Sarlacc

boring...snorrrre....could care less.

So acura is showing 2 concepts and a redesigned rdx as their big news? They have lost it.
And to hear their big plan is release a luxury civic and cut out the TSX...probably the one decent looking sedan they have?

Sounds more like they are cost cutting to survive.

Frankly, they lost me long ago...this just further cements it.

And based on what I've seen from Buick...especially at this years auto show...oh yeah, they are the potential contender who will sneak up and bite everyone in the ass.

KillerG

I dont see how the introduction of new engines, new transmissions, and a new halo car qualify as cost cutting,

but i guess if you wanted to remain wholly biased and fanboyish, then yes, snore indeed, Acura will be very boring at this years NAIAS.


^ you must be super excited about the dodge dart though

Sarlacc

Really...how am I being biased? faboy-ish? I own a Toyota, a Honda, and a Dodge...and I just praised Buick in my last post.

If you can't see how this might be seen as cost cutting then your proving to be as dumb as your posts. You have a North American built Civic/CSX vs a Japanese built and imported TSX...

Which do you honestly think will be less expensive to manufacture and sell in the North American market?

And an entry level luxury car is not a halo car...a halo car is the RL, a Lexus LS460, a BMW 750....This is a entry level luxury sedan meant to be a bread butter car ala civic/accord. Its meant to generate sales and brand recognition, there is nothing Halo about it.

As for my opinions on the dart...they can be found in the dart thread.

Now, would you like to continue sounding like a complete moron? Or attempt an actual conversation?

KillerG

ok, lol, and you are gonna ignore everything else i said?

the halo car i was talking about was the NSX.

It seems like Acura is doing a lot more than just cost cutting. If they were cost cutting we wouldnt be seeing a reworking of the lineup, new engines, a new sports car, and new transmissions. If you want to pick out a very specific area where you think they are cost cutting (ie: moving to a smaller platform for the entry level ILX) then you arent looking at the whole picture. For the record, also, their entire strategy isnt clear at this point, and the death of the TSX and the future of the TL hasnt been wholly confirmed.

And using the civic platform doesnt mean we are getting a CSX. The ILX has already been spied and its been noted to look nothing like a civic by TOV, so we really dont know anything about the car except the available engines and by the dimensions it most likely rides on the civic platform, and since you hang out on azine you must also know that platform sharing =/= the same car. I understand that Acura might have rubbed some people the wrong way by rebranding the civic into the CSX in the past in Canada but understand that that's not whats happening here. We are getting a new car with new sheetmetal, etc.

If Acura really WAS cost cutting we would see an extension of all the current product's lifestyles and some more minor refreshes out of each model as their "big" news.

The coming reveals of the new concepts are the biggest things to come out of Acura in YEARS

I dont really care how many makes of car you own or have owned, but unless you are willing to take everything into account instead of just picking out two small points (us based manufacturing and the civic platform... oh no!) then you are pretty much just another over-opinionated anti acura fanboy


sometimes when i read your posts i cant tell if you are a master troll or kind of retarded =/

Allen-

I think this approach is sensible.

The lack of execution lately worrys me a bit. And if the TSX is to compete with the 3, C, G, and A4, unless it gets SH-AWD, I don't think it will ever get respect among a RWD/AWD class.

Same thing with TL. I bet they will leave a FWD version for the ES350, LaCrosse, Maxima, and the upcoming Hyundai Azera is looking pretty impressive too. They will probably try to position the SH-AWD as competitive among GS, M, A6, XF, and E-Class.

The RL better get serious if it is going to take on the A8, S, LS, XJ, and 7-Series.

Allen-

And while we're at it, does anyone even like the name ILX?

Surely they will change it to something more in line with the rest lineup? If they are indeed killing the TSX, now would be a good time to give it a *L name to go along with RL & TL.

Sarlacc

And there it is...going right over your head.

New sheet metal or not...its going to cost less in the long run to use North American factories already making CSX's and Civics and retool them for the new ILX.

This also opens up the factory in Japan currently making the TSX/Euro Accord to make more Japanese/Euro based models with less cargo shipping costs and tariffs.

There is a lot more to making money than model sales.

Acura's entire plan is probably wholly unclear...but much like their company has been over the last several years...they seeming have real direction.

Acura was a company that had EVERYTHING going for them and someone post their way and their it out the window.

Rather than carve our their own identity they stuck too close to their honda roots. And right when they were back in the up and coming they shot themselves in the foot with horrendous styling with the introduction of their beak...followed by the bloated 4th gen TL.

Acura is a company trying to find its way again...and I'm not confident that they will. Much in the same way I see Honda and Toyota resting on their laurels and thinking they are untouchable. They are starting to fall.

I'm more interested in seeing what the Koreans and Americans are coming up with these days.

Master Troll, retarded, whatever it boils down to, its very apparent I still know more than you.

Sarlacc

The switch to a generic alphanumeric naming system ala their luxury rivals was a huge mistake on Acuras part, imo.

The Legend still has brand presence. People remember it...they know it. Same with the intergra.

Most people have no clue what a CL is, or barely remember the RSX...just forgettable letters.

KillerG

Are you actually reading my posts or just having an internal monologue with yourself?

Companies find ways to cut costs and increase profits all the time, it doesnt necessarily mean that it will instantly beget a shittier car. C-class production is out of south africa now, and BMW runs a massive factory out of georgia. Subaru and BRZ developed a car together to save costs and combine their respective strengths. Cost Cutting. Oh No.

So still, you are going to completely ignore everything else they are spending money on and introducing brand new, which ive listed multiple times, and only focus on the fact that the new ILX will be cheaper to produce here, and use that as the basis for your statement that Acura is clearly cost cutting? Should i put stuff in bullet points for you so its easier to read?

Why not respond the the actual discussion instead of making up another one and acting like you know what you are talking about

KillerG

^ also, it was a large mistake for them to switch to their current naming system, that is a valid point and they most likely wont be doing anything about it in the next gen. I think they declined comment when someone asked if the RL successor would don the Legend nameplate

Sarlacc

How many non-car people do you know really care or educate themselves on engine choices and transmissions?

We all allocation will really only favor one or maybe two options.

It's a smaller entry level sedan...that will be cheaper to make. We dont know how entry luxury it will be...but it's still going to based on the civic and limited to what the civic can give us. A cheap macpnerson front strut suspension...what happened to days of the civic having a duo le wishbone suspension?

But I digress because never did I say the ilx would be a shitty or shittier car.

Acura has a good entry level luxury sedan...the tsx. It needs newer engines and transmissions.

Their focus is in the wrong place.

KillerG

We can agree on that atleast, the TSX should be their main starting point and focus, and to make it competitive with the other luxury makes it needs to offer a RWD/AWD layout to be taken seriously

Im pretty sure the TSX is getting the new direct injection 2.4 w/ CVT before it goes though... not that it needed that at all, the new 6speed auto from the 2012 TL would have been nicer

SSFTSX

Pretty easy?. I think your deducing next generation A3 sedan weight from Current A3.
Case in point. Motortrend car of the year VW Passat SEL V6 3.6 on 18inch rim is 160lbs lighter than Accord EX V6 on 17inch with much superior handling showing tightness of body and suspension.
Just look at new A6 weight compared to competiton and why it ended on C&D top 10 but not BMW 5.
VW group size and profit is on such scale now that can lower the price of products, increase contents with much superior execution. I have no doubt this A3 sedan will surpass all other things in its price range.
Anothter Integra/RSX type vehicle has no place in $30k price range.
watch video motorized navigation screen, interior, speaker, lights. everything is designed for premium brand.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Seems to me Acura is serious about fixing its shxt up.

The TSX might be doing well, but it won't be the same again in the future. It will be combined with the TL into one model, one real 5 series fighter.

There will be no CSX crap. The ILX will be (or supposed to be) a real A3/C class/3 series competitor. It might still be FWD based, but then the A3 is the same too. It will be smaller and starting price will be cheaper than the current TSX. Jeff at TOV has SEEN the car IN PERSON and he likes it a lot. Jeff also noticed that "from the styling and proportions there is essentially no hint that this car is related to the Civic."

The RL will be quite a bit bigger than the current model, offering 7-series cabin space. It will have the electric SH-AWD system mentioned in the Earth Dream Tech thing. So we should be looking at something like a 3.5L V6 with DI plus three motors for a total of roughly 400hp and a 7-speed dual clutch gearbox. It is said that the new electric sh-awd system is much lighter than the mechanical sh-awd system currently used.

The new NSX will look like that vehicle in that avengers movie (with a few tweaks). It will be mid engined, rear wheel driven. Jeff wasn't able to find out what powertrains this car will use, but Honda said the 3.5L V6 plus electric motors (good for 400hp) setup is "clearly not potent enough" for the new NSX.

Colin

OK, never mind then.

Costco

and, fixed that for you

Costco

I normally don't read his posts unless he gets quoted by someone, but it looks like the cycle has come full circle.

Before it was Audi > *

Then it was Honda > *

Now it's back to where it all started.




but back on topic, this is really some of the first exciting news from Honda/Acura in a while. Nonetheless, we're all waiting on the execution stage. You can't deny that many of us (myself included) have been waiting on a transmission with more than 5 forward speeds and direct injection. a 7-speed dual clutch is great, and I guess a CVT is a step up from a 5AT, at least in terms of fuel economy.

If they would trickle down CVT for the base models/lower end cars, 7DCT for the performance cars or as a luxury option and still have 6MT available, I would love them for it. And then I can SSFTSX my friends and family into looking at Hondas again.

phile

indeed, exciting times (finally)

I'm not keen on the ILX name either.

TSX69

Affordable Luxury?
Honda Plans Indiana-Made Acura

Honda's stab at reviving its luxury Acura line will be a new, made-in-Indiana compact sedan with a lower sticker price than you'd expect from an Acura.

The Japanese automaker said Monday it will begin making a new Acura sedan, the ILX, priced at less than $30,000, next spring at its plant in Greensburg.

No new jobs come from the move, but putting production of the Acura model in Greensburg should solidify its standing within Honda's global system and help justify the decision to double the plant's workforce earlier this year, said plant spokeswoman Anita Sipes.

"It's a great opportunity for us," she said Monday. "It brings some stability, job security. This proves in one more (way) that we're here to stay."

Opened in 2008, the Greensburg plant makes Honda's value-priced Civic cars. Honda has invested $550 million in the plant and in October doubled its employment to 2,000.

Greensburg was picked to make the Acura ILX in part because the new car will be built on the same compact-size chassis as the Civic. That reduces the cost to Honda to retool the production line. Sipes wouldn't say how much Honda is spending to buy equipment and make other changes to the Greensburg plant.

Without revealing the name of the vehicle, Honda has been training some of the Greensburg plant's employees to assemble a new car model. On Monday, the plant's managers revealed the Acura name to employees at morning meetings, Sipes said.

There was no ceremony attached to the announcement and, in fact, employees and the public won't even see what the Acura ILX looks like until the design is unveiled Jan. 9-10 at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

The ILX, which will be the 5th Acura model made in North America, is critical to Honda's attempt to reignite buyer interest in its 25-year-old Acura line.

"The brand is in trouble," said Jessica Caldwell, an analyst for researcher Edmunds.com. "The consensus for many of the current models is the vehicles just look bland. They have to do something to capture people's emotions with styling."

Acura, like the overall Honda brand, is struggling this year from reduced production triggered by natural disasters and a model line that hasn't drawn as much attention as those of Volkswagen's Audi, Bayerische Motoren Werke's BMW and Daimler's Mercedes-Benz.

Acura sales slid 6.7% through November, to 110,170. That compares with gains of 15% for Audi, 12% for BMW and 12% for Mercedes' luxury models in the 1st 11 months.

Acura sales peaked in 2005 at 209,610.

Sipes wouldn't say how many Acura ILXs Honda wants to make each day in Greensburg. Civic production of 800 a day is close to the plant's 2-shift capacity, she said, so Civic production will have to be reduced to produce the ILX.

"It'll be an easy change," she said. "It's on the same production line."

Both gas and gas-electric hybrid Acuras will be made at Greensburg.

Sipes wouldn't reveal Honda's hoped-for production numbers for the ILX, but industry sources put the number at 40,000 annually once sales ramp up.

Although baby boomers account for the majority of luxury sales, Honda is bringing out the Acura ILX to prepare to sell to the children of boomers, who are entering the auto market, said Michael Accavitti, Honda's vice president of U.S. marketing. The group, born since about 1980, covers as many as 80 million people, he said.

"Gen-Y consumers aspire to luxury still, but they need some help getting there," he said. "They are projected to be the first generation in the modern era to earn less than their parents."

Call Star reporter Jeff Swiatek at (317) 444-6483.

Infamous425

ILX sounds stupid. since they're finally giving up on tier1 status they should bring back names.
the euro civic has a pretty nice interior, hopefully they dont give us a tarted up NA civic interior

charliemike

I'm often happy. But never with Honda/Acura because they don't build anything I like.

Yes, Buick. This is no different than taking a Chevy Cruze and making it a Buick Verano ... Except the ILX will probably be $2-3k more than the Buick.

Yumcha

Well, could care less on the name...just hope...it's good.

charliemike

I still don't believe that's accurate.

I am a huge fan of Ford, Audi, VW (most of the time), the 370Z, some BMWs, Mercedes (C-Coupe AMG, SLK55, GL55, and CLS AMG), Vauxhall/Opel, Alfa Romeo, the Fiat 500 Abarth/SS, and the Mazdaspeed3.

I'm not going to give anyone credit for making dubious design choices that turn into average cars.

It doesn't mean I'm rarely happy, it just means we often get inferior cars in the States compared to Europe. That is changing though, which is a good thing.

dom

But apparently, according to Jeff at TOV, the 2.4 will only be available with the 6MT. Big, huge, unbelievably stupid mistake IMO. Why only an MT? It's not as if 200 HP makes a sports car these days. They're losing out on everyone who wants a bit of power and an AT, and we all know how many people want a MT these days. Decesions like that baffle the mind.

It's not a sports car Honda, wake up and offer the AT, CVT or whatever.

Yumcha

Honda (in high-pitched voice): "No!"

KillerG

there are TONS of people i know whod like a MT but ended up with AT because their parents helped them buy, or wife can only drive AT, etc.

dom

Yep, and the same goes with the Si. What exactly is the harm of offering an AT? Besides the extra SKU# Colin.

Its great that the MT is there, don't get me wrong but in this day and age a slushbox of some sort is a must. Its as if they're treating the Si and ILX-S or whatever its called as some high end sports car that's only worthy of a MT. Really?

dom

You caught him in his 'Audi' phase. Try again next week.

KillerG

I agree, a feel like more enthusiasts even would end up purchasing A/Ts and rather have that option VS a CVT and a MT.

random: if there was no MT i feel like a very vocal small population of car enthusiasts would flip over the omission...

phee

iTrader: (5)

k24 in a 3300 lbs is no slouch

Colin

Yeah, that one makes you scratch your head doesn't it? I suppose for now the TSX is still available with an AT and maybe when that goes away (or refreshes) they'll add the auto?

You know me too well, I hate choice! So I've been trying to wrap my head around the possible versions in this car. So far:

Base 2.0 AT
Tech 2.0 AT
Hybrid 1.5 CVT
Hybrid Tech 1.5 CVT
Sport 2.4 6MT
Sport Tech 2.4 6MT

It's possible they could add a manual option to the 2.0 or offer only one version of the Hybrid (tech only). With an estimated 40,000 units per year, it works out to 12 per dealer per month. Which could mean only two different colors per trim per month. Thats a far cry from the Integra days where we'd inventory 30-50 cars spread among 5 trim levels.

SSFTSX

It is a joke. Civic hybrid engine in Acura. where even in Honda Civic it costs $26K loaded. Honda Civic Hybrid weighs 2900lbs.
Sporty but heavier. (it needs to pull higher gs)Acura with large rims will decrease both fuel efficiency and performance. so why even bother with such engine. Unless it is turbo charged hybrid.
adding HID, ELS, rear view camera will not make it a desirable product. I can bet it will still have lower content than Euro-Civic just like TSX has lower content than Euro-Accord.
People buy $30k TSX for its large size, refinement and styling. Those people dont want to sit in smaller size car. When Euro Civic cannot reach Euro Accord refinement and ride. so how on earth this USDM Civic based can do it.
Euro Civic. It has almost same or more content as Euro Accord. like pushbutton start, auto sensing wipers, power folding mirros,
Fully loaded 1.8 Euro Civic weighs 1360kg. about 3000lbs. USDM Civic is too strip down to compare.
This is best you can hope from Acura Sub-TSX to match Euro Civic. It wont surpass it in handling and content.

Rapture

I dunno about all this. I don't really have much faith that there genuinely is a demographic of people who want an upscale car but need something with extra MPGs. I just saw my first Lexus hybrid earlier today, actually. Every other Lexus I've seen is usually an IS350 or something. If such a demographic does exist, they'll be far fewer in number than Acura hopes.

Colin

It may depend on how much fuel is in your neck of the woods? Here, with some of the highest in the nation, EVERYBODY asks about fuel economy. An appropriate question is 'is it REALLY the objection'? cause they still seem to buy MDXs etc.

Locally, we are having a lot of crosshopping between the new CT and the TSX with the lack of CTs being the deciding factor in some cases. I'm thinking the basic question is whether we're (Americans) are ready for premium small cars. There are some signs that the public is looking to move smaller but still want amenities.

biker

^ That's been true in Europe for some time.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

For the ILX, since its base price will probably be around $25k, I'd imagine at that price range, people do care about fuel economy. A IS350 starts at over $40k on the other hand, and perhaps at that price level, fuel economy is probably not a huge concern in general?

At the $40k price point, we will be looking at the replacement model for TL/TSX (or the 5 series/A6/E Class competitor). I think at that price point, the emphasize would be on power while still achieving good mpg.

pickler

the ILX is basically the CSX that was available here in canada which is in turn basically the asian honda civic 2.0s. It was a failure in canada so i can't see how it will do better in the states under a different name.

Colin

Unlike those cars, it will feature unique sheetmetal and an improved interior. If priced right it should be enough to create some separation from the pack.

phile

something tells me it won't be another CSX. I have a good feeling Acura is going to get this one right. I remember thinking the RSX - if only it had a nicer lux interior, HIDs, keyless entry and all that jazz - that would've been a perfect little Acura.

SSFTSX

why do you think are so many more IS sales per month comapared to CT/HS despite IS250 is in 6th year now. At $30k price looks and handling is more important than fuel economy.
If next IS can get same fuel economy improvement as new Camry. it can pretty much trounce any 4 cylinder Acura.
Civic Si dont have much better fuel economy than TSX 6MT. I highly doubt 6MT ILX will make difference.
Problem with 2.0 engine is that engine is not used currently in any other Honda Vehcile. so whats the point of producing it for limited run. Either go with 2.4 or 1.8.



http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...2011+sales.htm
Lexus Division reported passenger car sales of 10,537 units, an increase of 10.1 percent over November 2010. The ES 350 entry luxury sedan led passenger cars with sales of 4,731 units, up 11.6 percent compared to the same period last year. The IS lineup reported combined sales of 2,676 units, flat versus the year-ago month, and the all-new CT 200h premium hybrid compact posted 1,759 units in its ninth month of sales.