Notices

Audi: Development and Technology News

 
Old 01-20-2007, 09:52 AM
  #161  
Registered Member
 
EuRTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: District of Corruption
Age: 31
Posts: 23,594
Received 105 Likes on 69 Posts
Originally Posted by heyitsme
Obviously, Acura stole the technology from the Mitsubishi Evo and now Audi wants to jump in.

EuRTSX is offline  
Old 01-20-2007, 06:55 PM
  #162  
Honda Fanboy
 
VTEC Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,288
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Maximized
Actually he is correct. Read up on Mitsubishi's SAYC system.

"SAYC (Super Active Yaw Control) is a computerized system that varies the ACD (Active Centre Differential) and provides dynamic amounts of power to each wheel. A natural instinct is to correct oversteer in any car. With the Evo, the computer takes care of it, you can feel the back end stepping out but, the Evo corrects it for you and thanks you for your meagre attempt to throw it out of control. Switch the ACD to the ‘Gravel’ setting and be prepared to be amazed. Drop the back end out on a dirt road and add power, with ease, the SAYC manages to help you out significantly, it’s simply astonishing."
That is not the same as SH-AWD. SH-AWD is still a superior technology.

Still waiting to be proven wrong, along with every magazine publication out there.
VTEC Racer is offline  
Old 01-20-2007, 07:01 PM
  #163  
Honda Fanboy
 
VTEC Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,288
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
"Acura's system is superior to on the market, simply through the fact that it distributes engine torque to a greater amount 70:30 seamlessly and continously compared to the attesa-ets (great in inclement weather and even optimizes for dry weather, by deteremining and distributing grip through Gs, not slip--apparently unheard of). As for the mitsubishi evo's awd with active yaw control, i couldn't find any solid numbers for the yaw control power distribution to the outer wheels. But note that it is not available in the USA to keep prices down on evos. The articles did describe a "10% increase" in the handling prowess of sayc, but that is over the less efficient yaw control (ayc), that didn't rotate the car as efficiently.

Super Active Yaw Control
It's complicated, but together with four-wheel drive, this is the secret of the Evo's amazing powers of handling and roadholding. The Evo's active centre differential, now a multi-plate clutch unit, distributes power 50:50 to the front and rear axles in normal conditions, but varies it according to the grip available at each axle. Active Yaw Control takes this a stage further by controlling the power to the individual wheels on each axle, like a limited slip differential. Electronic sensors and ECUs make this system a whole lot more sophisticated than a simple mechanical limited slip differential, however. The Evo VII's Active Yaw Control has been criticised for not sending enough power to the outer wheels under cornering, thereby failing to exploit the car's greater power and tyres' greater grip. To counter this, Mitsubishi has installed axle differentials that use planetary rather than bevel gears, these allowing a significantly greater portion of power to be sent to the outside wheels. The change improves the Evo's cornering power by as much as 10 percent - hence the 'Super' prefix. The system's operating parameters can also be controlled from a dashboard switch to suit tarmac, gravel or snow conditions. In essence, as the surface becomes more slippery, the car responds less rapidly to steering inputs whose sharpness might otherwise send it into an undesirable skid, the active diff and yaw controls acting to improve its stability and controlability. "

I'm not the only one that says Acura's technology is superior and unique, as in world-first.
VTEC Racer is offline  
Old 01-20-2007, 09:44 PM
  #164  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: philly
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by VTEC Racer
"Acura's system is superior to on the market, simply through the fact that it distributes engine torque to a greater amount 70:30 seamlessly and continously compared to the attesa-ets (great in inclement weather and even optimizes for dry weather, by deteremining and distributing grip through Gs, not slip--apparently unheard of). As for the mitsubishi evo's awd with active yaw control, i couldn't find any solid numbers for the yaw control power distribution to the outer wheels. But note that it is not available in the USA to keep prices down on evos. The articles did describe a "10% increase" in the handling prowess of sayc, but that is over the less efficient yaw control (ayc), that didn't rotate the car as efficiently.

Super Active Yaw Control
It's complicated, but together with four-wheel drive, this is the secret of the Evo's amazing powers of handling and roadholding. The Evo's active centre differential, now a multi-plate clutch unit, distributes power 50:50 to the front and rear axles in normal conditions, but varies it according to the grip available at each axle. Active Yaw Control takes this a stage further by controlling the power to the individual wheels on each axle, like a limited slip differential. Electronic sensors and ECUs make this system a whole lot more sophisticated than a simple mechanical limited slip differential, however. The Evo VII's Active Yaw Control has been criticised for not sending enough power to the outer wheels under cornering, thereby failing to exploit the car's greater power and tyres' greater grip. To counter this, Mitsubishi has installed axle differentials that use planetary rather than bevel gears, these allowing a significantly greater portion of power to be sent to the outside wheels. The change improves the Evo's cornering power by as much as 10 percent - hence the 'Super' prefix. The system's operating parameters can also be controlled from a dashboard switch to suit tarmac, gravel or snow conditions. In essence, as the surface becomes more slippery, the car responds less rapidly to steering inputs whose sharpness might otherwise send it into an undesirable skid, the active diff and yaw controls acting to improve its stability and controlability. "

I'm not the only one that says Acura's technology is superior and unique, as in world-first.
For a couple minutes I thought you were a serious car guy, but the second you started crying when 'Maximized' made his latest post, your true colors were shown. You've made yourself clear as a piece of shit rice boi.
heyitsme is offline  
Old 01-20-2007, 09:47 PM
  #165  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: philly
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by VTEC Racer
Sorry, you haven't proved me wrong in anyway. I can type a bunch of stuff and put quotes around it also.

"Acura owns Mitsubishi."

You're proved wrong.

Give me some REAL facts with support, not your middle-school stuff.

Yes, magazines can be wrong, but not when EVERY SINGLE MAGAZINE says that Acura's technology is a world-first.
You are a TOOL. haha.
heyitsme is offline  
Old 01-20-2007, 09:52 PM
  #166  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: philly
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
heyitsme is offline  
Old 01-20-2007, 10:01 PM
  #167  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: philly
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
EvoX : "Via a new S-AWC (Super All-Wheel Control) system that Mitsubishi promises will rival Honda's SH-AWD in sophistication. The new system will feature active steering, active yaw control, and myriad electronic sensors."



Last edited by heyitsme; 01-20-2007 at 10:06 PM.
heyitsme is offline  
Old 01-21-2007, 08:23 AM
  #168  
Senior Moderator
 
F23A4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Age: 51
Posts: 16,498
Received 490 Likes on 327 Posts
...new Evo looks hot.
F23A4 is online now  
Old 01-21-2007, 01:23 PM
  #169  
Honda Fanboy
 
VTEC Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,288
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by heyitsme
EvoX : "Via a new S-AWC (Super All-Wheel Control) system that Mitsubishi promises will rival Honda's SH-AWD in sophistication. The new system will feature active steering, active yaw control, and myriad electronic sensors."
Yeah, Bro. I'm the rice boi tool when your the one thats reduced yourself to calling people names now.

Anyways, the quote above from you has proven my point. Mitsubishi promises that it will rival Honda's SH-AWD. Yet, Honda copied Mitsubishi? If Mitsubishi is promising to come out with a new S-AWC to rival SH-AWD, how in the world did Honda/Acura copy Mitsubishi to begin with?

Try using your brain more often instead of those choice words you quickly called upon.
VTEC Racer is offline  
Old 01-21-2007, 01:33 PM
  #170  
Pinky all stinky
 
phile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,499
Received 118 Likes on 71 Posts
I think the people who are saying Mitsu had the system first are ignoring that Honda had the active torque transfer system in place in the Prelude as early as 1997.
phile is offline  
Old 01-21-2007, 08:57 PM
  #171  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Age: 38
Posts: 5,577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by VTEC Racer
"Acura's system is superior to on the market, simply through the fact that it distributes engine torque to a greater amount 70:30 seamlessly and continously compared to the attesa-ets (great in inclement weather and even optimizes for dry weather, by deteremining and distributing grip through Gs, not slip--apparently unheard of). As for the mitsubishi evo's awd with active yaw control, i couldn't find any solid numbers for the yaw control power distribution to the outer wheels. But note that it is not available in the USA to keep prices down on evos. The articles did describe a "10% increase" in the handling prowess of sayc, but that is over the less efficient yaw control (ayc), that didn't rotate the car as efficiently.

Super Active Yaw Control
It's complicated, but together with four-wheel drive, this is the secret of the Evo's amazing powers of handling and roadholding. The Evo's active centre differential, now a multi-plate clutch unit, distributes power 50:50 to the front and rear axles in normal conditions, but varies it according to the grip available at each axle. Active Yaw Control takes this a stage further by controlling the power to the individual wheels on each axle, like a limited slip differential. Electronic sensors and ECUs make this system a whole lot more sophisticated than a simple mechanical limited slip differential, however. The Evo VII's Active Yaw Control has been criticised for not sending enough power to the outer wheels under cornering, thereby failing to exploit the car's greater power and tyres' greater grip. To counter this, Mitsubishi has installed axle differentials that use planetary rather than bevel gears, these allowing a significantly greater portion of power to be sent to the outside wheels. The change improves the Evo's cornering power by as much as 10 percent - hence the 'Super' prefix. The system's operating parameters can also be controlled from a dashboard switch to suit tarmac, gravel or snow conditions. In essence, as the surface becomes more slippery, the car responds less rapidly to steering inputs whose sharpness might otherwise send it into an undesirable skid, the active diff and yaw controls acting to improve its stability and controlability. "

I'm not the only one that says Acura's technology is superior and unique, as in world-first.
How is it superior? Because you read it in a magazine? It might be more sophisticated in terms of "technology", but when you break it down they both do the exact same thing. Mitsubishi's system is proven on the track and rallying. Where has Acura's systems proven itself? In terms of proven performance, the Mitsubishi system is hands down the winner.
Maximized is offline  
Old 01-21-2007, 09:31 PM
  #172  
Honda Fanboy
 
VTEC Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,288
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Maximized
How is it superior? Because you read it in a magazine? It might be more sophisticated in terms of "technology", but when you break it down they both do the exact same thing. Mitsubishi's system is proven on the track and rallying. Where has Acura's systems proven itself? In terms of proven performance, the Mitsubishi system is hands down the winner.

Actually, they don't both do the same thing. Mitsubishi's technology is reactive compared to Acura's passive system. The Mitsubishi system has to detect slip before any power is transferred. Acura's system measures g-forces, steering angle and yaw to transfer power BEFORE the car starts to slip. But hey, like 'heyitsme' pointed out a few posts above, Mitsubishi is currently in the process of delivering a system to rival SH-AWD, meaning the current one doesn't match SH-AWD.
VTEC Racer is offline  
Old 01-21-2007, 09:39 PM
  #173  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Age: 38
Posts: 5,577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by VTEC Racer
Actually, they don't both do the same thing. Mitsubishi's technology is reactive compared to Acura's passive system. The Mitsubishi system has to detect slip before any power is transferred. Acura's system measures g-forces, steering angle and yaw to transfer power BEFORE the car starts to slip. But hey, like 'heyitsme' pointed out a few posts above, Mitsubishi is currently in the process of delivering a system to rival SH-AWD, meaning the current one doesn't match SH-AWD.
You proved my point, they do EXACTLY the same thing.
Maximized is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 12:21 AM
  #174  
Honda Fanboy
 
VTEC Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,288
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Maximized
You proved my point, they do EXACTLY the same thing.

LOLOLOL If you took that as being the exact same thing, then hey, I have a Kia Sonata I want to sell you. It is EXACTLY like a BMW 750iL.

They do the same exact thing but Mitsubishi wants to come out with a system to rival SH-AWD which has already been out. That makes a lot of sense. Can you tell me what you get when you add 1+2? I get 3. I have a feeling you don't though.
VTEC Racer is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 09:53 AM
  #175  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Age: 38
Posts: 5,577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by VTEC Racer
LOLOLOL If you took that as being the exact same thing, then hey, I have a Kia Sonata I want to sell you. It is EXACTLY like a BMW 750iL.

They do the same exact thing but Mitsubishi wants to come out with a system to rival SH-AWD which has already been out. That makes a lot of sense. Can you tell me what you get when you add 1+2? I get 3. I have a feeling you don't though.
LOLOLOL You aren't getting it. Both systems do the exact same thing, but achieve the final results in a different manner. Honda's system is the next generation that produces quicker results based on readings from more sensors. If you knew how either system worked from a mechanical standpoint, you would easily understand that the final result is the same. There is no use arguing with you because it's apparent that you are a Honda fanboy and really have little clue what you are talking about. Keep posting magazine articles; it's amusing. Heyitsme was 100% in his character analysis.
Maximized is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 11:07 AM
  #176  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lexington
Posts: 1,622
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by phile
I think the people who are saying Mitsu had the system first are ignoring that Honda had the active torque transfer system in place in the Prelude as early as 1997.
Exactly. Honda had torque vectoring tech. almost 10 years ago in the old SH preludes, where it was used to quell understeer. In fact, Motortrend called the Prelude SH the best handling car for under $25000, due in part to the fact that the torque vectoring helped the Prelude overcome some of the inherent characteristics of a FWD vehicle.

The RL was an adaptation of this technology and the FIRST of it's kind in the world to be proactive and redistribute torque at the rear axle BEFORE any kind of slip was detected. It IS a SUPERIOR technology to Mitsubishi's Super Active Yaw Control because which is not proactive, but is reactive. The fact that Acura's SH-AWD system is superior to Mitsubishi's torque vectoring AWD (or for that matter, any other AWD system in a road car) is demonstrated by the fact that Mitsu plans to incoporate a new "Super Al-Wheel Control" system to RIVAL Acura's SH-AWD.

No point developing a technology to rival a competitor's in term's of sophistication, effectiveness, and execution if you already have the technology. Mitsubishi doesn't have that technology as of now.
vishnus11 is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 11:17 AM
  #177  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Age: 38
Posts: 5,577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The GTR also has a "torque vectoring" system. Acura's sytem is somewhat proactive. You cannot of course overcome the laws of physics and the system cannot directly monitor the road. I am sure in the future, there will be a system that will be able to tell what conditions are present on the road.

The problem with Acura is that they don't have a performance car to put this system into. It would go a long way to actually prove the system on a race track. That's how Audi built the Quattro brand.
Maximized is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 11:47 AM
  #178  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lexington
Posts: 1,622
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Maximized
The GTR also has a "torque vectoring" system. Acura's sytem is somewhat proactive. You cannot of course overcome the laws of physics and the system cannot directly monitor the road. I am sure in the future, there will be a system that will be able to tell what conditions are present on the road.

The problem with Acura is that they don't have a performance car to put this system into. It would go a long way to actually prove the system on a race track. That's how Audi built the Quattro brand.
The Gt-R isn't out yet so for now Acura's system is still the benchmark and is technologically superior to Mitsubishi's current system.

I do agree with Acura needing to implement this system on a more performance oriented car - but now its more of a question of when rather than if; the NSX replacement will have a rear biased version of the SH-AWD system. I imagine that at the very least, a performance version of the next generation TL, ala Type-S or some such, will also put this system to better use. My only concern is weight - Acura says the system is lightweight when compared to convential AWD systems, but I'd still venture that i adds at least 200lbs to the weight of a given vehicle. I'm not sure that the extra performance in a performance oriented vehicle such as the NSX offsets the weight disadvantage, but time will tell.
vishnus11 is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 12:00 PM
  #179  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Age: 38
Posts: 5,577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by vishnus11
The Gt-R isn't out yet so for now Acura's system is still the benchmark and is technologically superior to Mitsubishi's current system.

I do agree with Acura needing to implement this system on a more performance oriented car - but now its more of a question of when rather than if; the NSX replacement will have a rear biased version of the SH-AWD system. I imagine that at the very least, a performance version of the next generation TL, ala Type-S or some such, will also put this system to better use. My only concern is weight - Acura says the system is lightweight when compared to convential AWD systems, but I'd still venture that i adds at least 200lbs to the weight of a given vehicle. I'm not sure that the extra performance in a performance oriented vehicle such as the NSX offsets the weight disadvantage, but time will tell.
The Skyline GT-R....AKA R34.

I would question that Acura's system is the benchmark. Again, it looks good on paper, but it's not proven. Audi might be late to the party, but I suspect that they will effectively demonstrate to the consumer that this is race proven technology. The way that Acura has been dragging their feet on the NSX, Audi will have the next gen S/RS series cars using this technology.
Maximized is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 12:39 PM
  #180  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 719
Received 45 Likes on 25 Posts
Originally Posted by Maximized
The Skyline GT-R....AKA R34.

I would question that Acura's system is the benchmark. Again, it looks good on paper, but it's not proven. Audi might be late to the party, but I suspect that they will effectively demonstrate to the consumer that this is race proven technology. The way that Acura has been dragging their feet on the NSX, Audi will have the next gen S/RS series cars using this technology.
A very good chance you will see it on the R8 in 2008 when it comes with a 10cyl TDI or 10cyl gas engine in it. The NSX is still going to be awhile and by making it SH-AWD would be wise, its way to aggressive for Honda...IMHO
cp3117 is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 01:09 PM
  #181  
Honda Fanboy
 
VTEC Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,288
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Maximized
LOLOLOL You aren't getting it. Both systems do the exact same thing, but achieve the final results in a different manner. Honda's system is the next generation that produces quicker results based on readings from more sensors. If you knew how either system worked from a mechanical standpoint, you would easily understand that the final result is the same. There is no use arguing with you because it's apparent that you are a Honda fanboy and really have little clue what you are talking about. Keep posting magazine articles; it's amusing. Heyitsme was 100% in his character analysis.
Trust me, Bub, I know exactly how the SH-AWD system and Mitsibishi's system works. If you want me to get down to the mechanical aspect, then fine. However, judging from what I have seen from you so far, you would have been lost at the words planetary gears.

Lets say for arguements sake that Mitsubishi is not developing a system to rival SH-AWD and what they have right now is already just as good, hey, even better than SH-AWD!! Because as we all know, Mitsubishi has always been leading the technological automotive industry. Anyways... The whole reason for the start of this bickering was when someone said that Acura copied Mitsubishi. Unless Mitsubishi had this technology before 1996, Honda/Acura was the first company to develop this system with the 1997 Honda Prelude. I thought you would get that fact from the ten other people who mentioned it but I guess not.

Just because I'm defending Honda with facts and information in the same exact manner as you are, that makes me a Honda Fan boy? Incase you didn't notice, this is an Acura forum. Doesn't say much about you having 4k+ posts here. Obviously someone is more commited than I am. Trying to communicate with you is like trying to bring peace to Iraq, it's just not gonna work.
VTEC Racer is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 01:51 PM
  #182  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Age: 38
Posts: 5,577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by VTEC Racer
Trust me, Bub, I know exactly how the SH-AWD system and Mitsibishi's system works. If you want me to get down to the mechanical aspect, then fine. However, judging from what I have seen from you so far, you would have been lost at the words planetary gears.

Lets say for arguements sake that Mitsubishi is not developing a system to rival SH-AWD and what they have right now is already just as good, hey, even better than SH-AWD!! Because as we all know, Mitsubishi has always been leading the technological automotive industry. Anyways... The whole reason for the start of this bickering was when someone said that Acura copied Mitsubishi. Unless Mitsubishi had this technology before 1996, Honda/Acura was the first company to develop this system with the 1997 Honda Prelude. I thought you would get that fact from the ten other people who mentioned it but I guess not.

Just because I'm defending Honda with facts and information in the same exact manner as you are, that makes me a Honda Fan boy? Incase you didn't notice, this is an Acura forum. Doesn't say much about you having 4k+ posts here. Obviously someone is more commited than I am. Trying to communicate with you is like trying to bring peace to Iraq, it's just not gonna work.
More useless babbling on your part. I understand the history. The fact of the matter is that you don't understand how these systems affect vehicle dyamics(which means you truely don't understand the mechanics behind the system), which again is the end result of both systems. I am sure I will get some paragraphs with plenty of quotes in them trying to make yourself look like the expert.
Maximized is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 02:01 PM
  #183  
Honda Fanboy
 
VTEC Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,288
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Maximized
More useless babbling on your part. I understand the history. The fact of the matter is that you don't understand how these systems affect vehicle dyamics(which means you truely don't understand the mechanics behind the system), which again is the end result of both systems. I am sure I will get some paragraphs with plenty of quotes in them trying to make yourself look like the expert.
Sorry, I'm not claiming to be an expert at anything. And if you take a look, I'm not the one that started with the quotes.

We are not talking about how these systems affect the vehicles. This whole debate began when whoever said that Honda copied Mitsubishi. It has already been clearly proven that was not the case. Any more comments off that subject would be considered 'useless babbling.'
VTEC Racer is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 02:22 PM
  #184  
Senior Moderator
 
F23A4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Age: 51
Posts: 16,498
Received 490 Likes on 327 Posts
At this point in the game (automobile technology), the argument it moot. There always has been 'emulating' between carmakers from day one and that is not necessarily a bad thing (and many times it is a great thing).
F23A4 is online now  
Old 01-22-2007, 03:10 PM
  #185  
4G TL-Elilte, 3G MDX
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Richmond,B.C.,Canada
Posts: 9,157
Received 661 Likes on 525 Posts
It is quite facinating to see that long-time AWD car makers such as Audi and Mitsubishi are scrambling to play catch-up to a new-comer AWD maker (Acura) which debuts the SH-AWD system. Subaru's AWD history rivals that of Audi's. I wonder what Subaru plans to do to join in the fight.
Edward'TLS is offline  
Old 01-22-2007, 03:52 PM
  #186  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Age: 38
Posts: 5,577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
It is quite facinating to see that long-time AWD car makers such as Audi and Mitsubishi are scrambling to play catch-up to a new-comer AWD maker (Acura) which debuts the SH-AWD system. Subaru's AWD history rivals that of Audi's. I wonder what Subaru plans to do to join in the fight.
Every car maker has these moments. There were times when luxury brands were catching up to Ford and GM(Imagine that). For example, many automakers are behind VW/Audi in DSG transmissions. Porsche and BMW both plan on coming out with DSG's shortly. I think that Suburu, Mitsu, and Audi should easily be able to adapt this type of system to their existing AWD platforms.
Maximized is offline  
Old 01-23-2007, 05:16 AM
  #187  
Senior Moderator
 
F23A4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Age: 51
Posts: 16,498
Received 490 Likes on 327 Posts
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
It is quite facinating to see that long-time AWD car makers such as Audi and Mitsubishi are scrambling to play catch-up to a new-comer AWD maker (Acura) which debuts the SH-AWD system. Subaru's AWD history rivals that of Audi's. I wonder what Subaru plans to do to join in the fight.
I think Audi just wants to stay ahead of the curve, in the event that Acura really intends to take its SH-AWD and establish itself as a bonafide Audi competitor.

That said Audi & Subaru are brands clearly established as the pinnacle in AWD brands. Even if Acura put SH-AWD in the TL & TSX tomorrow (completing SH-AWD in all of their offerings), the jury is out on whether or not they would lure Audi and Subaru buyers to Acura.

That said, as Audi looks ahead and focuses on BMW & Lexus they had better look behind and watchout for Acura & Infiniti.
F23A4 is online now  
Old 01-23-2007, 07:26 AM
  #188  
dom
Senior Moderator
 
dom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 47,711
Received 797 Likes on 659 Posts
Um, Audi doesn't sell anything close to what Acura does in the US so I'm not sure why they should be looking over their shoulders. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Granted they have great cars and I'm not disputing their technology and AWD system but 90,116 sales compared to Acura's 201,223 isn't exactly close.
dom is offline  
Old 01-23-2007, 07:52 AM
  #189  
Registered Member
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fairfax, VA
Age: 54
Posts: 11,576
Received 111 Likes on 88 Posts
Originally Posted by dom
Um, Audi doesn't sell anything close to what Acura does in the US so I'm not sure why they should be looking over their shoulders. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Granted they have great cars and I'm not disputing their technology and AWD system but 90,116 sales compared to Acura's 201,223 isn't exactly close.
No, but it could steal even more of those sales with an all SH-AWD lineup.

Like I said before - Acura, the more reliable Audi.
biker is offline  
Old 01-23-2007, 07:52 AM
  #190  
Senior Moderator
 
F23A4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Age: 51
Posts: 16,498
Received 490 Likes on 327 Posts
Originally Posted by dom
Um, Audi doesn't sell anything close to what Acura does in the US so I'm not sure why they should be looking over their shoulders. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Granted they have great cars and I'm not disputing their technology and AWD system but 90,116 sales compared to Acura's 201,223 isn't exactly close.
I was referring to brand recognition within the "near luxury" segment not sales figures.
F23A4 is online now  
Old 01-23-2007, 07:56 AM
  #191  
dom
Senior Moderator
 
dom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 47,711
Received 797 Likes on 659 Posts
Originally Posted by F23A4
I was referring to brand recognition within the "near luxury" segment not sales figures.
I hear ya. But brand recongnition isn't exactly killing Acura. Sure it could be better, but I don't think its the huge problem this board makes it out to be.
dom is offline  
Old 01-23-2007, 08:16 AM
  #192  
Senior Moderator
 
F23A4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Age: 51
Posts: 16,498
Received 490 Likes on 327 Posts
Originally Posted by dom
I hear ya. But brand recongnition isn't exactly killing Acura. Sure it could be better, but I don't think its the huge problem this board makes it out to be.
Rather than Brand Recognition, I believe I should have used the term 'Brand Image.'
F23A4 is online now  
Old 01-23-2007, 08:57 AM
  #193  
Registered Member
 
pimpin-tl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Abilene, TX
Age: 44
Posts: 4,013
Received 148 Likes on 99 Posts
You know, it was a matter of time before it happpend. I even saw that Ford had one on the Fusion that did the same as the SH-AWD.
pimpin-tl is offline  
Old 01-23-2007, 04:24 PM
  #194  
4G TL-Elilte, 3G MDX
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Richmond,B.C.,Canada
Posts: 9,157
Received 661 Likes on 525 Posts
Originally Posted by F23A4
Rather than Brand Recognition, I believe I should have used the term 'Brand Image.'
Brand recognition / brand image sure kills the RL sales. Similarly, it kills the Passat W8 and Phaeton sales in VW. But it's hard to compare the Audi and Acura brands because Audi is a recogized luxury brand selling expensive cars, while Acura is a not-quite-recoginized luxury brand which stops short at moving cars even at the RL price range.
Edward'TLS is offline  
Old 01-23-2007, 05:11 PM
  #195  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Age: 38
Posts: 5,577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Brand recognition / brand image sure kills the RL sales. Similarly, it kills the Passat W8 and Phaeton sales in VW. But it's hard to compare the Audi and Acura brands because Audi is a recogized luxury brand selling expensive cars, while Acura is a not-quite-recoginized luxury brand which stops short at moving cars even at the RL price range.
That's the truth. Audi, while being second, will get most of the credit due to the consumer knowing Quattro. Car enthusiasts like us aren't the average consumer
Maximized is offline  
Old 05-07-2007, 04:54 PM
  #196  
4G TL-Elilte, 3G MDX
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Richmond,B.C.,Canada
Posts: 9,157
Received 661 Likes on 525 Posts
Audi Seeks to Define Brand in U.S. - Wall Street Journal
By GINA CHON
May 7, 2007 3:34 p.m.

With a fleet of new models, Volkswagen AG's Audi brand has ambitious plans to accelerate out of the shadows of its luxury competitors. But first, it needs to explain to U.S. consumers just what an Audi is.

Audi is aiming to do just that with a new advertising campaign that kicked off Monday. The "Never Follow" tagline is gone, replaced with "Truth in Engineering," which is aimed at showing that Audis are what vehicles should be all about. The ads show how engineering results in a better driving experience when it comes to safety, quality and performance.

. . .
Audi finally drops its "Never Follow" slogan. In today's technological advanced auto world, one car company can come up with new features today, but tomorrow they'll be best by those from another company. "Never Follow" is too big a phase for even the biggest car companies like GM and Toyota to swallow, let alone the comparatively tiny Audi.
Edward'TLS is offline  
Old 03-21-2008, 06:16 PM
  #197  
Senior Moderator
 
Yumcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 147,156
Received 15,133 Likes on 9,392 Posts
Post Audi: S tronic - Direct Shift Gearbox for Longitudinal Applications

From here: http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publi...cle_3842.shtml

• News high-tech transmission with twin-clutch technology
• Shifts at lightning speed with high efficiency
• Suitable for longitudinal installation and quattro drive


Seven gears that shift at lightning speed without interrupting traction – Audi presents a new phase in the evolution of transmission systems. The seven-speed S tronic combines its dynamic working method with high efficiency. The new twin-clutch transmission is designed to work with longitudinally installed engines and the quattro all-wheel drive system, and its 550 Nm torque capacity makes it suitable for a wide range of sporty models. Audi will introduce the new S tronic into multiple model lines in series production during the course of this year.

With the seven-speed S tronic, Audi is launching a new phase in its drive strategy. The new transmission, which was developed entirely by Audi, is intended for the mid-range model lines. Audi has designed it to be sporty while also being a highly efficient high-tech component.

Audi drivers can use the new seven-speed S tronic in various modes. The fully automatic mode, in which the computer selects the gear, keeps the D (Drive) and S (Sport) programs available. The gears can also be manually switched with the shift selector lever or with the optional rocker switch on the steering wheel – an amazingly fast process.

The new high-tech transmission from Audi gives the driver a dynamic and comfortable sense of shifting with unsurpassed precision and perfection. It combines outstanding economy with superb agility and potential for sporty driving.

The seven-speed S tronic is composed of two transmission structures. It integrates two multidisk clutches that control different gears. The large K1 clutch located on the outside conducts the torque via a solid shaft to the gear wheels for the odd gears 1, 3, 5 and 7. They are located in the rear of the cast-aluminum transmission housing, toward the center of the vehicle.

A hollow shaft rotates around the solid shaft. It is connected to the smaller K2 clutch, which is integrated into the inside of its larger sibling, and which controls the gear wheels for the even gears 2, 4 and 6, as well as reverse gear. All gear wheels are located in a single row on both drive shafts, in the order 4, 6, 2, R, 1, 3, 7 and 5.

Both transmission structures are continuously active, but only one is powered at a time by the engine. For example, when the driver accelerates in third gear, the fourth gear is already engaged in the second transmission structure – lying in wait, so to speak. The switching process takes place as the clutch shifts – while K1 is opening, K2 closes at lightning speed. This process takes only a few hundredths of a second and is completed without interrupting traction. It is so comfortable and smooth that the driver hardly notices it.

The power flows from the drive shaft to the self-locking center differential of the quattro drivetrain, which distributes it into two directions. In the basic distribution, 60 percent of the torque flows over the cardan shaft to the differential for the rear axle, and 40 percent flows over a side shaft to the bevel gear of the front-axle differential. Because this shaft is installed at a 7.2 degree angle, it uses a slanted, beveloid gear. To reduce weight, it is also hollow.

The asymmetric-dynamic power distribution provides sporty and agile driving characteristics with slight emphasis on the rear end. When needed, the center differential can deliver up to 85 percent of the power to the rear axle or a maximum of 65 percent of the power to the front axle.

Typical Audi: uncompromising quality

Each component of the new seven-gear S tronic attests to Audi’s innovative way of thinking and to the company’s uncompromising quality standards. Carbon-coated synchronizer rings ensure synchronization of unsurpassed quality and stability. The gears one through three and reverse are also designed as three-cone synchronizations.

Highly precise management of both multidisk clutches was one of the most important development goals. This was achieved in part with a compact pressure cylinder, electronically controlled rotation speed compensation and the use of an optimized coil spring package. This package of technology provides maximum precision and comfort at startup and shifting.

The transmission is managed by the so-called mechatronic module. This module involves a compact group of control units and hydraulic control valves that is integrated on the left of the transmission when facing the direction of travel. Its control concept allows the speed of the gear shifting process to vary and extremely precise control of the power necessary for the process.

The required control pressure is provided by an efficiently operating oil pump that is located next to the mechatronic module and is driven by a gear section. The oil pump is supported by a vacuum booster for cooling the twin clutch during starting. This allows the amount of oil pumped to be roughly doubled as needed without increasing power.

A unique feature of the seven-speed S tronic is its two separate oil systems. While the twin clutch, mechatronic module and oil pump are supplied by their own oil circuit with seven liters of automatic transmission fluid (ATF) oil, the wheelsets and the central and front-axle differential are lubricated with about 4.5 liters of hypoid gear oil. This separation allowed the development engineers to position all of the components ideally, without being forced to compromise by using a single lubricant.

Audi has designed the new seven-gear S tronic to provide both exhilarating driving and consistent economy. The new high-tech engine is notable for its very high efficiency. Its highly intelligent controls also allow economical driving in automatic mode. The maximum possible transmission-ratio spread of 8.0:1 allows a sporty, short transmission ratio for the first gear as well as an rpm-sinking, long ratio for the last gear. The seven-speed S tronic is designed for up to 9,000 rpm and can transmit torque of up to 55 Nm.

Vorsprung durch Technik: the history of S tronic

Audi has led the march in the field of transmissions for many years. The introduction of quattro all-wheel drive in 1980 was a milestone in the history of automotive technology. And the S tronic is a prime example of the company's basic philosophy –

“Vorsprung durch Technik.”

The first Audi with a twin-clutch transmission was produced way back in November 1985 – the Sport quattro S1, which was driven by Walter Röhrl and his copilot Christian Geistdörfer in the World Rally Championships. Röhrl, the finest rally pilot of his time, described his 350 kW (476 hp) sports car as “a formidable thing” and a “natural phenomenon” – and the high-tech transmission provided him with even more powerful performance.

The twin-clutch transmission, which was controlled electrically with a short touch control lever in the S1, could shift through its five gears at lightning speed. Because the traction was not interrupted, the turbocharger for the five-cylinder engine remained constantly pressurized – a bypass in the engine’s airways supported this effect. A twin-clutch transmission was also on board the S1 during training for Röhrl’s victorious storming of the peaks during the 1987 Pikes Peak mountain race in Colorado.

The S tronic is one of the most versatile solutions in Audi's range of transmissions. In the spring of 2003, Audi introduced the technology in series production in the TT Coupe and Roadster, combined with the high-torque 3.2-liter V6 with 184 kW (250 hp). The ultra-compact twin-clutch transmission, designed for transverse installation with six gears, was the perfect complement to the powerful engine. TT pilots could use it in automatic mode or shift the gears by hand, either with the short shift selector lever or with rocker switches affixed behind the steering wheel.

In the past five years, the new technology in the TT and A3 has become firmly established – as dynamic high-tech alternatives to hand-shifting as well as being fully imbued with the positive attributes of a conventional geared automatic transmission. Due to its wide range of strengths, the S tronic is also available in the A3 with a TDI four-cylinder engine. By the end of 2007, Audi had produced 188,338 cars in both model lines with twin-clutch transmissions.

A wide-ranging program: the ideal solution for every need

Today, Audi has a wide-ranging portfolio of transmission technology options – five technologies with widely varying characteristics may now be selected to perfectly fulfill their specific range of applications. Aside from the sporty S tronic with six – and now seven – gears, Audi offers a classic manual transmission, an automatic R tronic, the comfortable tiptronic torque-converter transmission, and the versatile, continuously variable multitronic – at least two customized solutions are available for each model range. The common denominators among all of these transmissions are compact and light construction, high efficiency, precise functioning in extremely durable quality, and convenient and simple operation.

Manual shift transmissions are available in many of the model ranges, from the compact A3 to the A6, along with the TT, the Q7 and the R8; they are suitable for combination with front-wheel and quattro drives. In the A4 and A5 model lines, Audi has introduced a new generation of transmissions that are notable due to modified positioning of the differential and for their greatly reduced internal friction, which further improves efficiency. Most manual transmissions operate with six gears. In the A3 1.9 TDI e and A3 Sportback 1.9 TDI e, five-gear transmissions are used in which the upper gears feature a somewhat longer gear ratio – which helps sink consumption on average to an exemplary 4.5 liters of diesel per 100 km (52.27 mpg).

The sequential-shift R tronic with six gears is reserved exclusively for the R8; as befits the character of a supercar, the engineers have designed it to be especially dynamic. In the R tronic, hydraulic units manage activation of the gears and clutch, and the driver’s commands are transmitted electronically.

The tiptronic transmissions from Audi are found in all sedan model lines, from the A3 to the A8, as well as in the high-performance Q7 SUV, in combination with front-wheel or quattro drive. The great strength of this classic torque-converter transmission is in its highly convenient shifting. In order to improve this even further while also improving efficiency, in the latest configuration, engineers have modified the damping system in the torque converter. In addition, gear shifting is completed more swiftly.

The redesigned multitronic also features even greater efficiency and dynamics. The continuously variable transmission from Audi combines the advantages of manual gear shifting with the strengths of an automatic. As an especially comfortable driveline, the multitronic available in the A4, A5, A6 and A8 is paired with front-wheel drive. The new seven-gear S tronic developed by Audi, which will be introduced in series production in multiple models during the course of this year, is combined with quattro technology – Audi has designed it as a sporty and highly efficient high-tech transmission.
Yumcha is online now  
Old 03-22-2008, 03:59 AM
  #198  
styling on you
 
SeCsTaC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California
Age: 29
Posts: 5,275
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
A4 2.0T S-line w/ Quatro and the new S-tronic transmission please!
SeCsTaC is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 09:11 AM
  #199  
I'm the Firestarter
 
Belzebutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 11,297
Received 338 Likes on 207 Posts
Which Audis have the longitudinal engines?
Belzebutt is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 10:25 AM
  #200  
Registered Member
 
mrdeeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 41
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Belzebutt
Which Audis have the longitudinal engines?
i think all new ones except A3.
mrdeeno is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Audi: Development and Technology News


Contact Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.