huskerfan

I'm sure many of you have already seen this but for those of you who haven't.

PRODUCT NEWS Banff, Canada, March 14, 2003

Elliot Scheiner Develops Signature 5.1 Surround Audio System With Panasonic for 2004 Japanese Luxury Vehicle


"Surround sound in cars is going to drive the market for DVD-Audio and 5.1 surround, the same way car systems did for the cassette and the CD," says multiple Grammy Award-winning producer/engineer Elliot Scheiner.

Mr. Scheiner is putting his words into action, by working with U.S. Panasonic (Southfield, MI) to develop an OEM car sound system that will appear in a Japanese luxury car for the 2004 model year (appearing September or October of this year).

"Surround sound in a vehicle sounds great," Mr. Scheiner said with enthusiasm, speaking to a meeting of the Audio Engineering Society in Banff, Canada earlier this week. "When people hear it, they get it right away, they want it for their own car."

Elliot Scheiner knows what he's talking about. Over a 36-year career as a popular music engineer, producer and mixer, he has worked on releases by a who's who of the music industry, including Steely Dan, Van Morrison, Sting, Aretha Franklin, James Brown, The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and many more. He has won Grammy Awards for "Best Engineered Recording" twice, and received nearly 20 nonimations in all.

For the past three years, Mr. Scheiner has devoted himself almost exclusively to surround audio production and re-mixes, winning praise and awards for more than a dozen key titles including Queen's A Night at the Opera, Faith Hill's Cry, Steely Dan's Two Against Nature, R.E.M.'s Document and Automatic for the People, and Beck's Sea Change.

Panasonic announced its collaboration with Elliot Scheiner at the SAE World Congress in Detroit last week. Speaking in Banff, Mr. Scheiner indicated that the new in-car system will be a fully discrete 5.1 multichannel system - and that it will be branded with his name.

"Ours will be the first car surround system with true discrete multichannel," explains Mr. Scheiner. "Mercedes is coming out with a DVD-Audio-based surround system [developed by Harman], but it isn't true multichannel. It uses Logic7 [a proprietary Harman International DSP processing algorithm] to simulate 5.1 channels, after down-mixing the DVD-Audio to stereo."

"It makes all the difference in the world," he continues. "I demo'ed my system in Detroit for a couple of Mercedes execs, with one of the R.E.M. DVD-Audio's, and then let them take the disc over and try it in their system. They came back and said - 'hey it doesn't sound the same at all, we can't hear the voices in the back and all those details.' "

Mr. Scheiner says the specific car model that will offer his new signature surround audio system will not be announced until sometime in April at the earliest. However, CarConnection.com reports that the car in question will be the new Honda Acura TL, and also indicates that other automakers are considering the system for their own luxury models.

Jason

I hadn't seen that, very interesting.

larchmont

Just curious: Even though I'm a pretty serious musician, I could hardly care less about sound system when evaluating or choosing a car.

Yet, so much of the buzz about the new TL -- and about any new model, in fact about any model at all -- is about the sound system.

Maybe it's that I like my music so much that I know I'm gonna love it even if the sound quality isn't exactly the best. Maybe it's that I'm so much into the "car" that the details of the sound don't matter that much. Maybe it's that I'm a dork.

Obviously a lot of you DO care a lot about the sound system, but I'm wondering if there are also a lot of people who are where I am.

9000RPM

For me the best sound should come from the car not stereo.

EmuMessenger

MY DVD player is also a DVD-Audio player and the sound is great. I most look forward to the front/rear separation.

Booyah

For me, When I pay in the mid to upper 30's for a nice vehicle of any kind I want a nice sounding stereo...something I dont need to upgrade immediatly. Granted there are some of us that feel a factory stereo just wont do period!!

Off the TL a bit, has anyone heard the Mark Levinson system in the Lexus's...simply outstanding

VtecMW

I'm not interested in "True Surround Sound Audio" in a car. :whocares: Save this BS for the RL. Give me something with a nice sound and I'm happy. I certainly don't want to be paying extra for this feature, or Bluetooth.

Oh, and one other note, "The all new Acura TL with Elliot Scheiner Audio" doesn't sound quite as good as "The Lexus GS400 wth Mark Levinson Audio".

I'll have to see what pricing is like on the model I want. Acura will have to knock something off MSRP in order to persuade me to take a TL home with this nonsense. It just isn't that serious.

:sqntfawk:

RJC RSX

any audiophile will tell you that the Mark Levinson system in the Lexus sounds like crap. Granted, most of us aren't hardcore audiophiles.

Now where does one get 5.1 encoded music at?

RJC RSX

VtecMW, you absolutely won't be able to get the new TL for below MSRP. Acura will cut off allocations to their dealerships if they see deals being given out right away. The dealerships are under strict orders to not negotiate the price. Dealer expenses are another sory.

"State-of-the-Art Scheiner Audio System on the new TL" ...sound better?

VtecMW

I'd be perfectly willing to withdraw my deposit if pricing and these (unnecessary) features, IMO, became a point of contention.

Acura's State-of-the-Art Scheiner Audio System and Bluetooth just don't do anything for me. I certainly would not be willing to pay for it. Navi, I can see the pricing justification in that, the other stuff....

RJC RSX

i sense a somewhat pessimistic attitude towards the new TL. I have a gut feeling Acura will throw all this incredible stuff on it and still manage to keep the price about the same. $31,995 starting

VtecMW

No, not pessimistic. I'm just hoping Acura doesn't get too ambitious by thinking that buyers will pay a premium for these features. If this car starts at $31.9K then I'd be nothing but highly optimistic!

Jason

This is the most ridiculous post I've seen in hours. Stop kidding yourself.

larchmont

......which suggests ANOTHER contest......

huskerfan

More on the new Audio System for the TL from "The Car Connection"

HONDA OPTS FOR DVD AUDIO

Honda will begin offering a DVD-Audio player as a standard feature on the new Acura TL, which is scheduled to reach the showrooms in October, 2003. The new unit was designed by Panasonic and can play DVD-Audio discs as well as a variety of media including CDs. The new system will feature the very latest in audio technology and will be capable of reproducing 5.1 channels of uncompressed surround sound music. In addition, a new generation of DVD-Audio ready speakers, multi-channel amplifiers and in-dash receivers is being readied. Other automakers are also looking at the system, particularly for luxury models. The rising popularity of home entertainment systems equipped with surround sound has helped boost the popularity of the DVD-Audio format

RJC RSX

No this I know for a fact. Dealerships are required to report all of their sales directly to Acura, and if they see that they are giving out discounts right away they will limit their allocations. The dealership owners are telling their sales people that they cannot sell below MSRP or negotiate any factory prices. Like I said, dealer expenses are another story.

odessa

This is nonsense.

Jason

Quite frankly, I don't believe this. I'm sorry but I just don't. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression Acura doesn't really care what the dealers sell it for. Not to mention the fact the DOJ could drop an anti-trust/collusion suit against them. No, there will be discounts.

RJC RSX

That's fine if you don't believe it. But it's fact, and I don't just go saying things like that unless I know for sure.

Of course Acura cares what the dealers sell the cars for! They want to make the most money they can on a new car. I guarantee you hardly anyone will be able to get the car under MSRP for the first few months.

RJC RSX

--www.digitalaudioguide.com

While video on a screen visible by the driver is illegal while he operates the car, I wonder if video could play on the navi screen while parked? I mean it does have a DVD player after all. And while driving, I see nothing wrong with still photos associated with the audio tracks being displayed. Interesting possibilities

Bear Trap

The TSX was only out for a month when I found two dealerships discounting them $1,000. I bought mine from the dealership that was willing to give me more on my trade-in. They said they were taking it out of the TSX, maybe to hide the fact they were discounting the car $1,750.

phile

You must really want the new TL to settle for MSRP. I don't know a single person who paid full price for their TL. Hell, the majority of them lease their cars.

EmuMessenger

For those of you dismissing Bluetooth, have you seen it work in a car?

If it is anything like other cars using it, a great example would be for those with the navigation system...

If you have your Bluetooth phone in your trunk and get a call, the caller ID will display on your navigation screen and it will show the name if it is programmed on your GSM SIM card. Additionally, you will be able to have a truly hands-free conversation using the car's audio speakers.

You will also be able to dial from your phone's directory and access the calendar through the navi screen.

The above comments all assume Acura will configure Bluetooth as others, including BMW have implemented the functionality.

Jason

So now you're changing your story eh?

"...you absolutely won't be able to get the new TL for below MSRP. "

That's what you said right? First it's absolute, and then you "...guarantee hardly anyone will be able to get the car under MSRP for the first few months." Which one is it? I say neither, the market will dictate the price.

BTW, Acura makes a fixed amount regardless of what the dealer sells it for. In fact, I would argue Acura WANTS them to discount (if they need to) to help move more metal.

RJC RSX

When I said you absolutely wouldn't be able to get the new TL for below MSRP, that is assuming all of the dealers decide it is in their best interest to do so, which they would, because offering immediate negotiations would risk less allocations from Acura in future months. Some dealers may take this risk, however, but I doubt it because the new TL will be very hard to obtain, at least for the first couple months. Acura doesn't necessarily make a fixed amount, you don't know what other deals and relations they have with all the different dealerships.

huskerfan

I'm not an expert but from what I understand the dealer pays Acura a fixed price (Invoice) which is not the actual dealers cost because of dealer incentives, etc. The invoice is what the dealer wants you to think is his cost. The dealers that move the most cars get the best incentives from the manufacturer. For example, when the 2003's first came out a local dealer who said they had "one simple price" (i.e. a big discount with no negotiating) were trying to sell me at MSRP. I contacted a dealer in another city who sold me my 2003 TL Type S for about $2500 less. Do you honesty believe that Acura gets any share of what the dealer makes? If the dealer finds someone to pay more than MSRP, do you think they send that excess profit to Acura Hq? Each dealer figures out his fixed overhead and based on his volume and demand what he must get for each car. When the NSX first came out they were selling for more than MSRP, but that was based on demand. I'm planning on buying a 2004 TL this fall but I doubt I will be paying MSRP.

phile

Like the others, I think the more likely scenario is that the dealerships buy from Acura at a fixed price, and deal accordingly and within the guidelines set forth by whomever, whether it be Acura or someone else.

At least that's how most other franchises work. For example, you go to a Wal-mart in town A and you may buy an item there that is cheaper than what Wal-mart in town B charges for the very same item. It may be due to the location or the demand for the item varies according to the region. But most likely, those two Walmarts paid the same price for the merchandise from the manufacturers.

huskerfan

A little more info on Elliot Scheiner from Audio World:

Elliot Scheiner is one of the hottest recording engineers of the moment, and the reigning champ of the 5.1 surround audio mixdown (Steely Dan, Faith Hill, Flaming Lips, Queen, Beck, R.E.M., Van Morrison, The Eagles...). In the world of audio production, and especially the DVD-Audio initiative, he is a star shining brightly.

RJC RSX

Well I'm going to find out more tomorrow. The info I posted came from a friend of mine who has been very honest with me and is a reliable guy from the dealership. So I'll find out what's behind his logic and should be back with an update tomorrow.

need4spd_RENAMED

I’m still a little skeptical a pre-order spec sheet exists, I will believe it when I see it.

Until then, I will not be holding my breath.

IMO – Earliest we will see what the car really has (in the form of an allocation sheet) is mid-August.

But I hope someone makes me eat my words!

Also, I like my music, however, I would give a bigger emphasis on the music coming from the car and it's exhaust first. Don't think the TL will provide that type of symphony though, it will be on the quite side instead.

huskerfan

Latest post in the CL/TL forum from civalittle:

"Hey everyone. After returning from a function away at school, I have a lil info ab the 04 TL. My buddy who works in the central ohio plant recently picked off a shift knob off the MT sport edition. Also, no definite knowledge of the new engines displacement, but power is rated at 275 in the sport edition. Finally, I am told the headlights in the new TL carry the exact part number as the TSX's. Heavy production will not begin for a few months."

Raheel

No one said they were SPEC Sheets, Like they wont have HP Numbers or something..

Motor said he knew there were 18 in. rims so I guess it is a option/accessories sheet..

I dont know I am guessing so dont flame

provench

So it sounds like sport edition has to be referring to the HPT. So that means the "non-HPT" will have something less than 275? Cool that they will share the headlights with the TSX ... first off ... they are bada$$ headlights and ... second ... it will bring Acura some grill brand recognition

huskerfan

I hope that's not true. I currently have a 2003 TL Type S that my wife drives. I will be greatly dissapointed if the 2004 TL w/auto doesn't have more HP than my 2003.

SPUDMTN

Hello-

First off, I would just like to say nice website! I've been following this subject here and other places Anyway, to what I was going to post about...

With all due respect, VtecMW, I think that the LUXURY car market is all about little "wow" features--LUXURY items. Power leather seats and a dash of wood (or plood) here and there don't cut it anymore, because any auto maker can do that. To be taken seriously in the luxury car market, little items like an amazing stereo or Bluetooth aren't just nice--they're necessary. A luxury car is about all things in excess...

Acura is headed in the right direction to prove that they are a force to be reckoned with.

SPUDMTN

larchmont

Take a look on Off Topic!

phile

But it's a new engine, though. I think it's a fair bet that even if the new TL should come standard with less hp than the current Type-S, the power delivery might be better, i.e.,the torque curve may be flatter. It's like how everyone was somewhat let down when they heard the redesigned Accord's V6 was still a 3.0L, but now no one's complaining.

jwaters943

I'm sorry, but I just can't see the "base" TL having less than 260hp standard. The Accord has 240, as does the Altima and these are much less expensive cars. The G35 has 260 on the sedan and I can't see Acura passing up this opportunity to best it's HP numbers. I personally think the info. about the HP being different for the HPT version is bogus, but that's just my opinion as I have no "inside" information.

RJC RSX

i agree, i expect hp to be the same across all the trim lines. My guess is 280, give or take a few ponies

ender

Guaranteed the TL will be discounted..... it could be 3 months or 3 years before that happens. This is the most anticipated car in the Acura line up. When the 99 TL debuted it was on a waiting list for months, do you think there was a discount? The MDX at our dealership did'nt sell for less than MSRP until late summer 02.
Think about this, whenever a car is discounted it defaces the marque cars that are discounted straight out have for the most part proven to be poor sellers and have poor resale value. So what do you want a car that holds its value or a car thats discounted and is worthless when you trade it in. Personally I think the car sell for what its worth, If you the customer goes to the dealership and buy the car at MSRP then it is worth MSRP. If you fail to do so then the dealer will discount until he reaches a number that gets buyers i.e TSX's.


Just my 2 cents, flame all you want.