RJC RSX

Yeah, plus the TSX was cheap as hell for Honda to bring over, minimal investment and huge gain. From the beginning I've called the TSX a transitional car, it carries Acura's new face, and represents the direction that they are going in.

SPUDMTN

Well said!


SPUDMTN

Jason

Thank you Larch (not sarcastic).

Zoot

SPUDMTN,
I asked the key question earlier in this long thread. Justin replied with a no to the key card and a maybe to the integrated key.....Personally, I would bet on Acura goving the TL an integrated remote/key. The Accord has it (along w/ a new rounded-edge style key) and so will it its luxury sibling.

SPUDMTN

Hello-

I would sure like to understand some of Honda's logic. I know that there's a reason for things, but I want to know why the US misses out on some of Honda's technology. The key card would be loved here in the states and I'm sure Honda knows that...but why is it that we end up without it? I know that there are other features that never make it to the states--just can't think of them right now.

To stay on topic--have we been getting any info from dealers who were at that presentation in Hawaii? Wasn't there some big presentation put on? Am I out of my mind? LOL


SPUDMTN

Raheel

What are u joking me?

The new Maxima has Heated Rear Seats..

The Key card? Well the new Infiniti FX has the keycard type system and its less than $40k

I Think intelligent cruise control is also something that might be on the car..

Almost everything is possible, Look at how much they pushed in a 28k V6 Accord. VOICE ACTIVATED NAVI, Wonderful Interior, 240 HP, Auto Windows down with key and so much more!

I JUST HOPE they dont forget to put fogs because its the 1st year model!

Raheel

LOL Ya no Key Period..

Only a card

hatchback

To pick up on a recent news story from Evo Magazine, originally posted (with a bad link) by JUNPWRD:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ev...y.php?id=38178

Traditionally the Honda Legend is the Acura RL, so it sure sounds like the 2005 Acura RL is going to be a 300hp AWD car. If the 2004 TL already has those specs, who is going to buy the 2005 RL? NO ONE! So my money goes with JUNPWRD: the 2004 TL cannot have AWD if Honda wants to give their 2005 RL "a new lease of life".

And to respond to PokeyD16Z's earlier post about the TSX, I believe that Honda introduced the 2004 TSX before the new TL and RL because it was by far the easiest thing to do. All they had to do was release a tuned version of the existing JDM Accord in the US to get a great seller that has received fantastic reviews. That's a lot less costs and risk than developing a whole new car.

Let's think forward to 2005, when the new Acura RL(aka JDM Legend) will be based on the longest and widest version of Honda's midsized global platform with 300hp and VTM-4. We know that the Acura TSX (aka JDM Accord) will continue to be based on the narrowest version of Honda's midsized global platform with FWD. We also know that the USDM Accord (aka JDM Inspire) will continue to be based on a medium-wide version of Honda's midsized global platform, with FWD.

In simplest terms, the Acura TSX will be Honda's narrowest midsized car in the USDM, the Acura RL will be Honda's widest midsized car in the USDM, and the USDM Accord will be in between the two. What room is left for the Acura TL that materially distinguishes it from Honda's other USDM offerings based on Honda's midsized global platform?

The only reasonable solution that I can see is that the 2004 Acura TL will be the high performance version of the USDM Accord, with a more powerful (ie higher compression) V6, better suspension, better brakes, 6spd manual transmission, airbags everywhere, and a boatload of standard luxury features (leather, moonroof, heated seats, dvd audio, etc.). But it will definitely be FWD and it's advertised hp will definitely be more than the USDM Accord V6 at 240hp and less than the 2005 Acura RL at 300hp. The HPT option will mean more HP, stiffer suspension, and better brakes.

I highly doubt that the 2004 Acura TL will include IMA until the Civic Hybrid is a commercial success because IMA is expensive, heavy, and not very successful in the marketplace.

I'm also inclined to believe that the 2005 Acura RL will be something truly special, basically a high performance 4dr sedan version of the Acura MDX with a 300hp+ 3.5L V6, VTM-4, tuned suspension, 6spd manual transmission, awesome brakes, and airbags everywhere plus some core luxury features like ventilated seats and possibly key card needed to (pretend to) compete with the BMW 7-series.

This is Honda's way of rationalizing their product line in the USDM. Essentially the Acura products will be the high performance versions of products that Honda already offers in other markets or in other guises. The TSX/RSX will compete with the BMW 3-Series, the TL will compete with the BMW 5-Series, and the RL will go against the BMW 7-Series. Acura's value proposition versus the USDM Honda brand will be higher performance, more luxury features, and better service. Acura's value proposition versus other competitors will continue to be reliability, value, safety, and the environment.

If so, this is an awesome strategy that will allow Honda to increase its share over the US market in a way that none of its competitors will be able to match.

Stash

ha ha----good try

Just the same ol same ol key and fob

RJC RSX

ok then obviously i haven't follwed japanese luxury progress lately. My source has already confirmed that intelligent cruise control will be "made available", suggesting perhaps as an option, but maybe factory. Yeah, it better have factory fogs...

jwaters943

I did however get the sarcasm of your post, but I'm not sure I appreciate it. My previous post about Stash and his post count (which was 4 at the time and he could have been some troll for all I knew) was more of a commentary that anybody can register here and post anything they want and because of that, there could be and probably is a certain amount of misinformation. I didn't mean it to come off as rude, so if it did, I apologize. Anyway, end of rant, I just wanted to clear that up.


Back to the TL discussions.....

donnydjr

Well said.

That's why there will not be AWD/VTM-4 on the '04 TL. While I'd like to see that option as much as anyone, and the current TL/FWD setup is no comparison to VTM-4 in the slush/snow, the timing isn't right (just yet).

EmuMessenger

I am only at page 38 of 40, so, sorry if this is a repost, but the Nissan Maxima offers heated rear seats and I would that is farther from the S600 than the TL.

Lexus has had an integrated key since at least 1989.

EmuMessenger

Now we all have sources, but I am being told the TL will not have fog/driving lights as standard equipment.

They will may a dealer installed acessory like the TSX, RSX and Accord, etc.

Iceman

What I am waiting for is, 300+ hp AND 42 mpg. Honda introduced the concept of a high-performance hybrid with the DualNote concept car. Whichever car Honda puts this technology in, will sell in large numbers. If the technology is ready, I don't see why Honda wouldn't use it for both the TL and the RL. The 2004 TL will actually be shorter than the current model. Make the RL big enough to differentiate it from the TL, and it will sell just fine.

acuraman_RENAMED

Just to clarify, heated rear seats on the Maxima are only available by ordering the $6400 Elite package which adds a rear console, nav, power rear shade, heated steering wheel, and the list goes on. If you add a sunroof and VDC (Nissan's version of VSA), you are talking about $35,700. That is a tad pricy for a Nissan (excluding SUVs)......

92vigor

Question . . .

Are there any other cars on the market that offer intelligent cruise control on a car with a manual transmission? How does it work or is it possible?

What happens when the car speeds up or slows down and needs to change geers? Dose the cruise shut off? Does it allow you to shift? Or will they just not offer intelligent cruise on a 6MT TL?

ClutchPerformer

Cruise control on a manual transmission assumes you don't change gears (it's made for cruising on the highway when speeds don't change that much or that often). Usually, pressing the clutch pedal will cancel the cruise control just like pressing the brake pedal would. Other than that, cruise works the same as on an automatic.

I don't know of any manual cars with intelligent cruise control, but it's definitely possible.

larchmont

Now THAT would be some news. The TL would be all that we'd be reading about for months.

Hey, 92VIGOR -- welcome! Don't know the answer to your Q, but it looks like that car of yours would be worth a trip to Nyack. (Don't worry, I'm not really coming!)

92vigor

that is correct for traditional cruise control but intelligent cruise control is designed to speed up or slow down as needed. An automatic would change gears to accomodate but how would this work with a manual transmission? Are there any cars on the market with intelligent cruise and a manual transmission???

ClutchPerformer

I understand that, and I see what you're saying. If you *need* to slow down that much, I don't think any kind of cruise control should be used in those situaitions (and I'm pretty sure owners' manuals of cars with i-cruise control say not to do so). I know I wouldn't feel comfortable letting the car cruise down by itself behind a car at a stop light. Same for city traffic.

When I think of what i-cruise is for, I think of those situations where you're on a highway trying to move a certain speed, there's a car in front of you moving slower that you want to pass, but there's also a car in your left lane which forces you to stay in the lane you're in. With a regular cruise control, you'd have to cancel it (or risk hitting someone). With i-cruise, you could leave it on, wait behind the slow car, pass when it's safe, and get back up to speed with no brake tapping or button pressing. Maybe I'm missing the point...

Edit: the REASON there's no cars on the market with manual + i-cruise is because i-cruise is (for now at least) reserved for a top-of-the-line car. And top-of-the-line cars almost never have manual transmissions.

Professor Gascan

I did some digging to see what I could come up with about th 04 TL. It WILL NOT have AWD, period. At least not until the 05 RL has been on the market for a year. Figure the AWD (either VTM4 or IMA) to be available for 06. I would put my money on the IMA, as that's what I expect the RL to feature (they will be based on the same chassis by the way). The HPT package will be the traditional "sports package" as per Audi, BMW, Mercedes etc. Expect 18" wheels and tires (with summer rubber finally!), bigger brakes, stiffer suspension, and in Canada, navigation. The NAV will only be on the HPT car for Canada, the regular 6mt and 5at will not have it as far as I can find.

provench

I think if it does not hit the '04 TL then in '06 we might see both the TSX and TL get AWD ... I too am hoping it is IMA based.

I for one think this is great ... since I have a 32 months left on my TSX lease and will be ALL OVER an IMA and/or AWD based sports sedan from Acura in '06. In fact - can I go ahead and get on the waiting list?

Acuman

Can anyone explain what IMA based is. I called Acura News - Look up www.acuranews.com for latest press releases about acura products) - The gentleman said he doubts the TL will have AWD. for what it's worth.

Acuman

Acuman

Tallking about FWD - what is torque steer - . Sorry if this is a basic question. Just want to know and you guys keep talking about it. Plus I have to boost my post #'s.

Went to local Phoenix dealer - they don't know sh.... - about new TL.

They are taking $1000 deposits though.


Acuman

larchmont

I don't know WHY it happens (because as I keep saying I know nothing about cars), but....for some reason, FWD cars may tend to lurch toward the left or right when you accelerate fast from a stop.

It happened severely in my '03 TL-S, it happens very little in my TSX.

EmuMessenger

It is funny how so many dealers know nothing, but how to say "Fork over the cash!"

Zoot

For the people who doubt the TL will have certain things because the RL does not........


Think about what Justin told us. He said VTM-4 will only be on the HPT 6-speed manual tranny. The RL customers won't buy a MANUAL TL instead of their RL, just because it has awd. An automatic awd TL would be a different story. IF Justin is correct, than perhaps Acura plans on only making an awd 6-speed TL just to save the RL. Once the new RL arrives, the TL's auto tranny would get the VTM-4



Think about it, my theory makes sense! (of course this theory only applies to what justin told us and everybody's doubts)

Professor Gascan

IMA is Integrated Motor Assist. In the Civic and Insight, it's an electric motor sandwiched between the fly wheel and the transmission. When more power is needed for acceleration, the electric motor provides that extra boost thats needed, and then shuts off for cruising. For future Acura appilcations though, it will be two electric motors in the rear wheel hubs. During normal driving they will just free wheel, but when slip occurs at the front the electric motors will balance the car, acting like AWD. Same with acceleration from a dead stop. The electric motors will help out provding that extra thrust from the rear, better balancing the car. Basically, it will be like an AWD car, but with better fuel economy, less powertrain losses, and comparable weight.

Professor Gascan

Torque steer is what happens when you floor the gas in your front wheel drive car and the car swerves left or right. Think of it as fishtailing a RWD car, but the other way around (and not nearly as fun). Honda/Acura as far and away the best at doing away with it as they use equal length drive shafts. Torque will want to take the path of least resistance, in this instance the shorter drive shaft. I don't believe that Nissan uses equal drive shafts, hence the monster torque steer from recent V6 Altimas and Maximas. Accelerating hard on roads dished out from heavy trucks will make the problem worse. Having lots of low end torque will make the problem worse, such as in the CL-S and TL-S (neither of which even come close to being "bad" though) as compared to the TSX which has relatively little low end torque. Hope that helps

PokeyD16Z

Just to clarify...I never said anything about DELAYING the TSX. I just mentioned that the new RL should've been unveiled before April. When was the 04RL shown? If it was in Jan., which I think it might've been, that whould've been a great time to unveil a brand new one. I'm pretty sure that Acura is withholding features so that they don't damage sales of cars currently on the market. For example, the memory seats. I think that Acura withheld it on the TSX because if they hadn't, the TSX would have pretty much everything the TL has, for a lower price. Who would've even considered a TL if the TSX has everything it has (excluding people that must have a V6 and the Type-S)??

need4spd_RENAMED

I guess, some of those people who wanted more rear seat space would have waited for the TL also -

As for me, I like the extra room and V-6, but if the TL turns out to be a dog, and is to expensive (god I hope not either of these), I will be getting in line for one of those great TSX's (blue or CG, not white for the TSX)

I do have anouther question, if the TL is not going to have a screen in the non-nav cars, how is bluetooth going to integrate the phone? I think bluetooth needs some sort of visual interface to make it user friendly??

SSH_RENAMED

My guess is that there will be some sort of center display for the AC/radio/phone. Bluetooth could use this or a smaller display integrated into the center gauges (a la MB E-class).

Other questions is how well the phone will integrate with the in-car controls. I want to see a full integration of the phone's address book, take and place calls using steering wheel controls, full hands free with auto muting of audio/video. All done via Bluetooth with the phone sitting in your pocket or bag (optional handset mounting kit available for recharging).

I'm really interested in this feature, if done right it will totally change the way people use their phone in the car...which is a good thing.

acuraman_RENAMED

You are right. Since the TL is Acura's 'staple' product, they want to sell as many as possible for the '04 TL is released. By putting memory seats in the TSX, Acura could have had some major problems like having an excess qty of TLs on the lot and a significant shortage of TSXs. Since Acura is only allocating 15K TSXs for the US, some of the regulars in this forum who have their TSXs now probably would still be waiting if the TSX had memory seats. In addition, Acura would have to discount TLs even more which would ultimately hurt the value of TLs for current owners. But Acura didn't and it was a great move....

planman

Over in the "News & Rumors" section there's a NYT article about Honda's new president. Somewhere in there it notes that Honda views the Japanese market as their R&D center while North America is their biggest money maker (something like 53% of sales, but 90% of profits).

I take that to mean that new bells and whistles get introduced to Japan first and only make it to North America once the bugs have been worked out and they can be manufactured/serviced efficiently and in a way that maintains that profit strength.

Plus, Honda seems to avoid anything that might tarnish their "it just works" image of dependability here in the States. Offering the latest whiz-bang gizmos on their cars would almost certainly hurt them in that respect.

Raheel

Does anyone think the 04 TL will be 50/50 Balanced?

RJC RSX

doubtful. 60/40 maybe?

jwaters943

Nope....unfortunately one of the disadvantages of FWD and even AWD is the disproportionate amount of weight over the front wheels. Even if Acura manufactured the entire front of the car and all it's components with lightweight materials (aluminum, magnesium & high tech plastics) it still would probably be more like 55/45 and would cost far too much to be feasible for anything in this price class.

EmuMessenger

It seems like we have gone several days without any new, official information.

What is new on the TL front?

bdt980

Yea, anyone with any Info Speak up- we've run dry