Thx, guys. Really informative convo from which I've learned a lot.

Guess this shoulda had its own thread. Didn't mean to derail the convo about the TLX being phased out.

 

Ah, didn't know that!

That said, Rivian ranks that low and I don't really hear about many issues that people have with them, certainly fewer issues than you hear about for other brands. Anecdotal but mine has been pretty much rock solid with no real issues. The only parts that get replaced are ones where there are newer versions out there that are better, since mine is a very early build, when it goes in for the yearly checkup (which is free). Maybe they are latching on to the frequency of software updates? Rivian does a big update pretty much every month and that can drive perceived low reliability?

 

They use surveys sent to owners, so unless you’re saying the average Rivian owner is a moron who considers a software updates as an issue, methinks that’s not it. A lot of my friends have Rivians, and the most common issues I’ve heard about have been with the electronics and build quality, and one of them had their on-board charger go bad. Could just be the sheer number of those small issues

 

Probably, who knows. And my stance is that people are generally morons so it's definitely plausible.

I haven't heard of issues with electronics that require replacement, just software stuff. Build quality has been outstanding for me personally. I'm 30k miles in and no squeaks, rattles, or anything from the build.

 

As pointed out by others, you're probably thinking of JD Power which is renown for their every problem is equal. CR survey's are not like as shown in the link on how they compile and rank their analysis of their finding, not perfect but still considered the best in their subscriber model/brand reliability survey.

 

It could also be that those most inclined to respond to those surveys are those dealing with issues.

 

That's the case for all cars, so it gets normalized. These scores are all relative to one another.

 

Sure but the owner pool for smaller brands like Rivian is also tiny compared to Ford or Honda.

I don't know, just take all that stuff with a few big grains of salt is all.

 

But if the owner pool is small AND the vehicles are unreliable, the percentages are still skewed for those brands.

Like Sam said, grains of salt and all.

 

With the TLX gone, hopefully it will lift the cap off the Accord and next gen gives us more compelling vehicle.

 

Guessing Accord is next on the chopping block. The current gen is so terrible that it has to be on the way out.

 

I'd be curious to see Civic proportions/dimensions compared to something like the CD gen Accord. I'd guess the Civic is nearly mid-late 90s Accord size by now.
The 2.0T Accord wasn't bad, much roomier than it looked from the outside. Haven't had any seat time in the 1.5 or the Hybrids.

 

What do you mean by terrible? It hits the right notes for what it’s supposed to be, the e:HEV system is really good, and it still outsells everything they offer not named Civic or CRV.

 

It very much moves away from what the Accord used to be in that it's no longer a great sport sedan lite type of car. It's now more of an appliance at all trim levels. The hybrid system isn't as good as Toyotas, the interior feels cheaper than the previous gen, and it looks like an Audi A7 from wish.

 

But that's exactly what it takes to be a volume seller. The vast majority of buyers are looking for a comfortable, easy to drive car, not something sporty. Also, I would contend that the hybrid system is superior to Toyotas, at least in terms of driving feel. It's marginally less efficient, but the eHEV system feels like an EV in terms of torque delivery and smoothness. In the Toyota system, it feels like the gas motor is doing all the heavy lifting and the electric motor is just supplementing the power a bit. With the eHEV system it feels like the electric motor is doing all the work, and the gas motor is far in the background.

 

 

Although subjective the Honda Hybrid system in the Accord is better than the Toyota Hybrid system

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-awd-compared/

 

And yet the Camry out sold the Accord by nearly 100k units in 2024. People wanting an appliance are going to buy the Camry, CRV, HRV, etc over the Accord and that is evident in sales numbers.

 

We're discussing the overall goodness of the Accord, a major auto media group Car & Driver ranked it higher than the Camry. The best in sales is not necessary the best in overall performance.

 

Economy brands make money by selling in volumes. The Accord is best in overall performance, but unfortunately more US population chooses the lesser performing Camry than the Accord for many years running. There is something in the Accord that doesn't click with the US family sedan buyers.

 

What's your point? I'm sure that C&D ranked the Ferrari 296 higher than the Accord in overall performance even though the sales numbers of those are 10x less than even the Accord.

At the end of the day, both of them are appliances and the more popular appliance is the one that sells better. Given that the Camry sells CONSIDERABLY more units than the Accord, that should tell you something.

My initial point before we started all this is that the current gen Accord is not as good as the previous one and more people are buying SUV's as well as cars with AWD (like the Camry offers) meaning the Accord's time on this Earth, at least in the US market, may be limited. The cost difference between an Accord and a CRV isn't much and I'd go with the SUV because it is better at appliancing than the Accord is and also offers AWD.

 

That certainly is the case, ever since Akio Toyoda took over at Toyota they've taken a more sporty direction including the Camry which ironically Honda decided to make the 11G Accord less sporty (no more K20, and the last 6MT was the 10G Sport ) and more mainstream sedan. Sales wise it'd not working compared to previous gens and that Camry sales are doing well. I've only been in a 11G a few times (friend has one), it is reasonably equipped tech wise and the interior quality/fit/finish/NVH seem good, but it also doesn't wow me either.

You wrote this which to me is a hyperbolic statement. So to claim a car is terrible while media channels rave about it shows bias or a 11G Accord ran over your dog, hit your Rivian, then stole your wife