Acura: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News
12-26-2005, 04:58 PM
#681
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Acura isn't a luxury brand IMO. Especially when compared to the upper-end cars offered by luxury manufacturers (lexus, BMW, Benz, etc).
However,
Japanese quality > German quality.
However,
Japanese quality > German quality.
12-27-2005, 02:28 AM
#683
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
Acura isn't a luxury brand IMO. Especially when compared to the upper-end cars offered by luxury manufacturers (lexus, BMW, Benz, etc).
However,
Japanese quality > German quality.
However,
Japanese quality > German quality.
Apparently Honda admits this and will be marketing Acura in the US (and Japan soon) as more sporty than Honda's cars. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. To me an S2000 is simply too raw to be marketed as an Acura for example.
12-27-2005, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
Acura isn't a luxury brand IMO. Especially when compared to the upper-end cars offered by luxury manufacturers (lexus, BMW, Benz, etc).
However,
Japanese quality > German quality.
However,
Japanese quality > German quality.
I usually see Acura more like an option package upgrade compared to similar Honda products. Don't get me wrong, Honda products are excellent, but looking at their offerings, the RSX is a nicer Civic, the TSX is a slightly smaller, and more sporty Accord. The TL is a more luxurious Accord, the MDX is a Pilot with a different body and more standard features.
While each car is excellent, and I love Honda/Acura quality and reliability (that's why I have had 2 Accords and a CL) I agree that I don't really view them in the same class as BMW, MB, Audi or Lexus.
In addition, my old Acura dealer treated me no different than my new Honda dealer. Compared to my fiancee's Lexus dealer, it is a night and day difference from Acura.
12-27-2005, 11:17 AM
#685
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Honda will strengthen Acura's image **BAR Acura? (page 4)**
Honda will strengthen Acura's image - - James B. Treece - - Source: Automotive News
TOKYO - Honda Motor Co. will try to give the Acura brand a stronger identity.
"We're going to differentiate the Honda and Acura brands and grow both," Honda CEO Takeo Fukui says.
As one step to differentiate its two brands, Honda is reorganizing its engineering staff. Engineers will be asked to develop features and attributes that clearly support each brand's identity. Fukui says Acura will
continue as a sporty performance brand. It will not attempt to be a luxury brand like Lexus.
Honda will not separate Honda and Acura designers, he says. Toyota Motor Corp. separated Toyota and Lexus stylists before launching the Lexus brand in Japan in August.
Honda will launch its Acura brand in China next year and in Japan by the autumn of 2008. Stronger identities for each brand will be necessary when they are sold together in Japan.
The Acura brand debuted in the United States in 1986.
In China, the Acura lineup will include the RL and the U.S.-built TL. China also will get the successor to the NSX sports car. Fukui says the debut date of the NSX's successor has not been set.
Honda has not said what Acura models will be sold in Japan. The RL now is sold in Japan as the Honda Legend. Other Acura models also are badged as Hondas in Japan.
"We're going to differentiate the Honda and Acura brands and grow both," Honda CEO Takeo Fukui says.
As one step to differentiate its two brands, Honda is reorganizing its engineering staff. Engineers will be asked to develop features and attributes that clearly support each brand's identity. Fukui says Acura will
continue as a sporty performance brand. It will not attempt to be a luxury brand like Lexus.
Honda will not separate Honda and Acura designers, he says. Toyota Motor Corp. separated Toyota and Lexus stylists before launching the Lexus brand in Japan in August.
Honda will launch its Acura brand in China next year and in Japan by the autumn of 2008. Stronger identities for each brand will be necessary when they are sold together in Japan.
The Acura brand debuted in the United States in 1986.
In China, the Acura lineup will include the RL and the U.S.-built TL. China also will get the successor to the NSX sports car. Fukui says the debut date of the NSX's successor has not been set.
Honda has not said what Acura models will be sold in Japan. The RL now is sold in Japan as the Honda Legend. Other Acura models also are badged as Hondas in Japan.
12-27-2005, 12:10 PM
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It's about time!!!! Acura needs to be its own company in terms of engineering and design.
The only area I am concerned about it the design area though. Honda doesn't have a massive design force so it remains to be seen if the team working on the next Accord can give it a "Honda" look then work on the next RL and give it an Acura look.
Engineering seems simple enough in that Acura will have some things Honda won't. Now this makes me wonder about a future AWD Accord in that 1. will it happen and 2. will it be SH-AWD.
Or will Honda's not be too sporty while Acura's will be in terms of handling. After the RDX's into and the into of the new CRV we'll see what Honda has in store for future products.
The only area I am concerned about it the design area though. Honda doesn't have a massive design force so it remains to be seen if the team working on the next Accord can give it a "Honda" look then work on the next RL and give it an Acura look.
Engineering seems simple enough in that Acura will have some things Honda won't. Now this makes me wonder about a future AWD Accord in that 1. will it happen and 2. will it be SH-AWD.
Or will Honda's not be too sporty while Acura's will be in terms of handling. After the RDX's into and the into of the new CRV we'll see what Honda has in store for future products.
12-27-2005, 12:40 PM
#689
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
I usually see Acura more like an option package upgrade compared to similar Honda products. Don't get me wrong, Honda products are excellent, but looking at their offerings, the RSX is a nicer Civic, the TSX is a slightly smaller, and more sporty Accord. The TL is a more luxurious Accord, the MDX is a Pilot with a different body and more standard features.
While each car is excellent, and I love Honda/Acura quality and reliability (that's why I have had 2 Accords and a CL) I agree that I don't really view them in the same class as BMW, MB, Audi or Lexus.
In addition, my old Acura dealer treated me no different than my new Honda dealer. Compared to my fiancee's Lexus dealer, it is a night and day difference from Acura.
Another point is that Acura has a more limited model lineup than other makes like BMW and MB, so you have less choices and end up having to do your own mods to get more HP, or a different look, etc. whereas BMW and MB have sedans, coupes, sport models, etc. Maybe if Acura expanded its offerings, they could add more luxurious models (although they would of course be more expensive, but might also bring them into more direct competition with the likes of BMW and MB).
But anyway, based on my own past experiences, Acura is "luxury" to me!
But this TSX is my own first car, so I have a long way to go!
12-27-2005, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken1997TL
Apparently Honda admits this and will be marketing Acura in the US (and Japan soon) as more sporty than Honda's cars. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. To me an S2000 is simply too raw to be marketed as an Acura for example.
12-27-2005, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
In a way, I see what you are saying. I guess your idea of luxury depends on what you are coming from in the past. This is my first Honda/Acura product. I've always driven Chrysler and Pontiac (parents' cars), and while the Chrysler dealership we've dealt with is ok and the people are nice, things are just a few steps up at Acura. Talk about plastic...drive a new Sebring and you'll see what plastic in a car can do to its aesthetic qualities! And the service is just top notch at my Acura dealer, too (Precision Acura of Princeton). I actually like going there. I'm not sure it's like that at every Acura dealer, but this one's great. They even call a few days after service to make sure you received "excellent service!" And they send you a letter, too. So basically the whole package is much better IMO from my past experiences. But it all boils down to what you are used to and what you expect.
Another point is that Acura has a more limited model lineup than other makes like BMW and MB, so you have less choices and end up having to do your own mods to get more HP, or a different look, etc. whereas BMW and MB have sedans, coupes, sport models, etc. Maybe if Acura expanded its offerings, they could add more luxurious models (although they would of course be more expensive, but might also bring them into more direct competition with the likes of BMW and MB).
But anyway, based on my own past experiences, Acura is "luxury" to me! But this TSX is my own first car, so I have a long way to go!
Another point is that Acura has a more limited model lineup than other makes like BMW and MB, so you have less choices and end up having to do your own mods to get more HP, or a different look, etc. whereas BMW and MB have sedans, coupes, sport models, etc. Maybe if Acura expanded its offerings, they could add more luxurious models (although they would of course be more expensive, but might also bring them into more direct competition with the likes of BMW and MB).
But anyway, based on my own past experiences, Acura is "luxury" to me!
But this TSX is my own first car, so I have a long way to go!Honda / Acura definitely are an excellent car manufacturer (one of my favorites actually), and Acura gives a lot of luxury for the money, but I just don't feel that Acura is up there with what I call the "majors" yet - MB / BMW / Audi / Lexus.
I feel the same way about Infiniti as well. Excellent cars, but they are not quite up there yet. I do think the M45 and FX45 are moving Infiniti in the right direction though.
12-27-2005, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
that's a great start; more BMW-ness, less MB-ness. But that's just my opinion.
Although I know what you're saying. They're not pursuing Lexus or Mercedes-Benz anymore.
12-27-2005, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SPUDMTN
Splitting hairs here: but I see Acura more as an Audi competitor. Like Audi, Acura goes for understated exterior designs, beautifully crafted interiors, performance-oriented (but still supple) handling characteristics, and Acura's latest focus: all wheel drive.
Although I know what you're saying. They're not pursuing Lexus or Mercedes-Benz anymore.
Although I know what you're saying. They're not pursuing Lexus or Mercedes-Benz anymore.
12-27-2005, 01:52 PM
#694
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some SAT Verbal prep for you guys...
lexus is to mercedes-benz
as
acura is to bmw
lexus is to mercedes-benz
as
acura is to bmw
12-27-2005, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by savage
some SAT Verbal prep for you guys...
lexus is to mercedes-benz
as
acura is to bmw
lexus is to mercedes-benz
as
acura is to bmw
I don't consider Acura to be anywhere near bmw now, or even in the future until acura can offer as many different options in the different models as BMW has in their model lineup.
if anything, they are more like Audi.
12-27-2005, 03:42 PM
#696
The sizzle in the Steak
Originally Posted by savage
acura is to bmw
You can't be serious.Acura is a far cry from BMW. No V8...no RWD...Type-S is no M.
BMW is by far the better sport/drivers car compared to Acura.
Granted Acura has the NSX, but it is the exception to the rule. The rest of the Acura line-up needs alot of work if they are to truly be in the class of BMW.
Acura makes great cars.....no doubt, but cars from Infiniti and Lexus are by far closer competitors to BMW than Acura is.
Honda is not commited to Acura becoming a top 3 lux-sport vehicle mfg.
...maybe they will change things...time will tell. Honda not separating Acura deisigners is a bad thing IMHO.
12-27-2005, 04:51 PM
#697
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Isnt this what they tried to do with the new RL.
Acura will need a lot more than just adding SH-AWD and increasing the price to compete with the others. Which has already been proven with the RL sales.
Im sure it will take time though.
Acura will need a lot more than just adding SH-AWD and increasing the price to compete with the others. Which has already been proven with the RL sales.
Im sure it will take time though.
12-27-2005, 05:28 PM
#698
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:gheylaugh:
Ok, let's see Acura put their money where their mouth is....
Talk is cheap, lets see some "sporty performance" vehicles... and hurry up, 'cause I'm looking at BMW, Infiniti, and Lexus for the source of my next car.
Ok, let's see Acura put their money where their mouth is....
Talk is cheap, lets see some "sporty performance" vehicles... and hurry up, 'cause I'm looking at BMW, Infiniti, and Lexus for the source of my next car.
12-27-2005, 05:57 PM
#699
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Originally Posted by GreenMonster
Talk is cheap, lets see some "sporty performance" vehicles... and hurry up, 'cause I'm looking at BMW, Infiniti, and Lexus for the source of my next car.
with all the competition out now the only way i'd consider an acura is if they switch to rwd or give all their cars sh-awd and their engines more torque (especially the low end) and offer a real sport package
12-27-2005, 07:04 PM
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Hmm...looks like the Chinese get an "updated" TL. I wonder if we'll see these tail lights...and check out the new mirrors (or rather, the RL mirrors)...
Does anyone know much about the Chinese economy/market? I wonder how Acura will do over there.
I just hope Honda does not do a half-assed job at smacking together their developing luxury brand. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes here in the USA and Canada. But IMHO, I think it would be wise for Acura to wait for a little while longer, just to see how Lexus does in Japan. Acura/Honda has always been rather late to the game, and it seems like this would be a perfect time to continue playing it that way.
Does anyone know much about the Chinese economy/market? I wonder how Acura will do over there.
I just hope Honda does not do a half-assed job at smacking together their developing luxury brand. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes here in the USA and Canada. But IMHO, I think it would be wise for Acura to wait for a little while longer, just to see how Lexus does in Japan. Acura/Honda has always been rather late to the game, and it seems like this would be a perfect time to continue playing it that way.
Last edited by SPUDMTN; 12-27-2005 at 07:08 PM.
12-27-2005, 07:36 PM
#704
The Oracle of Acurazine!
I don't know if any one esle mentioned this but Honda needs to keep their cars separated from Acura.
Like Euro Accord is our TSX, They need to keep same accord in each market and so on for other vehicles like Legend (RL).
Like Euro Accord is our TSX, They need to keep same accord in each market and so on for other vehicles like Legend (RL).
12-27-2005, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Teh Jatt
I don't know if any one esle mentioned this but Honda needs to keep their cars separated from Acura.
Like Euro Accord is our TSX, They need to keep same accord in each market and so on for other vehicles like Legend (RL).
Like Euro Accord is our TSX, They need to keep same accord in each market and so on for other vehicles like Legend (RL).
I'm guessing, however, that the next generation TSX will be its own model, considering its success here in America. If they separate the TSX from the Euro Accord, be it simply with new sheet metal and some suspension tweaks, they can have a new Acura model (for the global market).Acura cannot simply be a badge engineered product. It must be its own unique brand with its own uniquely designed vehicles.
12-27-2005, 07:44 PM
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If there's one thing I wish Acura would do is bring back the four door integra. Some may say that the TSX was the replacement for the four door integra. Well if that's the case, I want a Type-S (GS-R equiv) version damnit that only comes in stick (like the GS-R) to keep the posers from owning a sport car
12-27-2005, 08:05 PM
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They should differentiate the designers, give Acura the people that desgined the TL and TSX, and let Honda have the people that designed the RL, it already looks like a damn Accord 
12-27-2005, 08:57 PM
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Over all I like the pics of the China TL but there needs to be a new wheel design IMO.
And with everyone that has said the designers need to be separated I totally agree. Engineering changes to me seem easy and for the most part Honda is doing that already with both brands (although the lastest Car and Driver recored a V6 Accord 6spd's 0-60 in 5.9 sec which is faster then the TL or RL).
SPUDMTN I too agree that the next TSX will be it's own car and should be. The Sport4 Concept was nice looking enough and could serve as a great looking replacement for the current TSX.
So with the engineering comment, I'm guessing that the rumored turbo 4 is an Acura only engine. If so then good as that same motor can power the new TSX.
Also there was a comment regarding the performance aspect of Acura. Well there is the upcoming hybrid model. Yes, yes I know all about the cost verses (whatever) argument but right now IMA is a way for Acura to offer a performance model. I just wish it were something like what has been seen in past auto shows.
And with everyone that has said the designers need to be separated I totally agree. Engineering changes to me seem easy and for the most part Honda is doing that already with both brands (although the lastest Car and Driver recored a V6 Accord 6spd's 0-60 in 5.9 sec which is faster then the TL or RL).
SPUDMTN I too agree that the next TSX will be it's own car and should be. The Sport4 Concept was nice looking enough and could serve as a great looking replacement for the current TSX.
So with the engineering comment, I'm guessing that the rumored turbo 4 is an Acura only engine. If so then good as that same motor can power the new TSX.
Also there was a comment regarding the performance aspect of Acura. Well there is the upcoming hybrid model. Yes, yes I know all about the cost verses (whatever) argument but right now IMA is a way for Acura to offer a performance model. I just wish it were something like what has been seen in past auto shows.
12-27-2005, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by savage
some SAT Verbal prep for you guys...
lexus is to mercedes-benz
as
acura is to bmw
lexus is to mercedes-benz
as
acura is to bmw
as
Infiniti is to BMW
as
Acura is to Audi
12-27-2005, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 03TL-S
Lexus is to MB
as
Infiniti is to BMW
as
Acura is to Audi
as
Infiniti is to BMW
as
Acura is to Audi
12-28-2005, 12:07 AM
#711
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Infiniti is a lot closer to BMW than Acura is
G35 introduced in 2003 gave the 3 series a serious run for it's money, 260 horses, RWD, sport lux car, came with a 6 speed. Acura's answer was the 3.2CL, it was FWD and not very sporty.
Also with Infinitis new M45, it's damn close to the 5 series. It's got the luxury, and a bunch of magazines have raved about it's sportiness. The RL can't touch either in terms of performance.
G35 introduced in 2003 gave the 3 series a serious run for it's money, 260 horses, RWD, sport lux car, came with a 6 speed. Acura's answer was the 3.2CL, it was FWD and not very sporty.
Also with Infinitis new M45, it's damn close to the 5 series. It's got the luxury, and a bunch of magazines have raved about it's sportiness. The RL can't touch either in terms of performance.
12-28-2005, 03:11 AM
#712
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Originally Posted by SeCsTaC
Infiniti is a lot closer to BMW than Acura is
G35 introduced in 2003 gave the 3 series a serious run for it's money, 260 horses, RWD, sport lux car, came with a 6 speed. Acura's answer was the 3.2CL, it was FWD and not very sporty.
Also with Infinitis new M45, it's damn close to the 5 series. It's got the luxury, and a bunch of magazines have raved about it's sportiness. The RL can't touch either in terms of performance.
G35 introduced in 2003 gave the 3 series a serious run for it's money, 260 horses, RWD, sport lux car, came with a 6 speed. Acura's answer was the 3.2CL, it was FWD and not very sporty.
Also with Infinitis new M45, it's damn close to the 5 series. It's got the luxury, and a bunch of magazines have raved about it's sportiness. The RL can't touch either in terms of performance.
I'd take the '03 G35C 6MT over the '03 330Ci 6MT any day. As far as driver-oriented lux cars go, BMW > Infiniti > Acura = Audi.
12-28-2005, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by slyraskal
Infiniti isn't any closer to BMW as Acura is. If anything Infiniti is to Acura as Honda is to Nissan.
Last edited by 03TL-S; 12-28-2005 at 03:36 AM.
12-28-2005, 11:02 AM
#715
I think the back of that Chinese TL looks cheap compared to the US TL. I don't really care for the reflectors at the bottom of the car, they switched that greyish surround around the license plate to plain black. Only thing I like is the turn signal on the side mirrors.
12-28-2005, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 03TL-S
Im sorry but you are so wrong. As people stated above, the G35 was and still is a competitor to the 3 series and the M has outperformed the 5 series in many car comparos. The next g35 will be better and the GT-R will likely kill an M3. So yes, they are comparable. BMW cars are RWD and focus more on sportiness as does infiniti. Infiniti is usually always compared to the top lux brands now: MB, BMW, Lexus
Over the past several years, Infiniti has really stepped up its game. The G series did give the then current 3 a run for the money. BMW has moved the target and Infiniti will respond soon.
The M is a great carand has beaten the 5 series as well. But lets be honest, the RL has performed well too. Styling, weight and or minimal torque has hurt it. About 3 years ago or so, I cannot remember, Acura made a statement about targeting Audi and this started the talk about Acura going AWD but the current TL didn't come that way.
The center reflector in the bumper is odd but the reverse lights I could live with. Those clear lens over the rear lights looks fine but I was hoping the LED's would have a different look but who knows.
The front hasn't changed except for the front turn signals that are now clear which gives the car a nice look.
I wonder what the Hp/torque figures will be.
12-28-2005, 12:02 PM
#717
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So is this annoucement some sort of precusor to the unveiling of a new sporty performance vehicle from Acura ???
Maybe a coupe to be showcased at the carshows next year ??
Maybe Acura has something up it's sleeve to compete with this: "Nissan North America Inc.'s Infiniti luxury brand will debut the next-generation G35 lineup at the New York Auto Show in April."
Maybe a coupe to be showcased at the carshows next year ??
Maybe Acura has something up it's sleeve to compete with this: "Nissan North America Inc.'s Infiniti luxury brand will debut the next-generation G35 lineup at the New York Auto Show in April."
12-28-2005, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenMonster
Maybe Acura has something up it's sleeve to compete with this: "Nissan North America Inc.'s Infiniti luxury brand will debut the next-generation G35 lineup at the New York Auto Show in April."
12-28-2005, 03:54 PM
#719
The sizzle in the Steak
Originally Posted by slyraskal
It must be a damn long sleeve because we've been waiting for more than 2 years now.
I don't think a true sport-coupe is in Acura's near future. The last gen CL flopped in the market, and I don't think Acura is ready to market a coupe this soon. If Acura does decide to blow us all away with a new sport-coupe, it better not be FWD...otherwise it will fail too...IMHO.
12-28-2005, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
I don't think a true sport-coupe is in Acura's near future. The last gen CL flopped in the market, and I don't think Acura is ready to market a coupe this soon. If Acura does decide to blow us all away with a new sport-coupe, it better not be FWD...otherwise it will fail too...IMHO.