 month leases.
For the 2018 Q4, the numbers for December are (for 10k miles):
24/10k - .00050 MF and 49% residual
27/10k - .00071 MF and 48% residual
39/10k .00107 MF and 41% residual
$1000 incentive
For the Q4, you're looking at around $1400/month lease payment before taxes with $0 down (using TrueCar.com pricing) for a 27 month / 10k miles, or $1,176 for the 39 month / 10k miles.
Considering the TrueCar price on the Q4 is ~$73k and a $1400/month lease. I would estimate a M340i lease at $70k would cost around $829/month before taxes. That is a huge difference, and not in Alfa's favor for leasing. Of course, you're getting a lot more engine on that $73k Q4 versus the M340i. We'll have to see what the M3 MSRP comes out at - but I'd expect it to start around $72-75k and then as you add options you'd get into the $80k+ range.
But either way it will be an significant jump from the current 3 series for sure.
12-19-2018, 06:20 PM
#3793
Liquid Ice
12-19-2018, 06:25 PM
#3794
Team Owner
Last month when i picked up the CR-V from my local Honda dealer, they still want $15k above MSRP for the CTR..... so yah a $50k Civic is what they want...
12-20-2018, 07:03 AM
#3795
Liquid Ice
12-20-2018, 07:31 AM
#3796
Azine Jabroni
That's ridiculous. Next Honda will be like "Those CTRs don't sell in the US" and then cancel the project and we'll be stuck with CVT snore machines.
12-29-2018, 02:05 PM
#3797
Liquid Ice
Maybe there is some hope, I called the dealer I bought my 2017 340i from to put a deposit down on a M340i and when they called me back, they said they would offer me one of the first M340i allocations they get and would be able to give me the car for under invoice price. That of course remains to be seen, I never take car dealer's word until it is in writing - but if true, it may help lessen the impact of the price increase over the F30! *crossing fingers*
The allocations and build sheets are of course not available yet, so it will be a little while before I can get something concrete from them.
The allocations and build sheets are of course not available yet, so it will be a little while before I can get something concrete from them.
01-02-2019, 03:15 PM
#3798
Team Owner
Invoice is generally 2000 -3000 off MSRP... which is really nothing on a 60k-70k car. But if your deal can really get you below invoice price right off the bat, then they are pretty good cuz i think there will be markups for the first few months from other dealers.
Compare to ... F30 you can realistically get about 6000-10k off depends on the time of the year....(Discount + incentives)
If you are leasing, i think the initial MF would be very very bad, thus ridiculous monthly payment that is not proportionate with the car.
Compare to ... F30 you can realistically get about 6000-10k off depends on the time of the year....(Discount + incentives)
If you are leasing, i think the initial MF would be very very bad, thus ridiculous monthly payment that is not proportionate with the car.
01-02-2019, 04:32 PM
#3799
Liquid Ice
Invoice is generally 2000 -3000 off MSRP... which is really nothing on a 60k-70k car. But if your deal can really get you below invoice price right off the bat, then they are pretty good cuz i think there will be markups for the first few months from other dealers.
Compare to ... F30 you can realistically get about 6000-10k off depends on the time of the year....(Discount + incentives)
If you are leasing, i think the initial MF would be very very bad, thus ridiculous monthly payment that is not proportionate with the car.
Compare to ... F30 you can realistically get about 6000-10k off depends on the time of the year....(Discount + incentives)
If you are leasing, i think the initial MF would be very very bad, thus ridiculous monthly payment that is not proportionate with the car.
I'll have to wait and see of course, there obviously won't be any manufacturer support in the beginning - except for maybe a Loyalty rebate (usually $1000) and maybe if BMW decides to re-institute the Corp Fleet discount (they discontinued it in October 2018) - then lets say they go $1500 under invoice, $1000 loyalty and $1500 fleet, combined for $4000 under invoice, that isn't too bad for a new model car. So if the car is $70K MSRP and I pay $63k ($3000 under MSRP plus $4000 off), that'd be pretty awesome for a brand new car. But I'll have to wait and see. Not sure if I could combine with the BMW CCA $500 rebate, but that is another that I might be able to get (minus paying for the BMW CCA membership).
MF usually doesn't swing the lease price too too much (unless interest rates go up a ton), it is the Residual that seems to be a big factor when I've run calculations. Most manufacturers are in the ~50% range on a 3 year 10k mile lease while BMW is usually in the ~60% range, especially on brand new models. "Saving" 10% depreciation on a $70,000 car is $7000 over the life of the lease that you're saving, or about $194/month. I have seen Audis with a ~40% Residual! That savings means a $60,000 car with a 50% residual leases roughly like a $66000 car with a 60% residual. That is the problem I'm running into when running numbers for a Genesis G70 (it is still cheaper, but because the residuals are lower, it is not that much cheaper). Lexus I have seen even higher than ~60%, as high as 68% on a 27 month lease! I'm not looking to lease another Lexus though.
Right now, a higher MF versus a promo MF usually add less than $100 per month, usually closer to $50? Will have to see how interest rates go over the next year.
01-02-2019, 05:06 PM
#3800
Team Owner
The reason why BMW is so much better lease than MB and Audi is a combination is good MF and higher RV... and of course very good discount structure as well.
If you can get 7k off MSRP or even 5k off MSRP on the early allocations of the M340i, that would be great deal. Since dealer cant do much with the RV and MF... that is all they can do.
I am gonna wait for the next 4GC.... after had 4GC for 3 years and now 340... i really miss the look and the hatch of 4GC.... But with 340 hitting 70k.. a freaking loaded M440i might be close to $80k
It seriously is making the M2 competition look like a steal!
If you can get 7k off MSRP or even 5k off MSRP on the early allocations of the M340i, that would be great deal. Since dealer cant do much with the RV and MF... that is all they can do.
I am gonna wait for the next 4GC.... after had 4GC for 3 years and now 340... i really miss the look and the hatch of 4GC.... But with 340 hitting 70k.. a freaking loaded M440i might be close to $80k
It seriously is making the M2 competition look like a steal!
Last edited by oonowindoo; 01-02-2019 at 05:10 PM.