Audi & BMW to follow Lexus in offering 8 Speed Autos

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-14-2008, 12:15 PM
  #1  
styling on you
Thread Starter
 
SeCsTaC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California
Age: 34
Posts: 5,274
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Audi & BMW to follow Lexus in offering 8 Speed Autos





Luxury car makers are always trying to top each other with each new generation of vehicles, and recently the battle for supremacy has moved to the arena of transmissions. In 2001, BMW added a six-speed automatic to its 7 Series sedan, and then Mercedes upped the ante with a seven-speed two years later. Currently Lexus holds the crown with its eight-speed unit in the LS sedan, but now BMW and Audi are fighting back, and according to reports will offer eight-speed transmissions as early as 2009.

Both automakers are apparently looking to ZF to develop the transmission technology, and the German company says that due to longer gear ratios its unit will offer 14 percent better fuel-economy than a regular five-speed auto. With the U.S. CAFE standards looming and stricter emission regulations coming for Europe as well, the ZF transmission is seen as a way for luxury brands to make their powerful sedans more efficient.

Due to cost the eight-speed will only be offered in top-line models at first, but should make its way across each automaker's lineup as it becomes more affordable. BMW is supposedly readying the unit for its new 7 Series in 2010, and will add it to the surprisingly popular X6 SAC as well. Speculation is that Audi could make the transmission available in the A8 and Q7 SUV by 2009, as well as Ingolstadt's answer to the Mercedes CLS, the new A7 four-door coupe.

For its part Mercedes is sticking with seven speeds for the moment, though the company's head of passenger car engines and powertrains has said that adding an eighth is certainly possible. Some may feel that eight-speeds aren't really necessary for everyday driving, but as fuel-economy standards tighten, anything that can improve the efficiency of large, powerful luxury sedans is welcome. The only question is if an automaker raises the stakes with a nine-speed unit, how long will it take for the competition to follow suit?

Where are the noobs that bashed Lexus for offering this first. :troutslap
Old 05-14-2008, 12:22 PM
  #2  
Senior Moderator
 
Crazy Bimmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Chicago Burbs
Age: 43
Posts: 34,937
Received 638 Likes on 276 Posts
I want a SAC :gheylaugh:
Old 05-14-2008, 02:00 PM
  #3  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,305
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
Originally Posted by SeCsTaC

Where are the noobs that bashed Lexus for offering this first. :troutslap

As the article points out the gain from a 5AT to the 8AT is only 14%. From most current 6ATs the gain would be in the low single digits and for MB there'd be virtually no gain from their 7AT. MB could gain 1-2% in fuel mileage (about the same gained by an extra gear) by just reprogramming their existing 7AT. This is mostly marketing BS.
Old 05-14-2008, 02:35 PM
  #4  
Time to Climb
 
godfather2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Little Rock, AR
Age: 43
Posts: 6,395
Received 47 Likes on 37 Posts
8 gears is overkill
Old 05-14-2008, 02:37 PM
  #5  
Race Director
 
Mokos23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Illinois
Age: 44
Posts: 10,741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
why do you need 8 speed autos?? for better fuel economy?
Old 05-14-2008, 03:25 PM
  #6  
2G TLX-S
 
Edward'TLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: YVR
Posts: 10,172
Received 1,133 Likes on 813 Posts
Yes, especially the way big displacement V8/V10/V12 engines burn gas zooming on the highways. They want the tallest gear ratio as possible to save gas. The CAFE fleet mileage rule is getting tougher and tougher.
Old 05-14-2008, 06:41 PM
  #7  
styling on you
Thread Starter
 
SeCsTaC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California
Age: 34
Posts: 5,274
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by godfather2
8 gears is overkill
How so?
Old 05-14-2008, 06:53 PM
  #8  
Race Director
iTrader: (1)
 
Trackruner228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte(home) /Raleigh (school), NC
Age: 35
Posts: 11,395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am waiting for Acuras Turbo V12 with a 10 speed auto.
Old 05-14-2008, 07:42 PM
  #9  
Some dude
 
MeehowsBRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,605
Received 347 Likes on 203 Posts
Originally Posted by Trackruner228
I am waiting for Acuras Turbo V12 with a 10 speed auto.

It's coming.
Old 05-15-2008, 12:48 AM
  #10  
how handsome I am
 
agranado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 39
Posts: 12,983
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by mikeschicagoRL
It's coming.

you'd better believe it.
Old 05-15-2008, 12:58 AM
  #11  
Senior Moderator
 
Ken1997TL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Better Neighborhood, Arizona
Posts: 45,634
Received 2,328 Likes on 1,308 Posts
8 gears IMO is only necessary for engines that have over 500 ft pounds of torque AND a wide torque curve.
Old 05-15-2008, 01:26 AM
  #12  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,305
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
Originally Posted by Ken1997TL
8 gears IMO is only necessary for engines that have over 500 ft pounds of torque AND a wide torque curve.
Not too many engines have that. More gears could also help a diesel which has a narrow RPM band - but again for car applications you don't need 8 gears. By the time you get to this many gears you might as well use a CVT.
Old 05-15-2008, 04:28 PM
  #13  
2G TLX-S
 
Edward'TLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: YVR
Posts: 10,172
Received 1,133 Likes on 813 Posts
Just for reference, the Lexus LS460 is the first car in the world with a computer-controlled eight-speed automatic transmission. The 4.6L-V8 is rated at 380hp and 367ft-lb of torque. The most amazing part is the fuel economy which is 27mpg EPA highway and 19mpg EPA city.

There's no cylinder de-activation, no electric hybrid motor. It's all the 8-speed transmission helping the hulking car to achieve this very respectable fuel economy numbers.
Old 05-15-2008, 04:32 PM
  #14  
The sizzle in the Steak
 
Moog-Type-S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 71,436
Received 1,877 Likes on 1,297 Posts
Perhaps Acura will offer a 6 speed AT by 2015
Old 05-15-2008, 06:37 PM
  #15  
2G TLX-S
 
Edward'TLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: YVR
Posts: 10,172
Received 1,133 Likes on 813 Posts
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
Perhaps Acura will offer a 6 speed AT and FSI direct injection by 2015
Fixed.
Old 05-15-2008, 07:26 PM
  #16  
Back in a TL again.
 
BENDER08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Find the Needle
Age: 37
Posts: 7,091
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...&products_id=8
Old 05-16-2008, 12:01 AM
  #17  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,305
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
^???
Old 05-16-2008, 07:17 AM
  #18  
Photography Nerd
 
Dan Martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto
Age: 43
Posts: 21,489
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 7 Posts
Have they given up on CVT's, or does the thought of a CVT just not sound sexy enough to the luxury crowd?
Old 05-16-2008, 11:17 AM
  #19  
99 TL, 06 E350
 
Black Tire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Age: 44
Posts: 5,030
Received 164 Likes on 110 Posts
my mountain bike has 21 speeds! Beat that bitches!
Old 05-17-2008, 09:57 AM
  #20  
Moderator Alumnus
 
gavriil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
The article writes:

"Both automakers are apparently looking to ZF to develop the transmission technology, and the German company says that due to longer gear ratios its unit will offer 14 percent better fuel-economy than a regular five-speed auto."

But the Germans do not say what is the % of improvement over a 6 speed or even a 7 speed box. Bottom line I think 8 speeds it's just too much.
Old 05-17-2008, 11:32 PM
  #21  
_____ like a rabbit
 
stangg172004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edgewater, Chicago, IL
Age: 36
Posts: 8,594
Received 12 Likes on 10 Posts
good bye manual tranny
Old 05-18-2008, 05:57 AM
  #22  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,305
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
Originally Posted by stangg172004
good bye manual tranny
No, but it won't go any higher than 6 gears.
Old 05-18-2008, 10:39 AM
  #23  
Moderator
 
Costco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 29,869
Received 3,489 Likes on 2,089 Posts
I think a car with an 8-speed auto and cylinder deactivation would bog at highway speeds running on only 4-cylinders at ~1000-1300rpm, wouldn't it? I know the transition from running on 4-cyls to 8 is almost seamless now, but still.

Really is overkill, but someone will probably do a 9-speed for the hell of it in the future. and IIRC they still can't build CVTs that are strong enough to handle a engine with a lot of torque (350+ lb/ft) someone correct me if I'm wrong?
Old 05-18-2008, 12:55 PM
  #24  
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
 
iforyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes on 518 Posts
^ I think it won't be long before Nissan comes out with a CVT that can handle that amount of torque as they seem to be fairly good with CVT.
Old 05-18-2008, 09:57 PM
  #25  
Moderator
 
SodaLuvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,965
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Have they given up on CVT's, or does the thought of a CVT just not sound sexy enough to the luxury crowd?
The CVT should fade away from the industry in the coming years. In general, the CVT no longer has it's main advantage--efficiency, when compared to a six-speed automatic. Previously with the four and five speed automatics, the CVT had an advantage with efficiency. Combine this with nagging reliability issues and a North American market that isn't "familiar" with the operation of one, and it's easy to see why the CVT is on its way out.
Old 05-19-2008, 12:09 AM
  #26  
Race Director
 
biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 14,305
Received 624 Likes on 503 Posts
Assuming they can build one to handle the loads, CVT should stay around not because fuel efficiency but because of cost - there's very little in term of parts in a CVT compared to say a 6AT. You know Nissan is all about cost cutting and they wouldn't be so big on the CVT if it didn't save a buck.
Old 05-19-2008, 12:11 AM
  #27  
Moderator
 
SodaLuvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,965
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by biker
Assuming they can build one to handle the loads, CVT should stay around not because fuel efficiency but because of cost - there's very little in term of parts in a CVT compared to say a 6AT. You know Nissan is all about cost cutting and they wouldn't be so big on the CVT if it didn't save a buck.
Efficiency is probably more important than cost to an automaker in this day and age. I really doubt that a CVT would cost less than a 6AT, think of the complicated electronics in the unit. Right now a replacement CVT costs about the same as a 6AT.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Yumcha
Automotive News
9
02-25-2020 09:57 AM
PortlandRL
Car Talk
2
09-14-2015 12:01 PM
oyayjoe
Member Cars for Sale
1
09-12-2015 04:40 PM
hand123
3G TL (2004-2008)
1
09-10-2015 09:29 AM
hand123
3G TL (2004-2008)
1
09-10-2015 09:27 AM



Quick Reply: Audi & BMW to follow Lexus in offering 8 Speed Autos



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:53 AM.