biker

And have it as a third engine when the diesel is added? No way.

dom

I seriously doubt any Acura will be using deisel. The only "luxury" brand currently brave enough to offer a deisel in NA is MB, but they have enough of a reputation to back it up. Unless I missed the announcement about Acura using deisels?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

biker, I think dom may be right about this point. I don't see Acura getting the diesels as it is not keeping with its increasing attempts to project a more luxury image. No matter what the media and enthusiasts may say, there is still a real stigma attached to diesels in the US and getting "luxury" car buyers to consider a diesel may be much more difficult than one might think.

I do see at least two trim levels for the TSX since that has been one of the biggest complaints about the TSX is that it lack options. A base model with a retuned version of the K24 or a bored out K-series I4 is pretty likely in addition to a Type-S model with the RDX motor tuned for more hp and less torque (i.e. 260 hp and 240 torque instead of the reverse currently on the RDX) and no SH-AWD, initially. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the RDX/RL paddle shifters make it into the next TSX on the AT models.

LuvMyTSX

Yeah, I wish they'd put the new diesel engine they're working on into the new TSX, but I doubt they'll use it in Acura cars. Would be so sweet, though.

biker

I don't' care how much baggage the word diesel has - all those Europeans buying them can't all be wrong. The latest review of the Bluetec E320 CDI basically says forget the E350 - just get the diesel. Acura will use diesels instead of hybrids - it's exactly in the luxury market where it makes sense to offer them. People won't pay the $1000 premium on a $20K Accord but they will on a $30 TSX (on which it actually won't be a premium cause the diesel will probably be cheaper than the SH-AWD turbo I4).

Edward'TLS

The main reason why diesel-engined cars are so popular in Europe is that the petrol (or gasoline in US) price in Europe is many times higher than in North America. Almost all petrol stations in Europe serve diesel fuel, unlike the unpopularity in NA. Diesel cars just don't sell in NA.

Honda only has a lame 2.2i diesel engine in its stable, and there is no way this will be used in any form in the Acura lineup which stress for performance. Not until Honda has similar diesel engines like the Mercedes 4.2L-V8 or the VW 6L-V12 then we'll see diesel-engine powered Acura cars in NA.

biker

Many gas stations in the US have diesel - it's not like it's rare. The only short term issue with diesel at the moment is the slightly higher price due to the changeover to ULSD. The price should settle back to the norm where diesel is about the same as premium.

What Acura model besides the NSX stresses performance? They are all just about equal to the competition's offerings. There's very little about he TSX that says performance. You are right the 2.2l iCDTi is too small for anything but the TSX - thats' why Honda is developing a V6 diesel. MB is not going to use anything bigger than the 3.2 CDI Bluetec. It will be whored out in everything from the C class, to the ML, R, E class, Grand Cherokee, etc. BMW will do the same with its 3.0L diesel- whore it out across it's lineup (just like in Europe).

VW/Audi is the one that may have more than one diesel - a smaller one for Golf, Jetta, Passat, A4 and a bigger one for A6, Toureg, maybe Passat.

Like I said, it makes much more sense for Honda to use the diesel in the TSX as the "green" alternative drivetrain in the TSX instead of some hybrid setup.

SPUDMTN

We all know that Acura and Honda are into doing things "different". I see it as much more likely for them to give the Acura brand a diesel as opposed to a hybrid.

ostrich

If there would be a turbo diesel TSX with great performance in future, I would be first in line to get one!

biker

Great performance and diesel don't usually go together - unless you're talking about some 12cyl Audi TDI engine. The whole point of diesel is fuel efficiency.

Texas

Diesel can bring a lot, a lot of torque with few liters...love torque...but then comes the FWD issue...I also would like to see a turbo-diesel 4 in the TSX with SH drive..or something with a little more torque so not having to move up to the large TL for torque.....Oh, make mine a coupe please..

America will come around to diesels when the new high pressure rail diesels start to hit here soon...all most Americans know about diesels is the damn the noise and smell from being next to a Ford 250...the new ones will not have these issues...

biker

Been here already for years in the form of VW TDI engines and E320CDI.

Edward'TLS

But they don't sell well in North America. Especially the VW turbo-diesel V10 debuted in the Toureg a couple years ago only lasted for one model year and was dropped the following year.

Edward'TLS

Anyone in his right mind won't use NSX as the baseline for performance to measure all cars, especially there are so many other car class categories out there such as crossover, van, mid-size, compact, sub-compact, etc., other than the supercar category which the NSX belongs.

Performance exists in every class catergory. Almost all Acura models do 0-60mph in < 8 secs and handle well. Acura cars are marketed for performance within their respective class category. On the other hand, most Honda models are slower and not handle as well, and slow hybrid models are offered. Honda did make one serious mistake by offering a high performance hybrid in the current V6 Accord, and it doesn't sell. The trend is that when people buy hybrid cars, they don't want performance. All they want is cheap price and maximum mileage out of every single drop of gas. So the new 4-cylinder hybrid Camry and Prius are selling like hotcakes.

biker

Again, they don't sell in great numbers because of what is imported - limited stock. Everything with a diesel sold better than expected, including the Jeep Liberty.
VW stopped selling the diesel Toureg because of emissions, not because of poor sales.

biker

Marketed with performance, yes - having performance as the main theme, no. If any model were class leading in performance it would be trumpeted - none are.

Edward'TLS

Please note that a car doesn't have to be class leading in performance to be qualify as a performance car.

TL - 258hp V6 motor, available 18" rims, 6 sec 0-60, best seller in class title year after year.
MDX - 300hp V6 motor, available 19" rims, SH-AWD.
RDX - 240hp turbo motor, available 19" rims, SH-AWD.
RL - 290hp V6 motor, available 18" rims, SH-AWD, slow in straight line but handles very well.

Even thought all these Acura cars aren't class leading in performance, but they will perform just as what Acura has marketed them to be.

Texas

Hear ya, but I was talking of even more mfgs like when Honda and GM (small block diesel for the light duty trucks and bigger cars) hit and then Ford moves over to the design......down this way we have so many truck diesels that the new design (in car diesels) has not made itself noticed....

react

looks a little like a IS350

gavriil

The two main reasons why diesel engines have worked in Europe and not here are:

1. Emissions standars, as always, are a lot looser in Europe than in the USA
2. Price of gas as opposed to diesel.

biker

Just what I said.

Yes. Although they're getting closer.

Not so much - they are about the same, with diesel most of the time slightly less, depending on the country. But combine that with the 20-30% better fuel millage and diesels are a no brainer.

Mokos23

I always just have this gut feeling that Honda gives more attention to their own company first and Acura is like their extra credit/other investment and was being neglected only until recently.

The reverse is for Toyota, where they've been putting more emphasis and dedication to their Lexus brand, then their own, and now Scion.

biker

That's kinda what Honda said when they said they will further separate Acura from Honda. The TSX should be a good model to watch to see what that actually means. Will it be just a rebadged EuroAccord or something more?

aesir11

They could just dump the RDX engine in it......

biker

That's almost a given.

savage

hopefully with a power boost... then Hondata will get workin on a K-Pro...

i bet Shiv at Vishnu might even take a peek if he sees some potential... He has done a good job with Evo's and STI's why not a TSX with SH-AWD and boost?

SeCsTaC

You would think that wouldn't you?

"Mr. Fukui is asked if we should expect to see more turbochargers in the Acura lineup and his response is that there are currently no plans, but they are looking at other ways to enhance Acura's sportiness. He also mentions that turbos are not exclusive to Acura and are being considered for Honda-badged products as well."

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=644813

So that dispels that rumor. So what the heck is the TSX going to get? Personally if they're not going to put the RDX engine in it then I kind of want to see a small V6 in it. Maybe a 3.0L making 230hp and 225tq or something

savage

i think the next gen TSX will need at least 240-250 hp as an option in order to compete performance wise... i think a turbo with about 260hp would be idea... SH-AWD as an option... possibly as a TSX Type-S....

biker

This is the same Fukui that has some misleading statements about the RL just months before the launch. It could be that turbo I4 won't make it in the TSX for MY08 but I just don't see much else going in there to boost the power.

Mokos23

No boost to power huh? Remember when you said that you would consider a G25 if they made one?

GreenMonster

Should be an interesting Fall, with both the new Accord and TSX coming out with a full model change. We've already seen the accord, so it'll be interesting to see when acura is going to unveil the new tsx...

dom

My money in on Detroit 2008. Like the first gen. With a Spring 08 release as an 09.

My money is also on a 2.5L 4 banger as the base engine and a Type-S with Turbo to follow.

You heard it here first.

Mokos23

What's your prediction on hp and torque #'s on the base and on the type s?

dom

Base - 230HP and 180lb-ft
Type-S - 260HP and 250lb-ft

gavriil

It only makes sense for the TSX to receive the engine from the RDX folks.

dom

Yup, thats my Type-S engine.

I can't see them messing with sucess and pricing the TSX out of reach of most of its current buyers. Doesn't make sense. Hence a base engine remains.

gocubsgo55

. Completely agree with the 2 previous statements. I really like the idea of Acura bringing back Type-S. It will prelude Acura into the "sportiness" it wants, but also maintain the lower end of the market segment Demographic.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Let's see a Type-R TSX with 290 HP and 275 ft-lb

biker

What does one have to do with the other? And if the TSX milage with the RDX drivetrain is as crappy as in the RDX, the TSX might drop out of contention also.

biker

I just don't see how Honda can go with an MY08 TSX with the current config. But if something is not announced by Geneva (early March) - then you might be right.

The thing is, the Accord is coming off the assembly line in 6 mos and very little is known about it either.

How about a Paris intro (9/07) and launch 2 months later?