Acura: NSX News

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Old 01-13-2015, 11:57 AM
  #4841  
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci
ttribe's mo is he's always looking for an implied personal insult to defend.
he is welcome to take what I said as an implied personal insult.
Originally Posted by ttribe
Okay.

Oh, shut up.

Originally Posted by HDNBenjamin
I agree! It is a shame reading this thread and I see the same people hating, and going out of their way to find anything to be critical of, yet these folks cannot pony up the money to buy the new NSX or its competitors. I am extremely pleased with the new NSX, and I think Acura has done a great job executing not only the gorgeous styling, but also the technological hybrid drivetrain. I have, myself, been critical of Acura's poor executions in years past, but I must give credit where credit is due. Great job on the new NSX, and I look forward to new products from Acura, in hope of seeing the same brilliance displayed in the NSX on future models.
Yeah it is, and the main criticism seems to be that this car is "too late". BFD. Yes it took a long time to develop. So did the LFA. Nissan hasn't even done a successor to the Z32. We weren't even supposed to get a new NSX at one point. It was a miracle to even hear that they were pondering making a new one. The thing finally arrives, with specs well in line with the competition, and it's stricken down for being "too late". Come on people. It costs a lot. Guess what, the 1st gen NSX was knocking on $100k on it's way out, and this new model is right along the same performance and trim level as the R8 V10. I won't remind you how much that car costs.
Originally Posted by Yumcha
No one has "hated" on the car per se. Just griping that Honda sure could've stopped being so tongue-in-cheek with the car's specifications?

That's not hating.

No one is saying this car sucks. No idea where srika, you and others are perceiving that in today's reveal.
Once again, you are latching on to a specific word and giving it far too much weight. The overall sentiment on the car is clear. Here we have a FIVE HUNDRED FIFTY HORSEPOWER ACURA - say it with me - and it's being shunned. Oh shoot, I dropped another "word" that will likely strike a nerve.
Originally Posted by Rockstar21
oh.... so its like dividing 0
Having some lovely interplay in here. I personally don't mind it. We've got something to talk about.

I'm not asking anyone to kiss the car's ass, I'm just asking you take a step back, look at the bigger picture, and appreciate what Acura has done here. That's it. #dropsthemic
Old 01-13-2015, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by srika
he is welcome to take what I said as an implied personal insult.



Yeah it is, and the main criticism seems to be that this car is "too late". BFD. Yes it took a long time to develop. So did the LFA. Nissan hasn't even done a successor to the Z32. We weren't even supposed to get a new NSX at one point. It was a miracle to even hear that they were pondering making a new one. The thing finally arrives, with specs well in line with the competition, and it's stricken down for being "too late". Come on people. It costs a lot. Guess what, the 1st gen NSX was knocking on $100k on it's way out, and this new model is right along the same performance and trim level as the R8 V10. I won't remind you how much that car costs.

Once again, you are latching on to a specific word and giving it far too much weight. The overall sentiment on the car is clear. Here we have a FIVE HUNDRED FIFTY HORSEPOWER ACURA - say it with me - and it's being shunned. Oh shoot, I dropped another "word" that will likely strike a nerve.

Having some lovely interplay in here. I personally don't mind it. We've got something to talk about.

I'm not asking anyone to kiss the car's ass, I'm just asking you take a step back, look at the bigger picture, and appreciate what Acura has done here. That's it. #dropsthemic
#dropsmypants


What word am I supposed to latch onto? I still like cement the most.



But, seriously, you are not reading the comments. None of the "cemented" haters in here are hating on the 550HP+ numbers Honda has alluded to. The condition is that if the car's curb weight is heavy, well, 550HP is not going to be all that peachy given the competition Detroit, Germany, and etc. have released to-date is it?

Old 01-13-2015, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by srika
he is welcome to take what I said as an implied personal insult.
[sigh] Not interested.
Old 01-13-2015, 12:33 PM
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If there was no Ferrari-beating NSX that was released a couple decades ago, I'm sure there would be more of the rah-rah love srika demands of us.

If there was not 7+ years of prototyping and hinting at the return of the legendary car, I'm sure there would be more of the rah-rah love sriak demands of us.


But, no. We all know what the original NSX stood for. Honda decided to retain that namesake (okay, then, it better be good because we're now setting expectations with the name, NSX because everyone knows what it was like) and tells us it is going to combat some pretty impressive cars.

Everyone in here knows the numbers/figures for the competition Honda has named. So...we now get a reveal with updated looks, and cagey ducking around performance numbers on a car that has alot to live up to namesake-wise and has been in development since forever. Add in a nice bonfire in Germany to go with it.

So, farking yes...there is going to be some "cemented" cautionary optimism and yeah, call it "hate" from the cynics in here.




We good?
Old 01-13-2015, 12:35 PM
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#dropsmymanbra
Old 01-13-2015, 12:37 PM
  #4846  
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Originally Posted by Yumcha
If there was no Ferrari-beating NSX that was released a couple decades ago, I'm sure there would be more of the rah-rah love srika demands of us.

If there was not 7+ years of prototyping and hinting at the return of the legendary car, I'm sure there would be more of the rah-rah love sriak demands of us.


But, no. We all know what the original NSX stood for. Honda decided to retain that namesake (okay, then, it better be good because we're now setting expectations with the name, NSX because everyone knows what it was like) and tells us it is going to combat some pretty impressive cars.

Everyone in here knows the numbers/figures for the competition Honda has named. So...we now get a reveal with updated looks, and cagey ducking around performance numbers on a car that has alot to live up to namesake-wise and has been in development since forever. Add in a nice bonfire in Germany to go with it.

So, farking yes...there is going to be some "cemented" cautionary optimism and yeah, call it "hate" from the cynics in here.




We good?
Don't forget getting upstaged on reveal day by Ford.
Old 01-13-2015, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ttribe
Don't forget getting upstaged on reveal day by Ford.
That didn't happen, but okay.
Old 01-13-2015, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kurtatx
That didn't happen, but okay.
I agree. I have zero interest in the GT and personally, I think it looks like a 3 year old with wax crayons designed it.

The GT gets a lot of love, but there's so little of them around that I find it hard to care about that car. Plus, from what I could tell, there wasn't anything revolutionary about the new GT, like there is with the NSX.
Old 01-13-2015, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kurtatx
That didn't happen, but okay.
No one has "declared" it officially. But, it is something some people perceive...and perception is sometimes reality, right?

The last Ford GT was in 2006...it took less years for Ford to bring this halo car back and with less press.

Be honest now, how many really heard much hype about the Ford GT's return? Was the GT marketed in a movie in 2012 like the NSX? Was there multiple concepts released...revival...death...revival again...? Ford went relatively under the radar and brought out a car to general applause.

At least that's how I look at it.
Old 01-13-2015, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kurtatx
That didn't happen, but okay.
I'm curious what you mean by that? Do you mean, in your opinion that didn't happen or that I don't have my facts straight?

Perhaps I am being unduly influenced by the e-mail I received from MotorTrend this morning with the headline - "Return of the Ford GT: 600+ hp Blows Up the Detroit Auto Show", but it seems the Ford GT dominated the show "buzz" more than any other car, including the NSX.
Old 01-13-2015, 12:54 PM
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When you over hype something before its release date, it doesn't matter if it is good or bad, the final product will lose a lot of its excitement.

That is the truth for movies, electronics and especially in cars.

i think that is the case for NSX. If it was released 2-3 years ago, the reactions would be a lot different.
Old 01-13-2015, 01:01 PM
  #4852  
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Blue looks good


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Old 01-13-2015, 01:04 PM
  #4853  
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^ THAT looks effin' awesome.
Old 01-13-2015, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ttribe
I'm curious what you mean by that? Do you mean, in your opinion that didn't happen or that I don't have my facts straight?

Perhaps I am being unduly influenced by the e-mail I received from MotorTrend this morning with the headline - "Return of the Ford GT: 600+ hp Blows Up the Detroit Auto Show", but it seems the Ford GT dominated the show "buzz" more than any other car, including the NSX.
Motor Trend and C&D have both on their respective front pages. This is such a stupid argument.

This board was expecting the GT to be the only headline. It's not.
Old 01-13-2015, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Joneill44
Blue looks good


No argument there. ZIP. I think the car looks good.
Old 01-13-2015, 01:09 PM
  #4856  
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Originally Posted by kurtatx
Motor Trend and C&D have both on their respective front pages. This is such a stupid argument.

This board was expecting the GT to be the only headline. It's not.
Okay, well, I was just trying to understand where you are coming from. I know you, personally, didn't care for the GT and that's one thing. I believe I am talking about something quite different - namely, the general public's and media's reaction to the reveal of the GT compared to other cars on the same day. That's what I meant by "upstaged."
Old 01-13-2015, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ttribe
Okay, well, I was just trying to understand where you are coming from. I know you, personally, didn't care for the GT and that's one thing. I believe I am talking about something quite different - namely, the general public's and media's reaction to the reveal of the GT compared to other cars on the same day. That's what I meant by "upstaged."
Meh... that's because the general public eats, shits and loves Ford, through and through.

That's the same general public that likely doesn't even know what Acura is.

'MURICA!!!
Old 01-13-2015, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Yumcha
No argument there. ZIP. I think the car looks good.
Electron Blue Pearl
Old 01-13-2015, 01:17 PM
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white!! always white!!
Old 01-13-2015, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
white!! always white!!
I think those "fangs" on the front grill will pop nicely in white, with the black mesh grill surrounding them. A friend of mine is a salesman at one of the Acura dealers in town... He already has an '08 Honda S2000 CR in white, '05 NSX in Silver, and is now looking at getting the new NSX in white.

No idea how he affords such nice cars. So jelly...
Old 01-13-2015, 01:39 PM
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that blue looks amazing
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Old 01-13-2015, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Joneill44
Blue looks good
wow, that looks freaking fantastic!
Old 01-13-2015, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
white!! always white!!
To climb that corporate ladder, tis true.









Wait...how wacist was that?
Old 01-13-2015, 02:53 PM
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wacist or not, that is the reality.

White is always Right... but we got the #s.
Old 01-13-2015, 03:22 PM
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Starting at $150k... gheez I am going have to wait 20yrs and pick up a used one.
Old 01-13-2015, 04:08 PM
  #4866  
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Old 01-13-2015, 04:42 PM
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Press release...

Acura takes the wraps off its highly anticipated next-generation NSX supercar, designed to deliver a groundbreaking "New Sports eXperience"

Twenty-five years after the debut of the original, paradigm-shifting NSX supercar, Acura revealed the production version of its highly anticipated successor—the next-generation Acura NSX, developed and produced in the U.S.—to the world's auto media at the 2015 North American International Auto Show today. The production model, in a scintillating NSX Red finish, took the stage with a growl from its twin-turbocharged engine.

The next generation NSX showcases the production styling, design and specifications of Acura's mid-engine sports hybrid supercar, and Acura announced key details of the all-new vehicle's design and performance. The company will begin accepting custom orders for the new NSX starting in the summer, with customer deliveries expected later in the year.

Specifically created to bring a "new sports experience" to the supercar segment, the NSX challenges conventional beliefs about supercars — much as the first generation did a quarter century ago. The approach is realized through an all-new power unit—a twin-turbocharged 75-degree DOHC V6 engine with a 9-speed dual clutch transmission (DCT) and three-electric motor Sport Hybrid system—integrated with an ultra-rigid and lightweight multi-material body with world's-first material applications and manufacturing processes. Developed under the concept of a "human-centered supercar,” a car that puts the driver first in every aspect of its design, the next-generation NSX will leverage its state-of-the-art hybrid supercar power unit, body and chassis to deliver exceptionally intuitive and immediate response to driver inputs.

"Our commitment was to create an all-new NSX that is true to the heritage of NSX—a supercar that delivers a new driving experience, one where every part of the vehicle is respectful of the smartest part of the car, the driver," said Mike Accavitti, senior vice president and general manager of the Acura division. "The soul of a car is the emotional connection it makes with the driver. With the NSX, that connection will be intense and immediate."

As the pinnacle representation of Acura performance and prestige, the NSX was introduced at the auto show under the theme of "Precision Crafted Performance." The theme was the original tagline for the Acura brand, a guiding force behind the development of the original NSX and a critical component of its launch.

The development of next-generation NSX, driven by precision crafted performance, has resulted in a clean-sheet design, which involved nearly three years of intensive development effort by a global design and engineering team led by engineers at the company's development center in Raymond, Ohio.

"The NSX reflects Acura's American roots and makes a powerful statement about the strong role being played by our North American operations in envisioning and building the future of Acura," said Erik Berkman, executive vice president of the Acura Business Planning Office.

"Our global team embraced the challenge to create a new sports car experience, leveraging new technology to deliver incredibly vivid performance in a vehicle that responds intuitively and immediately to the will of the driver," said Ted Klaus, chief engineer and global development leader of the new NSX. "The NSX delivers pinnacle supercar performance, with zero-delay acceleration and exhilarating, confidence-inspiring driving dynamics."

Interwoven Dynamic Exterior Design

"The new NSX is a product of what we term 'Interwoven Dynamic' design," said Michelle Christensen, NSX exterior design project leader. "It represents the ideal blending of exotic sports car form and supercar function."

The NSX body features classic low and wide proportions married to modern and alluring surfacing, an aggressive front design, and tail lights that pays homage to the original NSX. The signature side intake and floating C-pillar collects air to feed the mid-mounted engine and directs airflow over the rear deck to increase downforce. To accommodate the new longitudinally mounted twin-turbo V6 and 9-speed DCT, the production vehicle was lengthened (+3 inches) and widened (+1 inch) with a slightly more cab-forward package, compared with the proportions of the NSX Concept shown in 2012.

Every element of the exterior body design has been carefully fashioned for total airflow management for both stability-enhancing downforce and vehicle systems cooling. The NSX has undergone extensive testing at the company's state-of-the-art wind tunnel in Raymond, Ohio, leading to a number of significant changes from concept to final body design, including modified hood vents, new front fender vents, modified side air intakes, and an optimized deck spoiler.

Human Support Cockpit

"Consistent with the 'human-centered supercar' development concept, the NSX was designed from the inside out with an uncompromising focus on the driver," said Johnathan Norman, NSX interior design project leader. "Like the original NSX, we created a 'Human Support Cockpit' that provides exceptional driver control, visibility and packaging, but further advanced to meet the extreme performance expectations of a modern supercar."

The NSX interior boasts exceptional forward visibility, simple and intuitive controls, and class-leading ergonomics—most notably the seat, which features top-class holding performance with outstanding comfort and easy ingress/egress.

The NSX's instrument cluster features a dynamic TFT display that responds to changes in the driver-selectable Integrated Dynamics System with pertinent graphics and information. The center console holds the Power button that readies the sport hybrid powertrain, nested in the center of the new Integrated Dynamics System dial control. Interwoven under the handcrafted leather dash panel is the exposed midframe—a functioning chassis structural member that reflects the design aesthetic of a naked sport bike. An ultra-thin, yet super strong A-pillar design and low-mounted instrument panel minimize obstructions to the driver's view of the road.

Sport Hybrid Power Unit

In keeping with the foundational philosophy of the original NSX, the next-generation NSX is designed to provide a new sports car experience that maximizes the capabilities of the driver, delivering exceptionally intuitive and confidence-inspiring response "at the will of the driver."

Acura engineers leveraged the company's expertise both with high-performance engine and hybrid electric-drive technologies, as well as its two decades of experience with industry-leading dynamic torque-vectoring technologies, including Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD), to create the most sophisticated, technologically advanced and intelligent powertrain in the supercar universe.

At the heart of the NSX's performance capabilities is an all-new mid-mounted, 75-degree, DOHC V6 engine with twin turbochargers mated to an Acura-developed 9-speed DCT. The V6 engine employs a race-inspired compact valve train and dry sump lubrication system to help lower the center of gravity. The all-new 9-speed DCT delivers synapse-quick gear changes and rev-matching downshifts. The rear direct-drive electric motor, housed between the engine and transmission, supports acceleration, braking and transmission shifting performance. The NSX's front wheels are driven by twin independent high-output electric motors which deliver instantaneous torque response and dynamic left-to-right torque distribution.

The NSX uses its front electric motors for dynamic torque vectoring in addition to enhancing acceleration and braking performance. The result is an instantaneous "zero delay" launch performance and handling response that seems to anticipate the driver's desire. The NSX has undergone extensive testing at some of the world's most challenging race circuits, including the famed Nurburgring.

Advanced Multi-Material Body

Also in keeping with the legacy of NSX—the world’s first all-aluminum supercar—the new NSX features an innovative new multi-material body design with world's-first material applications and construction processes.

The NSX body utilizes a space frame design—an internal frame constructed of aluminum, ultra-high strength steel and other advanced materials. Anchored by a carbon fiber floor, torsional and bending forces are taken up entirely by this ultra-rigid structure which also utilizes advanced joining technologies.

The NSX features world's-first casting technology that combines the design and manufacturing flexibility of a casting process with the strength and elongation properties of a forged material, enabling significant weight reduction. The body panels are composed of a combination of aluminum and sheet molding composite (SMC).

Advanced Sport Package

The NSX features an "Advanced Sports Package" with placement of key powertrain components –the mid-mounted engine, twin front motors and Sport Hybrid battery pack and power control unit – optimized to concentrate vehicle mass low and toward the center of the vehicle, to further enhance dynamic response. The combination of this packaging concept and the lightweight body give the NSX the lowest center of gravity in its class.

The NSX utilizes a fully independent, all-aluminum front and rear suspension and puts its considerable power down through ContiSportContact™ high-performance tires—245/35Z R19 front and 295/30Z R20 rear—mounted on 19x8.5 inch front and 20x11 inch rear aluminum alloy wheels. Powerful, natural and confident braking performance is provided by 6-piston front and 4-piston rear monoblock calipers squeezing ultra-high performance carbon-ceramic brake discs.

Handling is greatly enhanced by Sport Hybrid Super-Handling All Wheel Drive (Sport Hybrid SH-AWD), enabling lightning-quick response to all driver inputs—steering, braking and throttle—along with the stability, control and launch performance of all-wheel drive. Agile Handling Assist (AHA) uses the subtle application of brake torque to further enhance yaw response and dynamic stability.

The NSX's dial-operated Integrated Dynamic System features Quiet, Sport, Sport+ and Track modes. The system adjusts engine, motor, transmission and chassis response, as well as the engine sound level, based on the needs of the driver and driving environment. Quiet mode enables electric-only driving at lower speeds for short durations. Dynamic vehicle responses become increasingly sharp as the driver moves from Sport to Sport+ mode and, finally, to Track mode, where the NSX reveals the full spectrum of its performance capabilities.

The NSX also features a "launch" function to achieve the ultimate in "zero delay" launch performance, aided by both the engine and three electric motors.

New Production Facility

The NSX will be manufactured exclusively at the Performance Manufacturing Center (PMC) in Marysville, Ohio, where approximately 100 highly-skilled associates will conduct full body construction, paint, and final assembly using domestic and globally-sourced parts.

The PMC and its processes have been developed to perfectly blend associate craftsmanship and technology in a new approach to manufacturing. By in-housing the body construction, Acura maintains complete control over total body quality, including critical strength, suspension accuracy, and fit and finish—from initial construction all the way to final assembly.

Associates will utilize innovative techniques to deliver next-generation craftsmanship and world-class quality in the realm of specialized, supercar vehicle production.
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Old 01-13-2015, 05:46 PM
  #4868  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
When you over hype something before its release date, it doesn't matter if it is good or bad, the final product will lose a lot of its excitement.

That is the truth for movies, electronics and especially in cars.

i think that is the case for NSX. If it was released 2-3 years ago, the reactions would be a lot different.
Exactly! I said this a few months ago in this thread! They never should have released a concept so early. It dulled everyone's reaction. We already talked about it and knew what was coming. No surprises and only disappointment.

The fact that Ford kept the GT under wraps until about a month or so ago was amazing. So when it rolled out yesterday, BOOM! Show's over!

Honda's reaction was probably this...
Old 01-13-2015, 05:55 PM
  #4869  
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
I agree. I have zero interest in the GT and personally, I think it looks like a 3 year old with wax crayons designed it.
This.

The GT gets a lot of love, but there's so little of them around that I find it hard to care about that car. Plus, from what I could tell, there wasn't anything revolutionary about the new GT, like there is with the NSX.
And this.
Old 01-13-2015, 06:25 PM
  #4870  
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Originally Posted by Yumcha
If there was no Ferrari-beating NSX that was released a couple decades ago, I'm sure there would be more of the rah-rah love srika demands of us.

If there was not 7+ years of prototyping and hinting at the return of the legendary car, I'm sure there would be more of the rah-rah love sriak demands of us.


But, no. We all know what the original NSX stood for. Honda decided to retain that namesake (okay, then, it better be good because we're now setting expectations with the name, NSX because everyone knows what it was like) and tells us it is going to combat some pretty impressive cars.

Everyone in here knows the numbers/figures for the competition Honda has named. So...we now get a reveal with updated looks, and cagey ducking around performance numbers on a car that has alot to live up to namesake-wise and has been in development since forever. Add in a nice bonfire in Germany to go with it.

So, farking yes...there is going to be some "cemented" cautionary optimism and yeah, call it "hate" from the cynics in here.




We good?
Originally Posted by savage
Exactly! I said this a few months ago in this thread! They never should have released a concept so early. It dulled everyone's reaction. We already talked about it and knew what was coming. No surprises and only disappointment.

The fact that Ford kept the GT under wraps until about a month or so ago was amazing. So when it rolled out yesterday, BOOM! Show's over!

Honda's reaction was probably this...
The NSX was first announced in late 2011, and shown in 2012. Anything before was not a NSX. The Advanced Sport Car Concept and subsequently HSV were scrapped. Those were the V10 FR GT coupe, not exactly a mid-engine machine.

Lexus took about 10 years for the LFA too. The first concept was shown in 2005, and the actual production model wasn't shown until 2009.

What's considered as heavy for the NSX?

911 Turbo S is at 3588lb, has 560hp, and AWD:
2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S Tested ? Review ? Car and Driver

0-60mph: 2.6s
1/4 mile: 10.8s@126mph
Price: USD$180k+

The NSX looks to have about the same specs as the above. Would those performance numbers be enough for a $150k car?
Old 01-13-2015, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
The NSX was first announced in late 2011, and shown in 2012. Anything before was not a NSX. The Advanced Sport Car Concept and subsequently HSV were scrapped. Those were the V10 FR GT coupe, not exactly a mid-engine machine.

Lexus took about 10 years for the LFA too. The first concept was shown in 2005, and the actual production model wasn't shown until 2009.

What's considered as heavy for the NSX?

911 Turbo S is at 3588lb, has 560hp, and AWD:
2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S Tested ? Review ? Car and Driver

0-60mph: 2.6s
1/4 mile: 10.8s@126mph
Price: USD$180k+

The NSX looks to have about the same specs as the above. Would those performance numbers be enough for a $150k car?
i think you skipped a lot of the dramas in between.
Old 01-13-2015, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Joneill44
Blue looks good



Be still, my beating heart...




Sooo about that Mega Millions drawing tonight...
Old 01-13-2015, 11:56 PM
  #4873  
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Slightly off topic, but I really hope this is the new corporate face for upcoming models. I like that they moved Caliper Logo off of the shield and onto the hood. I also like that the plenum is minimized and that the cutoff from the hood is now level with the headlights. Also they nailed the proportions perfectly for a mid engined car. The rear overhang is nice and short and the snout is nice and low.
Old 01-14-2015, 03:46 AM
  #4874  
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It looks great, now if we can only get some real specs and a test drive!
Old 01-14-2015, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by C8N
Starting at $150k... gheez I am going have to wait 20yrs and pick up a used one.
call me a downer.. but something tells me this futuristic hybrid supercar stuff isn't gonna stand the test of time... not initially.

im very curious to see how these things hold up even after 10 years. (somebody who actually drives theirs of course)
Old 01-14-2015, 07:53 AM
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I'm underwhelmed
Old 01-14-2015, 09:05 AM
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Will the NSX sell more than the RLX?
Old 01-14-2015, 09:54 AM
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Haha I think they left out the original 4G TL Not sure why but I think that's hilarious.
Old 01-14-2015, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
i think you skipped a lot of the dramas in between.
This.
The following users liked this post:
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Old 01-14-2015, 10:33 AM
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Haters gonna hate.


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