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Audi: A4, S4, RS4 News

Old 03-08-2005, 09:51 AM
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I forgot to mention in my haste to leave, the RS4 is the 2.7 purportedly in the neighborhood of 450hp, the M3's drivetrain is stock but is lightened. The RS4 has a modified suspension, the M3 is purportedly stock.

Vandy
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Old 03-27-2005, 08:22 PM
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S Line:





Source: www.channel4.com
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Old 03-27-2005, 08:33 PM
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It's so... so... bland.
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Old 05-05-2005, 11:36 AM
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Audi RS4 - - By Piers Ward - - Source: Autoexpress

It is difficult to imagine the world without quattro. Audi's all-wheel-drive system has made a huge impact on the high-performance car market, and is celebrating its 25th birthday in 2005.

Although originally developed to provide more traction for the German manufacturer's Eighties rally cars, the mechanical arrangement has been continually uprated ever since. It is now used on Audi's fastest and most luxurious models, machines that are unlikely ever to make a deliberate trip off-road.

In fact, there is even a separate company within Audi - quattro GmbH - responsible for turning out the fastest and most potent quattro-equipped cars. The RS-badged machines it builds are big news, so when Auto Express was invited to get behind the wheel of the latest RS4, we simply couldn't say no. Promising to be the fastest roadgoing A4 ever, the newcomer is one of the most spectacular-looking Audis built.

Finished in red, our test machine not only had enormous alloy wheels, but also flared arches and a gaping radiator grille trimmed in silver to set it apart from lesser models. At the rear, two huge exhausts and the distinctive red and silver RS badge add extra drama to the neatly chiselled boot.

But the RS4 is much more than just a piece of fine art; it is a technical wonder, too. Its normally aspirated engine delivers 414bhp, and is fitted with FSI direct-injection technology to give better economy as well as performance.

We didn't get much opportunity to measure the stunning newcomer's fuel consumption, but the RS4 is certainly fast - the four-wheel-drive system really helps traction off the line, so the sprint from 0-62mph is completed in a highly impressive 4.8 seconds.

Performance is boosted further by the addition of a new Sport button on the steering wheel. Press it, and drivers should notice a marked difference to the throttle response. It is sharp enough in normal mode, but with the system engaged the accelerator reacts rapidly to every single flex of your foot. On the track, this is fine - although for normal road driving it could prove tiring.

In-gear punch is particularly good, however, and when you push on to the 8,250rpm red line - one of the highest for a V8 - the noise is simply incredible. At high speeds, the engine note settles down to a distant rumble, so the RS4 will not wear drivers out too much on long motorway journeys. What is not so clear is the new car's ride quality, as our early first drive was confined to a smooth race track - so we will reserve judgement until it comes to the UK.

The transformation Audi has made to the handling is much more obvious. We drove the RS4 back-to-back with an S4, and there is a marked difference between the two; the former feels far sharper and more responsive to steering inputs. The chassis balance has been improved, too, so it does not feel as nose-heavy as the lesser model and understeer does not set in as early; there is lots of grip from the four-wheel drive, and the huge brakes stop the car efficiently.

Overall, the RS4 is a spectacular demonstration of the quattro system, as well as the company's performance engineering prowess. If this is the way Audi celebrates every quattro birthday, there should be some happy drivers out there for years to come.
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Old 05-05-2005, 11:37 AM
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This thing will run the 60 at 4.5 secs consistently.
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Old 05-05-2005, 12:09 PM
  #366  
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Sounds pretty sweet. Hopefully it won't be 70K or I don't see 'many' people buying it.
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Old 05-05-2005, 01:32 PM
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meh, my friend has an upgraded turbo and chipped 00 S4 with around 600 horses was less expensive and faster than this 70k RS4.
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Old 05-05-2005, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cob3683
Sounds pretty sweet. Hopefully it won't be 70K or I don't see 'many' people buying it.

I dont see why not, i mean the BMW CSL sells.....

Plus im sure this will be a limited run like the CSL.
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:48 PM
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2005 M3 starts at 48k + 4k club sport package (w/ CSL goodies) =
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Old 05-07-2005, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bigman
meh, my friend has an upgraded turbo and chipped 00 S4 with around 600 horses was less expensive and faster than this 70k RS4.
yeah but does he have a warranty...ahaa!!

j/k
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Old 05-07-2005, 12:09 AM
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i would buy it if it was $55-60K.
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Old 05-29-2005, 09:48 PM
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OK so after my test drive of the G35C 6MT a few days ago, then a day later, after test-driving the SLK350, I stopped at the Audi (Continental Audi of Naperville) to check out an S4. It was not difficult to convince the rep for a test drive quickly, but it was obvious that he wanted me to know of the price of the vehicle before he brought the keys.

This is my second S4 test drive, only the previous car was of the previous generation. The one with that lovely 2.7TT V6 and the manual. Overall, I loved that car's driving character and drivetrain.

I get in and am, once again, welcomed by the warm and very carefully executed Audi A4/S4 interior. What is it about Audi interiors that makes them so warm? I try to answer that every time I sit into one of them. For some reason I find the A4's interior warmer that that of the A8's. I said warmer, not more qualitative, etc.

Whatever the answer, I am sure it's complicated. It's not one thing. It's the attention to all details that Audi engineers pay.

If I had to pick any knits about this interior it would be that I would design the center console to be slanted, like in our CLS, or even more slanted, like in the NSX. I love that design. I think it makes ergonomic sense plus it looks better. Of course, as always, looks are subjective so...feel free to hate it.

Ergonomically this car is superior to the SLK. No doubt. Interior-quality wise, a whole level up, compared to the SLK again. But I am comparing apples and oranges. Or am I? After all they are both luxury vehicles, similarly priced and sport is a top priority to their character. So what if one has room for 2 or 3 more passengers and two extra doors. Whatever the case, I dont want you to think that the SLK has a cheap and un-qualitative interior. After all, roadsters can get away with spartan, or less carefully done interiors, than...say a luxury sport sedan would.

For some reason this $52500 MSRPed S4 was not equipped with a moonroof (or a sunroof for that matter). Weird but true. The rep said not to worry, we will get you any S4 you want when you're ready to buy. We'll find it for you.

The other big disappointment of any A4 is rear legroom. I dont know who within VW thinks they can have two adults sitting one behind the other in this car. This car's legroom availability is close to what our (coupe) CLS is.

I really did not spend much time checking the interior further because that was not my priority for this car. "OK Audis have great interiors. What else is there?"...was the thought. So I paid more attention to the drivetrain and driving character of this car.

I start the engine and I can tell from the sound that this is a V8 in there. It does not sound like American V8s but I can tell this is not 4 or 6 cyl. engine.

We start to move and right away I know that this steering belongs to the A4. Not the S4. At least not the imaginary S4 I have in my head. The steering is...lacking. Lacking what exactly? Well, the feeling one gets from the steering is not what a sports sedan should...provide. And that's not my opinion but it's a result from me comparing it to the competition. One can call it, fact. Now liking this or not and how much is part of the opinion, but I am sure most here will agree that this steering has nothing to do with the feel one gets from a 330 or a G35, sedan or coupe.

Contrasting the disappointment of the steering feel, was the feel of the stick. Wow! This is the smoothest stick I have ever felt! Maybe...too soft? The length of the throws is OK for the character of this car.

The clutch pedal also felt pretty light. I have felt lighter but only in small European cars. Overal this will be one of the easiest cars to shift during stop and go traffic. The clutch is not as progressive as that of the GTO's for example, but overall better than the SLK's case.

When the light turn yellow in front of me, I find the first opportunity to feel the engine's pull. I WOT it and.... Well... Hesitation! Wait, did I write...hesitation? As in...the S4's engine hesitated? This is not the S4 with the dual turbos, is it?

I swear to God, this engine, of this particular S4 I drove, hesitated like there was a huge turbo in there or an old low tech auto tranny. There was a clear and significant lag from 10% throttle to 70% throttle situations or even from 10% T to WOT! It happened again and again.

Bottom line, the gas pedal was very...insensitive to the driver's requests. There was very little connection there.

OK what else?

Well, the engine did not feel strong at all as far as the bottom part of the rev range is concerned. You could tell this engine was designed to be a screamer engine. I tried it again and again. The SLK350 pulls a lot harder down low. And the Z350 is in a class of its own, was the thought. Excluding weight and other factors of course. ANd I am sure the AWD does not help the S4's case in this respect.

But still, this is a 4.2L engine. You expect more torque down low than what this felt like.

OK so what about the mid and upper range? Well... In brief...nothing to write home about really. I can hear you all wonder...REALLY? Yeah... I mean dont get me wrong, this is not a bad engine, but overall the feeling it gave me, left me wanting for more. For a LOT more. I mean you look at the specs and you expect something similar to those specs. Not even close in my case folks. Maybe there was something wrong with the car, but I had a similar feeling from the GTO's engine (without the hesitation). The 5.7 engined GTO, that is. It felt a lot smaller of an engine. Hopefully the 6.0 has improved the car.

The only good thing about this S4 engine was its lenearity at mid and high rpm. It pulls hard at the upper band, but it does not even sound good doing it. This engine's sound is so uninspiring...this engine belongs to the A4. Seriously.

There is nothing to excite about this engine overall folks, is the bottom line.

So I am thinking at this point....what we have here is a steering that does not feel sporty, an engine that feels like nothing special and a super friendly stick and clutch package with a great interior and a ton of sound proofing, hence isolation from the road.... I am sorry but not only this is no sports car, but this is a sedan for someone in their mid 40s who has a couple of kids and needs some excitement than a Camry provides, but mostly piece.

Not the car for me. No doubt.

By the way, on top of all that this rep was not saying one word about the car during all that time. Not one thing. Just to help me find something to help me like this car.

Oh yes, he said the rear seats backs fold. And he tried to praise the AWD on this car telling me inaccuracies and stories about it that sounded like fishermen or hunters were talking. "I caught a whale once all by myself the other day in my 6 foot long boat!". THat's how he presented the AWD of the S4. Very cheesy and un-Audi like.

So at that point I felt that there is no reason to continue to be careful about figuring this car out. I lost interest and was very disappointed because this is a lot of car for the price. On paper! It already starts with a huge disadvantage for me anyway and that is its four doors...

I will leave the outside looks last because I checked that last during the whole experience. The new look is absolutely a step ahead for me. A huge step ahead. Looks are subjective of course but I always thought that previous A4s were way too conservative. Actually all Audis looked too conservative to me. Now they look better. There is still room for improvement certainly...

I guess I now undestand why Audi was very clear about not making sure the market thought that this car is a direct competitor to the M3. That message was clear to me when this S4 was unveiled but I still expected it to be sportier, edgier. I also understand why Audi went with the addition of the RS4 lineup for the USA. Hopefully that is more of an M3 competitor. But you should know that the S4 is more like what the Type S is to the base/premium CL. I think that's a fair analogy.

Finally, the previous S4 was a lot edgier than this current S4. I liked that car better than the 330i, IS330 and CLS back then. But it was 14K more than the CLS so I could not justify the price. So it was eliminated on value reasons.

Things (to me) got worse for AUdi, when we went in for the needed contact info exchange and manager talk session. What is that? Well this particular dealer has ONE person that talks to customers about pricing. That came out of my request about possible flexibility on the MSRP. Simple question. I told him I dont need a price, but just an idea. The rep brought his manager for that. His manager was talking like he was selling Kias, no offense to Kia. Maybe worse. He was a huge asshole who does not belong working in an Audi dealership. But as I said in the SLK thread, this is not the first time I come across very low quality sales people in Audi dealerships, so Audi probably deserves "negative press" since they choose to hire and keep people like that. If it's repetative, it's probably the norm and a trend.

The quest for a successor to the CLS continues. Maybe next. I will keep in touch of course.
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Old 05-29-2005, 10:06 PM
  #373  
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Nice review gavrill.

So, when are you going to test drive the RS6?
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Old 05-29-2005, 10:17 PM
  #374  
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Originally Posted by MSZ
Nice review gavrill.

So, when are you going to test drive the RS6?
Hehe... I dont expect to get as lucky as getting a chance to testdrive that car.
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Old 05-29-2005, 10:34 PM
  #375  
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Hehe... I dont expect to get as lucky as getting a chance to testdrive that car.
Gav, have you ever driven a C55? Just curious because its in the same market as the S4 and most reports like it much more than the S4.
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Old 05-29-2005, 10:34 PM
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Was the manager named Tim?

Anyways, i agree 100% with your review. The steering is def not tight like a 330, of course im comparing this to my A4. Also your analogy is right on to me, the S4 isnt much different than a A4 as it should. They really should have done more like how the 330 and the M3 are.
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Old 05-29-2005, 11:53 PM
  #377  
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Gavriil, your reviews are great to read. I'm also considering the S4. I went to check it out at the Audi dealership this pass Friday and I really did not like how the salesman were. I didn't like how the environment was in the dealership.


I also went to check out the S60R. The people at the Volvo dealership were nice and very friendly.
The seats in the S60R are really comfortable. They didn't have a S60R for test drive and I didn't want them to take the one in the showroom out for me to testdrive.

Do you think you can do a testdrive review on the S60R?

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Old 05-30-2005, 12:26 AM
  #378  
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you can get a s60R for 15k less than a s4
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Old 05-30-2005, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cob3683
Gav, have you ever driven a C55? Just curious because its in the same market as the S4 and most reports like it much more than the S4.

You know when I went in for the SLK350 test, I saw a C55 in the showroom retainling for about $57K. I believe I mention this in my SLK review....I sat inside and was very disappointed at the lack of attention to detail with certain interior pieces as far as lack of quality. Some were so loose, they felt they'd be ready to fall after a few times of use. Yes it was that bad. That's not to say that the whole interior felt that way.

Certainly I'd be interested to find out how this car drives but the fact that it's only available with a 5 speed auto (if I remember correctly the 7G Tronic did not make it in this car), certainly, in theory, ruins the whole experience potentially.
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Old 05-30-2005, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 6mtV6
Gavriil, your reviews are great to read.
Thank you!
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Old 05-30-2005, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 6mtV6
Gavriil, your reviews are great to read. I'm also considering the S4. I went to check it out at the Audi dealership this pass Friday and I really did not like how the salesman were. I didn't like how the environment was in the dealership.


I also went to check out the S60R. The people at the Volvo dealership were nice and very friendly.
The seats in the S60R are really comfortable. They didn't have a S60R for test drive and I didn't want them to take the one in the showroom out for me to testdrive.

Do you think you can do a testdrive review on the S60R?

Since I was so disappointed at the S4, the S60R certainly makes sense for an effort to test drive. I have driven the S60 and S80 cars several times before as rentals. Volve seats are always top notch no matter how "base" the trim of the car. Certainly one more car for the list, why not...
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Old 05-30-2005, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Infamous425
you can get a s60R for 15k less than a s4
I dont doubt that at all. THe value of the S60R approaches that of a Mustang GT, or a 300C or SRT8 cars. When the HP claim was announced it sounded promising, but by the time it came out, it already sounded like it needed more power. Of course that's all on paper.
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Old 05-30-2005, 11:59 AM
  #383  
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Originally Posted by gavriil
You know when I went in for the SLK350 test, I saw a C55 in the showroom retainling for about $57K. I believe I mention this in my SLK review....I sat inside and was very disappointed at the lack of attention to detail with certain interior pieces as far as lack of quality. Some were so loose, they felt they'd be ready to fall after a few times of use. Yes it was that bad. That's not to say that the whole interior felt that way.

Certainly I'd be interested to find out how this car drives but the fact that it's only available with a 5 speed auto (if I remember correctly the 7G Tronic did not make it in this car), certainly, in theory, ruins the whole experience potentially.
I remember reading that now

And I agree on the C55's interior. It didn't feel as solid as the 32 did when I looked at it and I believe MB didn't do what they should have with it.

Have you considered looking at an M3 at all?
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Old 05-30-2005, 12:01 PM
  #384  
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Originally Posted by cob3683
I remember reading that now

And I agree on the C55's interior. It didn't feel as solid as the 32 did when I looked at it and I believe MB didn't do what they should have with it.

Have you considered looking at an M3 at all?

The M3 is definitely on the list. No doubt.
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Old 05-30-2005, 12:33 PM
  #385  
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Originally Posted by gavriil
I dont doubt that at all. THe value of the S60R approaches that of a Mustang GT, or a 300C or SRT8 cars. When the HP claim was announced it sounded promising, but by the time it came out, it already sounded like it needed more power. Of course that's all on paper.
true, but like the audi turbo-4's you can also chip the volvo
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Old 05-30-2005, 06:44 PM
  #386  
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Weird, i had a S4 avant today and the steering was really loose also. Nothing like my A4
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Old 05-30-2005, 08:34 PM
  #387  
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Hmmm. I was really impressed by the S4 when I drove it.

I dont find the S4 interior to be "warm" but its not terrible. I do have beef with the damn parking brake always knocking into the armrest...and they do this with the A3 too.....dumbest fucking design flaw coming from Germans who are the apitomy of over engineering.

But I thought the engines had plenty of on demand power with no hesitation.

The gearbox....smooth when going, but one of the most difficult I found to get out of 1st with. Needs a shorter throw.

Handling...I cant remember, and it was rainy out when I drove it, but it took the twisties nice, and steering felt fine to me. I'd have to drive it again to see about this one. You are most likely correct.

But.....even though in my posted review I said nice but I'd never own one.....I keep thining about the damned things........
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Old 05-30-2005, 08:46 PM
  #388  
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Originally Posted by The Sarlacc
I do have beef with the damn parking brake always knocking into the armrest...and they do this with the A3 too.....dumbest fucking design flaw coming from Germans who are the apitomy of over engineering.
Germans are terrible with ergonomics. No surprise there.
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Old 05-30-2005, 08:49 PM
  #389  
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Germans are terrible with ergonomics. No surprise there.
I cant even chalk the p-brake up to horrid ergonomics....its just flat out bad design.

If they would get rid of the stupid chair attatched armrest/console and integrate it into the center stack of the car, then it would be a non-issue. I dont like the whole "swing" armrest:

1) its just a bad design that does not fit with the rest of the car (ie: being in the way of the p-brake)

2) its way to reminiscent of VW....which I know they are the same company....but dont make it so obvious.
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Old 05-30-2005, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by The Sarlacc
I cant even chalk the p-brake up to horrid ergonomics....its just flat out bad design.

If they would get rid of the stupid chair attatched armrest/console and integrate it into the center stack of the car, then it would be a non-issue. I dont like the whole "swing" armrest:

1) its just a bad design that does not fit with the rest of the car (ie: being in the way of the p-brake)

2) its way to reminiscent of VW....which I know they are the same company....but dont make it so obvious.
Ah yes the swing armerst! I forgot to mention how annoying that was. IN order to be rest, one has to raise it all the way up and down again. Terrible ergonomics.
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Old 05-30-2005, 09:40 PM
  #391  
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Originally Posted by cob3683
I would take this way before this new one
In the last few days I saw a few last-gen A4's with a really nice body kit, it had to be OEM. It looked so good with this subtle body-coloured spoiler instead of the black cladding.

But I do think the new one looks hot.
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Old 05-31-2005, 10:52 AM
  #392  
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Audi RS4 - - Whole Shot: Is the new RS4 an M3 beater? - - By DAVID VIVIAN - Source: Autoweek




AUDI RS4
ON SALE: Spring 2006
BASE PRICE: $78,000 (est.)
POWERTRAIN: 4.2-liter, 418-hp, 317-lb-ft V8; awd, six-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT: 3850 lbs (est.)
0 to 60 MPH: 4.5 seconds


...

Itís why Audi invited us to participate in an exploration of the car even Audi critics are viewing with hushed disbelief. We hope to find out whether a major upset is in the cards.

The mission looks achievable on paper. The hardware is unrelenting, but peaks with the engine. By crowning its naturally aspirated 4.2-liter V8 (already a formidable performer in the tamer S4) with FSI direct-injection technology, Audi has created a powerplant with phenomenal abilities.

The engine develops an M3-withering 418 hp at 7800 rpm and cracks 100 hp per liter. It delivers 90 percent of its 317 lb-ft (at 5500 rpm) of torque peak between 2250 and 7600 rpm. The rev limiter is set at a barely believable 8250 rpm. And if you think the 4.5 seconds Audi claims for the 0-to-60-mph sprint is impressive, 0 to 124 mph in 16.6 seconds turns the M3 into a distant spectator.

The six-speed manual transmissionís ratios are closely spaced and can be made to seem more vivid still when you thumb the Sport button on the cross spoke of the steering wheel and the throttle control mapping is adjusted to give sharper responses.


The Torsen differential has been reworked for a 60 percent bias toward rear-drive, giving crisper turn-in, a more neutral cornering balance, great attitude adjustability with the throttle and the elimination of power understeer, according to Horst Glaser, head of the RS4ís chassis development. The Elec-tronic Stability Program has been reprogrammed to intervene later and for a shorter time than on a regular A4.

The RS4 sits an inch lower than a standard A4 and the suspension, hood and front fenders are aluminum. The substitution of ultra-light RS buckets keeps weight down to 3850 pounds.

The car looks terrific, riding on gorgeous 19-inch, six-spoke alloys behind which the huge discs and calipers (eight-piston at the front) gleam. The bodyís bulges are in all the right places. Inside the cues are dramatic, from the silver starter button on the center console to the carbon fiber trim.

The RS4 feels different. Neck muscles conditioned by the S4 ill prepare you for just how hard this thing goes. Surging out of the pits, the S4ís impressive tug is replaced by something approaching physical violence. It isnít so much the way the RS4 hits its accelerative stride as the way it sustains it gear after gearóhuge, linear thrust meets an intoxicating V8 bellow; not a bad combo. In this respect the presence of an M3 is unnecessaryóit would be going backward, quite quickly.


Impressive, too, is the way the RS4 carries more speed than the S4 through the bends, and with so little roll. It steers precisely, but isnít edgy. Keep things around seven-tenths and itís all quite neat and predictable. For once the all-wheel drive isnít intrusive, it just seems to extend the reach of the remarkable performance. Steering feel? Certainly, but itís hard to say how informative on such a smooth surface. Throttle adjustability? Despite what seems to be a keener turn-in, not that much.

Not to underplay what it can do around this circuit. Audi staged a convincing introduction to its would-be champ. As well as extraordinary grip, the RS4 has a fluent way of stringing together combinations of bends, incisive yet composed. And, pushing much harder, it refuses to be ruffled, even if the phenomenon of power understeer Glaser talks of isnít completely banished.

So yes, Audi succeeded in dialing more neutrality into the RS4ís chassis. And yes, the RS4 has more finely resolved behavior on the limit. On a challenging road, especially one dampened by the mist of an autumn evening, we canít see the M3 getting the better of it point to point. As for which driver would be having the more engaging and rewarding drive, letís just say weíre looking forward.
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Old 05-31-2005, 10:55 AM
  #393  
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So Audi makes an M3 competitor that will probably be $15,000 more than the next M3 and about $20,000 more than the current model?
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Old 05-31-2005, 10:57 AM
  #394  
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If the RS4 comes in at $78k.......Audi better be building very few of them.

Because its going to be a tough sell, that's expensive for a crazy A4.
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:01 AM
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Damn...$78K? I think Audi needs to figure out how not to price itself right out of the market. That's just nuts.

And the fact that the car weighs in at a hefty 3850 lbs isn't going to help any.
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:04 AM
  #396  
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Originally Posted by cob3683
So Audi makes an M3 competitor that will probably be $15,000 more than the next M3 and about $20,000 more than the current model?

Good question but I think the answer will wildly disappoint all of us. It looks like our beloved M3 will be even more unreachable for most when its price is unveiled. The above means that the next M3 will be at least 10K-15K more expensive than the current M3. We saw the same thing happen with the M5.

I am sure what BMW is thinking is: Well you guys will get the 335i which will be offering 9/10s of the acceleration of the M3 for 3K less than the current M3. Or something similar to that.
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:06 AM
  #397  
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Whats the diff between an RS4 and S4?
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dom
Whats the diff between an RS4 and S4?
S4 = 4.2L V8 with 340 bhp and 7000-ish RPM redline and equal split quattro.

RS4 = 4.2L V8 with 418 bhp and 8250 RPM redelin and rear-wheel biased quattro.
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Old 06-01-2005, 12:39 PM
  #399  
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way too much money IMO
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Old 06-01-2005, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
S4 = 4.2L V8 with 340 bhp and 7000-ish RPM redline and equal split quattro.

RS4 = 4.2L V8 with 418 bhp and 8250 RPM redelin and rear-wheel biased quattro.

Well. I'd say there are a few more differences between the two cars other than the ones mentioned above
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