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And speaks to Acura's biggest problem. Their primary buyers are buyers looking for a bargain. That is the problem. You cant be a true successful luxury car company when all you are seen as is a "good deal".
Haven't the critiques on this forum been saying that for the past 10 years?
Eventually the higher end consumer "graduates" out of the brand or the smart consumer realizes they can get virtually the same feature content in a Honda and revert.
Honda continually shoots themselves in the foot by putting LED's in the Honda touring models and a panoramic roof in the Pilot that isn't even available in the MDX.
I think the new infotainment screen in the new CRV looks way better than anything in the Acura line up, so why would you debut that tech in the CRV? And what's the difference between a 9 speed AT and a 10 speed.
Eventually the higher end consumer "graduates" out of the brand or the smart consumer realizes they can get virtually the same feature content in a Honda and revert.
Honda continually shoots themselves in the foot by putting LED's in the Honda touring models and a panoramic roof in the Pilot that isn't even available in the MDX.
Right. I find myself looking at a loaded Accord and then a TLX.....and say well the Accord offers quite a value proposition and in fact has great looks and basically same features (minus the SH-AWD and 9-speed). The newer Acuras in my work parking lot are just RDX/MDX.
Haven't the critiques on this forum been saying that for the past 10 years?
Eventually the higher end consumer "graduates" out of the brand or the smart consumer realizes they can get virtually the same feature content in a Honda and revert.
Honda continually shoots themselves in the foot by putting LED's in the Honda touring models and a panoramic roof in the Pilot that isn't even available in the MDX.
I think the new infotainment screen in the new CRV looks way better than anything in the Acura line up, so why would you debut that tech in the CRV? And what's the difference between a 9 speed AT and a 10 speed.
And what we have been saying all along. They for what ever reason simply cant find the way they want to go. They have been trying to find themselves for so long now they have shot themselves over and over. They want to compete but have ZERO idea how. With every model they try its usually 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards followed by 6 more years of talk with no show while they make excuses and press releases of how well they think they are doing followed by they know they have a problem and intend to fix it with..............................
Right. I find myself looking at a loaded Accord and then a TLX.....and say well the Accord offers quite a value proposition and in fact has great looks and basically same features (minus the SH-AWD and 9-speed). The newer Acuras in my work parking lot are just RDX/MDX.
The 9-speed is a feature only your chiropractor would want you to have. The Accord 6AT is silky smooth and refined compared to that confused ZF 9HP mess on the TLX. Clearly a win for the Accord.
I don't know what crazy deal Honda made with ZF to try and put the 9HP in as many models as possible, but it seems to detract from an otherwise great engine.
Just noticed that the refreshed MDX sold worse than the original
That's probably because of one less selling day, as the % says there's a slight increase?
Originally Posted by Costco
They should seriously just consider cutting their losses. Acura's been killed off in HK, introduced and discontinued in two years in Russia... they can just offer even more options on existing Hondas because that's basically what Acura has been boiled down to.
Dealers want more vehicles to fill out their lineup but Acura doesn't know how to or simply refuses to market their $50k+ offerings, and so they fall flat in the sales department.
Originally Posted by cu2wagon
Hmm. I hadn't been paying attention to what was in the Acura lineup after they killed off the TSX and TL... I didn't realize they basically has 4 vehicles. That really doesn't seem very sustainable. I wonder if they really would consider killing the marque and absorbing the lineup into Honda. Or just switching to a SUV-only marque like Dodge did with RAM, if that's where all the demand/profits are.
It'll be interesting to see how Toyota does with the post-Scion transition and if it would be a strong hint for Honda.
I think killing the Acura might make more sense if Acura was only selling sedans. But with the relatively successful RDX and MDX, I don't think they will want to kill off the brand entirely. One would argue, well, Honda can just make a CR-V V6 and the RDX would then be unnecessary. Toyota showed us that slapping a V6 on the RAV 4 wouldn't work out. To me, that means if Acura does kill the Acura brand, then there wouldn't be a V6 CR-V, or a CR-V with over 250hp. Would Honda want to give up 50000 of RDX sales a year? Probably not. It's not a Scion where the profit margin is probably not much.
Likewise, the starting price of the MDX is right between the Pilot Touring and Elite. And the MDX top trim is like $10k over the Pilot Elite. For just a dressed up Pilot, that's quite a bit more money. I doubt anyone would pay close to $60k for a Honda Pilot. And again, Acura sells 50000 copies a year. That's some volume right there.
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Haven't the critiques on this forum been saying that for the past 10 years?
Eventually the higher end consumer "graduates" out of the brand or the smart consumer realizes they can get virtually the same feature content in a Honda and revert.
Honda continually shoots themselves in the foot by putting LED's in the Honda touring models and a panoramic roof in the Pilot that isn't even available in the MDX.
I think the new infotainment screen in the new CRV looks way better than anything in the Acura line up, so why would you debut that tech in the CRV? And what's the difference between a 9 speed AT and a 10 speed.
The answer is simple. Acura knows very well that its Acura models are in need of update. Just because the Acura models are not doing well, it doesn't mean they will downgrade their Honda products to make the Acura products look better. They sort of did that before and it didn't go well at all.
The mainstream non-luxury market is moving fast. Honda can't afford to dumb down its core models just to make Acura look better. This is why recent Honda models are highly praised and are selling well.
As mentioned above, Honda knows that Acura needs help. This is where the Precision Concept and Precision cockpit comes in. It shows that they know the exterior of existing Acura models is bland, and that its interior is not high tech enough. The key now is to bring these new cars out asap and you hope that they will have the powertrain, the design, and the interior to match the talk.
So they'll be relegated to an SUV brand? At least there's a lot more distinction between a CR-V and an RDX... otherwise they'd go the way of GMC.
They sell like what, 500 RLXs a month at the most? And the customer satisfaction surveys aren't very good. They already killed off the TL and TSX and replaced it with one model, and that wasn't enough to bridge the sales lacking in comparison to the competition. At least they're saving on development costs? Their brand has struggled with upward mobility in the luxury market, so they're stuck until they make a lot of changes.
They now have the NSX as a flagship to increase brand prestige, but what effect that has had on sales, I don't know.
So they'll be relegated to an SUV brand? At least there's a lot more distinction between a CR-V and an RDX... otherwise they'd go the way of GMC.
They sell like what, 500 RLXs a month at the most? And the customer satisfaction surveys aren't very good. They already killed off the TL and TSX and replaced it with one model, and that wasn't enough to bridge the sales lacking in comparison to the competition. At least they're saving on development costs? Their brand has struggled with upward mobility in the luxury market, so they're stuck until they make a lot of changes.
They now have the NSX as a flagship to increase brand prestige, but what effect that has had on sales, I don't know.
It means they need to work on making better sedans, and broaden into other areas such as coupes.
You know with the new CR-V, I'm not sure if there's really much distinction between the RDX and the CRV, other than the V6. The CR-V seems to offer a lot of features - some of them not even available on the RDX.
AUTOMOTIVE NEWS: What's the outlook for the MDX hybrid? JIM MORINO: It sounds like the pricing is going to be very advantageous. The performance specifications that will come out and the fuel mileage that they're showing it will have, that should be a good vehicle for us. We're not going to double the amount of sales we have on MDX and gas prices will start to increase again but as they start to go up, hopefully we'll be ahead of the market. Send us a LetterHave an opinion about this story? Click here to submit a Letter to the Editor, and we may publish it in print.
U.S. Acura dealers are looking forward to having the Takata airbag crisis behind them in 2017.
Like their Honda brethren, Acura dealers last year were preoccupied with resolving Takata problems for customers, and the ripple effects drove down profits nationwide.
Without the airbag problems this year, dealers hope for a turnaround in profitability and a renewed focus by their new, used and service departments on all things non-Takata related, according to Jim Morino, chairman of Acura's dealer advisory board and owner of Acura of Lynnwood, just north of Seattle.
But concerns remain: Acura General Manager Jon Ikeda has pinned the brand's turnaround largely on revamping its sedan lineup as consumers increasingly move toward light trucks. And reliability -- a longtime Acura calling card -- will need to remain strong, particularly as new-car profits dwindle and prices and lease numbers increase, putting more pressure on certified used-vehicle and service departments to boost earnings.
Morino, 61, spoke with Staff Reporter David Undercoffler about putting the Takata crisis in the rearview mirror and facing the road ahead.
Q: How was 2016 for Acura?
A: It was a tough year. Sedan sales are way off for everybody, not just for Acura, so that definitely affected us. But the midmodel change for the MDX was very well received and is selling very, very well and the RDX is selling very, very well. So that helped us fill some gaps with that.
And of course the Takata airbag situation caused havoc in all of our lives. But we worked through it. I think we're in pretty good shape now. We've pretty much got all of the units that were affected taken care of by the recall. Acura told us at the beginning of the year that we wouldn't see airbags until late in the year and we saw them a lot sooner than we thought we would see them, so that's been a nice surprise.
Have all affected Acuras been fixed?
There's a few left with Acura Financial Services at auction and so forth that still need to be taken care of. But Acura's goal was to take care of the clients 1st and those were pretty well taken care of.
Since Jon Ikeda took over at Acura in 2015, he has made it clear he wants to pin the brand's turnaround on sedans. Is this a hard time for a company to push into sedans?
We know that what is coming is more aggressive for sedans. They're trying to do some things designwise. Was it smart? I don't know. Everybody's in the same boat: Audi, Mercedes, Lexus were relying upon sedans to do better than they did. Nobody's got a crystal ball. It's hard to say if that's the right or wrong move; it's still the direction that Jon wants us in, that's going back to "precision crafted performance." You can't have performance without some kind of performance sedan.
They started with the NSX [in 2016] and I think that Jon's idea for the future is that we get more performance for the rest of our line over the next four and that's more aggressive for both sedans and sport-utilities. You've got to draw the line in the sand somewhere and start somewhere. Unfortunately it was [2016] but they've got to start doing it and not let it stop.
Does it make sense? Do you like the sedan-focused strategy through the end of the decade?
We've kind of floundered as a brand as to what our direction is. I think Jon and Mr. Mikoshiba (Toshiaki Mikoshiba, CEO of American Honda Motor Co.) taking over [in 2016] and giving us that "precision crafted performance" as a tag line to get ourselves started, I think it's the right direction and it's what the brand needs to identify itself and say who it's going to be and not change every three years who we are.
Almost everybody on the [National Dealer Advisory Board] has probably been with [Acura] since almost inception. We've been through highs; we've been through lows. But there's been inconsistency in who we are. We've all been looking for what that is and hopefully they've drawn a line in the sand and said this is what it's going to be and here we go.
Is there tension over executives in Japan asking Acura to do something in the U.S. but then not giving the brand adequate resources or people or products?
I think from a dealer standpoint, looking outside in, I think that that's kind of how we've felt; it's been that way in the past. I think Mr. Mikoshiba, Mr. Mendel (John Mendel, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co.) and Mr. Ikeda were in Japan for the business meeting and they have the full confidence of the Honda board to support this brand. So that was a good thing for us to hear. You always question what the commitment is but they're fully committed to the brand and going forward and they've told us that they will have the resources to do what they need to do to make this brand successful.
How has the NSX affected dealers?
Again, they kept delaying it, but again we appreciate and hate the delays. We hate the delays because we have people waiting for it but we appreciate the delays because we don't want to have them introduce an automobile that's going to have a bunch of problems. And in talking with clients and even looking at what the press is saying about the car, I mean it's a phenomenal automobile. So as time goes on we just need to get more of them out there. Because again some of the preconception is it's similar to what the old NSX was but this is nowhere near what the old NSX was.
Are there any problems getting the vehicles dealers need when they need them?
Well they're at capacity for MDX and of course MDX being our hottest-selling model, they're going to be moving capacity to use both Alabama and Ohio so that's definitely going to help with supply.
Are there any other problems with supply?
MDX and RDX can be tight. TLX and ILX, the inventories are building. We're formulating some plans to try and sell more of those vehicles.
How has profitability been for Acura dealers?
It's not a secret: Profitability for Acura nationally overall is down. The dealers are still profitable. But we're down from where we were in 2015 and that is definitely a concern for dealers; total profitability because that's what keeps us in business and gives us the ability to take care of clients and retain employees.
Acura feels that that's a big concern of theirs also. But again with the Takata airbag issue, it caused used-car departments to be down, it caused service departments to be down, it was a big drain on again the manufacturer and the dealers.
What Acura dealers' other concerns?
Reliability from the dealer standpoint. With the softening of the sedan market and the overall profitability of dealerships being down, a concern is the 1 thing we maintain is the highest quality in the industry to keep people coming back from Acura.
I would also have to say we've had some very candid conversations about aggressiveness of advertising and awareness for Acura. But I think that they are investing the assets and I think they're again changing that message so that it's more aggressive than it has been in the past.
It's taken some time and pushing but it's advertising and saying what deals are out there. Where it's always been a product-driven advertising and awareness, now they're doing more call to action to get people in to the dealership.
What's the outlook on leasing for Acura?
Leasing is going to be a huge part of our marketing tools. With the price of vehicles going up, it's going to make it more advantageous for a client to get into a vehicle, lease it and then it's going to keep them turning. Because otherwise we're looking at five- to six-year financing to get a payment to where a three-year lease will be. So because of the price of vehicle and inevitably one of these days interest rates are going to start creeping up, leasing is going to be a lot more advantageous. For Acura over the past year as a whole, it's increased. Here at my store, we've gone from 25 to 26 percent to pushing 40 percent. On the East Coast it's just astronomical. It's just a huge number what they're leasing.
But leasing is here. It's going to be the big piece.
How do rising interest rates affect dealers' floorplanning approach?
Profitability is a key for all of this and flooring is a huge piece of an automobile dealership's expenses. And as interest rates rise, that just increases that expense. So again that's the key to making sure we've got the marketing to sell the products we have, to make sure we've got the products. The right product and selling the right amount takes care of a lot of ills. So that's one of the biggest things they can do for profitability is make sure they've got the right products at the right time. And then when we don't, again we've got to market our way out of it, and that's what we're doing now with sedans, as every manufacturer right now is.
Now that the Takata problem has largely been resolved for Acura vehicles, what's the outlook for service in 2017?
Service and parts have always been a strong percentage of our business. They're looking at marketing tools. Distribution has become more efficient and daily orders have really helped dealers. The longevity of an Acura product is in the hundreds of thousands of miles so we're working at getting those people, not only the people who have bought the first time but in that secondary market, coming back.
So service is -- at least for us and looking at numbers for the nation -- we were down a little bit in net profit from where we were last year but total sales were up. That Takata airbag issue, it really took a bite just to take care of all those clients. So sales were up but net profit was down because it was just more expense to the dealers to take care of those clients during that process. But the dealers and Acura were very committed to making sure that that client was taken care of well.
What do you hope to accomplish as dealer council chairman?
Our main goal over this year is to make sure that HMC is committed to this brand in the United States and making them aware of the concern of the profitability of the dealer body in North America. So I think Mr. Mikoshiba knows that and I think he has the commitment from the board that this is a viable brand and we're here forever so the long-term goal of dealer profitability is important. We had some very candid conversations about that and he's aware of that and he's going to do everything to improve the profitability of dealers in North America.
It's been a tough period here during this process, but I think we're on the right track. I think we've got some great things coming in the future and some things to be very optimistic about the brand. I look forward to the next 10 years.
Despite a dip in Acura sales in 2016, a plateauing industry and only mild upgrades to a few of its sedans, Acura is forecasting a sales increase for 2017.
The news came during the brand's make meeting, according to several dealers who attended.
"The concern was they gave a goal number and the guys go, "Well we know that's past where we were this year, the industry's going to be flat, how are we going to do that?'"Jim Morino, chairman of Acura's dealer advisory board, told Automotive News.
Despite the tall order, the news was greeted with optimism by dealers.
"They came up with some good plans," added Morino, who owns Acura of Lynnwood, just north of Seattle. But those plans are possible only if Acura backs them up appropriately with marketing and incentives, something that was lacking in 2016. Acura will share details of its plans with dealers during meetings in February.
Acura sold 161,360 vehicles in 2016, down 8.9 percent from 2015. Part of the problem was a marketing effort that didn't kick into high gear until the 2nd half of the year, Morino said.
While that marketing effort now has better momentum, more can be done.
For example, during Friday's make meeting, one dealer raised the point that both Acura and Lexus have cars competing in the GT Daytona class at this weekend's Rolex 24 at Daytona endurance race. Yet only Lexus sent its dealers marketing material to tie in the brand's racing efforts to the cars it sells on a dealer's lot.
"We just found out today that Acura is in Daytona," Morino said.
With such a costly NSX supercar finally returning from Acura, a lack of marketing tie-in helping dealers align their products with the NSX halo car was a surprise, and one which Acura executives conceded was their oversight.You can reach David Undercoffler at undercoffler@crain.com -- Follow David on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/autonews_west
We've kind of floundered as a brand as to what our direction is. I think Jon and Mr. Mikoshiba taking over [in 2016] and giving us that "precision crafted performance" as a tag line to get ourselves started, I think it's the right direction and it's what the brand needs to identify itself and say who it's going to be and not change every three years who we are.
There isn't any marketing of this fucking brand at all, I watched some of the Rolex 24 at Daytona yesterday, I shockingly found out that a couple of NSX GT3s were actually in the race and they were very competitive. Why we heard nothing about this before the fucking race? Unbelievable.
Yea, one of their cars almost won the race until the final hour but lost the nose and hood. The other one finished what...5th? Pretty good for a debut race.
The answer is simple. Acura knows very well that its Acura models are in need of update. Just because the Acura models are not doing well, it doesn't mean they will downgrade their Honda products to make the Acura products look better. They sort of did that before and it didn't go well at all.
Where did I say Honda should dumb down their products? I didn't. My point was that Acura has had plenty of time to upgrade and better differentiate their line-up but has chosen not to (yet).
Exhibit A: It's 2017 and Acura still doesn't offer a panoramic roof in their SUV's. It's not that hard.
Funny. My 30k Hyundai has a pano roof... And I bought it in 2011
Q.E.D. A pano roof is not a luxury feature, and since Acura is clearly a luxury car, it would not have.
See also, RWD, V8, Wagons, Manual Transmissions, etc... All things that HondAcura has put significant thought into keeping out of their lineup to maintain their exclusive and luxury prestige. Leave those dog and pony tricks to the economy car manufacturers.
Where did I say Honda should dumb down their products? I didn't. My point was that Acura has had plenty of time to upgrade and better differentiate their line-up but has chosen not to (yet).
Exhibit A: It's 2017 and Acura still doesn't offer a panoramic roof in their SUV's. It's not that hard.
I probably misunderstood your point man when you said,
"Honda continually shoots themselves in the foot by putting LED's in the Honda touring models and a panoramic roof in the Pilot that isn't even available in the MDX.
I think the new infotainment screen in the new CRV looks way better than anything in the Acura line up, so why would you debut that tech in the CRV?"
When I read that, it sounded like you were suggesting Honda should introduce those features in Acura models first instead of Honda models.
Isn't that exactly what he is saying? Why is the "lower" brand getting stuff before the "upper" brand? Why does the "upper" brand not have some of this stuff at all?
At first glance, it sounded like he was suggesting Honda should keep the Honda models less well equipped. As such, I said that Honda core models gotta be competitive, even if it means the Acura models may look bad.
From his latest post, he clarified that he was actually saying Acura should also get those features beforehand, so that Acura wouldn't be in its current situation.
American Honda Continues Record Sales Pace in January
Feb 1, 2017 - TORRANCE, Calif.
American Honda sets new January records for total vehicle and total truck sales
Honda Division also sets new January benchmark for total vehicle sales
Honda trucks jump 30.2 percent for best-ever January
Honda CR-V smashes previous January record as it gains 52 percent for month
Acura trucks remain strong with RDX topping last year
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported total January sales of 106,380 Honda and Acura vehicles, an increase of 5.9 percent over January 2016 and a new record for the month. Total Honda Division sales as well as Honda truck sales also set new January records, with total Division sales rising 7.7 percent on sales of 97,178 and trucks up 30.2 percent on sales of 51,337 units. Acura Division sales totaled 9,202 vehicles in January, a decrease of 10.2 percent.
Honda
After posting a 3rd consecutive sales record in 2016, the Honda Division started 2017 with yet more monthly records, gaining 7.7 percent as cars and trucks continued to sell strongly. CR-V and HR-V led the way in January, pushing Honda trucks to another new record for the month.
Honda Division sets new January mark, rising 7.7 percent on sales of 97,178 units.
Honda trucks also set a new January record, jumping 30.2 percent on sales of 51,337.
CR-V smashed its previous January best, gaining 52.5 percent on sales of 29,287 vehicles.
HR-V sales also gained sharply, rising to 5,689 in January for a gain of 36.2 percent versus last year.
Accord and Fit sales remained strong in January.
"Our conservative approach to growth was criticized when the industry was growing faster but it is clearly paying dividends now as industry sales are flattening," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division. "A steady cadence of products and disciplined sales tactics is the right approach for customers and dealers."
Acura
Acura brand sales remained fairly steady in January, with Acura light trucks demonstrating continued strength as RDX gained ground and MDX maintained a solid pace, even before dual sourcing of Acura's three-row luxury SUV begins this spring in Ohio, promising increased supply.
RDX sales were up 3.2 percent for the month, with 3,202 vehicles sold in January.
NSX notched sales of 50 units for the month.
"In a month marked by major storms across the country, Acura maintained a steady pace with trucks leading the way," said Jon Ikeda, vice president and general manager of the Acura division. "And a strong showing of the Acura NSX GT3 in its debut at Daytona last weekend just adds to the momentum building around the Acura brand."
Every Acura product is down in sales, year over year, including the MDX. The only one that pulled ahead was the RDX, marginally.
how is Acura putting a positive spin on that? Total BS.
QFT
Overall sales for Jan 2017 vs Jan 2016 are down 10.2% (down 10.71% if you exclude NSX since it didn't exist in Jan 2016), yet Acura says "sales remained fairly steady."
MDX sales are down 8.4% yet Acura says "light trucks demonstrating continued strength."
Every Acura product is down in sales, year over year, including the MDX. The only one that pulled ahead was the RDX, marginally.
how is Acura putting a positive spin on that? Total BS.
LOL true. I was looking at those neg percentages and shaking my head. Welp that is corporate speak for ya. No way Honda PR will release anything negative....so seems like typical corporate PR piece....behind the closed doors of the Acura/Honda boardroom may be a very difference scene....
Originally Posted by AZuser
ILX: 693 RLX: 80
TLX: 1,903 . . . . lowest monthly sales # . . . . ever. Let's see if MMC can fix decline.
Jan 2016 vs Jan 2017 (U.S.)
Acura TLX = 2,239 --> 1,903 (-15.01%)
Audi A4 = 1,474 --> 1,959 (+32.90%)
BMW 3 series = 3,287 --> 4,032 (+22.67%)
BMW 4 series = 1,832 --> 1,944 (+6.11%)
Buick LaCrosse = 4,057 --> 1,307 (-67.78%)
Cadillac ATS = 1,067 --> 974 (-8.72%)
Cadillac CTS = 1,013 --> 691 (-31.79%)
Infiniti Q50 = 2,914 --> 3,206 (+10.02%)
Infiniti Q60 = 132 --> 732 (+454.55%)
Lexus IS = 2,178 --> 1,423 (-34.66%)
Lexus ES = 3,400 --> 2,171 (-36.15%)
Mercedes C Class = 6,236 --> 5,079 (-18.55%)
Nissan Maxima = 4,415 --> 3,738 (-15.33%)
In the past year or so luxury car sales in general have generally been trending down throughout the industry and with SUV/CUV sales climbing and with a very rough look over these numbers it seems overall the 2016 numbers are higher than 2017....and seems like overall luxury cars are not selling well and continue on a decline as it had been for the past couple years.
Now how hard does this industry-wide trend hit specific brands is interesting to note: Acura, Buick, Cadillac, Lexus, Mercedes all taking hits.
I'd take that Mercedes any day over the MMC. And I hate Mercedes lol
The lines just flow, looks chiseled. The MMC looks like parts were stretched to fit the new pentagon. But the pentagon was never trimmed to fit!
Originally Posted by Saintor ; 01-24-2017, 10:19 PM
I sat in a C300 *YESTERDAY* at Montreal Auto Show , no f*cking way*.
01-23-2017, 04:44 PM
AutoNew
3
RLX: 80
