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Transaction prices of Genesis and TLX not that far away. they are in the same class.
Sorry - but despite your hallucinations, Hyundai sells not only a good amount of the Genesis 3.8 with the HTRAC in higher trim levels, but the 5.0 V8 Genesis as well (which is in another whole ballpark price-wise from the TLX).
The rest of your post is obfuscation and misdirection as usual.
The Genesis has been in comparison tests with the likes of the Lexus GS and Cadillac CTS.
Car & Driver has the Genesis ranked in the list of mid-size/segment luxury sedans w/ the aforementioned GS and CTS, along w/ the E Class, 5 Series, etc. (where it places 7th, 2 spots ahead of the RLX which places 9th). (Wonder what resident troll's excuse is going to be for the RLX losing out to the Genesis?)
The TLX is ranked in the list w/ the C Class, 3 Series, etc. (where it places 10th), where it only beats out its most direct competitor, the aged Buick Regal; the next Regal (which isn't far off) should relegate the TLX to the last spot.
comparision test only relevant for performance vehicles. for generic vehicles it does not mean much. that's why BMW practically worthless brand on used car lots and give deep discounts on new cars.
TLX even with 290bhp is 0-130mph in 23 seconds on crappy tires. put 310bhp and it will surpass most of competition. its already the quietest car comparable to much heavier and bigger cars despite not having the noise reducing rims of RLX.
only 6500mile on odometer. this asking price. 2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 White
2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 White - $37999 (FINE SELECTION of Hyundai Genesis)
only 2100 mile. 2015 Hyundai Genesis 3.8
2015 Hyundai Genesis 3.8 - $35000 (fremont / union city / newark)
SSFTSX (hey what's your name by the way?), is there a chance that Honda decides to cancel the RLX in the future and have the TLX become the flagship or some other new sedan?
Honda is going to produce electric Clarity.
There is greater chance that Acura may get Tesla competitor.
If Acura flagship can barely compete with Hyundai Equus, what makes you think Acura can compete with Tesla?
Fixed for accuracy.
In 1-2 months, Tesla Model S sells more than what Acura RLX sells in an entire year.
In 2 months, the Tesla Model 3 got more sales reservations than what Acura brand sells in an entire year.
Originally Posted by AZuser
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
RLX is actually doing pretty good. It is very similar sales figure as Equus. and only few hundred less than Lexus LS and Audi A8. on overall schemes of things RLX is not money loser.
If Honda can't compete with Prius, what makes you think Acura can compete with Tesla?
Prius is cheap rental like Camry. Honda is targeting higher end. Just look at 212bhp Accord Hybrid and 325bhp MDX. I am sure they will built all electric vehicles in 3 to 4 years. Honda is not depended on subsidies like Tesla.
CRZ is a piece of crap that no one buys. What's your point? That it sucks and no one wants it? Good point!
CRZ also has shit fuel economy for a hybrid, and shit performance for a sporty car. Simply put, it isn't good at anything at all. And consumers know this. And that's why no one buys them, save for hipsters and dummies.
With two fewer selling days this May versus a year ago, American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported May sales of 147,108 units, a year-over-year decline of 4.8 percent. However, year-to-date American Honda sales of 653,640 units are up 5.7 percent versus year-ago results as the company remains on track for a second straight year of record-setting sales.
Honda
With balanced demand for Honda cars and light trucks, the Honda brand maintained its lead over last year's all-time record results. Year-to-date Honda brand sales are up 7.1 percent over 2015 results to 585,998 Honda cars and light trucks. May sales were down 2.9 percent to 133,547 units following a five-month stretch of year-over-year gains dating back to December 2015.
The 10th-generation Civic continues to lead the compact segment with its seventh straight month of year-over-year sales gains, up 2.7 percent to 35,396 in May.
HR-V posted particularly strong May sales of 7,392 units, a 15.8 percent gain over last year as consumer awareness and supplies of the popular subcompact crossover continue to strengthen.
On a daily selling rate basis, Honda saw positive results, with total sales up 5.2 percent and positive gains for Civic, up 11.2 percent; Accord up 6.9 percent; HR-V, up 25.5 percent; Odyssey, up 3.1 percent; and Pilot, up 3.6 percent.
"We continue to see solid demand for Honda cars and light trucks, and all indicators point to a strong summer selling season for Honda," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division. "With our balanced lineup and an all-new Ridgeline pickup and restyled and reengineered 2017 Accord Hybrid launching this summer, we remain bullish on our prospects for a third consecutive yearly sales record for the Honda brand."
Acura
Coming off a successful sell-down of the outgoing 2016 RDX SUV and facing regional shortfalls in inventories of the MDX seven-passenger SUV, Acura posted a 20.4 percent decline in May results on sales of 13,561 Acura cars and SUVs.
"Inventory issues and a challenging market for luxury sedan sales took the wind out of our sails in May, but with the excitement of the NSX now coming to market and the restyled and significantly refreshed 2017 MDX arriving later this month we look to continue our growth this summer," said Jon Ikeda, vice president and general manager of the Acura division.
How about a comparison with other automakers' sales for last month? The absolute numbers are dismal. RLX Sport Hybrid continues slow, but steady sales given no marketing and very limited build, probably only 250 for this MY, just like 2014.
Cadillac sales decreased 16.03 percent to 12,099 units:
Cadillac ATS sales decreased 30.73 percent to 1,630 units
Cadillac CT6 sales totaled 697 units in its second full month of sales
Cadillac CTS sales decreased 39.62 percent to 1,082 units
Cadillac ELR sales decreased 61.21 percent to 45 units
Cadillac Escalade sales increased 14.78 percent to 1,856 units and Cadillac Escalade ESV sales increased 4.12 percent to 1,087 units
Cadillac SRX sales decreased 69.29 percent to 1,774 units as its replacement — the 2017 Cadillac XT5 — began arriving to dealers in great quantities
Cadillac XT5 sales totaled 2,719 units
Cadillac XTS sales decreased 29.26 percent to 1,209 units
Buick sales decreased 22.12 percent to 15,625 units:
Buick Cascada sales totaled 829 units during its third full month on the market
Buick Enclave sales decreased 43.18 percent to 3,200 units
Buick Encore sales increased 20.78 percent to 6,522 units, marking 29 consecutive months of retail sales growth
Buick Envision sales totaled 89 units as the first models began arriving at dealers
Buick LaCrosse sales decreased 32.90 percent to 1,687 units. The all-new, 2017 Buick LaCrosse will launch later this year.
Buick Regal sales decreased 32.9 percent to 1,228 units
Buick Verano sales decreased 36.23 percent to 2,070 units
How about a comparison with other automakers' sales for last month? The absolute numbers are dismal. RLX Sport Hybrid continues slow, but steady sales given no marketing and very limited build, probably only 250 for this MY, just like 2014.
So in short, Buick is selling more than Acura and not even in the same league as the Germans and Lexus in sales number.
i am surprised the sales # gap has widen that much between Audi and Acura
How about a comparison with other automakers' sales for last month? The absolute numbers are dismal. RLX Sport Hybrid continues slow, but steady sales given no marketing and very limited build, probably only 250 for this MY, just like 2014.
Thanks, guys. I'm traveling and don't have that data close to hand. It appears that most automakers had a slow month, some worse percentage wise than others. Acura did worse than others and they essentially blamed inability to keep the MDX in stock. Umm, yeah.
So in short, Buick is selling more than Acura and not even in the same league as the Germans and Lexus in sales number.
i am surprised the sales # gap has widen that much between Audi and Acura
how many vehicles and engines Audi is selling and how many Acura?
Q3/Q5/Q7. A3/A4/A6/A7/A8. on top of that coupe/convertible and performance models. it is just devaluing the brand. Audi in every corner.
pretty sure Audi shares engines with VW... sooo I don't think they're all that concerned about how many engines they have... since combined, they destroy Honda/acura in sales. But thanks. Try again.
Audi in every corner.. because everyone wants them. and no one wants poor old Acura. Honda should just give Acura the "Old Yeller" treatment, behind the barn house...
how many vehicles and engines Audi is selling and how many Acura?
Q3/Q5/Q7. A3/A4/A6/A7/A8. on top of that coupe/convertible and performance models. it is just devaluing the brand. Audi in every corner.
and what's your point?
whose fault is it that Acura is not competing in every segment? You are blaming others for Acura not offering certain models or engines?
Do you blame others for making too much $$ for your inability to make money?
You know what is not devaluing the brand? the day that Acura does not exist anymore because apparently selling too many cars is bad for business.
So in short, Buick is selling more than Acura and not even in the same league as the Germans and Lexus in sales number.
i am surprised the sales # gap has widen that much between Audi and Acura
Hmm, with so many different models to choose from, I thought otherwise - that Audi should really be closer to BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus. Beating Acura that only has essentially 5 models doesn't mean much...lol...
When you do the math, you'd find that the TT, R8, A5, A7, A8, Allroad, Q3 combine to 5533 units for May. That means the other models, namely the A3, A4, A6, Q5, Q7, have a total of 13195 units. That figure is similar to Acura's 13600 units. Considering that pretty much all of those core Audi models have performance trims (S3, S4, S6, RS7, S8, RSQ5), I'd have thought the figure should be noticeably higher than Acura....
This isn't blaming Audi for making more models. But it's just a realistic look of the facts. For sure, Acura needs to broaden its model line up.
Originally Posted by neuronbob
Thanks, guys. I'm traveling and don't have that data close to hand. It appears that most automakers had a slow month, some worse percentage wise than others. Acura did worse than others and they essentially blamed inability to keep the MDX in stock. Umm, yeah.
My understanding is that the Alabama plant is already at capacity. Using May data, Honda sold 12212 Pilots, 11248 Odyssey, 0 Ridgeline, and 4208 MDX's. That translate to 332016 units per year, assuming the sales rate is constant. As of 2011, the capacity of the Alabama plant is 340,000 (raised from 300,000).
Since the Ridgeline will go on sale this month, it means that product was started a while ago. My guess is that Honda had to reduce production of certain models in order to have capacity to make Ridgelines.
And did I mention the new Odyssey is coming out soon?
Hmm, with so many different models to choose from, I thought otherwise - that Audi should really be closer to BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus. Beating Acura that only has essentially 5 models doesn't mean much...lol...
When you do the math, you'd find that the TT, R8, A5, A7, A8, Allroad, Q3 combine to 5533 units for May. That means the other models, namely the A3, A4, A6, Q5, Q7, have a total of 13195 units. That figure is similar to Acura's 13600 units. Considering that pretty much all of those core Audi models have performance trims (S3, S4, S6, RS7, S8, RSQ5), I'd have thought the figure should be noticeably higher than Acura....
This isn't blaming Audi for making more models. But it's just a realistic look of the facts. For sure, Acura needs to broaden its model line up.
My understanding is that the Alabama plant is already at capacity. Using May data, Honda sold 12212 Pilots, 11248 Odyssey, 0 Ridgeline, and 4208 MDX's. That translate to 332016 units per year, assuming the sales rate is constant. As of 2011, the capacity of the Alabama plant is 340,000 (raised from 300,000).
Since the Ridgeline will go on sale this month, it means that product was started a while ago. My guess is that Honda had to reduce production of certain models in order to have capacity to make Ridgelines.
And did I mention the new Odyssey is coming out soon?
The fact is Audi has widen the gap in total sales number. Whether you are selling with 5 models (Acura) or 100000 models like BMW, that is the path, the strategy to achieve that goal.
And the fact that Audi is actually competing with the top 3 sellers head to head and still managed to gain market shares in the upper ultra competitive market and sell more than Acura is an achievement itself.
While they are all in the same Luxury segment but in reality, Acura is not really competing with the Germans as it's target/market is the buyers who want value, reliability and bang for your buck (Honda +)
I dont have the global audi sales # but i know as least in China, it has been the #1 German brand in perception and everything else for decades.
In the US... well i like their cars but their incentive/leasing programs just dont make sense compare to the other 2. Example, I love the S6 and i really wanted 1 but the payment is similar to an M5... or the new 4 cylinder A4 is very nice but it has similar payments as a 90% loaded 340/435.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 06-02-2016 at 01:07 PM.
Ladies and gentlemen, let’s first look at Audi’s major sales regions:
In the United States, the investment in our brand and our strategy of sustainable growth are now paying off: We grew twice as fast as the market in 2015. Our unit sales in the US increased by 11 percent to exactly 202,202 automobiles in 2015. For the first time, we passed the mark of 200,000 deliveries. We have doubled our unit sales in the United States within five years. The main growth drivers in that market are the Audi Q5, the Audi Q3 and the Audi A3. The A3 Sedan established itself right from the start as the most popular compact sedan in the US premium market.
In Europe, we confirmed our position as the premium-market leader. We achieved growth of nearly 5 percent to nearly 800,000 cars. We performed well in Germany, our domestic market, where we are also the number one. In France, we grew by a good 5 percent. In Italy and Spain, we actually achieved double-digit growth. With 166,000 cars delivered, Audi UK made a significant contribution to our sales growth in Europe. Every fifth Audi in Europe goes to the United Kingdom. Our sales in this region were boosted above all by the models at the top of the range: The Audi A6 achieved an increase of 10 percent to nearly 100,000 units sold. This makes the A6 the number one in its segment. And we delivered more than 27,000 Audi Q7 SUVs in Europe last year. So the new model has made an excellent start.
In addition to Europe, we were the undisputed number one in the premium segment also in China in 2015. With more than 570,000 automobiles delivered, we continue to achieve very high sales there. With its volatility, 2015 was certainly a special year for the Chinese economy. People were unsettled there by a series of equity-price fluctuations on the stock markets and uncertainty in the real-estate market. And the overall car market contracted in several months. But the market stabilized again significantly towards the end of the year. As the market leader, we decided to consolidate in 2015. This meant continuing our focus on customer satisfaction and profitability. Our Chinese product portfolio is about to go through a broad-based generation change. By this summer, we will replace models that make up 60 percent of our unit sales in that market. To sum up: China is and will continue to be a very solid growth market in the long term – with great potential for the Audi brand.
The fact is Audi has widen the gap in total sales number. Whether you are selling with 5 models (Acura) or 100000 models like BMW, that is the path, the strategy to achieve that goal.
And the fact that Audi is actually competing with the top 3 sellers head to head and still managed to gain market shares in the upper ultra competitive market and sell more than Acura is an achievement itself.
While they are all in the same Luxury segment but in reality, Acura is not really competing with the Germans as it's target/market is the buyers who want value, reliability and bang for your buck (Honda +)
I dont have the global audi sales # but i know as least in China, it has been the #1 German brand in perception and everything else for decades.
In the US... well i like their cars but their incentive/leasing programs just dont make sense compare to the other 2. Example, I love the S6 and i really wanted 1 but the payment is similar to an M5... or the new 4 cylinder A4 is very nice but it has similar payments as a 90% loaded 340/435.
My point is that, when you start selling more models, then naturally, your total sales would increase. In this case, the number of Audi models are closer to BMW than Acura. The only segments Audi isn't competiting with BMW are electric cars and X4, X6, and the GT's.
Acura is missing key models to compete with the likes of A5, A7, A8, TT, and Q3.
This isn't a dig against Audi. I recognize that it makes some attractive cars with nice designs. It's more about pointing out the obvious facts - that Audi offers way more models than Acura, and consequently, should be able to sell more vehicles. If anything, to me, it's Acura's fault for not offering more models.
In China, people there really like the big 3 German brands. It's interesting to know Audi is the most popular. I'd have thought Mercedes Benz is the #1 brand there. Japanese car makers can't compete. I have relatives in China that told me Japanese vehicles aren't popular because of how Japan invaded Japan decades ago.....
My point is that, when you start selling more models, then naturally, your total sales would increase. In this case, the number of Audi models are closer to BMW than Acura. The only segments Audi isn't competiting with BMW are electric cars and X4, X6, and the GT's.
Acura is missing key models to compete with the likes of A5, A7, A8, TT, and Q3.
This isn't a dig against Audi. I recognize that it makes some attractive cars with nice designs. It's more about pointing out the obvious facts - that Audi offers way more models than Acura, and consequently, should be able to sell more vehicles. If anything, to me, it's Acura's fault for not offering more models.
In China, people there really like the big 3 German brands. It's interesting to know Audi is the most popular. I'd have thought Mercedes Benz is the #1 brand there. Japanese car makers can't compete. I have relatives in China that told me Japanese vehicles aren't popular because of how Japan invaded Japan decades ago.....
That is one of the reasons and the other primary reason is the same reason as anywhere else in the world - brand/status recognition. Except us take it to another level when compared to people in the US.
This is the thing. you are providing reasons why Acura is selling less than Audi, which is fine. But to be honest, who cares. The bottom line is Audi used to sell about the same amount of cars as Acura, just not too long ago. And now they have surpassed them by a large margin.
You compete with what you have. If you dont have it, too bad.
We were talking about the sales #s between Audi and Acura. Now if you want to talk about Audi's sales # vs BMW or Mercedes, that is a completely different subject and there are many reasons why it can't compete in sales with those 2 in the US.
Just to name a few: history, perception (unreliable even by German's Standard), leasing program, resale value, dealer network and to me probably the most important one, their new model cycle. For every new Audi they introduce, BMW and Merc already introduced 2 generations already.
Let's use S4 as an example, a 2015 A4/S4 is almost a decade old. It has a very nice engine and performance but when you dig into the details: it does not have auto folding mirrors (both 3 and C do), its back up camera's resolution is from 90s. The screen size is the same as my phone and it is actually more expensive to lease than the 3 and the C by hundreds a month.
The new A4 is very nice and has surpassed its competitors in many ways especially in technology but damn you can almost lease 1 320 and 1 328 for the price of 1 well equipped A4.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 06-02-2016 at 06:52 PM.
Duh man, thats because the Lambo comes with summer tires. If they put summer tires on the RLX, not only would it be faster than a Lambo, it'd outsell it for sure too!
whose fault is it that Acura is not competing in every segment? You are blaming others for Acura not offering certain models or engines?
Do you blame others for making too much $$ for your inability to make money?
You know what is not devaluing the brand? the day that Acura does not exist anymore because apparently selling too many cars is bad for business.
Aura is still not fully global brand. so simply it does not make sense to enter more segments. Audi is completely devalued brand. its practically on every corner of UK.
VW can be sued for hundreds of billions of dollars. Qatar soverign wealth fund one of largest share holder is contemplating it. so don't look at paper profits.
People buy Acura not just for Honda+1/reliability but for separate dealership service. less waiting times, more loaner cars etc.
Audi is disposable crap.
Aura is still not fully global brand. so simply it does not make sense to enter more segments. Audi is completely devalued brand. its practically on every corner of UK.
VW can be sued for hundreds of billions of dollars. Qatar soverign wealth fund one of largest share holder is contemplating it. so don't look at paper profits.
People buy Acura not just for Honda+1/reliability but for separate dealership service. less waiting times, more loaner cars etc.
Audi is disposable crap.
have you been to an Audi dealership? you somehow think Audi and VW are together like Toyota and Scion?
you know who has less waiting time and more exclusive than Acura? Mitsubishi... maybe you should trade in your TSX for a Mirage.
My point is that, when you start selling more models, then naturally, your total sales would increase. In this case, the number of Audi models are closer to BMW than Acura. The only segments Audi isn't competiting with BMW are electric cars and X4, X6, and the GT's.
Acura is missing key models to compete with the likes of A5, A7, A8, TT, and Q3.
This isn't a dig against Audi. I recognize that it makes some attractive cars with nice designs. It's more about pointing out the obvious facts - that Audi offers way more models than Acura, and consequently, should be able to sell more vehicles. If anything, to me, it's Acura's fault for not offering more models.
In China, people there really like the big 3 German brands. It's interesting to know Audi is the most popular. I'd have thought Mercedes Benz is the #1 brand there. Japanese car makers can't compete. I have relatives in China that told me Japanese vehicles aren't popular because of how Japan invaded Japan decades ago.....
Honda is doing very well in China. new generation Chinese eat Japanese food and fly planes built with extensive Japanese components like Boeing.
have you been to an Audi dealership? you somehow think Audi and VW are together like Toyota and Scion?
you know who has less waiting time and more exclusive than Acura? Mitsubishi... maybe you should trade in your TSX for a Mirage.
in Bayarea. Acura dealerships are more and in prime locations. Honda/Acura managed to spend money in dealership expansion way earlier than Audi.
we have couple of A7/S6/S5/A8 in our office. they look like tin can after few years. there is another 6 year old A3. the engine sound like tractor.
05-24-2016, 02:11 AM
take it to another level when compared to people in the US. 