oonowindoo

i was not talking about the AWD RLX, i was talking about FWD RLX with the hybrid system that helps its cornering.

I thought FWD RLX has that.

oonowindoo

That is what i get in REAL LIFE. Never said that s the EPA.

oonowindoo

Then i guess i am the minority but regardless,if you want to compare apple to apple.

01 CL-S i average about 22mpg mixed highway/local
06 accord i average about 22-24mph mixed highway/local
13 335 i average about 29 mixed highway/local
05 and 07 S2000 i average about 23-24 mpg
08 G37 was about 19mpg mixed

Same city, same person, same driving habit, same calculating method (total miles per tank / # of gallon filled) i dont trust on the board computer.

Been resetting the trip computer everytime i refilled my tank on all my car to see the mileage. I even reset the E92 328 loaner car when i filled it up. So far 18.5mpg!
I don't care about getting the best MPG but i have always been curious about the #.
So based on my experience you cannot convince me that your 02 TL-S or my 01 CL-S can get 30mpg mixed highway/city.

Nowadays almost all cars can get 30mpg on 100% highway, i was averaging 29mpg in my boss's S550 on the way back from Vegas. But how often does that happen?

My #s are in no way representation of what you will get in your car but at least it gives you an idea. So if you are saying you can get 30mpg in your 2G TL, then you should be getting 35+ in 335 with the same driving style.

ttribe

Yes, it's called "P AWS", but it has nothing to do with a hybrid system. All RLXs have P AWS. The "Sport Hybrid" will be the only one with AWD.

SSFTSX

It is not Acura that added sport to FWD name. They certainly put worse tires if sport is there objective. It is reasonable system that sets it apart from family sedans. and RLX handling is not worse than BMW 535 if both have same sets of tires.

ttribe

Ken1997TL

My '03 TL (base) got 33 mpg without any trouble on long trips.

Legend2TL

The most reliable and consistent method is what the EPA does for mileage claims. Not perfect but provides the most precision process and methods that the EPA does in a controlled environment with set speeds, course, temps, road surface, .... Far better than individual claims (IMO, the worst reference) and even media claims. Until something else comes along better, the best out there for comparing apples to apples is EPA mileage as a reference.

FWIW
2013 Accord 6AT V6 21 / 34 / 25
2013 335 6AT 23 / 33 / 26

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....33172&id=33054

I suspect I would get similar mileage for either vehicle

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Here's the thing, the 2G TL is rated at EPA 17/27mpg. A lot of people, including you and me, are getting 30+mpg on the hwy.

The 2013 Accord V6 6AT is rated at EPA 21/34mpg. There are quite a few people over at TOV getting close to 40mpg on the hwy.

In short, while we can get better than EPA rating on the hwy, the same can be said of the new Accord too.

I agree. EPA ratings might not be the most accurate because it doesn't factor in different driving styles and manufacturers can easily fudge the numbers these days to run well in EPA cycles, but it sure is better than any individual claim as we all live in different places which have different elevations, roads, hills, traffic conditions, etc.

00TL-P3.2

I'd assume I'm another of the 2G TL drivers getting ~30hwy. I'm averaging 26-28 combined, usually 70/30 hwy/city.

pimpin-tl

I get 22 city mixed on my TL AWD. Straight highway, I get 31-32mpg in it. So yes I believe it.

oonowindoo

There is no 6AT. Typo i assume.

While I mainly agree with you but i still think some of the claims by EPA is not realistic, well at least to me.

No point to debate on this useless topic, as i really don't care about having 20 more or less miles per tank.

Legend2TL

my bad 8AT

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....33054&id=32907

6MT gets worst mileage than the 8AT which sorta proves how amazing modern AT's are.

The EPA mileage number are more realistic than the use to be. The technical editor of R&T had a great article on the new standards and how the DOT/EPA have changed to be more consistent and have greater accuracy and precision with respect to actual driving. Still not perfect but it's the best that's out there for comparing vehicles.

fsttyms1

Brembos dont make the car stop any faster, that is solely based a coefficient of traction (and abs software programming) what the brembos will do is allow it to do repeated stops without the fade that the acura would have

Legend2TL

The repeated fade is more the brake rotor and pad material not the Brembo calipers.

What the Brembo's calipers mainly bring is excellent modulation and control since the 4/6/8 pistons and fixed caliper design allow consistent pad/rotor force and distribution. They also have very low friction between the pston seal and bore due to their propiertary coatings. And they can reduce sprung weight with their aluminum construction over the cast iron of most fixed 1/2 piston calipers.

fsttyms1

And where the brembos come in as the are usually a larger dia rotor, thicker which allows for better heat absorption and dissipation. But none of that will make the car stop faster if the tires cant grip enough to allow more brake force.

Legend2TL

Sometimes, on the 3G TL IIRC the rotors are slightly larger in diamter and thinner.

Automatic transmission -Ventilated, 11.4 in (300 mm) diameter; 1.1 in (28 mm) rotor thickness
Manual transmission - Brembo ventilated, 12.2 in (310 mm) diameter, 0.98 in (25 mm) rotor thickness



And yes the tires are important as their coefficent of friction is often the limiting factor in low-mid velocity stopping where brake thermal/friction management is not a problem. That is not the case in high velocity or carrying a heavy load. stopping from 80+ often puts the brakes friction and thermal management as the weak link. Towing with a heavy load also puts the brakes as the weak link as well.


It all depends on the environment (coefficient friction, temp,...) and conditions when it comes to figuring out where the limits are for braking distance.

fsttyms1

Yea, i wouldnt exactly call the brembo brake setup on the 3g stellar or a real upgrade. The 2g RL imho had better brembo brakes, 319mm dia 28mm thickness

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

FTFY

Legend2TL

2G RL is also 500lb heavier as well.

I've driven the 5AT and 6MT 3G TL's and I prefer the Brembo's for braking modulation control and feel.

The upgrade is having fixed lighter caliper with more pistons for more equal distribution of the brake forces across the pad area.

And they look cool too

SSFTSX

RLX is faster and handles better than LS F sport.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

biker

^, yes, we know, we get it, the RLX is the best car in the class - unfortunately for Honda that has not translated into any meanigful sales.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

I guess not many RLX buyers are really interested in buying the $48-60K "everything-is-the-best" RLX just to beat the $88K LS-F in speed and handling. Pity indeed.

AZuser

But LS F Sport is more expensive to lease or buy than RLX. RLX "too much cut price compared to" LS F Sport "so it is not competitor at all."

for example RLX is Lexus GS F Sport competitor because it is similarly priced.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rt-test-review

SSFTSX

GS F sport is too noisy and cramped to be considered as Luxury car. and without 265 rear size tire. i highly doubt GS F sport can handle better than RLX. It is thanks to tires that it handles better.

fsttyms1

And what is your point? When comparing cars with different tires, the Same could be said about a Ferrari, ZR1,Viper, GTR etc... Simple fact is is that some cars come with better handling tires which give it the advantage. And DONT say well "if" said car came with the same tires it would handle better, because you cant because it DOESNT come with it, and if you do we will just do the same about the other car. And just because its a larger tire doesnt mean its going to handle better. I have had 235s that handled better than 255s

ttribe

The only point in his posts is this: "The answer is ALWAYS tires."

SSFTSX

255 may be soft side wall that's why don't handle well. the point is RLX is for quietness and fuel efficiency to make it like LS. not GS F sport.
Even GS 350 AWD need Dunlop Sport Max to pull 0.87g. Car gest slower at 100mph despite increased traction from AWD launch.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...exus-gs350.pdf

SSFTSX

see TL-SH-AWD example. Its the tires that make all the difference. without those tires TL-SH-AWD can only pull 0.86g which is a lot closer to 0.84g of RLX. and RLX have longer wheel base.

fsttyms1

I can guarantee you that the sidewall wasnt soft. Just because the tire is wider or not an all season doesnt mean its leaps and bounds better than something smaller or all season.

WTF does the car getting slower at 100mph despite having increased traction from launch have anything to do with tires? or anything in general?..... Ill let you in on a little hint...... NOTHING!!!!

ttribe

I hate to say - "I told you so.", bbbbuuuuttttt......

fsttyms1

I know. Im sure next he will throw in superior ground clearance, best in class paint and aerodynamic mirrors that help to make the difference as well.

Hapa DC5

From what I know about Acuras, I can tell you they have the best vent design. RLX vent design is far superior than LS, 7 series, or even S-class. You know the flagships of their companies, the RLX's immediate and only competition.

fsttyms1

Got bored. Made a quick chop, my version of the RLX.

RLX Looks much better as/with the Chevy Body.

AZP-TL

Just because a company overcharges doesn't automatically mean its product is better.

AZuser

fsttyms1

I guess you needed red text for his post.

YEH

The RLX competes directly against other "full size" interior room FWD-based sedans (the XTS, MKS), but is also seen as competing against the midsize RWD sedans on the basis of price.

As stated by Acura execs, the RLX is seen as competing more against the midsize sedans than the flagship sedans, so comparisons to the GS is more apt (just as the midsize FWD Lexus ES and Lincoln MKZ are seen as "competing" against the compact RWD segment and Cadillac seeing that the XTS competes in the midsize segment along w/ the new CTS, while the upcoming Omega-based RWD sedan will compete in the flagship segment).

SSFTSX

2013 Genesis Coupe 6MT 340bhp. 0-60 in 7.4 second. summer performane tires.
http://www.tflcar.com/2013/07/2013-h...-drive-review/

2013 RLX 6AT 310 bhp 0-60 in 8.1 seconds. All season tire setup. 500lbs heavier car.
http://www.tflcar.com/2013/07/2014-a...evving-luxury/

IF RLX had summer performance tires. it will be much closer. Honda engines are degraded much less at 1 mile high tests.

ttribe

It's the tires. It's always the tires.