savage

don't forget RWD and AWD as an option...

odessa

Couldn't agree more, I drive 2004 TSX and I am ready to upgrade. I will wait till October 2007, but if Acura does not release new TSX, I will buy 2008 G35S. I suspect that there are quite a few others waiting on new model TSX, but they may not wait another year.

gocubsgo55

no, i'm looking more for a small 3.0L Turbocharged V6 that gives out about 350 HP and 350 lb./ft. torque. But Acura is still going to keep it FWD, for cost purposes.

dom

2 more things to consider. By most accounts, the next TSX will not be another re-badged Euro Accord. Not sure I believe that but hopefully thats true. I would a worst expect unique sheetmetal. In that case a Paris intro of the Euro Accord won't mean much for the TSX.

2nd, TSX sales are still on the rise despite it being in its 4th year and despite increased competition. Its found a nice little niche at 27-30K. So as long as sales remain strong (which is likely for another year) Honda isn't losing much by keeping it around alittle while longer.

Where you have a point, both the TSX and Euro accord are made in the same plant so it would only make sense that they cutover production of both when they start assembling the Euro Accord.

Is there a definitive launch schedule for the Euro/Japan Accord?

biker

But those sales have come at a cost - heavy discounting. Honda extended the $1000 rebate on the leftover 06s, has lease deals on the 07s and will probably continue to prop up sales for the remainder of the MY. Yes, it's still selling well and it has a nice niche, but milking that for another year is risky.

biker

If that were true it would finally lend some credence to the marketeers claim that Acura is distancing itself from Honda. Sheet metal changes are not cheap and is one of the most obvious ways to differentiate models. I assume all along the interior will be different between the TSX and Euro Accord.

Brandon24pdx

If Acura was smart they'd keep the sheetmetal changes subtle and refined ala the new G35 Sedan, (which has been very well received), then bump the power on the base K24 FWD setup by 5-10 to 210-215 and keep the price within 500 bucks of current MSRP.

This will hedge the TSX's position in the "under 30k near-luxury" segment, which it pretty much kicks ass at already. This will keep the entry-level and "sensible shoes" buyer happy due to the value factor.

Then they really should follow the lead of all the other near-luxury makers who seem to "get it", (Volvo, VW, Audi, etc) and offer a high-trim (Type-S?) version with the 2.3 turbo and SH-AWD as the main components, making the same power as RDX. Give it some slightly more agressive aero styling and badging to satisfy the visual effect of the higher trim car, and pricing it 34-35k would still be quite a value considering what the competitors are doing. They need this type of setup to create buzz and keep people interested in the "TSX brand".

biker

The TSX is in that category by itself and will be out of it with the next model. The NAV model is already over 30K. And of course in real (and %) terms the jump will be huge. People expecting small increases over 06 or 07 which can be had for 25K will be in for a rude awakening when dealers will expect MSRP of 29,995 for the next TSX.

dom

I couldn't agree more.

Brandon24pdx

I was refering of course to the "non-nav" model, MSRP ~$28,500 right now.

The next TSX should offer a K24 FWD Non-navi model that falls within 500 bucks of its current $28,500 counterpart. (like I said, "if they were smart").

They have to keep the brand somewhat accessible to the entry levelers...with the RSX gone they're taking a big jump upmarket merely by default, but they still need a car that hits comfortably south of $30k MSRP in the lineup.

biker

If you go by historical trends there's no way the increase will be just $500. And as I said the street price jump will be much more than that.

Edward'TLS

It definately won't happen because it's the TL that belongs to the G35 fight, otherwise the TSX will be competing with the TL not the G35.

ostrich

I think it makes the most sense to put the RDX turbo 4 into the new TSX. I am dying to see how the TSX would perform with that engine! I mean, with 600 lb less weight, all that horsepower and torque, I think that TSX would fly! You see, the RDX is already doing about 7 sec from 0-60mph.... just imagine what 600 lb less and better aerodynamics will be like... CAN YOU IMAGINE!!!???

Oh, and of coure, there will be much better fuel economy too, with 600 fewer lb!

biker

That's the thing - with SH-AWD added (along with some weight) I'm pretty sure the millage will be worse than the current model - it's just a matter of how much worse.

GreenMonster

600lbs is alot ?? Where are they going to remove the weight from...

If they add sh-awd and the turbo engine to the TSX, you're looking at ADDING weight, not SUBTRACTING...

ostrich

The current RDX weighs just under 4000 lb.

The current TSX weighs just over 3300 lb.

Therefore, the weight difference between them is about 600 lb.

My point was, since the RDX already has such great acceleration with 4000 lb, imagine what the TSX could do if it has the RDX turbo engine, since the TSX is about 600 lb lighter.

derrick

^

1) How heavy is the current engine and FWD drivetrain in the TSX?
2) How heavy is the RDX engine + SH-AWD drivetrain?
3) What is the difference in weight? (question 2 being the larger of the 2 numbers)

Add answer 3 to 3300lb ... that will be the overall weight of the TSX with the RDX 'components' (and before any new goodies the next gen will have). The TSX will be heavier with the RDX engine + drivetrain than it currently runs. I guarantee the difference in weight will be less than 600lb.

------

Cliff notes: I see where you're coming from ... but you're not accounting for the additional weight the RDX engine plant and AWD will add to the TSX chassis. 600lb weight advantage is far too optimistic.

GreenMonster

Ah... ok, I was thinking more on the lines of a 2700lbs package with the turbo motor

ostrich

Oh! A 2700 lb TSX with the Turbo engine and SH-AWD!? Now, that thing would really fly then, wouldn't it!? We could only wish, right!? LOL!!!

But then even with the SH-AWD, I guess the TSX would probably gain about 200 lb??? If so, then the difference is still about 400 lb. With better aerodynamics as a sedan, and much lighter weight, I guess the performance and fuel efficiency would still be much better than the RDX, whose performance is already pretty excellent! (OK, the fuel efficiency is NOT good but that is another story LOL)

The bottom line is, I can't wait for a new TSX with much better performance numbers and SH-AWD! I love my TSX!!!!!!!!

biker

The 328xi is just under 3600lbs and the IS250 AWD is just over. It will be tough for Honda to keep the weight below 3500 lbs for a TSX with SH AWD that is bigger than both of those.

ostrich

Oops! So that's why the IS 250 AWD is SOOOOOOOOOOOO slow? Given its high cost (yup, if you add all the bells and whistles to the IS 250 the price will approach that of the 328xi!) and its poor performance, why anyone would buy that thing is completely beyond me....

Edward'TLS

Why not having two transaxle options - one for FWD or RWD, and the other SH-AWD. The cheaper and higher gas mileage FWD or RWD model will be fast, and the expensive SH-AWD model slower but safer in all driving conditions. For passenger cars of any make which offer AWD as an option, the bulk of the sales are always with the basic 2WD configuration. AWD sales only make up a small percentage of the total sales.

ostrich

I see your point about having two transaxle options. However, I thought that Audi sells way more Quattro versions of their passenger cars than their FWD versions? For instance, I thought that the vast majority of their A4 sold were Quattros? Am I correct or wrong here?

charliemike

I would think it was the other way around actually.

biker

The nearest dealer has 111 A4s listed in stock - 13 of them are non Quattro.

For A6 there are no non Quattro models.

A non Quattro Audi is like a DX in the Honda lineup - just something to get people in the door, but very few of which actually are stocked/sold.

I can see Honda offering a FWD version of the TSX with the diesel.

dom

I don't think I've ever seen a FWD A4. Then again I'm not sure they even offer them up here.

Brandon24pdx

They do. My brother has one.

charliemike

Wow, I had no idea Quattro was that popular. I would have figured FWD would be more popular.

biker

Not really an indication of popularity - if Audi stocked mostly FWD models they would sell just about as well.

Same thing for Acura - when the whole lineup goes SH-AWD the sales numbers are not likely to change much (at least not due to the SH-AWD change).

Fibonacci

My co-worker just bought one after Christmas. I was trying to convince him to get the TL (which he really liked), but in the end he decided he wanted AWD.

I always forget how small the car is, compared to the TSX inside. Seat of the pants acceleration feels similar 0-50, but 50-80 the IS 250 AWD def has more ooomph even with tha added weight.

Belzebutt

The back legroom in particular is aweful. I think part of it has to do with the very deep and padded front seats, and of course that drivetrain tunnel doesn't help. I wonder what kind of drivetrain tunnel a TSX with SH-AWD would have, I really wouldn't want less legroom.

biker

That driveshaft has to get back there somehow. I assume the size of the TSX will stay that tweener size - bigger than the compacts (328, IS, A4) and smaller than midsized (TL, G35).

phile

I wonder how Toyota does it to get the flat floor in the backseat of the Avalon? And the Civic as well? I realize these aren't AWD cars, but they still have driveshafts (at least I think they do...).

biker

Avalon=Civic=FWD=no driveshaft to the rear wheels="flat" rear floor

Actually even with FWD cars you sometimes have a "tunnel" that is used to get the exhaust pipes up into the body of the car. And even if for no other use a "tunnel" is probably needed in the platform for rigidity reasons.

Texas

Thread is a little old, so has anyone heard or seen anything new on a TSX Coupe? Europe Accord info should be leaking sometime??

biker

Honda's been real good at keeping info secret until the last minute - maybe something by the New York show in April?

TL CHROMETIDE

Is the next generation TSX coming out this year as a 2008 model?

biker

It's supposed to - some news should leak out by the end of the car show season.

LuvMyTSX

Some say 2008 model, some say 2009. I think probably fall 2008 as a 2009 model. Just my opinion.

TSX69

Even tho a 2008 model change would only give the current popular body style a 4 year run, I think it would be worth it bc it would separate it from the current TL which will have a new body style in 2009. Their lineup would be more fresh if they tiered their debuts - just like how the RDX & MDX debuted as 2007 models & both will be due to change in 2012 ... if they change the RDX to 2011, I think that would keep people coming thru Acura's doors.

Also, sales look like they might be starting to slag for the TSX so it might be time to change & keep up w/ the competition.