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It's just too expensive. The people who love Honda and Honda products are generally not uber wealthy people. It's generally your everyday people that drive Hondas and Acuras. Yet the NSX is priced for the wealthy. Honda entirely skipped over the people who love their products, when they decided on the price point of the NSX. The car is targeted at wealthier people, who I'm willing to bet, more often than not, look past Honda or Acura. I mean, some buy it... 17 people did so far this year... but those people seem like outliers, more than anything.
That, and the NSX is a stand alone product still. No Type S vehicles to back up the NSX in the entire line up. No actual sport. No thrill. It's more or less average Joe cars, followed by a super car. No wonder no one is buying
Even the 1st NSX was expensive for most people at $60,000 back then.
$60,000 in 1991 = $109,687.67 in 2018
Though the new NSX is even more expensive with a $158K starting price.
I think NSX would be doing a lot better.. relatively speaking.. if the price was $100k....
I think most of us saw this coming before the car was even released. Good or bad car aside. just a $150k Honda would kill the car itself. There are only so many Rich die hard Honda fans.
Even the 1st NSX was expensive for most people at $60,000 back then.
$60,000 in 1991 = $109,687.67 in 2018
Though the new NSX is even more expensive with a $158K starting price.
Yep, that's a huge disparity. Also, even though you can get some mad deals on the NSX, I don't think a lot of people know about the deals. Like, if you weren't actively looking into one, you'd see the 158k starting price and walk away. I don't think it needs to drop to 100k, but even at 120-125k, that thing would sell way better.
It's just too expensive. The people who love Honda and Honda products are generally not uber wealthy people. It's generally your everyday people that drive Hondas and Acuras. Yet the NSX is priced for the wealthy. Honda entirely skipped over the people who love their products, when they decided on the price point of the NSX. The car is targeted at wealthier people, who I'm willing to bet, more often than not, look past Honda or Acura. I mean, some buy it... 17 people did so far this year... but those people seem like outliers, more than anything.
That, and the NSX is a stand alone product still. No Type S vehicles to back up the NSX in the entire line up. No actual sport. No thrill. It's more or less average Joe cars, followed by a super car. No wonder no one is buying
Yeah. One of the guys over on the NSX subforum posts lot of useful insider material so to speak and I saw a training manual/presentation for a NSX sales, and one of the market research they did was that the average customer who buys in the NSX price point/segment makes an avg of 450k+ in household income...def in the 1% overall and likely not used to buying Acura/Hondas....NSX sales have dropped big time so far this year.
On the other hand, TLX must be pretty bad too as I just got 2 phone calls on my phone in the past 2 weeks of my local KC Acura dealer offering 0% 60mo on new 18 TLX's.......
The 1991 NSX came out at a time when the Japanese economy was very strong. But within the next few years, Japanese had a huge economic down turn. By 1994, many Japanese sports cars got way more expensive, including the NSX, which jumped to $77k, which in today's dollars, would be $130k.
For the 2G NSX, I think the engineering team won the battle against the bean counters. Otherwise, I'd imagine the car would have been priced cheaper. My understanding is that the current engine is extremely expensive as it's literally a bespoke race car engine. Perhaps it's a bit overkill for a car in this price range. IMO, Mercedes did it right with the AMG GT model after failing with the SLR and SLS AMG in a sense that sometimes even if your product is good, if it's too expensive for your brand image, it's not gonna sell. May be Honda can learn a thing or two from Mercedes and their AMG GT. Specifically, instead of designing and building a bespoke race car engine for the NSX, Honda can design a more "pedestrian" 3.5L V6 TT engine that can be used in other Acura models. And from that "base" engine, develop and build a more potent version for the NSX. This is what Mercedes is doing with their AMG GT with their M176/M177/M178 engine series. I'd imagine that could save them a good $30k.
The 1991 NSX came out at a time when the Japanese economy was very strong. But within the next few years, Japanese had a huge economic down turn. By 1994, many Japanese sports cars got way more expensive, including the NSX, which jumped to $77k, which in today's dollars, would be $130k.
For the 2G NSX, I think the engineering team won the battle against the bean counters. Otherwise, I'd imagine the car would have been priced cheaper. My understanding is that the current engine is extremely expensive as it's literally a bespoke race car engine. Perhaps it's a bit overkill for a car in this price range. IMO, Mercedes did it right with the AMG GT model after failing with the SLR and SLS AMG in a sense that sometimes even if your product is good, if it's too expensive for your brand image, it's not gonna sell. May be Honda can learn a thing or two from Mercedes and their AMG GT. Specifically, instead of designing and building a bespoke race car engine for the NSX, Honda can design a more "pedestrian" 3.5L V6 TT engine that can be used in other Acura models. And from that "base" engine, develop and build a more potent version for the NSX. This is what Mercedes is doing with their AMG GT with their M176/M177/M178 engine series. I'd imagine that could save them a good $30k.
+1, good post
The 2G NSX engineers certainly got their way with the tech on this platform.
There's alot going on from the hybrid drivetrain, Cosworth TT motor, DBW braking, and the chassis has some some tech as well.
Still wonder why they couldn't strengthen a J series like they did with the 1G NSX C series motor.
I also agree MB did it right with the AMG GT, by keeping it far simpler approach overall compared to the SLR and SLS.
In the end, I doubt lowering the price would increase 2G NSX sales much, Honda/Acura doesn't have the name cache of Porsche and Ferrari.
The C7 offers better performance value so lowering the price $30 it's still $40k more than a Z06.
That was known going in and despite good to very good reviews, it's not enough to overcome the manufacturer name.
Similar thing happened to the McLaren F1, despite being technically and performance superior to the Jaguar XJ220.
The McLaren engineers and exec's were baffled the XJ220 outsold almost 3x the F1 despite costing about the same.
^^IIRC, I read somewhere that the reason was due to the longitudinal motor layout in the platform (as opposed to the 1G NSX) that required a new motor and they couldn't mod the J to fit into the chassis.
ALso glad the engineers wont out though. I also read that the American side of Honda actually pushed for a more powerful motor than what the Japanese originally intended....
Hmm that I'm not sure man. I'd imagine at $120k ish, it would be quite a nice proposition for those desiring something more than just a V8 FR sports car. The performance might not be any better, but MR is more prestigious, and the hybrid setup IMO makes things more unique and interesting. That would put it just a bit more expensive than a Nissan GT-R. For that extra bit of money, you get a hybrid system + a MR setup. There might be more value there....not to mention the ride comfort, which is way better on the NSX than the GT-R.
Hmm that I'm not sure man. I'd imagine at $120k ish, it would be quite a nice proposition for those desiring something more than just a V8 FR sports car. The performance might not be any better, but MR is more prestigious, and the hybrid setup IMO makes things more unique and interesting. That would put it just a bit more expensive than a Nissan GT-R. For that extra bit of money, you get a hybrid system + a MR setup. There might be more value there....not to mention the ride comfort, which is way better on the NSX than the GT-R.
We'll see how the car ages. May be a thing where later in years that the 2G NSX becomes more appreciated/sought after.
Right now I feel the NSX is quite polarizing...those who hate it, really don't like it and those who like it ... quite like it. On NSX Prime there is a poster who went from Ferrari/Porsche to the NSX and feel the NSX is a better experience. And of course on many other places people do not like the NSX at all and think the clear value winner is a R8/911/570S for the same money. So goes both ways it seems.
I remember someone on here who posted pics of 10 cars he'd rather have than the NSX...and it included cars like a i3, Viper, and a S-class (or some other super high luxury 4 door sedan).....lol.....
Haha, ya, I remember when I was a kid, the opinions on the 1g NSX was quite divided too. Those who like it, know what it represents and why it was that pricey. Those who hate it on the other hand would ask why would people pay so much for a V6 powered car that makes less than 300hp when you can have a 400hp Z06 for like half the money or something.
I actually drove both an Audi R8 V10 Plus and NSX one after another on a track a few months ago. My butt dyno didn't detect any power difference between the two. I didn't think that the NSX would need more power from my experience. I really enjoyed that instant throttle response and as well as the instant torque delivery. Perhaps these two things really help with the experience. It's pretty damn fun to also drive at the limit of the tires in the NSX. I could feel feel the car rotating with the rear stepping out progressively, of which can be controlled easily with the steering angle and throttle input. The car gives you quite a bit of confidence to do crazy things without feeling like "omg I'm gonna lose control and spin out."
I have a feeling that people who tend to hate the NSX probably has never driven one....if they spend some quality time with the car, their opinion may be different.
Yeah, and now you have family sedans that can hit 60 in under 6 seconds (or family wagons that can do that in 3sec....heh) ...absolutely crazy awesome.
Pony standards of Camaro/Mustang are now at 450hp or so....when the top of the line Z06 2 generations ago didn't crank that much.
I still have yet to do 1 of those track day experiences....gonna have to try it out one of these days....
American Honda Posts March Sales Increase as Balanced Sales of Cars and Trucks Propel Honda and Acura
Apr 3, 2018
Honda brand sets new March record for total sales, rising 2.6%
AHM trucks set new March sales record with an increase of 7%
Honda brand truck sales jump 7% for best March sales
Acura TLX leaps 43% for best ever March sales; RDX gains 17%
"Honda's deep truck lineup helped the brand to a new March record, while Honda cars continue to pull their weight despite current market forces,” said Henio Arcangeli, Jr., senior vice president of the Automobile Division & general manager of Honda Sales.
"The Acura brand delivered another strong sales performance in March with TLX and RDX leading the charge with double-digit, year-over-year sales increases. While headwinds remain relative to midsize luxury sedan sales, TLX is continuing to pick up market share and outselling notable competitors."
Honda Sales Highlights
Honda found fresh momentum with a new total vehicle sales record in March as Accord continued to gain ground, Civic topped 32,000 sales, and light trucks set several new benchmarks.
Honda brand sales set a new March record, gaining 2.6% on sales of 128,855
Accord sales topped 24,000 for the month, moving up vs. last month while competing in a declining segment dominated by heavy incentives.
Pilot jumped 42.4% on sales of 14,158; Odyssey rose 27.8% on sales of 9,873.
HR-V had its best-ever March, rising 1.3% on sales of 7,753 vehicles.
Civic gained 3.4% on sales of 32,584 units.
Honda Model Notes
Passenger car leadership! Accord: 2018 North American Car of the Year; Civic: #1 retail car in America; Fit: retail #1 in segment.
America’s Best SUV brand gaining strength from increased supply of Pilot – up more than 50%
Acura Sales Highlights
Acura brand sales gained sharply in March, rising 15.7% as sedans enjoyed major gains, fueled primarily by record TLX sales and a strong month for RDX.
Total Acura car sales were up 35.2% in March, while trucks gained 6.4% for the month.
TLX starred for Acura, posting record March sales of 4,014, up 42.6% vs. March 2017. The sporty V6 A-Spec model has sparked new interest in TLX, as a new 4-cyl. A-Spec model enters the market today.
RDX sales also were robust in March, up 16.7% on sales of 4,398 units as the brand looks ahead to an all-new 2019 RDX this summer.
Acura Model Notes
TLX off to a great start in 2018, outselling Audi A4 and others. Arrival this week of 2.4L A-Spec model adds to momentum.
Already two of the top three luxury SUVs to younger buyers, the 2019 RDX and 2019 MDX will receive youthful A-Spec sport appearance variants in the next few months.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN1HX0JA Hyundai Motor first-quarter profit halves to six-year low on drab U.S. sales Hyundai has sharply lowered production at its U.S. factory to cut supply of unpopular sedans like the Elantra and Sonata, leading to the first-quarter earnings slump, the analyst said. He estimated Hyundai’s U.S. factory ran below 70 percent of its capacity, and will remain sluggish until it starts making the next-generation Santa Fe SUV by as early as May
.
This for Yeh. poor state of factory utilization and lowest profits in nearly a decade.
Core models Civic and CR-V remain strong with sales over 28,000 units
Honda Odyssey continues to cement sales leadership in minivan segment with 21% gain
Honda Pilot sales jump again in April, rising 22%
Acura RDX sales increase 10.8% in April, as introduction of all-new 2019 model approaches
"Even as we increase our sales of light trucks to record levels, we remain committed to delivering a balanced lineup of cars and light-truck offerings for our customers," said Henio Arcangeli Jr., senior vice president of the Automobile Division & general manager of Honda sales. "Our flexible manufacturing capabilities allow us to evolve our production mix in real-time to meet these continued shifts in consumer demand. Moreover, we recognize not all customers in the market want a truck or SUV, so growth opportunities still exist within the passenger car side of our business."
Honda Sales Highlights
Two fewer selling days and one less weekend in April 2018 vs. a year ago, impacted Honda car & truck sales like the rest of the auto industry. However, the brand’s core models performed strongly while Odyssey and Pilot were standouts for the month.
Odyssey posted a robust gain of 21.2% on sales of 8,464 units in April, further strengthening its 2018 sales leadership.
Pilot sales increased for the 8th straight month, rising 22% on sales of 11,891 units for the month.
Civic and CR-V sales topped 28,000 in April and Accord crested 21,000, to post strong results for Honda’s core models.
Model Notes
Odyssey is the #1 retail-selling minivan in America in 2018, leading with the lowest incentive spending as well.
The Honda Electrification Initiative just gained another player – the all-new 2018 Accord Hybrid, made in Marysville, Ohio, where the hybrid battery unit also is assembled.
Acura Sales Highlights
Looking forward to the upcoming launch of the all-new 2019 RDX, Acura displayed the still considerable strength of the current RDX as it made a solid gain in April. ILX and RLX also enjoyed sales increases for the month.
RDX gained 10.8 percent in April on sales of 4,201 units.
The Acura ILX and RLX sedans also gained sales ground, with ILX up 21.6% and RLX up 61.3% in April.
Model Notes
Acura is strengthening its performance story with A-Spec grades for all core models, including the just-launched 2.4-liter TLX A-Spec, and upcoming RDX and MDX A-Spec models launching this summer.
Since its 2007 debut, the Acura RDX has outsold every compact luxury SUV in America, and is the only one to top 50K sales in each of the past three years.
Holy shit. Literally every sedan is down on sales, across the board. Not sure if the Volvo s90 is any different.... it's such a low volume seller that selling 100 cars more makes it seem like it's doing great.
Holy shit. Literally every sedan is down on sales, across the board. Not sure if the Volvo s90 is any different.... it's such a low volume seller that selling 100 cars more makes it seem like it's doing great.
Yeah this is what I noticed too. EVERYONE is down. Luxury sedans seems to be shrinking.
SUV/Crossovers continue their growth with car sales continue to go down:
Interesting breakdown of the top 20 selling vehicles:
Would be nice if they can drop the price a bit so I can get one...
Recently Acura had a 30k incentive deal where people have been getting them in the ~130k range IIRC. It's gone now but maybe more will come out with these abysmal numbers.
I'm hoping used examples will dip below 100k in the near future
With over 585-million views on YouTube, Drake’s “God’s Plan” has become a major hit.
In the video, the artist gives away nearly $1 million USD in the form of cash, free groceries, shopping sprees, and cars including a pair of Acura TLX sedans. But Acura wasn’t originally part of the plan, according to the video’s production manager. In fact, the Honda Civic was the 1st choice, but Drake’s team opted for an Acura vehicle since the artist’s 1st car was a 2004 Acura TSX. You could say it was a sentimental pick for Drake, who often raps about his “Acura days” in his lyrics.
But the story on how the TLXs ended up in the video doesn’t end there. When production manager Liz Gonzalez contacted Esserman Acura in Doral, Florida to purchase 3 Acura ILXs, the dealership was skeptical at 1st. The Internet manager who 1st spoke to Gonzalez passed the inquiry over to the general manager, Francisco Diez-Rivas, who didn’t even know who Drake was.
From there, Diez-Rivas contacted the regional manager and found a Drake fan in Jason Bracken. Once Bracken confirmed the inquiry was legitimate, Gonzalez also had to put in some work by speaking with Acura execs in California, explaining the video’s premise. Not surprisingly, the Japanese automaker loved the idea of giving back to the community and agreed to be a part of the video within 48 hours. And instead of giving away an ILX, Acura decided to use the TLX instead.
Originally 3 Acura TLX sedans were supposed to be given away, but the production team later decided to just give away 2 TLXs and a Ford Transit van.
Acura's Ikeda recalls when marketing went adrift
May 26, 2018 @ 12:01 am
Vince Bond, Jr.
LOS ANGELES — Acura General Manager Jon Ikeda remembers an ad for the 2014 MDX bearing a simple message: "Stay True. And let the metal speak."
Looking back, there was irony in the tag line. Acura wasn't being true to itself in that ad.The dimly lit image had a bleak palette with a gray wall providing the backdrop for the crossover's black paint job. It was dark with a cerebral message. Ikeda says it didn't effectively capture what Acura stood for. Acura's marketing, he said, had lost its way, with a disconnect between the ad messaging and the product.In its trailblazing early years as the first Japanese luxury brand, Ikeda said, Acura's DNA was based on performance. The NSX, introduced a few years after Acura's 1986 launch, took the halo mantle and solidified the brand's performance cred. Even mainstream models such as the Legend and Integra made the most of Honda's finely tuned powertrains.But during Acura's quest to establish itself in a world that grew to include Lexus and Infiniti, the brand strayed. Ikeda says Acura went down a "wandering road" where it lost touch with its roots."We started to chase what was in, what the market was talking about more than staying true to ourselves," Ikeda said during a presentation at Automotive News' Marketing 360 event here this week.
Overly simplified to blame most of Acura's woes on marketing, as there have been numerous factors such as...
1. Aesthetically-challenged sheetmetal (the new grille shape/design really doesn't improve things).
2. Acura models having been dumbed-down when it came to driving excitement/handling prowess; the caveat to this is that much of this came from customer demand (even if it pissed-off the hard-core Acura enthusiast).
3. Honda models often being better in many ways (i.e. - the Civic currently having the more modern/better chassis than the ILX).
4. Increased competition - whether that comes from the Germans going down-market (CLA, GLA, X1, Q3, A3, etc. to the use of turbo-4 powerplants in midsize offerings like the A6 which brings the price of entry down), or even the domestics (MKC, MKX/Nautilus XT5, Envision, etc.) which will only increase w/ the XT4, XT6, Aviator, etc.
Like had stated before, as Acura became more dependent on the RDX and MDX for sales, the danger was that there wasn't nearly as much competition as there is now (much less in the near future); at the time, Lexus didn't have the NX nor the 3-row RX, and Lexus has the UX on the way and likely a RWD-based flagship CUV. In addition, Infiniti has been getting its CUV lineup in order.
The new RDX is a step in the right direction (the early reviews have been quite positive; altho the sheetmetal could be better and that center stack is just awful), but the road/competition is getting more fierce.
And it's not just from the luxury brands (not only the Germans, domestics and Japanese rivals, but Genesis having 3 CUVs in the pipeline), but from mainstreams brands which are not only offering most of the amenities that the lux brands are offering, but upping their game when it comes to interiors.
Can see certain buyers opting for a loaded CX-5 or a top trim of the new Santa Fe over a more basic spec FWD-based lux brand offering.
Lexus didn't have the NX nor the 3-row RX, and Lexus has the UX on the way and likely a RWD-based flagship CUV. In addition, Infiniti has been getting its CUV lineup in order.
how exactly is NX/RX or UX threat to RDX/MDX. Those who need super handling and even straight line performance. they will buy RDX/MDX.
RDX is much more spacious than NX and MDX more than RX.
Acura is so ahead in SUV implementation that its not even funny.
Super handling, top-notch tech, and useful capacity.
We observed that the hybrid MDX could go up to 35 mph or so on electric power alone, but we were most pleased by its ability to shoot from zero to 60 mph in 5.7 seconds in our testing, quicker than any other model tested here except for the Audi Q7.
Can see certain buyers opting for a loaded CX-5 or a top trim of the new Santa Fe over a more basic spec FWD-based lux brand offering
you are clinching straws now in desperation. Honda has much bigger dealer network. these people can easily get Honda CRV to save money.
^ Don't know why there's a need to post an image of the new RDX when pretty much everyone here knows what it looks like (while an improvement in certain areas, still kinda butt in others).
how exactly is NX/RX or UX threat to RDX/MDX.
B/c they compete in the same segment at around the same price-range.
Those who need super handling and even straight line performance. they will buy RDX/MDX.
The majority of buyers don't care about handling and performance; that's why Acura got rid of SH-AWD for a cheaper AWD system in the old RDX and customers in the Sun belt demanded that Acura offer the MDX in FWD.
RDX is much more spacious than NX and MDX more than RX.
The MDX is not really any more spacious than the RX-L and you really think the next NX will stay the same size? lol
Acura is so ahead in SUV implementation that its not even funny.
Must be why the RDX and MDX have been beating the NX and RX in sales - oh, wait...
And it's well known that the Acura CUVs are heavily cross-shopped w/ its Japanese competition.
Honda knows and admits that.
Acura acknowledges fellow Japanese luxury brands Lexus and Infiniti’s respective small CUVs, the NX and the QX50, likely will be cross-shopped heavily against the RDX.The NX, which debuted in the U.S. four years ago, tallied 18,835 sales through April, while the QX50, which also is redesigned for ’19, racked up 5,497 deliveries.Whereas there were just a few players in the segment when Acura launched the RDX in 2006, the group now is packed, and popular. Robinson notes one in four luxury vehicles sold in the U.S. today is a compact CUV.
you are clinching straws now in desperation. Honda has much bigger dealer network. these people can easily get Honda CRV to save money.
Right, b/c numerous auto reviews didn't say - why get the ILX when the Civic is superior...
Trucks Records Set as Core Products Deliver American Honda May Sales Gains
Jun 1, 2018
New May sales records for American Honda trucks (up 9.2%), Honda trucks (up 11.6%), Pilot (up 36%), and CR-V (up 11.6%)
Core Honda products Accord, Civic and Odyssey post strong retail sales despite industry trends
Pilot is biggest mover in Honda lineup, jumping 36.1% in May and 40.8% year to date
Acura sales remain strong with all-new 2019 RDX arriving today at dealers nationwide
"We’re pleased with the consistent results across our entire lineup of passenger cars and light trucks for both the Honda and Acura brands, and remain optimistic about the year ahead," said Henio Arcangeli Jr., senior vice president of the Automobile Division & general manager of Honda sales. "The all-new 2019 Acura RDX arrives in dealer showrooms today as the first in a new generation of Acura products. With sales of more than 50,000 units in each of the last three years, RDX remains one of the best-selling vehicles in the luxury crossover segment and we’re confident this all-new model will further build upon that success."
Honda Sales Highlights
Trucks and core products delivered major gains for Honda in May: Trucks set a new May record, Accord sales gained significant momentum, and strong performances from Civic, CR-V and Odyssey pushed all of these models to retail sales leadership in their respective segments. With Pilot and CR-V also adding record May sales, Honda brand gained a total of 4.3 percent for the month.
Accord sales continued to climb strongly since its launch last fall, posting more than 28,000 sales in May, up 29.3% versus last month.
With 34,349 sold in May, Civic gained 7.4% for the month.
Pilot sales jumped 36.1% in setting a new May record, its 9th consecutive gain, and CR-V sales climbed 11.6% on sales of 35,905, also a May record.
Model Notes
Pilot is one of the fastest growing midsize SUVs of 2018 with increased supply from a dedicated assembly line in Alabama. Sales are up 40.8% year-to-date.
Fit is #1 in retail sales in the subcompact segment and has done so with the lowest incentives.
Acura Sales Highlights
With strong sales of the outgoing RDX helping Acura maintain a steady sales pace in May, the all-new 2019 RDX arrives in dealers today – the first in a new generation of Acura products completely designed around the brand’s Precision Crafted Performance brand direction.
Acura light truck sales remained strong with RDX topping 4,700 in May and MDX passing the 4,000 mark.
ILX gained 28.3% on for the month and is up 16.2% year to date.
Model Notes
MDX has done something no other 3-row model in segment can match with six straight years of over 50,000 in sales.
As the only compact luxury SUV with sales topping 50K in each of the past three years, the second-gen RDX hands the baton to the better-in-every-way 2019 RDX, launching today.
03-14-2018, 09:46 AM
Drake
