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I understand your point. However, the limit of the grip hasn't been reached yet. As mentioned in my post, that test driver was merely using the Continentals on a low grip old airport runway when making those runs. There's quite a bit of room left for grip.
Also, in all of the launch videos I've seen, the NSX doesn't even chirp its tires when launching from a standing start. In fact, it looks like the car bogs down every time. My understanding is that in general, you want a tiny bit of wheel spin for optimal acceleration.
How do you know the limit of their grip hasn't been reached? Any spin is the limit, and if the system is detecting any spin for the TCS to activate/modulate spin than it has been reached. The cars launch control doesnt know if you are on a sticky drag strip or oily new pavement. They have to set a middle ground for the system. There is a very fine line between too much and not enough, especially in a 2wd turbo setup. It doesnt take much for it to be too much and then the system has to react harder to keep it under control and thus making it actually slower. True AWD setups have a much higher threshold for wheelspin and the vehicles power being able to overcome the grip and can have more rpm/power to launch. It may also be right at the threshold of the electric motors output being able to drive/accelerate the front wheels/vehicle mass any faster. They are after all fairly small power wise units.
How do you know the limit of their grip hasn't been reached? Any spin is the limit, and if the system is detecting any spin for the TCS to activate/modulate spin than it has been reached. The cars launch control doesnt know if you are on a sticky drag strip or oily new pavement. They have to set a middle ground for the system. There is a very fine line between too much and not enough, especially in a 2wd turbo setup. It doesnt take much for it to be too much and then the system has to react harder to keep it under control and thus making it actually slower. True AWD setups have a much higher threshold for wheelspin and the vehicles power being able to overcome the grip and can have more rpm/power to launch. It may also be right at the threshold of the electric motors output being able to drive/accelerate the front wheels/vehicle mass any faster. They are after all fairly small power wise units.
As mentioned, in the article, the test driver noted that the car was using the continental tires, driven on an old airport runway with less than ideal asphalt pavement. And under such condition, there was still no wheel spin. As such, he commented that with the proper Trofeo R tires, on proper pavement, there will be more available grip. Unfortunately, the launch control with its low launch rpm would not be able to take advantage of increased grip.
I totally understand what you are saying, and I agree. However, I'm just referencing to what the test driver said in the article. For instance, for the 2WD McLaren 675LT which has way more power and less weight than the NSX, its launch rpm is around 3500rpm. I'd also imagine given today's electronics, they can do a damn good job of sensing grip level and be able to react incredibly fast to adjust throttle, etc. With that said, with Honda new to such system, I'd rule out that they have much to learn in this area, which further adds to my point that I feel there's room for a quick 0-60mph, even with the existing powertrain and weight. Of course this is all speculation.
They aren't new to the system. Hell, I had a GMC almost base model work truck about 3 years ago that would detect icy conditions before I could detect them. All the computer has to do is sense a momentary split second loss of traction, for the computer to register it. This isn't anything new these days.
My thouhgts are that launch control is limited to such low rpm on the NSX due to the electric motors. I don't exactly know why or what could go wrong, but that's the only justification for it I could see for it. Well, another would be reliability. The NSX is intended as being daily super car... Launching is hard on a car. Maybe they limit it where you can still get great times, but you aren't beating the shit out of everything else. I dunno.
Seriously, you make figuring out where to set launch control as being a big daunting task. These guys have formula 1 expertise in the company (albeit reuslt lacking lol), they have race car drivers on pay roll, they have engineers who have dedicated their lives to cars. All it takes is some trial and error for an afternoon to figure out where the best place to set it at is. I'm guessing in this case, it came down to performance vs reliability, and reliability slightly won.
They aren't new to the system. Hell, I had a GMC almost base model work truck about 3 years ago that would detect icy conditions before I could detect them. All the computer has to do is sense a momentary split second loss of traction, for the computer to register it. This isn't anything new these days.
My thouhgts are that launch control is limited to such low rpm on the NSX due to the electric motors. I don't exactly know why or what could go wrong, but that's the only justification for it I could see for it. Well, another would be reliability. The NSX is intended as being daily super car... Launching is hard on a car. Maybe they limit it where you can still get great times, but you aren't beating the shit out of everything else. I dunno.
Originally Posted by TacoBello
Seriously, you make figuring out where to set launch control as being a big daunting task. These guys have formula 1 expertise in the company (albeit reuslt lacking lol), they have race car drivers on pay roll, they have engineers who have dedicated their lives to cars. All it takes is some trial and error for an afternoon to figure out where the best place to set it at is. I'm guessing in this case, it came down to performance vs reliability, and reliability slightly won.
Lol, no, my point wasn't to say launch control is hard to figure out. Sorry if I made it sound that way. That's why I said, with today's electronics, I'm pretty sure the computer can do a much better job at launching a car fast. I wouldn't think setting the launch high rpm would result in massive wheel spin that the launch control system can't handle.
I agree, and that's my point - that Honda is playing safe here with the launch control rpm. With just 500hp, 305 width tires, and over 2000lb sitting at the back (and even more when accelerating due to weight transfer), there's a lot of grip there. When a 3000lb McLaren with just RWD with 675hp can launch at 3500rpm, I am not convinced that setting the launch control rpm higher in the NSX would mean a slower launch. I agree that it's probably to do with reliability more than anything else. That or the compatibility with the hybrid system.
This is why I feel in future model years, Honda might optimize the launch control system as they get more real world data.
If you've experienced exotics racing (or similar) you get a very small taste of what cars like these are capable of on a track. The insider experience was on a whole new level. I actually had to take a breather after a couple of hours of pulling max G's.
If anything, it will be sobering to take delivery and realize that the hardest you will be able to push this car on a public road will be on a freeway entrance ramp.
The trunk is bigger than I thought. It seems as big as my S2k's trunk. Between my friend's S2k and my S2k, we were able to carry belongings for 4 people, a bunch of fruits and snacks, two helmets, a cooler, a car jack, engine oil, and a big rubbermaid box full of track day tools without any problem.
I feel that the NSX's trunk is large enough to hold stuff for two people going for a road trip.
I think the looks of the new NSX has grown on me.... but i still think it is too expensive for what it is considering a base NSX is $160k vs. $110k GTR.
Both have arguably similar performance despite GTR being almost 10 years old.
i think everyone thinks it's expensive. doug demauro tries to defend it in the video above...but with all the value points he brings up, other cheaper cars have those features too!
Give me a break, Doug....the cup holders arent practical
Honestly, just buy a used one in 3 years. I'm sure you can find a nice, low mileage example for well under 160k. Yes, it'll still be pricey, but you're then paying 120k for a near new car.
Honestly, just buy a used one in 3 years. I'm sure you can find a nice, low mileage example for well under 160k. Yes, it'll still be pricey, but you're then paying 120k for a near new car.
the way the dealers have them stacked up on the lots, i bet you could get a brand new one for $160k with azn haggling skillz
but cheaper cars still do things better....
I still haven't seen dealers with stockpiles of NSXs laying around. The most I've seen is 2 at a dealer, with one already being sold and just sitting there.
Yeah, if no one is buying them, then I'm sure you can haggle a great price. That pretty much goes for anything.
And yeah, you can buy a GTR for less, but let's be honest- it's old as fuck now and I'd be tired of looking at one everyday at this point. It just doesn't have the same wow factor anymore like it used to. Don't get me wrong- I know it's still a beast on the road, but its looks are just getting dated. But then again, to each their own, as looks and beauty are always in the eye of the beholder, but I'm sure if both cars were side by side, most would be moving over to the NSX.
That, and Nissan has a penchant for building cars as literally as cheap as possible. Carlos Ghosn was one cheap CEO. Like I know car companies try to be frugal, but Carlos Ghosn took it to a whole new level. There's shit with my Nismo where I don't understand what Nissan was thinking. I believe the GTR is no different. I get the feeling the NSX didn't follow the same route.
If performance to dollar ratio is your main priority, forget the NSX, and well, forget many other cars in this class too, like the AMG GT, R8, etc. The GTR despite being 10 yr old, would still hang with these cars.
But the GT-R can't match the refinement, ride, and NVH of the more expensive cars. And despite its incredible performance around a track, it's actually quite prone to understeer.
haha no problem man. There are a few more videos too with similar results, may be not that bad of a beating. It was when Honda released the NSX-R that things got a whole lot better. In fact, it was way faster than any other JDM cars.
I see R32s, 33s and 34s here fairly regularly... I wouldn't take any of them over a 1G NSX.
Unless done up, I don't find them to be that thrilling to look at. I know it's different for everyone in the US due to the more stringent import laws, but here, there's definitely a number of each. R32s used to be a dime a dozen around here.
My other issue with JDM cars, besides the fact they are terrible for daily driving, sitting on the right side of the car, is that it is incredibly difficult to find them in really good and well maintained condition. They are typically sold at auctions... well, what kind of cars do you find at auctions here? Ones that nobody really wanted, for whatever reason. Many of them are neglected inside, dinged, scratched, have drift tax on them, and you know they've been driven HARD.
I've even considered importing a RHD NSX... the savings aren't that great, the history is largely unknown, you can't see the car up close and you're trusting someone with a ton of cash... yeah, I dunno...
Taco, I also thought about importing an NSX before but really couldn't stand RHD...I'm sure I'd regret it if I did import. And also like you said, it's not much cheaper.
We have dealers in Vancouver that specialize in importing JDM cars. You can probably do it yourself too if you don't mind the hassle. The main requirement is that the car has to be 15 years old at least before it can be imported to Canada.
What do you mean 2nd NSX? You have an NSX already?? daaaaaaamn nice!
Taco, I also thought about importing an NSX before but really couldn't stand RHD...I'm sure I'd regret it if I did import. And also like you said, it's not much cheaper.
We have dealers in Vancouver that specialize in importing JDM cars. You can probably do it yourself too if you don't mind the hassle. The main requirement is that the car has to be 15 years old at least before it can be imported to Canada.
What do you mean 2nd NSX? You have an NSX already?? daaaaaaamn nice!
2nd Gen..... If i had a NSX.... I will store it and use it as part of my retirement fund
So R34 can be imported easily to Canada? unlike US?
I'd love myself some R34s...... then 2nd NSX.... i am not interested in R32/33.
In Canada, you can import any car that is 15+ years old. In the US, cars have to be 25+ years old.
So there are a number of JDM cars around town and a number of JDM importers around, able to get you what you want, here. Import fees aren't too bad either. $1500 to the company importing, and I think about $2500 to have it brought over in a container, on a ship.
R34s are much more rare here, simply because they are much more coveted and expensive right from the get go, but, there are some around. I came across two on the weekend.
In Canada, you can import any car that is 15+ years old. In the US, cars have to be 25+ years old.
So there are a number of JDM cars around town and a number of JDM importers around, able to get you what you want, here. Import fees aren't too bad either. $1500 to the company importing, and I think about $2500 to have it brought over in a container, on a ship.
R34s are much more rare here, simply because they are much more coveted and expensive right from the get go, but, there are some around. I came across two on the weekend.
I've seen some R34s on the street in California recently. Not quite sure how.
04-11-2017, 07:15 AM
'd the R32, not so much the R33.