CCType-S

1SICKLEX

That is the absolute DUMBEST thing I have read. About as dumb as the automobile magazine with 12 damn cars and the worst write-up in history.

The whole list is a mess...

heyitsme

its either one or the other but not both on exterior looks imo due to the a4 being a sharp car.

danny25

I agree with almost all of that. Those are some of my favorite cars and trucks.

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

good list imo

cusdaddy

I think it's a pretty good list. I agree with most of it

Red Rider

Right on !!

jts1207

replace the word lexus with mercedes and you would be saying its the best list on the planet E55, lexus has nothing :P

1SICKLEX

No, I disagree with the Lexus winners. Hell, who DIDN'T they name. Autospies is as reliable as Bush telling the truth about who chopped down the cherry tree..

AcuraFan

Not to get into a political debate or anything, but considering the lies, misleading statements and half-truths that came spewing out of the White House like tidal wave before Bush got in there, I'd say he's a little more reliable than you give him credit for.

As far as the Autospies list is concerned,...who cares? They made a list of what cars they do and don't like. You and I have our own lists filled with our own preferences and biases. I look at their list as their opinion...that's all. Their list doesn't impact my list or yours so just accept it as opinion and move on.

Crazy Bimmer

So then it must be true................ :o

SilverCL225hp

Honda Accord is not in it?

Sarlacc

The new Solara has a timeless design??? better then the SC????WTF???

This list is bullshit. now I agree with maybe half of, but the rest is contradictory to itself or playing favorites.

jmeffe

More like every car that is receiving a redesign for 2004
. It's a sweet list, but if your gonna do the "Best of 2004" list don't make it 50 cars long, how about best 10 or 20. Just about every car that got redesigned made that list. "If the car you want isn't on this list, then it costs less than $25K and we don't care about it, cuz those companies didn't give us kickbacks"

Universe93B

Nah, Sequoia's got it.

Chaptorial

Chalk one up for the Honda crew.

shaHn78

There's their credibility right there. :shakehd:

How fucking stupid & arrogant

sigma521

From dealer's price sheet:

Invoice: AT ~$29,500
Invoice: AT w/ Navi ~$31,750

sorry guys, these are the only ones i could remember, while having a glance at official price sheets. As far as i remember Manual invoice is the same as Automatic and same goes for Manual with Navi. As for Manual with Summer Tires, sorry didn't look.

P.S. obviously these are w/o destination charge of $545. And AT figure may be plus or minus couple hundred dollars.

Hope this helps with your decisions.

edit: Now that i was looking back at the post i think the AT is closer to 30,000, something like 29,750. To be honest i was only trying to memorize the one with navigation and for comparison sake looked at non-navi model.

EmuMessenger

Interesting. With holdback, that is a nice piece of change the dealers I getting right now.

Airdog

No Sh#t!!! I am guessing holdback is 3%, so the dealers are looking at $4000 +/- profit if they sell a TL at MSRP.

By the way - any idea why EDMUNDS is not showing dealer hold back any more? If they are, I certainly can not find it.

sigma521

When I talked to the sales manager he indicated that new TL is one HOT car and will be moving off the lot a fast as TSX. I said "sure" to myself and kept on looking at the car. I'll come back and speak to them again when all major mags will release reviews, and we'll have certain invoice pricing.

ryder1650

I think they have not updated the site yet...They may not know

justinjsw

Yes there is profit in the 04TL but look at the 03CL, 03TL, 04RL and RSXs..profit is marginal at best. The deals are on the CL, 03TL, and 04RL right now.

sigma521

Hey Justin, can you confirm the lease numbers given originally by Chadr, listed below:

//Term Res. MF
//36 59% .00215
//39 57% .00215
//42 57% .00200 (this is the best deal)
//45 51% .00200
//48 51% .00200


//Those are official numbers based on 15k per year figure 1-3% higher on the residual for 12k leases. These have been confirmed by several people at several dealerships. 42 months is the sweet spot and is a fantastic lease deal.

//Yes it is in those MF. Those numbers are for non-navi cars, navi cars are 2% lower. 12k cars are 2% higher.

Also, when would you expect dealers to start discounting of that sweet profit ? 6 months?

acura_driver

Road & Track 2004 Acura TL First Drive

-r

EDIT: Changed link to point to R&T website.

RJC RSX

thanks for the scan

neuronbob

Thanks for the scan. Hopefully we'll see some real road tests soon so we can get some actual numbers on this car.

EmuMessenger

I wish someone would publish a full test, already.

Did anyone notice, they had the "elusive" 6MT?

Cornell77

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?i...32&mode=invite

RJC RSX

Interesting, thanks. The BMW's 3/4 view just doesn't do it for me.





Such a stark contrast! Bimmer interior just doesn't stack up next to Acura's. Besides to the enthusiast, I think the new 5-series may have actually lost some appeal.

larchmont

Great collection, C77 -- beautifully done.

Aside from my being biased toward the Acura, I found that the different COLORS threw off the comparison for me. Particularly, the TL looks so great in the black that the 530 doesn't have a chance, at least to my eyes.

BTW neat cars in some of the backgrounds too.

Cornell77

Thanks, Larchmont. The initial allotment of demo BMW's were delivered throughout the U.S. in the two colors pictured. I did my best to capture the angle in each comparison...but, yes the color difference is a factor to be considered.

By the way, from the site survey, the black TL is not one of the most favored colors.

legendguy

Nice work C77:

Got to admit, BMW exterior is fluid and exciting (Acura could use a little more). BMW interior is a little like 1950s movie spaceship. Why so much extra space around the Nav screen? Acura interior seems more functional.

princed

I just can't make up my mind on the new 5 series. The exterior is exciting and innovative, but I can't STAND the rear (it's almost as if they took the upper rear from another car and poorly fit it onto the lower rear of the 5-series). The rest of the car's exterior is beautiful, and I've always really liked BMW's choice of rims. The interior too looks very luxurious and rich everywhere but the steering wheel, dash, and instrument panel, all of which are beyond ugly and ruin the entire interior ambiance.

I almost never feel a new generation model looks worse than its predecessor -- in fact, usually when a model is redesigned, the old model quickly begins to look dated to me. I have to say, though, the new 5 series makes me appreciate the styling of the departing generation. I really hope BMW is a little more conservative with the impending 3-series redesign...

tsx-mdxman

The BMW leather looks real nice but from the stereo on up it doesn't look too good. The two pod dash comes from the 7 series, looks strange. They're trying to be "avant garde," I guess. Too bad. I'm biased too but way prefer the TL. Some of the metal trim could come out of the TL and it would look even better though (IMHO), a little of that stuff (as applied in the TSX) goes a long way.
_________________________________
04 TSX CG AT/NAV
03 MDX SSM TOURING/NAV/RES

EmuMessenger

Nice work. The BMW seats are far more versatile and sporty. Both nice cars. The TL center stack looks great.

jwaters943

I have to preface this by saying that I dislike Bangle designed BMWs. However, I recently saw the new 5 and it looks sooooo much better in person. The car just does not photograph well at all. The headlights especially bugged me, but they look quite nice in person IMHO. The interior as well looks nice, if a little confusing and the materials seem quite good which suprised me as the photos made them look cheap. Overall, a nice car but I still feel the rear is too long from the rear wheel to the bumper.

Almost makes me miss my '97 BMW 528i. :'(

lakeman

Good comparison. The 5 series was one of the cars on my "list". It was actually my beanchmark car. When the TSX came out I almost bought it, but had to wait and see both the new TL and 5 series. When I saw the TL and it's features and reasonable price I knew the search was over. For fun I did the 5 series "build a car" on the BMW site and comparably equiped the 525 (SMALL MOTOR) was approaching 50K!

neuronbob

I like the look of the previous 5-series much better and, if I were in the market for one, I'd buy the 2003. The rear of the new car, in particular, is fugly.

phile

TL's interior is much more functional. Look at all the wasted space on the BMW's center stack and console. I prefer the TL's interior because it also looks nicer.

On the outside, the TL looks quite plain compared to the BMW. I think the TL is more attractive, but definitely not as interesting as the BMW (and I don't mean that as a bad thing for the BMW).