Booyah

I know what you are saying but, its just not common practice for anyone to pay MSRP anymore for any car..I know I never had, new car or not and will not start with the New TL!
My dealer already told me that he will work off of MSRP a little, he even stated we cant sell cars for MSRP anymore.

need4spd_RENAMED

I agree it will be 280 +/- a few ponies. The three dealers that I have spoken to (for what they may or may not know) have said the HP to be either 280 or 285 depending on the dealer.

Regarding the head lights being the same p/n as the TSX, the spy photos don't show it. If you zoom in on the head lights in the two pictures, you can clearly see that the yellow turn indictator in the TSX is NOT between the the low beam and high beam reflectors. also, the two beams (low/high) are imeadiately adjacent to each other, leaving no room for a turn indicatator.

While I love the TSX head light cluster, I can't say it will be in the TL from what I have seen - Sorry Huskerfan, not sure the info is correct.

But I guess this is what this section is all about, rumors, you just need to be able to read between the lines.

Thanks everyone for all the info so far!

RJC RSX

Make that tomorrow (Tuesday) afternoon

ender

As a salesperson at the dealership I work at it won't make a difference to me whether it is sold at MSRP or 2k less. In fact the more discount we have the more I sell. Its just going to hurt 'you' the consumer and it WILL damage the brand and it WILL hurt resale value, thats why Acura is concerned with dealers pulling down their pants down on the price of the car as soon as they get it.

larchmont

It depends on the car, and when, and sometimes on where. A lot of us paid MSRP for our TSX's. In the NYC area, it's been a rarity to buy for under.

Heck, depending on how hot the car is, sometimes not only is it MSRP or nothing, but the prices might even go UP after a little while. Heard of the mini?

EmuMessenger

I know everyone likes the TSX cluster, but I hope the one in the TL is different.

I am hoping for bi-xenon headlights, like in the BMW's, Nissans, Infinitis, Porsches, etc...

JeffPhx

Might he be talking about the projector bulbs being the same parts number and not the entire head light casing?

need4spd_RENAMED

Good Point

phile

You also forget that when the then-new 99 TL debuted, it was priced lower than the outgoing TL. Also, the competition was less than enthusiastic for that particular market - the Lexus ES300 was nowhere as opulent inside and radically designed on the outside as the new model. Cadillac had no CTS, Audi and Infiniti barely had a pulse.

The MDX is a crossover SUV - those things are hot. Sporty sedans? Not really. Just because it's new doesn't necessarily mean MSRP for buyers, e.g., look at the TSX.

When a car is discounted, the marque doesn't suffer. The marque suffers when it has something like a sub-20K RSX in its "luxury" lineup - then it looks cheap. But if the TL's MSRP is, say, 33K, and someone buys it for 31.5K - who's gonna know?

This is not flaming, it's called a discussion. If you can't handle that, please don't respond to my posts. I found that little comment at the end of your post to be rather insulting. I have never presented myself as someone belligerent, I do not know why or where you came up with that and I will certainly not discuss with someone who thinks that way of me.

need4spd_RENAMED

hey, I was surfing a little and stumbeled onto an Honda Japanese site on the Inspire, could Jason have been talking about the new Honda HIDS system (Honda Interactive Driver Support System)?

Is this then new (maybe it is just new to mee) system that will blow us away? Here is a link to the movie showing the system (movie is 4688K in size, so hope you have an high speed conncetion):

http://www.honda.co.jp/INSPIRE/prese...ids/index.html

I know the Inspire is the US Accord for Japan, but the technoligy is transferable.

I would not say that this sytem is a big leap (active cruse control) but just a thought.

Interstingly enough the interior is the same as the TSX (or very close), not the USA Accord

brutus

this 5.1 audio is passe... where's the 7.1 audio that's what I'm asking

So anyone hear about a Type S variant coming too.. or wil that just be the HPT... Beuller... Beuller?

B.

phile

How is that going to hurt the customer? If I bought a car for lower than its MSRP, why should I expect it to have the same resale value as someone else's car that was purchased at MSRP?
If you paid less for a car, you're going to get less on resale. That's just common sense, anyone who believes your logic in getting "hurt" by not paying MSRP is overly optimistic and out of touch with reality.

Most of the buyers on this site didn't purchase their TSX at MSRP - I don't see the Acura brand going down any time soon.

Varmint

See... This is why I was hesitant to join this forum. I can't keep up!

On MSRP: Acura cares about sale prices because they do have an effect on how the brand name is perceived. Right now, the domestics are having a heck of a time trying to get people weaned off the incentives they have been offering for the past year. Your neighbor buys a new Ford truck for $8,000 off the MSRP. Six months later, you go there and try to get a similar deal on another Ford. You can't, so you walk. These low prices cheapen the image of the brand. Unless the domestics do something drastic, they will never get people to pay MSRP again. Acura is trying to avoid that.

On resale, sale prices affects the owners who did pay full MSRP. You buy at MSRP, then sell a year later. The depreciation is about $3K. That 3K is subtracted from the current selling price, not the full MSRP you paid for it.

Varmint

On part numbers: This is what several folks found when trying to determine if the Accord transmission failures were going to affect the Pilot.

Part numbers often reflect what the function of the part is. A headlight for the TSX may have the same number as the RL, TL, or MDX as all of them are headlights. I think you'll need to get the full SKU, which is often not part of the "part number". The inventory folks tell them apart by using both the part number and the vehicle code.

Precision Crafted

Outstanding is not the word. Now that is a system!!!!!!

motor

I cant find my copy of my sheet, so sorry for the premature post. Hate to be one of those people who post w/ no facts to back up.

Precision Crafted

With all of the talk of regulating cell phone useage in cars due to carelessness of drivers, this may be the wave of the future (if and when the feds say if your holding your phone while driving you'll be ticketed 500-1000 dollars ).

acuraman_RENAMED

Excellent points, Varmint.....

Based on the success of the Acura pricing strategy starting with '99 TL, then with the MDX and continuing with TSX, it will be a while before we see Acura selling the new TLs at 3K under MSRP (like Infiniti/Nissan for their 1st year models). Up until the beginning of this year, you were fortunate to get $1000 off of MSRP on a MDX! As a result, I'm willing to bet that we won't see customers getting $1K off MSRP until Q2 of 2004. This is all based on the allocation Acura assigns for the 5sp Autos and the 6sp trannies.

JM2C = Just My 2 Cents

RJC RSX

I talked with my friend at the dealer and gained some more insight on the MSRP matter. Basically as I said before, it's extremely unlikely you'll be able to get the new TL under MSRP for the first couple or even possibly several months. As Varmint mentioned, name prestige has a lot to do with it. Moreover, if Acura sees that a certain dealership is giving deals on the new TL right away, they'll assume there isn't much of a demand there and they will relocate future allocations to other dealerships where the demand is high. This of course is undesirable by the dealers. Acura knows this is a widely anticipated car and they know the demand is strong. Also as previously mentioned, selling at the MSRP helps to keep up the resell value which is appreciated by buyers. Finally, selling at the MSRP means that dealerships can afford to buy even more cars from the manufacturer. Acura likes their dealers to make profits, because then they can order more cars and sell more of Acura's merchandise, also, it keeps up the market reputation of the new product.

acuraman_RENAMED

Ditto. Now if Acura was releasing the rumored TL Type-S at the same time in October, then I think we would be talking about 280 for the TL and about 320-ish hp for the Type-S (not 275)....

RJC RSX

i dont think they'll be a "type-s" for another 2 years. The HPT model should satisfy the enthusiasts for now. After the 05 RL debut, I can imagine an IMA TL model...pushing 350hp perhaps

Precision Crafted

If you haven't already heard, many of GM's cars will be getting a new name when they are redesigned. All of Buick's car except the Regal will have a new name. Park Avenue is still up in the air. The Cavalier is being changed to Cobalt (with a price increase), the Grand AM name is gone, and there are others. Why, GM is hoping that with new names comes no incentives so they can charge higher prices.

Oh, and whe all new Ford has new names for some of it's up and coming.

justinjsw

What everybody has forgotten is that there are TLs being discounted right now...all the 03s. The 03s are still inbound as we speak. There will be plenty of 03 TLs in dealer lots when the 04s hit the market. As far as the car holding MSRP goes who is to say what will happen in the fall. IMO...rather its a 03 or 04 I will let the market decide what price the car will or should sale for.

huskerfan

Don't apologize...it wasn't my post. I was simply relaying what I found on the TL/CL forum. I can't vouch for its accuracy.

acuraman_RENAMED

Thanks justinjsw....

Although 03 TLs are still inbound, has production stopped yet or are these the last allocations going to each dealer?

Also, do you know how long it would take for the Marysville Plant to change from producing the 03s to the 04s?

need4spd_RENAMED

Thanks for the clearification and understanding.:o

need4spd_RENAMED

Justin,

Am I correct, will the 04 TL have an Acura variation of the Honda HIDS system (Honda Interactive Driver Support System), sort of an electronic accident avoidance system as shown on the Honda of Japan site for the 04 Insight?

RJC RSX

i thought the 04 TL production was being moved to Japan? Not that it makes much sense, but I could have sworn that's what I read somewhere

ender

I meant no insult. I thought I would take a lot of heat for stating that I thought it would be MSRP for a while..
Your right on every statement you made. It was a different time in 99 there was no competition, so to speak.

RJC RSX

I realize this isn't directed at me, but I read in a Honda press release that those accident avoidance systems on the inspire won't make it to the NA market for a good 5 years. They're still being tested in the Japanese market and they're researching how the NA market would respond to it.

need4spd_RENAMED

Yes, I saw that also, either at or Vtec.net, but then someone said it was the Inspire that was moving to Japan, with the TL staying, but who knows, it was not clear, and started from a news brief on a Russian site.

phile

It's true. The JDM Inspire will move production to Japan and our TL (supposedly, the JDM's new Legend) will be produced here.

phile

Thank you for the clarification - I misunderstood.

bdt980

About the MSRP---

When the New Accord came out No dealer Sold below Sticker Price in my city. They said every car goes for whats on the sticker. If hond didnt go below stick why should Acura?

JeffPhx

Honda is really good at model change overs. Their plants are very flexible . As I understand, they will start building the new models right beside the current one on a modified line for a while to test for issues. Then went it is time, they will switch the regular line over and start the production ones. I believe the last two Accord models, the change overs occurred in a weekend and Monday they were up and running on the new one. Anyone correct me if I am wrong.

phile

The dealers in your city were floating on clouds. Honda sells roughly 400,000 Accords per year - anyone who paid MSRP either wanted to be the first to own one or he could simply afford to pay MSRP (which he is free to do so - I just don't agree he should).

Like I originally said, anyone who would pay MSRP for the new TL must really want one. The market has changed. The smart consumer should wait to see if discounts can be had. And no Varmint, when I say "discount" I don't mean the $8,000 kinds that Ford and GM hand out. By discount, I mean buying at invoice or $1,000 below MSRP - I still don't see how that could damage a brand's image. Anyone who expects anything beyond that off of a brand new luxury car is clearly not right in the head. Besides, with the Ford analogy, it's not like Ford had any brand image to retain anyway.

need4spd_RENAMED

Lets try and spend more time on the details of the car, I think we killed the pay MSRP or less issue.

Ultimately it is up to the buyer, dealer, market conditions and what both are comfortable with. Nothing we say on this site will change what happens between the dealer and buyer (all though it was informative).

I guess the details are kind of slow so we picked up this alternate discussion.

Thanks

EmuMessenger

Agreed!

I would not buy a new house, but I might send someone $.02 via PayPal for some concrete specifications on the new car.

We seem to have some color and model information, how about some concrete specs.

acuraman_RENAMED

Phile, you are right that people who pay MSRP at the beginning of launch must really want the TL. Consumers may be able to get accessories at cost, but I think that's the most TL buyers will see in terms of discounts in the first few months. As it was stated before, customer demand will determine how long Acura will be able to ride the MSRP wave on the TL.

Another factor that's important is that Acura does not provide alot of playroom between MSRP and invoice: $2400 for the '03 TL vs. $3700 on the ES300 and $2800 on the G35. (I didn't include the CTS in this category since GM is so incentive crazy...) The lack of 'fluffy' keeps the residuals high (59% vs. 56% on the ES300 and 55% on the G35 on a 36 month lease). As a result, customers will be more willing to pay a price close or equal to MSRP for the '04 TL because they know they can reap the benefits either during the lease due to lower payments or when they decide to sell/trade-in the vehicle.

Simply put, I'll be very surprised to see customers getting 1000 to 1500 off of MSRP on the '04 TL before the end of 2003.

We'll see soon enough.......

provench

Yeah - not that it matters for a 31 page thread. But let's take the MSRP debate to another thread and stick to news about the new TL here.

Thanks.