emperuman

Once again u read me wrong. I was not saying there is no way a Turbo TSX will happen. I was saying there is no way a Turbo-TSX with SH-AWD will happen, bec. Acura has already said that SH-AWD requires V6 engines.

ClutchPerformer

What was the reasoning for that?

srika

When I said "Turbo TSX" I meant TSX SH-AWD Turbo but I didn't wanna type all that out, but I guess I should have because look at what I am having to do here now...

srika

yeah I'm with you ClutchPerformer..... what the hell does this mean??!?!??!

gavriil

True. I am changing the subject to AWD. Thanks.

gavriil

I am pretty sure that we will see IMA and AWD in the TL which will up it to 300HP. Same for the RL. We'll see 330+ on the IMA RL.

heyitsme

I'd like to see the article. Have a feeling its a case of a story being told so many times that its now a new story.

gavriil

That wont happen with FWD nor AWD.

Collective27

They already have a turbo from the factory the honda waverunner the F12-x and R12-X have turbos from the factory....not a car but still from the honda factory

phile

LOL and even RWD won't guarantee it. Just look at certain RWD cars from certain Japanese brands that have tried dethroning the 3-Series.

gocubsgo55

Realistically, the IS300 can't compete as it is right now with the 3. Even the G35C 6MT can't touch the beautiful handling of a 330ci.

I have a feeling the new IS will be a huge step towards dethroning the 3.

jiggaman

no shit huh, i never really thought about that. goddamn jetskis get hooked up but not their cars. that's not cool.

heyitsme

Think the is300 and g35 both beat the 3-series in the rags once upon a time. I think once the new is300 comes out and when infiniti redoes the g and even when the cts gets redone the 3-series will have its hands full just like the 5-series will in a few months.

Zapata

3 series has done well because the competition has sucked ass. G35 is too heavy and BMW already taking to steps to lighten the load so to speak. IS300.....contender but so for lexus hasn't decided to throw anything more than i6 that can barely inch out honda's i4.

TSX chasis is strong. SHAWD and boost of power will really make the car come alive. Remember large portion is about marketing.....Acura is pushing the performance and percision. SHAWD meets both themes. TSX is selling very very well. I'd say they are taking buyers away from the lower end 3 series....of course the loyal fan base will stay loyal but new buyers.....is a different story.

gavriil

True. Like Panke told me with 100% confidence. One cannot copy another.

gavriil

No one came closer than the G35C though.

gavriil

Nice post Zap.

LiQiCE

These are obviously just all rumors and speculation right now ... There's no credible source talking about this stuff. But here's what I've heard ...

Back last summer, a Moderator on ClubRSX went to Japan to visit his family. He claimed his grandfather is a retired executive from Honda and that he was getting a special VIP tour of Honda's HQ. He had pictures from his trip to Japan, including some cool modded cars and some pictures of Honda's historical "museum" at their HQ. What he also said was that he was given the opportunity to test drive a JDM Honda Accord 6 speed with a 2.4L Turbocharged engine and VTM-4 (the AWD system available in the CRX). He said it was a test mule and they were trying to determine how it performed. The claim was for 250hp from the 2.4L Turbo.

From what I understand, the JDM/EU Accord / USDM TSX platform already supports VTM-4 AWD, and Honda has made Turbos in the past just not in the United States. The Euro Accord Diesel Turbo is an example.

Obviously this again is pure speculation, but the rumor of an AWD Turbocharged TSX has been floating around for awhile. Who knows if this time its just a rehash of the old rumor or if it in fact gives the rumor more credibility. I would imagine if we saw anything like that happen, it would be for MY07 (September 2006) when the TSX should be getting a refresh.

Personally, when I'm looking to replace my '03 TL-S in a few years I'd put an AWD Turbo TSX at the top of my list if it were available.

Oh, there's also a rumor of a 2.4L Civic Type R putting out 240hp NA. So its always possible for the refreshed TSX to get a 2.4L 240hp NA engine too. I can only dream of Honda putting the new 2.4L Civic Type R engine *and* Turboing it. Would be way too much to ask I think

Zapata

Don't get me wrong. 3 series is a performer without a doubt. BMW hasn't stagnated in the evolution of the car. There is a true commitment to success which is evident by the car's continued success but when Planke says one can not copy another.....i don't buy it. It can easily be done and moreover can be done better. Product evolution is about innovation and invention. 3 series has alot to offer but also has baggage. If lexus would wake up and offer more of a performance oriented engine in the is300 line the consumer would have performance and reliability.

heyitsme

I agree up until recently the 3-series was best because there was no other. Now its a fine line and mostly opinion that seperates the best cars. A lot of people still consider the 3 to be best due to the marketing of "ultimate driving machine" be pushed into their heads for so long or because one car might have rwd even though a fwd competitor is right up there and others think another brand is best because they are sick of bmw, etc. But considering in the past no car really topped the bmw3 and today cars have topped its performance, I think its hard to say the bmw3 is 'the best', they are 'one of the best' now.

There also seems to be a quote from motortrend march05 floating around "In the same way the Infiniti G35 targeted and surpassed 3 Series in driving dynamics and value for dollar" - some will agree some won't, but again the 3 can't really be best if its so debatable which car actually is the best performing luxury sedan.

As far as weights, can't say its fair to compare cts/g35/tl weights to the 330 because the 330 is practically the size of a civic where the others are clearly larger cars, like comparing a tsx to a tl, and the new 3 may have components in it to lighten the load but I don't think the car is any lighter.

Zapata

welp put.

gavriil

You mean in the MDX?

gavriil

Other than the diesel example, where turbocharging is pretty much necessary these days, I dont remember of any other turbo honda mass produced engine offered for the European market. Do you?

gavriil

For a Civic, 2.4 liters and turbocharged is way too much torque. 2.4 liters NA is probably enough. But I would believe a 1.6 liter turbo engine or a max of 2 liters force-fed. No more.

LiQiCE

Errr ... yeah not CRX hahah, I meant the CR-V ... Only off by one letter!

Unfortunately I don't have any specific examples, but the kid over at ClubRSX took pictures of a Japanese Honda van that was turbo charged. This is all pretty much hear-say though unless someone can back me up with some more info... and google didn't give me much in terms of hits except for people who had added a turbo aftermarket.

Sorry, should have been clearer, I meant it'd be sweet for the TSX to get the Civic Type R 2.4L 240hp NA engine and have it be turbocharged. I highly doubt this would happen ... but one can dream, can't they?

LiQiCE

Actually here's one ...

Browsing Honda of Japan's website, they sell a car called the Hobio which includes a turbo and an intercooler on some models.

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/h...ata/index.html

Another model, called the "That's TURBO":

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/t...ata/index.html

And one called the "Life" :

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/l...ata/index.html

Not an overwhelming majority ... but you can see that Honda does make some production line turbo cars.

gavriil

Right but how much of that is offered to the European market?

biker

None.

LiQiCE

Yeah probably none. But why is that significant? I'm not sure I follow you.

I just think its interesting that people have said Honda has never done a production turbo when in fact they have ... They just aren't available in the US (or Europe). I'll skip counting the Diesel Turbo Accord since its not a "regular" engine that runs on regular unleaded.

gavriil

Because you wrote the following (above):

LiQiCE

Huh? I said that Honda has made turbos in the past, just not in the USA. Japan being somewhere other than the USA, and I used the Euro Diesel Turbo Accord as an example that I could think of off the top of my head.

I found some other examples of turbo Hondas that are sold in Japan. The fact that they aren't sold in Europe doesn't really make a difference in what I said, does it? ... My point was that many people say that Honda doesn't make production cars with turbos when this is in fact false. They do make production cars with turbos, they just sell them in other countries like Japan.

No offense intended in any of this post ... I just didn't understand why you commented that the cars I listed weren't sold in Europe. And what I originally said didn't have anything specifically to do with Europe either other than that Europe has the Diesel Turbo Accord.

gavriil

Sorry, obviously a miscommunication here.

sauceman

I find that pretty interesting to have a K24A2 turbo engine, although I too have a hard time believing it.

I wonder if they'd keep the same CR and combine with a modified head to accomodate direct injection ( https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/direct-injection-honda-way-291013/ ) if they could run high boost, like in the 10-13 PSI. I would expect so, and with maybe a very reasonnable fuel consumption...

Zapata

think the boost would be that high? Pretty amazing what the J32 will do such little pressure.

sauceman

Not to get to (only) 250hp. It would just require a mere 4-5 PSI with DI and a revised and improved fuel map.

Imagine what 13 PSI would take it to though...


sauceman who is now celebrating 4000 non-whoring posts..

Zapata

- ah yeas i was gonna say.....13PSI and SHAWD.....omg lol......you'd here a collective from the automotive industry

- congrats!!!! non-whoring is the only way to go

cob3683

The TSX would really be an awesome car if they choose to do this. Remains to be seen but I hope they do because then they'll start tinkering with everything else.

goldmemberer

I was thinking about the E55 AMG today and how I like it and maybe will someday own something similar... perhaps the "E55" of my day. Then I thought... it's too big for me. I'd prefer something smaller that was fast, reliable, luxurious, handled well, and most importantly, had a manual tranny.

That's not too much to ask for. The TSX would be all that and a bag of chips if it were boosted and AWD. It's not the most luxurious thing in the world but it's enough for me for now.

Dan Martin

Our Japanese member Coupe-Camper was kind enough to scan an article from "Car Top" magazine which claims that a turbo version of the TSX will be shown at the Tokyo Motor show this fall.

Here is the article and magazine cover (in case you read Japanese):






Also on his site are rumors dating back to March 7 2004 of a turbocharged Euro-R but it was probably being used as a test mule for another platform (maybe RDX?):

cob3683

A turbo TSX would be awesome provided they don't call it an A-Spec package