phile

LOL I was going to say the same thing, the Integra, at that time, for what it was, was a great car.

the more i look at this, the more I like it. Acura finally nailed a grille that works - bold, yet sophisticated - and the body work is pretty nice. my only gripe is that the front overhang is a tad long, but that cant be helped due to it being FWD.

i might have to get one of these Acura Civics at some point in my life now...

SSFTSX

I dont know how much ILX will weigh compared to Civic Si. but it will be heavier than Civic SI.
There is only 0.6 sec difference 0-60 mph difference between Civic Si and TSX 6MT. Put summer performance tires on TSX and that difference is nearly eliminated. that despite 20% weight difference between the two.





Civic by itself not a very competent platform. Honda has been trying to load Civic with RL technology in 2013 Euro Civic version but failed in comfort/drive factor.

CarbonGray Earl

Link: http://www.stangbangers.com/98_Conto...on_Article.htm

Anyone remember this article? "Four-door Party Animals." An Acura Civic (Integra) came in 2nd to an A4 1.8t that cost 4k more in 1997.

Having owned the previous Acura Civic, I don't think its a bad thing to base a car off of a Civic platform.

Of course, back then, the internet wasn't as raging nor was the Civic the cheapo it is now. But I'm merely pointing out that an Acura Civic is neither unprecedented nor a bad proposition.

Ken1997TL

@ ssftsx

Such non-sense. I might have to put you on ignore. Congratulations, thats a first in almost 9 years I've been here.

KillerG

cmon ken, havent you seen the 2013 Euro Civic RL ?

psteng19

The 2.4L in the TSX compares quite well to the 2.5L, 2.0T engines from the competitors. Especially with the 6MT.
Put that in a lighter body and I think it will do just fine, performance wise.

F23A4

There are some posters on Azine that aren't egregious enough to ban (or even warn) so, my eyes tend to automatically bounce over their posts. Such is the case with *.

dom

Don't think we can Ken. I've tried.

Ken1997TL

I did it under 'user settings'

It'll show that he's posted something but hides the body of the message.

ttribe

I agree with the gist of what you are saying with one caution - let's not mistake hyperbole for ignorance.

VTEC Racer

Isn't the A4 based on the Jetta platform?

AZuser

You know, it'd be so much easier to just bust an Invisible on him.


Just saying.... :wink:

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

fking

he needs to go imo.

knavinusa

No - the B5 A4/S4/RS4 was released before the Passat which it shares a platform with. It was the A3 that shared one with the Jetta as well as a number of other VW group cars. The point is, platform sharing can go either way: a cheaper car shares one with a more expensive car, or vice versa.

dom

dom

So what's going to happen to all those 4 cylinder TSX owners with an AT (which are 90% of TSX owners??) when it comes time to replace their cars? They either settle for an ILX with a likely anemic 2.0L (downgrade), learn to drive a stick to get the 2.4? or upgrade to a TL?

Seems to me that they didn't entirely think this through by keeping the 2.4 MT only.

mrstak

iTrader: (1)

I'm thinking within a year or two or the ILX coming out, they'll probably release more versions of it. So if they do weed out the TSX in a year or two, they'll release more transmission types for the ILX to make up for the loss of the TSX. Or maybe they'll come out with a TLX (tsx/tl) with different engines/trannies and lower the price. Pretty sure they're going to wait to see how well the ILX does and then decide where else to take it.

CarbonGray Earl

<---- This 5at owner wants to go BACK to MT, but is afraid of the price premium they're going to put on the rare ILX 6mt.

Not to mention, they'll force you to get the tech package, which I don't need (Satnav get obsolete quick).

I'll say that I'd have a tough time not getting a Mazdaspeed 3 instead....

KillerG

As a current 4 cylinder TSX owner, I have been thinking about moving into the new NSX when it comes out, it will probably be automatic so my wife can drive it and the hybrid will be good for the environment

dom

Now if only they can get every other TSX owner to think the same way.

dom

Its a valid point. But a bit backwards if that's the case. Why give a customer a reason to jump ship? You should have all their needs covered from Day 1, not react on day 2 and lose sales. Offer up more choices from day 1 and then cut back if need be. The way I see it, when the TSX is gone (and it is gone folks, Vicki Poponi confirmed it) Acura has a gap in their lineup. They're presuming the majority of people will settle for a anemic 2.0L. I just don't see that happening.

ttribe

I'm thinking you are unique in making the jump from TSX to NSX. The more natural progression would be TSX--->TL, etc.

dom

F458 has an AT too. And you don't have to wait 3 years for it to maybe show up.

Then again the waiting list is probably 3 years so scratch that.

SSFTSX

Next Honda Accord that will be smaller will be better choice than ILX. 2.4L DI and V6 (That V6 will be faster and more fuel efficient than 4 cylinder 6MT ILX). no need for premium fuel.
Unless Honda Accord dont get Smart access, HDD navigation, multi-view camera. and with lower Honda prices people can afford HFP package. for differentiation.
I dont believe in NSX in 3 years. You cannot run a premium brand on such small sale volume for too long.

dom

^

spdandpwr

I don't understand, why would I want to go from Acura to Honda, to many people, that's a downgrade despite the similarities.

Ken1997TL

We sold our RL and replaced it with a Honda CR-Z

spdandpwr

Lol, you're an outlier :hides:

mrstak

iTrader: (1)

I'm with you on that end. I think its better to have a variety of options for the customers right off the bat but I think that Acura/Honda is playing it super safe and conservative doing it this way. Like gauging interest, then if it sells well, they can offer more options. Instead of maybe offering 4 or 5 different trims, only to have 3 sell well and 2 being a "waste" so to speak.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I would have loved to go from my 3G TL to a brand new S2000 two years ago.

SSFTSX

Acura and Honda are now much closer. Deletion of SH-AWD of RDX starting point. introducing 6 speed Auto in Accord. while maintaining 5speed auto in Acura is another. both are FWD sedans. I would say people will start jumping ship if there is not enough differentiation.

In other markets USDM Accord does have HID. and navigation is HDD. see difference.







You will not get this kind of telematics in VW Jetta/Passat & seletable ride settings with AWD. what you will get in the lowest A3 sedan. This is clear differentiation among the brands.

CarbonGray Earl

^^I wonder if we are on his internal ignore list and he's just writing stuff to see his own words.

Colin

While I suffer no delusions that the 2 L will probably be a little underpowered, no power output figures have been confirmed yet. If they somehow manage to squeeze 160 hp out of the 2 L (like the base RSX), and keep the weight in the 2800 pound range (like the base RSX) it might prove to be an acceptable performer. And as always (for me) it's not about "what it is" it's about "what it is ... for the money"

I too scratch my head at the exclusion of an automatic transmission for the 2.4 L motor, simultaneously wondering about the lack of a manual transmission for the smaller motors. However, I already see no less than six trim levels on this car and adding transmission choices will only increase the complexity exponentially. So, hopefully they get this car out of the gate and selling well and in 2014 when there is no TSX anymore, they can add an automatic transmission to the 2.4 L. Who knows, maybe by this time they'll be ready with some of the new Earth Dreams technology (do you want to bet this is what they're waiting for?)

ttribe

It's a good thing the vents and the navi screens were in the "right" places in his pictures though.

CarbonGray Earl

The question really is, will this 2.0 liter (which I'm guessing is the intended best seller) will be enough motor and transmission for the demographic they are aiming it at.

Are the majority of gen Y kids not as cognizant of HP and more concerned with FE? Without know much about the tech that comes with the trim levels, what buttons does this press for the intended target?

Given that this is going to be in that family sedan price range, I wonder if this car differentiates itself enough in design, lux, tech, and yes, is a 2.0 liter engine/5AT enough to compete. Its hard for me to believe this'll be quick or even fun to drive with the current honda 2.0 liter engines.

Colin

Personally, I think there are going to be two intended targets although you only market directly to one of them. I think the "problem" with older forums like this one is that most of the members no longer remember what it was like to have to scrape together a $250 monthly payment. Most of the long time members here are well past that "experience" so it might be helpful to think back to what it was like when you were 18 or 19 years old and, yeah, you wanted a BMW 325i but an Integra was all you could afford.

When it comes to marketing, I say "never believe it". Marketing is about fostering an image and you market the car to each person's own self image. For example, you don't sell Honda Elements to aging baby boomers by telling them how many Costco sized packages of Depends you can fit in the back. You sell it to them by showing them the active lifestyle that they perceive they lead (remember, baby boomers don't think of themselves as "old").

With this in mind, I think that there is a second market for this car (as with the TSX) for older customers who have had all the fun cars they want, and now want something smaller, that's easier to park, that's good on gas. But, they don't want to drive something as "pedestrian" as a Corolla or a Civic. So I think this car will end up excluding buyers who are on an "upward earning trajectory" and appeal to people on either side of that demographic.

dom

I'm sure we'll see the ED 2.0L with the CVT when its ready to replace the current 2.0 and 5AT. Or will Acura decide the CVT isn't worthy of a lux brand? any other lux brand offer a CVT?

Let us know how things play out in the showroom when it comes to the ILX. Should be interesting, I have no doubt you're going to make many new (not current TSX or Acura owners) customers with that car. and the RDX IMO will sell far better than the previous gen. So you should be a busy man comes Spring/Summer.

dom

Its going to sell. Wife's lease is up next June. Definitely be test driving one.

SSFTSX

I dont see anywhere Honda is going to use 6speed auto with 4cylinder if CVT is introduced in Accord and Civic stays 5speed Auto.
ILX is as wide as Honda Accord with big wheel wells. It requires 17inch as base wheels. Wide frontal, underpowered engine with 5speed auto is surely not going to win fuel economy.

Infamous425

the RSX debuted with a 2.0 and 160hp or 200hp. that was 10 yrs ago. i hope this new 2.0 is an improvement.