Acura: NSX News
#6881
Moderator
I am sure you have heared the tire screeching sound from AUDI. and AUDI was cheating by coming into the center of road so his handling would not suffer in turns. speed only slows down when you take tighter turns. AUDI was not taking tighter turns. simply the turns of AUDI were too wide. that should compensate handling deficit and loss of momentum. there reason that tire got burst.
#6882
Team Owner
Tribe, don't laugh. SSFTSX trained The Stig to become the driver he is today.
#6883
Moderator
#6884
Turd Polisher
iTrader: (1)
I am sure you have heared the tire screeching sound from AUDI. and AUDI was cheating by coming into the center of road so his handling would not suffer in turns. speed only slows down when you take tighter turns. AUDI was not taking tighter turns. simply the turns of AUDI were too wide. that should compensate handling deficit and loss of momentum. there reason that tire got burst.
#6885
AZ Community Team
I posted this in Car Talk but since it was so good thought I'd post it here as well
Gordon Murray, brilliant car designer and chief engineer at McLaren from 1987-2006, as well as Brabham F1 cars from 1969-1986.
The 1G NSX inspired him for the McLaren F1 which he was head designer on, and he also owned a 1G NSX for 7-8 years.
He also designed or co-designed F1 cars which won 5 world driving titles.
Murray is referenced by Jay Leno in the 2G NSX video a couple times, and Leno of course also owns a F1.
FWIW, those of you discussing high performance tires vs all season tires, read how many tires Murray went through and even he went to a harder longer wearing compound for his NSX.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
Gordon Murray, brilliant car designer and chief engineer at McLaren from 1987-2006, as well as Brabham F1 cars from 1969-1986.
The 1G NSX inspired him for the McLaren F1 which he was head designer on, and he also owned a 1G NSX for 7-8 years.
He also designed or co-designed F1 cars which won 5 world driving titles.
Murray is referenced by Jay Leno in the 2G NSX video a couple times, and Leno of course also owns a F1.
FWIW, those of you discussing high performance tires vs all season tires, read how many tires Murray went through and even he went to a harder longer wearing compound for his NSX.
A Car Dear to my Heart - Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
To this day, the NSX is still a car that is near and dear to my heart. I put 75,000 Km on my NSX over the course of six or seven years.
It's very difficult to discuss the NSX using current values and sensibilities. When the NSX debuted, the word "supercar" was still a relatively new idea in Europe. There are some who would say the Lamborghini Miura from the late 1960s was the first supercar. However, the truth is the explosion of modern supercars really started at the end of the 1980s.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
At the end of the 80s was the time when McLaren Cars was conceiving the idea for the McLaren F1. To that end, I was concentrating on coming up with what I wanted in a road car.
To my thinking, the ideal car is one in which I could get in the driver's seat and be out for a drive in downtown London and then want to continue straight on to the South of France. A car that you can trust, with functional air conditioning and retains daily drivability. No offset pedals allowed. No high dashboards restricting your view either. Having a low roof hitting your head every time you go over a bump in the name of aerodynamics and styling is out of the question. It is essential that a supercar be a pleasure to drive, and anything detracting from that must be excised.
I started by driving the cars known then as "supercars." The Porsche 959, Bugatti EB110, Ferrari F40, Jaguar XJ220. Unfortunately, none of these fit the pattern of the supercar we were trying to build. What we wanted was a relatively compact, usable driver's car. The Porsche 911 had the usability, but with the engine packed in the back, it had a weakness in its handling stability.
During this time, we were able to visit with Ayrton Senna (the late F1 Champion) Honda's Tochigi Research Center. The visit related to the fact that at the time, McLaren's F1 Grand Prix cars were using Honda engines.
Coincidentally, I spotted an NSX prototype parked near the course. I also learned at the time that Ayrton was assisting in the development of the NSX and that Honda rear mid-engined sports car–the NSX–was the friendly supercar that we had been looking for. This car had perfectly functional air conditioning, a reasonably roomy trunk and of course, it was a Honda, with the high levels of quality and reliability that implies.
Then I had the opportunity to drive it. Along with Ron Dennis (President, McLaren Cars) and Mansour Ojjeh (Tag McLaren Group Representative), we drove the prototype on the Tochigi Research Center test course. I remember being moved, thinking, "It is remarkable how our vision comes through in this car."
Of course as you know, the engine has only six cylinders; however, the NSX's very rigid chassis is excellent and would easily be capable of handling more power. Although it's true I had thought it would have been better to put a larger engine, the moment I drove the "little" NSX, all the benchmark cars–Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini–I had been using as references in the development of my car vanished from my mind. Of course the car we would create, the McLaren F1, needed to be faster than the NSX, but the NSX's ride quality and handling would become our new design target.
When working on the development of a new car for years, it's easy to be caught in certain pitfalls. When you drive the car under development for testing every day (in truth, I was responsible for two-thirds of the testing for the McLaren F1), in that time, you can unknowingly convince yourself you are making progress when in fact you are not. For example, it's human nature that at the end of a long day you may want to think that your efforts to reduce low speed harshness are working better than they are. It is at times like this when you need a car to compare with. In those situations, the NSX time and again showed us the path in the areas of ride quality and handling, and also helped us recognize when we weren't making as much progress as we thought.
In my opinion, the NSX's most special quality has long been overlooked.
That could be summarized with the words, "The NSX's suspension is amazing."
Both the body and suspension are aluminum, and it probably couldn't be helped that journalists' attention has been focused on praising the aluminum body. However, the suspension is the much more impressive use of aluminum.
It's lightweight, tough, yet compliant. Also contributing to the refined NSX's handling and ride quality are 17 inch wheels and tires that are not overly large. The NSX's suspension is truly an ingenious system, and back then I imagined the development costs must have been enormous. To achieve that unparalleled accuracy and superior ride quality, longitudinal wheel movement is allowed via the use of a compliance pivot.
Compliance refers to when you travel over a bump, the tire experiences a longitudinal force, which the tire and suspension must move with and absorb the shock. The pivot couples the upper and lower arms. It is connected to the arms via ball joints so that they move as a unit. When encountering input, the pivot rotates, keeping alignment changes to near zero while retaining compliance (see diagram). The inspiration obtained from this NSX suspension system would later influence the development of the McLaren F1′s suspension.
The NSX was also the first car to use DBW (Drive By Wire). It felt very pleasing. DBW is when instead of using a mechanical cable, an electronic signal is used to communicate throttle position. It achieved a very natural, linear feeling throttle, and I can now hide my embarrassment and confess that I copied the idea during the development of the McLaren F1 (laughs).
The low-slung NSX's driver's seat position also provided just the right head clearance and an amazing field of view. The NSX development team moved the air conditioning unit away from the dash and deep into the NSX's nose in order to obtain more space. That air conditioning unit is an excellent one, and normally, you don't notice whether it's on or not.
On the day I bought the NSX, I pressed the "Auto" button and since then until selling it, I never had to touch it. It was that perfect. Ah, I also remember the audio system as being very good.
However, the media wrote up the aluminum body and the many merits and advantages I perceived in the NSX have largely been overlooked.
In my opinion, the NSX, while being such a great sports car, had two large flaws in its marketing. First, at the time, the public was not ready to accept a Japanese car that was this expensive. The second is that for supercar customers, the power figures were not quite high enough. Of course, the prototype's engine was not bad, and soon the VTEC engine was added. Whenever I hear that VTEC sound it's amazing. I am repeating myself, but the NSX's excellent chassis would have been capable of handling much more power.
With just a slightly lower price, or possibly selling it with a different brand name and a different badge, or perhaps endowing it with a touch flashier and more aggressive styling and additional power, there is no question the NSX would have reigned as a cult star of the supercars.
However, during that time, in Honda's philosophy there was a resistance to large engines with many cylinders. I am not certain, but probably at the time, the voluntary restraint on power limits was a factor. Being a fan of Honda engines, I later went to Honda's Tochigi Research Center on two occasions and requested that they consider building for the McLaren F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up equipped with a BMW engine.
The NSX's development costs must have been enormous. Everything on it is unique. The chassis, powertrain, even the air conditioning are peerless. That aluminum body was very expensive. The numerous hurdles overcome by the NSX to reach production in areas such as spot welding, corrosion, and repairability make it a monumental work in automotive history. The philosophy of creating a car for human beings is apparent throughout. If it were me, I probably would not have obsessed over the aluminum and would have settled for a steel structure with aluminum panels to try to achieve a similar weight reduction. But what I really want to emphasize is the suspension. It is a a groundbreaking use of aluminum.
There are a few things that could be improved on the NSX. First, the tires are too soft. Over the seven years I ran mine, I went through 14 sets of tires. After changing over to harder-compound Michelins in the rear, my tire life increased. As a result, rear grip was decreased slightly, but driving became more fun. The NSX's traction control and ABS are first generation systems and as a result are somewhat slow-acting. I also missed having more storage space in the interior. However, such things hardly seem significant in a sports car of this calibre.
The NSX is a landmark car. It awoke not only a lazy Ferrari, but Porsche as well and sparked advances in usability, ergonomics, and handling. It may not have achieved success from a marketing standpoint, but many influential and important people have owned them. The NSX is also unusual in that it continued to be on sale for so long. If I were to looking for that type of car now, I would–without a doubt–gladly own an NSX again.
-Gordon Murray
To this day, the NSX is still a car that is near and dear to my heart. I put 75,000 Km on my NSX over the course of six or seven years.
It's very difficult to discuss the NSX using current values and sensibilities. When the NSX debuted, the word "supercar" was still a relatively new idea in Europe. There are some who would say the Lamborghini Miura from the late 1960s was the first supercar. However, the truth is the explosion of modern supercars really started at the end of the 1980s.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
At the end of the 80s was the time when McLaren Cars was conceiving the idea for the McLaren F1. To that end, I was concentrating on coming up with what I wanted in a road car.
To my thinking, the ideal car is one in which I could get in the driver's seat and be out for a drive in downtown London and then want to continue straight on to the South of France. A car that you can trust, with functional air conditioning and retains daily drivability. No offset pedals allowed. No high dashboards restricting your view either. Having a low roof hitting your head every time you go over a bump in the name of aerodynamics and styling is out of the question. It is essential that a supercar be a pleasure to drive, and anything detracting from that must be excised.
I started by driving the cars known then as "supercars." The Porsche 959, Bugatti EB110, Ferrari F40, Jaguar XJ220. Unfortunately, none of these fit the pattern of the supercar we were trying to build. What we wanted was a relatively compact, usable driver's car. The Porsche 911 had the usability, but with the engine packed in the back, it had a weakness in its handling stability.
During this time, we were able to visit with Ayrton Senna (the late F1 Champion) Honda's Tochigi Research Center. The visit related to the fact that at the time, McLaren's F1 Grand Prix cars were using Honda engines.
Coincidentally, I spotted an NSX prototype parked near the course. I also learned at the time that Ayrton was assisting in the development of the NSX and that Honda rear mid-engined sports car–the NSX–was the friendly supercar that we had been looking for. This car had perfectly functional air conditioning, a reasonably roomy trunk and of course, it was a Honda, with the high levels of quality and reliability that implies.
Then I had the opportunity to drive it. Along with Ron Dennis (President, McLaren Cars) and Mansour Ojjeh (Tag McLaren Group Representative), we drove the prototype on the Tochigi Research Center test course. I remember being moved, thinking, "It is remarkable how our vision comes through in this car."
Of course as you know, the engine has only six cylinders; however, the NSX's very rigid chassis is excellent and would easily be capable of handling more power. Although it's true I had thought it would have been better to put a larger engine, the moment I drove the "little" NSX, all the benchmark cars–Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini–I had been using as references in the development of my car vanished from my mind. Of course the car we would create, the McLaren F1, needed to be faster than the NSX, but the NSX's ride quality and handling would become our new design target.
When working on the development of a new car for years, it's easy to be caught in certain pitfalls. When you drive the car under development for testing every day (in truth, I was responsible for two-thirds of the testing for the McLaren F1), in that time, you can unknowingly convince yourself you are making progress when in fact you are not. For example, it's human nature that at the end of a long day you may want to think that your efforts to reduce low speed harshness are working better than they are. It is at times like this when you need a car to compare with. In those situations, the NSX time and again showed us the path in the areas of ride quality and handling, and also helped us recognize when we weren't making as much progress as we thought.
In my opinion, the NSX's most special quality has long been overlooked.
That could be summarized with the words, "The NSX's suspension is amazing."
Both the body and suspension are aluminum, and it probably couldn't be helped that journalists' attention has been focused on praising the aluminum body. However, the suspension is the much more impressive use of aluminum.
It's lightweight, tough, yet compliant. Also contributing to the refined NSX's handling and ride quality are 17 inch wheels and tires that are not overly large. The NSX's suspension is truly an ingenious system, and back then I imagined the development costs must have been enormous. To achieve that unparalleled accuracy and superior ride quality, longitudinal wheel movement is allowed via the use of a compliance pivot.
Compliance refers to when you travel over a bump, the tire experiences a longitudinal force, which the tire and suspension must move with and absorb the shock. The pivot couples the upper and lower arms. It is connected to the arms via ball joints so that they move as a unit. When encountering input, the pivot rotates, keeping alignment changes to near zero while retaining compliance (see diagram). The inspiration obtained from this NSX suspension system would later influence the development of the McLaren F1′s suspension.
The NSX was also the first car to use DBW (Drive By Wire). It felt very pleasing. DBW is when instead of using a mechanical cable, an electronic signal is used to communicate throttle position. It achieved a very natural, linear feeling throttle, and I can now hide my embarrassment and confess that I copied the idea during the development of the McLaren F1 (laughs).
The low-slung NSX's driver's seat position also provided just the right head clearance and an amazing field of view. The NSX development team moved the air conditioning unit away from the dash and deep into the NSX's nose in order to obtain more space. That air conditioning unit is an excellent one, and normally, you don't notice whether it's on or not.
On the day I bought the NSX, I pressed the "Auto" button and since then until selling it, I never had to touch it. It was that perfect. Ah, I also remember the audio system as being very good.
However, the media wrote up the aluminum body and the many merits and advantages I perceived in the NSX have largely been overlooked.
In my opinion, the NSX, while being such a great sports car, had two large flaws in its marketing. First, at the time, the public was not ready to accept a Japanese car that was this expensive. The second is that for supercar customers, the power figures were not quite high enough. Of course, the prototype's engine was not bad, and soon the VTEC engine was added. Whenever I hear that VTEC sound it's amazing. I am repeating myself, but the NSX's excellent chassis would have been capable of handling much more power.
With just a slightly lower price, or possibly selling it with a different brand name and a different badge, or perhaps endowing it with a touch flashier and more aggressive styling and additional power, there is no question the NSX would have reigned as a cult star of the supercars.
However, during that time, in Honda's philosophy there was a resistance to large engines with many cylinders. I am not certain, but probably at the time, the voluntary restraint on power limits was a factor. Being a fan of Honda engines, I later went to Honda's Tochigi Research Center on two occasions and requested that they consider building for the McLaren F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up equipped with a BMW engine.
The NSX's development costs must have been enormous. Everything on it is unique. The chassis, powertrain, even the air conditioning are peerless. That aluminum body was very expensive. The numerous hurdles overcome by the NSX to reach production in areas such as spot welding, corrosion, and repairability make it a monumental work in automotive history. The philosophy of creating a car for human beings is apparent throughout. If it were me, I probably would not have obsessed over the aluminum and would have settled for a steel structure with aluminum panels to try to achieve a similar weight reduction. But what I really want to emphasize is the suspension. It is a a groundbreaking use of aluminum.
There are a few things that could be improved on the NSX. First, the tires are too soft. Over the seven years I ran mine, I went through 14 sets of tires. After changing over to harder-compound Michelins in the rear, my tire life increased. As a result, rear grip was decreased slightly, but driving became more fun. The NSX's traction control and ABS are first generation systems and as a result are somewhat slow-acting. I also missed having more storage space in the interior. However, such things hardly seem significant in a sports car of this calibre.
The NSX is a landmark car. It awoke not only a lazy Ferrari, but Porsche as well and sparked advances in usability, ergonomics, and handling. It may not have achieved success from a marketing standpoint, but many influential and important people have owned them. The NSX is also unusual in that it continued to be on sale for so long. If I were to looking for that type of car now, I would–without a doubt–gladly own an NSX again.
-Gordon Murray
Last edited by Legend2TL; 03-04-2016 at 12:49 PM.
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skd2k1 (03-04-2016)
#6887
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
I posted this in Car Talk but since it was so good thought I'd post it here as well
Gordon Murray, brilliant car designer and chief engineer at McLaren from 1987-2006, as well as Brabham F1 cars from 1969-1986.
The 1G NSX inspired him for the McLaren F1 which he was head designer on, and he also owned a 1G NSX for 7-8 years.
He also designed or co-designed F1 cars which won 5 world driving titles.
Murray is referenced by Jay Leno in the 2G NSX video a couple times, and Leno of course also owns a F1.
FWIW, those of you discussing high performance tires vs all season tires, read how many tires Murray went through and even he went to a harder longer wearing compound for his NSX.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
Gordon Murray, brilliant car designer and chief engineer at McLaren from 1987-2006, as well as Brabham F1 cars from 1969-1986.
The 1G NSX inspired him for the McLaren F1 which he was head designer on, and he also owned a 1G NSX for 7-8 years.
He also designed or co-designed F1 cars which won 5 world driving titles.
Murray is referenced by Jay Leno in the 2G NSX video a couple times, and Leno of course also owns a F1.
FWIW, those of you discussing high performance tires vs all season tires, read how many tires Murray went through and even he went to a harder longer wearing compound for his NSX.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
#6888
Safety Car
Gordon Murray, brilliant car designer and chief engineer at McLaren from 1987-2006, as well as Brabham F1 cars from 1969-1986.
The 1G NSX inspired him for the McLaren F1 which he was head designer on, and he also owned a 1G NSX for 7-8 years.
He also designed or co-designed F1 cars which won 5 world driving titles.
Murray is referenced by Jay Leno in the 2G NSX video a couple times, and Leno of course also owns a F1.
FWIW, those of you discussing high performance tires vs all season tires, read how many tires Murray went through and even he went to a harder longer wearing compound for his NSX.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
The 1G NSX inspired him for the McLaren F1 which he was head designer on, and he also owned a 1G NSX for 7-8 years.
He also designed or co-designed F1 cars which won 5 world driving titles.
Murray is referenced by Jay Leno in the 2G NSX video a couple times, and Leno of course also owns a F1.
FWIW, those of you discussing high performance tires vs all season tires, read how many tires Murray went through and even he went to a harder longer wearing compound for his NSX.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
For so many reasons, don't think the 2G NSX can ever live up to that standard.
#6889
Senior Moderator
I am sure you have heared the tire screeching sound from AUDI. and AUDI was cheating by coming into the center of road so his handling would not suffer in turns. speed only slows down when you take tighter turns. AUDI was not taking tighter turns. simply the turns of AUDI were too wide. that should compensate handling deficit and loss of momentum. there reason that tire got burst.
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00TL-P3.2 (03-14-2016)
#6890
FWIW, those of you discussing high performance tires vs all season tires, read how many tires Murray went through and even he went to a harder longer wearing compound for his NSX.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
In this thread we're discussing power figures and weight... no doubt people here are criticizing outright performance. All-seasons aren't the answer.
#6891
Safety Car
So on a bored friday night...went through a "what's your profile" thread I found on NSX Prime to see a very rough idea of 1G NSX owners.
Omitted posters who do not currently own NSX (as of their posting time). And some oddities that seems a bit far fetched (ie, a guy who claims to be Asperger and unemployed with a garage list of 4 porsches owned and a Zanardi NSX...)
115 posts identified that claimed to own NSX and were not off-topic posts:
Average age of poster - 31.8 (median of 30)
Ages range from 20 to 64
88 with no kids
27 with 1 or more kids
52 were married (rest were single or engaged, few mentioned divorced)
Majority had at least Bachelor's degree
And now onto a quick breakdown of occupations (rough counts from my view of the excel data I created)
15 IT (engineer, software, systems admin, etc.)
6 non-IT engineers
13 manager type occupations
12 sales
9 small business owners
7 doctors
3 lawyers
couple of dentists
couple of executive types
couple of pilots (military)
couple of banker/finance
3-4 teacher/professor types (including an elementary principal)
and the rest were a smorgasboard of random things (film, audit, architect, etc.)
Aside from the highly variable incomes of business owners and executives...most of the jobs seem to be more upper middle class. Of course doctors/lawyers can also have fluctuating incomes and can vary quite a bit.
Of course the BIG confounder in this very non-scientific study is that many of the posters had older early to mid 90s NSX (the thread started in 2001, then revived in 04/05). Very few did I read where posters bought new/almost new cars during that time.
So this does not correlate well to the brand new buyer....which would have to be able to shell out 200k for a car instead of say 50-70k for a car...much diff segments.
I have attached the excel to this post for viewing pleasure.
Oh and this is the NSX Prime thread: http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showth...-of-NSX-Owners
Last edited by nist7; 03-04-2016 at 09:25 PM.
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TacoBello (03-05-2016)
#6892
Never mind the fact that the guy driving the Audi was an idiot and has no clue as how to drive, your description of his driving and your lack of performance driving knowledge, are worse than his skills. Ive seen guys in very capable cars with R compounds on get passed by cars a lot less capable with all season tires. You know why? DRIVER.
. that person has sufficient history of driving experiance. RS4 are not that many on sale. its very very rare car. more than M3. taking wider turns make car less loss energy. NSX was taking tighter turns but still it was not losing momentum.
#6893
Team Owner
Dude, you come up with the dumbest arguments time and again, and you just can't admit that you're ever wrong. Let's just put it this way- uber rich celebrities and uber rich racing team owners are NOT the intended market for this car.
Leno and Seinfeld initially jumped on board because Honda handed over huge sacks with dollar signs on them, full of cash. I haven't heard Seinfeld making much noise about still wanting one. The #1 NSX sold to Hendricks is more of a museum piece, than anything else.
Leno and Seinfeld initially jumped on board because Honda handed over huge sacks with dollar signs on them, full of cash. I haven't heard Seinfeld making much noise about still wanting one. The #1 NSX sold to Hendricks is more of a museum piece, than anything else.
#6894
Team Owner
If some one can afford 10 year old V8 Audi (think about maintaince cost)
. that person has sufficient history of driving experiance. RS4 are not that many on sale. its very very rare car. more than M3. taking wider turns make car less loss energy. NSX was taking tighter turns but still it was not losing momentum.
. that person has sufficient history of driving experiance. RS4 are not that many on sale. its very very rare car. more than M3. taking wider turns make car less loss energy. NSX was taking tighter turns but still it was not losing momentum.
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fsttyms1 (03-05-2016)
#6895
Safety Car
An interesting comment on the price point of the NSX : http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showth...=1#post1891174
Essentially, too much jump from the 1G NSX ($90k, though at this time the product was quite outdated by 2005 standards) and from the current top end Acura (RLX at $56k) is not so much that "Oh look no one would pay 200k for an Acura" ...but that Acura(Honda) had not had progressive reputation building to support the jump.
As the horse has already been beaten many times...aside from the 3G TL...there wasn't much anything else during 2005-2016 time period that were truly competitive in terms of high luxury and high performance.
A parallel to draw is what Toyota did with Lexus:
F moniker established with IS-F in 2007
Then the world class LFA in 2010
Then continuation of the F cars through today.
Nothing similar to be drawn for Acura in a similar timeline. But guess you still can find buyers....(lots of millionaires in the USA) as long as you keep production numbers quite low. It will likely not sell nearly as well as initial NSX launch period. Of course part of it is the times with lots of other competitive cars vying for buyer's money.
Essentially, too much jump from the 1G NSX ($90k, though at this time the product was quite outdated by 2005 standards) and from the current top end Acura (RLX at $56k) is not so much that "Oh look no one would pay 200k for an Acura" ...but that Acura(Honda) had not had progressive reputation building to support the jump.
As the horse has already been beaten many times...aside from the 3G TL...there wasn't much anything else during 2005-2016 time period that were truly competitive in terms of high luxury and high performance.
A parallel to draw is what Toyota did with Lexus:
F moniker established with IS-F in 2007
Then the world class LFA in 2010
Then continuation of the F cars through today.
Nothing similar to be drawn for Acura in a similar timeline. But guess you still can find buyers....(lots of millionaires in the USA) as long as you keep production numbers quite low. It will likely not sell nearly as well as initial NSX launch period. Of course part of it is the times with lots of other competitive cars vying for buyer's money.
#6896
Team Owner
What was crazy is the number of people who were willing to drop down big money back in 1990 on a car they knew nothing about, built by a car company that was only a couple years old. Now that was impressive.
#6897
Moderator
If some one can afford 10 year old V8 Audi (think about maintaince cost)
. that person has sufficient history of driving experiance. RS4 are not that many on sale. its very very rare car. more than M3. taking wider turns make car less loss energy. NSX was taking tighter turns but still it was not losing momentum.
. that person has sufficient history of driving experiance. RS4 are not that many on sale. its very very rare car. more than M3. taking wider turns make car less loss energy. NSX was taking tighter turns but still it was not losing momentum.
The following users liked this post:
fsttyms1 (03-05-2016)
#6898
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
Dude, you come up with the dumbest arguments time and again, and you just can't admit that you're ever wrong. Let's just put it this way- uber rich celebrities and uber rich racing team owners are NOT the intended market for this car.
Leno and Seinfeld initially jumped on board because Honda handed over huge sacks with dollar signs on them, full of cash. I haven't heard Seinfeld making much noise about still wanting one. The #1 NSX sold to Hendricks is more of a museum piece, than anything else.
Leno and Seinfeld initially jumped on board because Honda handed over huge sacks with dollar signs on them, full of cash. I haven't heard Seinfeld making much noise about still wanting one. The #1 NSX sold to Hendricks is more of a museum piece, than anything else.
“He stopped in for the show, took a little stroll around first, sat in on our car and said it was fantastic,” Accavitti said in an interview.
#6899
Senior Moderator
If some one can afford 10 year old V8 Audi (think about maintaince cost)
. that person has sufficient history of driving experiance. RS4 are not that many on sale. its very very rare car. more than M3. taking wider turns make car less loss energy. NSX was taking tighter turns but still it was not losing momentum.
. that person has sufficient history of driving experiance. RS4 are not that many on sale. its very very rare car. more than M3. taking wider turns make car less loss energy. NSX was taking tighter turns but still it was not losing momentum.
And you know it (NSX) wasnt loosing momentum how? I didnt see any incar footage from the NSX to say otherwise or that its tires werent squealing. And the mere fact you are desperately trying your hardest to compare a 10 year old SEDAN that is not only heavier, much higher center of gravity, god knows the condition of the suspension and related components, obviously the tires were crap and in shit-tastic condition because that type of driving should not have blown a tire says how little you know about the subject.
#6902
Team Owner
I think you should stop taking my comments so personally. I asked a question and you've yet to answer it. so what is the intended market for the 2g nsx? as far as seinfeld is concerned:
Seinfeld Supplants Super Bowl Ad for Acura?s $150,000 NSX - Bloomberg Business
Seinfeld Supplants Super Bowl Ad for Acura?s $150,000 NSX - Bloomberg Business
It's ok, on to your next dumb argument
#6903
Team Owner
Then again, I think him and skd2k1 are in the same club
The following users liked this post:
skd2k1 (03-06-2016)
#6906
Team Owner
If anything, I'd avoid that car. The wife probably was like "idgaf about this car. I'm rich, bitch!!"
And yup, zero bids, as expected.
#6907
Team Owner
As for who's it intended for? I'd say Acura is gunning for people who earn about 500k-1M a year. The question is do those people want it though. To me, someone who makes 250k a year, before taxes, likely can't easily afford this, without making sacrifices elsewhere. They likely have mortgages and other big ticket items to pay for. To me, that means the many buyers of the first gen will likely not be able to afford this new car.
As we all know, there really isn't one type of buyer for a car, and I feel I'm really closing the box in on a small segment. I'm sure there are outliers, but I'm guessing a good portion would fall into that box. I dunno. Let's see what happens, I still haven't heard if anyone successfully placing an order.
#6908
Safety Car
As for who's it intended for? I'd say Acura is gunning for people who earn about 500k-1M a year. The question is do those people want it though. To me, someone who makes 250k a year, before taxes, likely can't easily afford this, without making sacrifices elsewhere. They likely have mortgages and other big ticket items to pay for. To me, that means the many buyers of the first gen will likely not be able to afford this new car.
As we all know, there really isn't one type of buyer for a car, and I feel I'm really closing the box in on a small segment. I'm sure there are outliers, but I'm guessing a good portion would fall into that box. I dunno. Let's see what happens, I still haven't heard if anyone successfully placing an order.
As we all know, there really isn't one type of buyer for a car, and I feel I'm really closing the box in on a small segment. I'm sure there are outliers, but I'm guessing a good portion would fall into that box. I dunno. Let's see what happens, I still haven't heard if anyone successfully placing an order.
A quick glance at Census and some other data shows that about 2.4% of US households make 250k and over. Almost 3 million or so.
Of course I agree that those who are "only" clearing 250k a year (likely professionals with likely good financial sense) won't be buying a car that's worth 0.5x-1x of their home or almost equivalent to their annual income (maybe rare cases of someone really really loving the new NSX...hard to imagine).
At least 500k is likely target but more likely closer to clearing 1M a year is reasonable.
A quick glance at this wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afflue..._United_States shows what a household MAY look like:
Professional, white collar type occupations (MD, JD, higher level managers/executives, etc.)
Likely to be more educated with Master/Doctorate degrees.
Asians were far more likely to be in higher income bracket than other racial groups () but of course they are also known as penny pinchers and pure numbers wise...they are still in the minority with respect to % of people who earn over 100k: which the wiki page shows about 86% of those making over 100k are white, with the rest of 15% divided between asians/blacks/hispanics.
Interestingly looking at some truely wealthy people....0.1% (146,000) made 1.5M and above and about 11,000 is in the 0.01% with clearing 5.5M and above.
So very roughly the broad market base is maybe 150,000-200,000 households who can "afford" a 200k car. And obviously not all are car lovers but at that level they do have quite a bit of discretionary spending so it'll basically be up to Acura to see how much of a market share they can take away...because at this level there are a plethora of choices as has been posted elsewhere (911, R8, McLaren, etc.).
Of course there will be people with F U money like Hendricks/Leno/Seinfeld/Gates/Ralph Lauren/etc. Though this new NSX does ride on the old NSX Legendary rep and there may be a small pickup on that nostalgia factor alone....though again the actual inside info we may never know but is fun to speculate on.....
Last edited by nist7; 03-06-2016 at 02:16 PM.
#6909
skd2k1 must not be familiar with the idiom "don't bite the hand that feeds you"
“He stopped in for the show, took a little stroll around first, sat in on our car and said it was fantastic,” Accavitti said in an interview. The auto executive said he periodically speaks with the comedian after they first teamed up for a 2012 Super Bowl ad and Acura sponsors Seinfeld’s “Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee” show on Sony Corp.’s Crackle online video channel.
Seinfeld and Acura agreed last year to four more seasons of “Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee,” in which its creator and star picks classic rides to roll around with comics including Chris Rock, Louie CK, Larry David and Michael Richards.
Seinfeld and Acura agreed last year to four more seasons of “Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee,” in which its creator and star picks classic rides to roll around with comics including Chris Rock, Louie CK, Larry David and Michael Richards.
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TacoBello (03-07-2016)
#6910
Safety Car
Ya. Obviously the NSX is not a super terrible car. Overall I'm sure it's a good sportscar.
The finer nit-picking and criticism won't be heard from Leno/Seinfeld's mouth in the public media...what's more interesting would be to hear what Leno had to say behind the scenes in private talks with his car guys/friends about the new NSX.
Most of the PR stuff will be the standard fluff for these kinds of things....
The finer nit-picking and criticism won't be heard from Leno/Seinfeld's mouth in the public media...what's more interesting would be to hear what Leno had to say behind the scenes in private talks with his car guys/friends about the new NSX.
Most of the PR stuff will be the standard fluff for these kinds of things....
#6911
I feel the need...
On a serious note, I'm highly skeptical Honda has completed very sophisticated proprietary marketing for the NSX, they are mass market company. Perhaps they have better marketing folks at Acura but I doubt it based on my limited interaction and highly subjective feel for what's happening on the NSX rollout.
#6912
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
As for who's it intended for? I'd say Acura is gunning for people who earn about 500k-1M a year. The question is do those people want it though. To me, someone who makes 250k a year, before taxes, likely can't easily afford this, without making sacrifices elsewhere. They likely have mortgages and other big ticket items to pay for. To me, that means the many buyers of the first gen will likely not be able to afford this new car.
As we all know, there really isn't one type of buyer for a car, and I feel I'm really closing the box in on a small segment. I'm sure there are outliers, but I'm guessing a good portion would fall into that box. I dunno. Let's see what happens, I still haven't heard if anyone successfully placing an order.
As we all know, there really isn't one type of buyer for a car, and I feel I'm really closing the box in on a small segment. I'm sure there are outliers, but I'm guessing a good portion would fall into that box. I dunno. Let's see what happens, I still haven't heard if anyone successfully placing an order.
#6914
Senior Moderator
Why would anyone pay more than the price of a new one for that old one with that many miles on it? You'd have to be a really rich, big Trump fanboy to even consider it.
Last edited by neuronbob; 03-06-2016 at 07:34 PM.
#6915
Team Owner
Not sure what your picture is showing, but I bet you Acura is sponsoring Cars and Coffee because they know people like cars and a good place to find people who like cars is at cars and coffee because Acura builds and sells cars for the car buying populous and Acura is trying to stir the souls of car enthusiasts by showing a non-functioning Acura NSX car to car people.
Don't over complicate things. Don't argue back. Just accept it for what it is.
#6916
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
Not sure what your picture is showing, but I bet you Acura is sponsoring Cars and Coffee because they know people like cars and a good place to find people who like cars is at cars and coffee because Acura builds and sells cars for the car buying populous and Acura is trying to stir the souls of car enthusiasts by showing a non-functioning Acura NSX car to car people.
I could say the same to you.
#6917
Safety Car
But obviously they are riding on Trump's momentum in the political arena right now. No one would pay 288k for that thought
Also, just uploaded today.
NSX Launch Control demo:
#6918
Team Owner
A guy who has a very high taste for some very expensive cars likely isn't looking for or interested in a 25-60k sedan. I don't buy it. And I don't mean he has a few. Just recently he was auctioning of several millions of dollars worth of his collection. Maybe if they gave him a free one, but I haven't seen that either. Sorry.
I guess you missed the point where people were agreeing with me and not you
#6919
Team Owner
I know right. Not to mention it likely needs some very very deep/thorough intereior cleaning.....
But obviously they are riding on Trump's momentum in the political arena right now. No one would pay 288k for that thought
Also, just uploaded today.
NSX Launch Control demo:
TOV Video: 2017 Acura NSX Launch Control Demonstration - YouTube
But obviously they are riding on Trump's momentum in the political arena right now. No one would pay 288k for that thought
Also, just uploaded today.
NSX Launch Control demo:
TOV Video: 2017 Acura NSX Launch Control Demonstration - YouTube
#6920
So on a bored friday night...went through a "what's your profile" thread I found on NSX Prime to see a very rough idea of 1G NSX owners.
Omitted posters who do not currently own NSX (as of their posting time). And some oddities that seems a bit far fetched (ie, a guy who claims to be Asperger and unemployed with a garage list of 4 porsches owned and a Zanardi NSX...)
115 posts identified that claimed to own NSX and were not off-topic posts:
Average age of poster - 31.8 (median of 30)
Ages range from 20 to 64
88 with no kids
27 with 1 or more kids
52 were married (rest were single or engaged, few mentioned divorced)
Majority had at least Bachelor's degree
And now onto a quick breakdown of occupations (rough counts from my view of the excel data I created)
15 IT (engineer, software, systems admin, etc.)
6 non-IT engineers
13 manager type occupations
12 sales
9 small business owners
7 doctors
3 lawyers
couple of dentists
couple of executive types
couple of pilots (military)
couple of banker/finance
3-4 teacher/professor types (including an elementary principal)
and the rest were a smorgasboard of random things (film, audit, architect, etc.)
Aside from the highly variable incomes of business owners and executives...most of the jobs seem to be more upper middle class. Of course doctors/lawyers can also have fluctuating incomes and can vary quite a bit.
Of course the BIG confounder in this very non-scientific study is that many of the posters had older early to mid 90s NSX (the thread started in 2001, then revived in 04/05). Very few did I read where posters bought new/almost new cars during that time.
So this does not correlate well to the brand new buyer....which would have to be able to shell out 200k for a car instead of say 50-70k for a car...much diff segments.
I have attached the excel to this post for viewing pleasure.
Oh and this is the NSX Prime thread: http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showth...-of-NSX-Owners
Omitted posters who do not currently own NSX (as of their posting time). And some oddities that seems a bit far fetched (ie, a guy who claims to be Asperger and unemployed with a garage list of 4 porsches owned and a Zanardi NSX...)
115 posts identified that claimed to own NSX and were not off-topic posts:
Average age of poster - 31.8 (median of 30)
Ages range from 20 to 64
88 with no kids
27 with 1 or more kids
52 were married (rest were single or engaged, few mentioned divorced)
Majority had at least Bachelor's degree
And now onto a quick breakdown of occupations (rough counts from my view of the excel data I created)
15 IT (engineer, software, systems admin, etc.)
6 non-IT engineers
13 manager type occupations
12 sales
9 small business owners
7 doctors
3 lawyers
couple of dentists
couple of executive types
couple of pilots (military)
couple of banker/finance
3-4 teacher/professor types (including an elementary principal)
and the rest were a smorgasboard of random things (film, audit, architect, etc.)
Aside from the highly variable incomes of business owners and executives...most of the jobs seem to be more upper middle class. Of course doctors/lawyers can also have fluctuating incomes and can vary quite a bit.
Of course the BIG confounder in this very non-scientific study is that many of the posters had older early to mid 90s NSX (the thread started in 2001, then revived in 04/05). Very few did I read where posters bought new/almost new cars during that time.
So this does not correlate well to the brand new buyer....which would have to be able to shell out 200k for a car instead of say 50-70k for a car...much diff segments.
I have attached the excel to this post for viewing pleasure.
Oh and this is the NSX Prime thread: http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showth...-of-NSX-Owners