Acura: TLX News
04-19-2014, 09:59 PM
#8601
Come now. You aren't really comparing unique models of various products which have stood the test of time with an entire line of cars which have been steadily losing market share, are you?
Even at that, the 911 has evolved drastically, despite the continued resemblance in shape and the location of the engine. Last time I checked, the 737 has gone through numerous variants and advancements.
Porsche, Rolex, Colt, and Boeing found a winning design for a single product and wisely stuck with it. Acura has just been stubborn and the market isn't looking at their cars with a feeling of nostalgia. They're looking at them (on average) with a feeling of disinterest.
Even at that, the 911 has evolved drastically, despite the continued resemblance in shape and the location of the engine. Last time I checked, the 737 has gone through numerous variants and advancements.
Porsche, Rolex, Colt, and Boeing found a winning design for a single product and wisely stuck with it. Acura has just been stubborn and the market isn't looking at their cars with a feeling of nostalgia. They're looking at them (on average) with a feeling of disinterest.
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ttribe (04-19-2014)
04-20-2014, 03:42 AM
#8602
Go Giants
Sigh. Call me when we have a TLX-S. Lots of nice tech, and the interior is pretty good, but they dulled the exterior somewhat from the concept car. I'm sure it will grow on me eventually, but I don't think I'll be a buyer.
Meanwhile, RLXs with Navi, used, less than 10k miles, are going for $35k, yes, $35k, at multiple dealers. That is the luxury steal of the year.
And yes, I'm the nitwit who actually likes the RLX, especially with a decent set of wheels.
Meanwhile, RLXs with Navi, used, less than 10k miles, are going for $35k, yes, $35k, at multiple dealers. That is the luxury steal of the year.
And yes, I'm the nitwit who actually likes the RLX, especially with a decent set of wheels.
04-20-2014, 08:10 AM
#8603
@ used RLX's already
04-20-2014, 11:09 AM
#8604
@ RLX's best in class/superior resale value
04-20-2014, 12:56 PM
#8605
you can get certified 2012 740Li at 50% depreciation and that is with 19inch rims and full leather interior. not the bare bones RLX navi interior. Euro currency has moved up the value against the dollar but yen has devalued. Losses to BMW leases are much higher.
http://www.acuraofserramonte.com/cer...888696df47.htm
http://www.acuraofserramonte.com/cer...888696df47.htm
04-20-2014, 02:04 PM
#8606
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
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2012 is nearly 3 years old at this point, not less than 1 year.
keep trying.
keep trying.
04-20-2014, 02:17 PM
#8607
While their power plenum certainly hasn't done any favors for them, I disagree that it and the recession were the "two main issues" for the bland/boring and sometimes 
cars they were putting out.
You want us to believe that Acura's car line up has been in a lull since 2007 because of the power plenum and recession, and that they are also the reasons for why a single Acura hasn't made Car and Driver's 10 Best list since 2006?
I think part of it is because Acura lost their focus, competitive spirit and whatever it was that inspired them. Combine that with their insistence on keeping their Honda+ "brand positioning" and they kept putting out bland/boring cars. Their decision to finally separate Acura from Honda may change that.
cars they were putting out.You want us to believe that Acura's car line up has been in a lull since 2007 because of the power plenum and recession, and that they are also the reasons for why a single Acura hasn't made Car and Driver's 10 Best list since 2006?
I think part of it is because Acura lost their focus, competitive spirit and whatever it was that inspired them. Combine that with their insistence on keeping their Honda+ "brand positioning" and they kept putting out bland/boring cars. Their decision to finally separate Acura from Honda may change that.
call the brand positioning whatever you want, but acura had their most success with that same brand positioning. so, I don't see how you can say, 'the problem is brand positioning' when they were successful with that very same brand positioning.
the difference I see is that acura/honda hasn't built a sports oriented model in some time, but those offerings were never the big sellers.
where are you getting this from? quotes or link?
04-20-2014, 02:44 PM
#8608
BMW 335 with these packages is about $50k car. the same price as RLX with Navigation. Plus it has free maintainance.
http://www.bmwoffremont.com/VehicleD...-CA/2173894573
it is very common for BMW to lose that much value across all the series. with BMW 7 the most depreciated.
04-20-2014, 02:51 PM
#8609
Moderator
It was in his original post - https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...postcount=8534
04-20-2014, 04:38 PM
#8610
Like I said before, I think Acura's been on the decline for at least the past 7 years. That would put it before 2008... before the power plenum and before the recession.
Sony had their most successful period in the '80s and early '90s. But that success is now long gone and they've been struggling to replicate that success.
BlackBerry (a.k.a. Research in Motion) had their most successful period with mobile phones last decade. But that success in now gone and they too have been struggling to replicate that success.
Hewlett Packard had their most successful period before the start of the 21st century. You know what? That success in gone too and they've likewise been struggling to replicate that success.
What do all these companies (and many others who were once but are no longer successful) have in common? Lack of vision and innovation. They stopped being competitive. They stuck to their old formula of success.
- Integra (with the exception of the GS-R)
- Legend
- MDX
- RSX (was successful at least during the first couple years)
- 1G TSX
- 3G TL
- 2G RL (was successful at least during the first couple years)
Last edited by AZuser; 04-20-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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04-20-2014, 07:09 PM
#8611
Lola
The new Honda Spirior at the Beijing autoshow, I think it looks better than TLX. It rides on the same Accord platform, and shares the same 2.4L engine and 8-speed DCT with the TLX:
04-20-2014, 08:50 PM
#8612
▒JDM ¥ KING▒
04-20-2014, 09:13 PM
#8613
Some dude
I like it. Is that supposed to be a class above the Accord?
04-20-2014, 09:19 PM
#8614
Lola
04-20-2014, 09:26 PM
#8616
Just take off the side moldings and that's a damn good looking Accord. Not that there's anything wrong with the 2013+.
04-20-2014, 09:36 PM
#8618
Acura's decline (IMO) started before any of those power plenum cars came out, the earliest of which was the 4G TL in Sept 2008, and before the recession hit in late 2008.
Like I said before, I think Acura's been on the decline for at least the past 7 years. That would put it before 2008... before the power plenum and before the recession.
Like I said before, I think Acura's been on the decline for at least the past 7 years. That would put it before 2008... before the power plenum and before the recession.
Acura light trucks continued to break sales records in 2013 with RDX smashing previous bests and the all-new MDX completing a strong fourth quarter with its best-ever month to push Acura trucks to their best sales year ever.
RDX recorded monthly bests for 20 straight months, completing its record run in 2013 with a total sales increase of 51.6 percent for the year.
MDX sales continued to rise sharply, delivering a 29.0-percent increase in December for its best month in history on strong customer demand and improving vehicle inventories. Full-year sales were up 4.3 percent to 53,040.
RLX brought solid growth to the luxury sedan segment for Acura in an abbreviated model year, posting sales of 5,053 since going on sale last Spring.
"Customers are finding the combination of luxury, comfort, performance and utility in the RDX and MDX to be pretty irresistible," said Jeff Conrad, vice president and general manager of Acura Sales. "With the strongest light truck lineup in our history, we're now turning our focus on our sedan lineup with the all-new TLX to deliver further growth for Acura in 2014."
RDX recorded monthly bests for 20 straight months, completing its record run in 2013 with a total sales increase of 51.6 percent for the year.
MDX sales continued to rise sharply, delivering a 29.0-percent increase in December for its best month in history on strong customer demand and improving vehicle inventories. Full-year sales were up 4.3 percent to 53,040.
RLX brought solid growth to the luxury sedan segment for Acura in an abbreviated model year, posting sales of 5,053 since going on sale last Spring.
"Customers are finding the combination of luxury, comfort, performance and utility in the RDX and MDX to be pretty irresistible," said Jeff Conrad, vice president and general manager of Acura Sales. "With the strongest light truck lineup in our history, we're now turning our focus on our sedan lineup with the all-new TLX to deliver further growth for Acura in 2014."
3g tl sold 332,772 while the 4g sold (through 2013) 156,796, that's a huge disparity. think that might have has something to do with the power plenum? I do.
Exactly, their most successful period was had using that old formula. Had. Where is that success now? That success is gone and they've been struggling to replicate that success ever since.
Sony had their most successful period in the '80s and early '90s. But that success is now long gone and they've been struggling to replicate that success.
BlackBerry (a.k.a. Research in Motion) had their most successful period with mobile phones last decade. But that success in now gone and they too have been struggling to replicate that success.
Hewlett Packard had their most successful period before the start of the 21st century. You know what? That success in gone too and they've likewise been struggling to replicate that success.
What do all these companies (and many others who were once but are no longer successful) have in common? Lack of vision and innovation. They stopped being competitive. They stuck to their old formula of success.
Sony had their most successful period in the '80s and early '90s. But that success is now long gone and they've been struggling to replicate that success.
BlackBerry (a.k.a. Research in Motion) had their most successful period with mobile phones last decade. But that success in now gone and they too have been struggling to replicate that success.
Hewlett Packard had their most successful period before the start of the 21st century. You know what? That success in gone too and they've likewise been struggling to replicate that success.
What do all these companies (and many others who were once but are no longer successful) have in common? Lack of vision and innovation. They stopped being competitive. They stuck to their old formula of success.
what's your point? I wasn't saying that acura's only success came with sports oriented models, just pointing out one difference between then and now, a lack of sports oriented models.
04-20-2014, 10:07 PM
#8619
We just need to accept the fact that SUVs/crossovers are now Honda/Acura's new cash cow. New Honda is like the old Toyota. They will build what the market wants or what they can sell a lot of, at least.
Doesn't matter if you're a shareholder unless you're a guy sitting at that big corporate table. Or if you've owned Acuras for decades.
I just think it's a shame because that means less competition in some segments.
Doesn't matter if you're a shareholder unless you're a guy sitting at that big corporate table. Or if you've owned Acuras for decades.
I just think it's a shame because that means less competition in some segments.
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VR1 (04-21-2014)
04-21-2014, 10:29 AM
#8621
AZ Community Team
Come now. You aren't really comparing unique models of various products which have stood the test of time with an entire line of cars which have been steadily losing market share, are you?
Even at that, the 911 has evolved drastically, despite the continued resemblance in shape and the location of the engine. Last time I checked, the 737 has gone through numerous variants and advancements.
Porsche, Rolex, Colt, and Boeing found a winning design for a single product and wisely stuck with it. Acura has just been stubborn and the market isn't looking at their cars with a feeling of nostalgia. They're looking at them (on average) with a feeling of disinterest.
Even at that, the 911 has evolved drastically, despite the continued resemblance in shape and the location of the engine. Last time I checked, the 737 has gone through numerous variants and advancements.
Porsche, Rolex, Colt, and Boeing found a winning design for a single product and wisely stuck with it. Acura has just been stubborn and the market isn't looking at their cars with a feeling of nostalgia. They're looking at them (on average) with a feeling of disinterest.
Originally Posted by CarbonGray Earl 
A company is making exactly the same thing as it did previously, even in the face of growing competition in one of the more competitive segments of the market.
This is a winning strategy?
A company is making exactly the same thing as it did previously, even in the face of growing competition in one of the more competitive segments of the market.
This is a winning strategy?
Also I made note that rarely do things stay constant, but I also pointed out some examples where there have been incremental changes but the basic product's features and functions have remained relatively constant.
The 737 is a great example, it's been through two major redesigns but still retains the same fuselage diameter, mechanical flight controls, and still does not have main landing gear doors.
The 911? I was looking carefully at a couple dozen of them from the 60's to current recently. The interior on the 70's from my eyes did not change at all for the entire decade of the 70's. However it did have incremental changes, nothing drastic until the 993 then the 996 came out which was a total redesign.
Not sure what the original statement was for? Was it Acura? Cause they've been changing direction all over the place in the last decade, to little avail.
Not true, the 911 has been profitable for decades. It keep the company alive in the 90's when it was the only product at times.
Also the Cayenne was losing money initially even with the Design/Development/Production amoritization schedule. The problem was the warranty claims were much higher than anticipated since Porsche discovered the hard way that Cayenne owners were using their SUV's than traditional sportscar warranty claims it was used to. There was a good article about the Cayenne in the Wall Street Journal that got into that. Porsche finally got a handle on the warranty issues with it's suppliers and better process.
Legend2TL, I respect your opinion. Doesn't it go without saying that those are VERY good examples, almost best of breed? I don't think Acura or the TLX belongs in that group. Let's not drag the discussion into broad analogies.
What's the saying...if it ain't broke don't fix it? I don't think that applies to Acura...they are trying to fix Acura, are they not?
What's the saying...if it ain't broke don't fix it? I don't think that applies to Acura...they are trying to fix Acura, are they not?
As to your question, I agree I picked some of the best examples and best of the breed as you say. And also agree I would not put the TLX in that category, but the MDX is slowly getting there (not there yet). It's becoming a household name/reputation, has done very well with sales, and redesigns.
They are trying to fix Acura, no doubt which brings me to my main point that to me in the mid 2000's Acura had established a decent sedan product family. Then a bunch of factors (that have been discussed in this thread) including mistakes but H/A came and the sales results show that today.
Today there's alot to fix on the Acura sedan side, time will see if the new leadership will get there.
04-21-2014, 10:52 AM
#8622
We just need to accept the fact that SUVs/crossovers are now Honda/Acura's new cash cow. New Honda is like the old Toyota. They will build what the market wants or what they can sell a lot of, at least.
Doesn't matter if you're a shareholder unless you're a guy sitting at that big corporate table. Or if you've owned Acuras for decades.
I just think it's a shame because that means less competition in some segments.
Doesn't matter if you're a shareholder unless you're a guy sitting at that big corporate table. Or if you've owned Acuras for decades.
I just think it's a shame because that means less competition in some segments.
04-21-2014, 10:55 AM
#8623
Moderator
If I never heard the term "power plenum" again, it would be too soon.
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04-21-2014, 03:18 PM
#8624
You'll Never Walk Alone
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In my post, I posted results from three different tests of the A4 in different forms. Car magazines don't always test the same car with the same tranny multiple times unfortunately. You are right, it's not fair if I only post the slowest time of a car. However, I posted 3 different sets of figures. I'm not sure if that still counts as only posting the slowest time. Enlighten me please.
Actually, you are must definitely correct that I picked the slowest time. That's right, I posted the slowest time I found for the TSX V6. Thank you for the reminder. In case you are interested, here is the link to the other test that involves the TSX V6 5AT: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...-tsx-v6-page-3
0-60mph: 6s instead of 6.1s
5-60mph: 6.2s instead of 6.3s
1/4 mile: 14.6s@99mph instead of 14.7s@97mph
And in this test, it once again illustrates my previous point perfectly that on a roll, a NA powered vehicle might have the advantage.
Regal CXL Turbo:
0-60mph: 7.5s
5-60mph: 8.3s
VW CC 2.0T R-line
0-60mph: 6.4s
5-60mph: 7.2s
TSX V6:
0-60mph: 6.0s
5-60mph: 6.2s
Keep in mind that the CXL Turbo makes its peak torque of 258lbft at 2000rpm while the CC 2.0T makes 207lbft of peak torque at just 1700rpm. The low tech TSX with the ancient 5AT makes 254lbft at a sky high 5000rpm.
Again, I'm not showing just one example. I have shown multiple examples of the A4, and I have added other turbocharged cars in the mix in the form of Regal and VW. I think you'd agree with me that other than BMW, Audi and VW make some of the best turbo mills too, right? It's not like I'm choosing a Hyundai for my examples.
And once again, this is not a dig to turbocharged cars. There are fantastic ones out there. All I'm showing here is that, from a low-speed roll, a turbocharged car takes a bit more time to get the boost going. That would give a NA engine with less torque a bit of an advantage. It's not guaranteed that a turbocharged car with similar horsepower can outrun an equivalent NA car.
04-21-2014, 05:28 PM
#8625
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Oh jesus. Don't even remember when that post was made.
The point I'm making is that people don't look at 5-60 mph time to make the final decision in car shopping.
Maybe you do.
The performance test results by car magazines do NOT make or break the car's sales numbers since only a very small part of the general buyer is the car "enthusiast". And even then, the true enthusiasts don't go for TSX over the competitors not just because TSX looks vanilla, but also for the fact that the TSX does not have as much "driving feel" and/or "mod potential" as the other sedans in the category.
More I think about it, more odd how you think "outrunning" other cars from 5-60 mph roll race is relevant to whatever we are discussing about. I actually don't even know why we are even talking about this.
The point I'm making is that people don't look at 5-60 mph time to make the final decision in car shopping.
Maybe you do.
The performance test results by car magazines do NOT make or break the car's sales numbers since only a very small part of the general buyer is the car "enthusiast". And even then, the true enthusiasts don't go for TSX over the competitors not just because TSX looks vanilla, but also for the fact that the TSX does not have as much "driving feel" and/or "mod potential" as the other sedans in the category.
More I think about it, more odd how you think "outrunning" other cars from 5-60 mph roll race is relevant to whatever we are discussing about. I actually don't even know why we are even talking about this.
04-21-2014, 05:51 PM
#8626
So it's not just me. I was wondering where the hell that came from - it's bad enough the current dialogue in this thread sucks.
04-21-2014, 06:11 PM
#8627
Team Owner
He is referring me talking about 20-100mph acceleration (which is what you usually feel in real life 20-60mph, 40-80mph, or 60-100mph. Passing accelerations)
i chose not to rely because he kept on bring up 5-60 mph, which to me is just as irrelevant as 0-60.
Many exotics can do 0-60 in 4.X secs.. and some 335i can do high 4s too. but we all know there is no way in hell they have the same accelerations.
i chose not to rely because he kept on bring up 5-60 mph, which to me is just as irrelevant as 0-60.
Many exotics can do 0-60 in 4.X secs.. and some 335i can do high 4s too. but we all know there is no way in hell they have the same accelerations.
04-21-2014, 06:14 PM
#8628
Team Owner
04-21-2014, 06:19 PM
#8629
Agreed - it's more striking than the TLX.
04-21-2014, 06:30 PM
#8630
yea. yea. the TLX prototype was also very "striking" before it was toned down for the production..
wait to see how toned down this prototype is going to be before you guys start salivating, or we'll have another huge thread asking for the heads of honda corp.
wait to see how toned down this prototype is going to be before you guys start salivating, or we'll have another huge thread asking for the heads of honda corp.
04-21-2014, 06:40 PM
#8631
Team Owner
I never thought TLX prototype was striking. I thought it looked ok...
Last Acura prototype i thought was striking was CL-S in early 2000s.
Last Acura prototype i thought was striking was CL-S in early 2000s.
04-22-2014, 12:08 PM
#8633
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
04-22-2014, 12:44 PM
#8634
Suzuka Master
That Honda Spirior makes me hate the TLX even more
04-22-2014, 12:52 PM
#8635
I like the Spirior Concept, but I think Acura design would ruin it with you-know-what. (hint: it rhymes with flower flenum)
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ttribe (04-22-2014)
04-22-2014, 02:26 PM
#8636
The sizzle in the Steak
Acura delays 2015 TLX launch until summer
Acura has reportedly confirmed that it has delayed the launch window for its all-new TLX sedan, which was unveiled at the New York Auto Show.
The car was initially expected to begin driving off the production line as early as May, however the company is said to have postponed shipments until sometime late this summer.
"We don't view it as a major delay," Acura spokesperson Chuck Schifsky told Autoblog, noting that there are "lots of systems to get sorted out" in the company's most technologically advanced Acura yet.
"The TLX has more advanced and customer-relevant technology than on any other Acura model in our history, and we must assure that all systems are ready for mass production," the company allegedly wrote in a note to dealers. "Further, it is critical that we have a stable and sustainable supply of vehicles and components to support the strong customer response that we expect for this all-new Acura sedan."
When it arrives, the TLX will serve as a replacement for both the TSX and TL sedans. The all-new model features a choice between two new transmissions, including an eight-speed dual-clutch gearbox or a nine-speed automatic. It can be purchased with Acura's next-generation "Super Handling" all-wheel-drive system, which is 25 percent lighter than its predecessor, and also offers a new Integrated Dynamics System that manages a wide range of settings.
The car was initially expected to begin driving off the production line as early as May, however the company is said to have postponed shipments until sometime late this summer.
"We don't view it as a major delay," Acura spokesperson Chuck Schifsky told Autoblog, noting that there are "lots of systems to get sorted out" in the company's most technologically advanced Acura yet.
"The TLX has more advanced and customer-relevant technology than on any other Acura model in our history, and we must assure that all systems are ready for mass production," the company allegedly wrote in a note to dealers. "Further, it is critical that we have a stable and sustainable supply of vehicles and components to support the strong customer response that we expect for this all-new Acura sedan."
When it arrives, the TLX will serve as a replacement for both the TSX and TL sedans. The all-new model features a choice between two new transmissions, including an eight-speed dual-clutch gearbox or a nine-speed automatic. It can be purchased with Acura's next-generation "Super Handling" all-wheel-drive system, which is 25 percent lighter than its predecessor, and also offers a new Integrated Dynamics System that manages a wide range of settings.
04-22-2014, 02:28 PM
#8637
Team Owner
Why did they unveil the production car and release date when it is not ready for production?
04-22-2014, 02:40 PM
#8639
The sizzle in the Steak
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04-22-2014, 03:02 PM
#8640
Moderator
They're announcing a delay inside a week of unveiling the production version? This brand is a train-wreck. Wow.
Last edited by ttribe; 04-22-2014 at 03:06 PM.