gavriil

US Dollars Per Year

1. Daimler Chrysler= 7.6 billion
2. Ford = 7.4 billion
3. Toyota = 6.9 billion
4. GM = 6.5 billion
5. VW= 4.9 billion
6. Honda = 4.3 billion
7. Nissan = 3.7 billion
8. BMW = 2.8 billion
9. PSA = 2.8 billion
10. Renault = 1.8 billion

-------------------------

R&D Spending as Percentage of Sales

1. Honda = 5.4%
2. BMW = 5.3%
3. VW = 4.9%
4. Nissan = 4.6%
5. Fiat = 4.4%
6. Ford = 4.3%
7. Toyota = 4.1%
8. DC = 4.0%
9. PSA = 3.7%
10. GM = 3.4%


Source: Annual Reports via Autoline Detroit (Automotive TV Show)

gavriil

Interesting when seen from both angles...

biker

It's no wonder why Honda can't spend more R&D money on a RWD platform. Of course a lot of money was probably spent on their jet engine which has few uses.

srika

what does Ford spend 7.4b doing???? 3/4 of that must have been from the GT, lol.

Belzebutt

What is PSA?

einsatz

^ Peugeot Société Anonyme
http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com

SteVTEC

Ford is actually a global giant when it comes to research, and a lot of what they do isn't really visible to the consumer. They do a lot of fuel cell research, advanced casting processes, and engine construction like advanced plasma spray coatings, racing engine development, hybrid technology, and other things that you won't see for another 10-20 years like camless valvetrains, HCCI combustion, etc.


BTW that is a cool avatar.

srika

hehe... forgot the smiley face. I know Ford is a HUGE company involved in many many divisions around the world.. I wasn't being serious.

gavriil

And ASIMO

gavriil

LOL

Edward'TLS

Who knows ? Maybe ten years from now Honda will be competing with Boeing and Airbus for jetliner business. Diversity is the key to future expansion. A few decades ago, Honda was only building motobikes, and no one then would have dreamed that Honda would have a highly successful auto division thirty years later.

M TYPE X

VW and FIAT are great at pissing away cash. BMW, Honda, and Nissan actually have something to show for their research expenditures.

SteVTEC

I don't necessarily disagree, but part of research is acknowledging the fact that the results of your research may only prove that the subject is not worth persuing. VW's VR6 engine is a jewel with extremely high power density and packaging efficiency. Their DSG gearbox is flat out awesome too. When their patents expire you're going to see a whole ton of copy cat systems out there and it's going to be awesome. Automated manual gearboxes have a huge future in that they have better performance and efficiency than an automatic, lower associated costs, and also much better reliability. And in the case of DSG, operation that's just as smooth as a traditional automatic.

The only difference at VW is that the man at the top keeps saying "YES" to every idea their researchers come up with even if the ideas have no commercial viability whatsoever. What they need is somebody that says NO a whole helluva lot more to filter out the useful from the non-useful so that they don't keep pissing money away like they have been. Gotta give VW/Audi credit though. There is lots of innovation going on at that company and they have a lot of technological "firsts" that they can claim. It would be an engineer's dream to work at that company, and a bean counter's nightmare.

Motohip

I love this thread!

F-C

Recyclemobiles

jwong77

Alot of the spending could be on racing too. I believe Ford is very active in F1, ChampCar, Nascar, and others. Thats got to cost a few bucks!

biker

If it was that great others would just buy it from Audi and offer it in their cars. It's unlikely it will ever be more reliable than an MT (more parts with hydraulics involved). I think even BMW is cutting back on their SMG option. DSG will be the Apple of the tranny world - it's a great platform with little market penetration (MT is the Linux).

SteVTEC

Manufacturers don't like to buy stuff or license technology from other competiing manufacturers because it's very bad for their image and also a matter of pride, so what you say is not likely to happen.

They may not be more reliable than an MT, but it'll definitely do better than a lot of automatics which can't seem to keep up with the power that engines are cranking out these days, especially Honda's autos. And with gas prices getting higher and higher, the slushy 5% efficiency loss torque converter is a prime target for elimination, and switching to a DSG/SMG type gearbox would take care of that while also saving manufacturers some money. DSG/SMG type trannys are said to be about $500-1000 cheaper to produce than traditional automatics.

It's not a "killer app" but it's an option that a lot of manufacturers are taking a very close look at for future product generations.

Motohip

You act like it doesn't happen. Isn't Ford or Nissan (can't remember) borrowing hybrid stuff from Toyota? And the Saturn Vue uses the V6 from the MDX. It was deal with Honda and GM. GM is supplying diesel engines to Honda.

youngTL

Edward'TLS

There was a time when GM was building Corolla derivatives and Isuzu cars and trunks off the GM production lines, and sold them as GM vehicles. Chrysler sold Mitsubishi Lancer and Eslipse deriviatives. Honda also rebadged the Isuzu Trooper and sold them as Honda Passport for a couple of years. I guess image and pride don't apply here.

jwong77

Correction the Izuzu Trooper was the Acura SLX and the Izuzu Rodeo was the Honda Passport. I don't know about pride but the rebadge of the Trooper can't be good for Acura's image (not exactly sporty nor luxurious).

Edward'TLS

The problem being at that time Honda/Acura was losing lots and lots of SUV buyers to other makers, and Honda was a couple years away from releasing any comparable home-make SUV's. However, people always have short memories. Now they only know how good the Honda/Acura trucks are. Similarly, I bet a couple years from now nobody will even remember the 2nd gen. TL/CL, Accord, MDX tranny problems.

phile

^ That's why you don't see any. Honestly, i've seen 1 (one!!) Acura SLX on the road. And that has not ever happened again. And for the record, it was actually Acura who rebadged the Trooper; the Trooper was not a rebadged Acura.

Ken1997TL

I've only seen ONE Acura SLX.. ever. And I keep an eye out for things like that.

As for R&D spending, I'm curious if Honda's number is for ALL of Honda or just the automotive section.

Motohip

I used to see them a lot more, but they are rare. Probably cause they are so hard to work on, along with the Rodeo, so they slowly die off. I've been in one though and they are pretty luxurious.

SteVTEC

You're taking the comment out of context. The context of that comment was specifically about automated manual gearbox setups, not engine deals, hybrid deals, or the rebadging of entire cars (Isuzu Hondas, and Toyota Geos). All of those are big ticket items. The comment was only for smaller technology items.

And no I don't think Honda really had much pride in selling rebadged Rodeos (Honda Passport) and Troopers (Acura SLX)

Moog-Type-S

and the JDM tennis shoes

phile

Somebody posted about those on another site, and there was even a link where you could buy them.

Motohip

I don't think I took it out of context. Here are your exact words. It was a very general statement...
And as for the Honda not having pride in selling rebadged Rodeos...Nobody even said Honda took pride in that. Did that stop them? Obviously not.

SteVTEC

You did take it out of context. There's much more meaning beneath that, although I do admit that was pretty poorly worded and hence the misunderstanding.

Edward'TLS

I don't think others' comments are out of context. You did say "Manufacturers don't like to buy stuff or license technology from other competiing manufacturers because it's very bad for their image and also a matter of pride, so what you say is not likely to happen." in your earlier post, and that exactly what GM, Honda, Acura, etc., did.

heyitsme

Its great that Honda has high R$D, but the problem is its not Honda Auto-they have multiple ventures grouped under honda- bikes, engines(not car engines ), jet engines, lawn mowers, scooters, etc see honda.com.

So reality is the Germans are the ones most likely to develop hot new ideas, with Nissan of all companies thinking they should be doing the same.

phile

I don't think that's necessarily true. Here's an article about Honda's R&D spending from almost a year ago, and I think the author summed up Honda's frugality and creativity in R&D quite accurately, judging by some of the ideas they've thrown into the automotive market:

So while they don't primarily dedicate their R&D spending to the automotive sector like other manufacturers, I don't see it being a disadvantage if they can gain the same insights that other manufacturers gain while researching broader areas instead of just focusing only on their automotive sector.


http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...tos-138740.htm