Legend2TL

Yep and that's the point I was hoping you'd catch. Colin in his original posting not really knowing what BMW's sales targets were. So it always about implication Colin think it was low and you thinking variants meaning it's OK, no one said for certain.

ttribe

I'm not going to argue this anymore. I will only say that you are misrepresenting what I said and leave it at that.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Have you guys seen the 2014 A3 sedan (yes, it won't be a hatchback anymore)? Here is a link: http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-c...-audi-a3-sedan

Seems like this will be one of ILX's competitors (at a higher price range I'd imagine).

Colin

I went back to watch that and what surprised me was his statement that they "pulled the pillars quite a bit back". I've always thought that the A-pillar to firewall joint was a 'fixed point' in a common chassis'? One of those things that you don't normally change. I wonder if they did this by not changing the actual 'hard point' but by moving the leading edge of the hood a bit more forward over the wheel centerline? This could create different proportions without actually changing the base of the windshield relative to the wheels.

That illustration looks like a cross between a Chrysler 200 and VW CC. Don't current A3s share the transverse engine configuration with the Golf/Jetta? Are those two ready for a FMC, maybe this is why they're changing the A3 too? 174" seems pretty small, but it would likely have a long(sis) wheelbase which might help a bit. I agree, $30K base, $35-37K for a loaded one.

charliemike

That is a really expensive car IMO. I think it should start at $27k and hit no more than $32k max.

It won't, but it should. A loaded A3 should not be $4k more than a base A4.

phile

that's probably what he meant by "great lengths"? ie, he wasn't exaggerating, it really took that much work to change something simple like that.

dom

Golf and Jetta now ride on separate platforms.

I believe they (Golf and A3) are, yes.

Colin

I just can't kick the feeling that although Golf, Jetta and A3 may be "different", the engine subframe is a common component. Maybe its the fact that the engine choices and front track are essentially the same for all three? I know the Golf has the IRS and the Jetta has a longer wheelbase, but there seems to a similar commonality of some bits. For example, the Golf and A3 share the same wheelbase and the front and rear track are within .3", probably due to wheel differences.

dom

You're probably right. They are probably very similar What I can say is that I've driven both a 2011 and 11 Jetta back to back and they felt like very different cars. Although I'm sure tuning and overall quality played a part in that.

Legend2TL

^ According to Wiki, current A3/Jetta/Golfride on the same basic platform the group A5. But that platform can be modular and allow different floor-pans lengths allowing front/rear suspension/cradles. Nissan does with their FM platform. Sometimes the manufacturer uses the same front box sections as hydroforming tooling is even more than expensive than EDM sheet stamp tooling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswa..._A_platform#A5

Legend2TL

I'm curious as to how they did that as well. Moving the A pillars affects structural rigidity and collision energy absorption. Your right most of the unibody frames I've seen stripped down have fairly thick A pilar's welded to the top of the firewall side structural sections (which most often support the door hinges also).

Colin

I guess the question is whether they moved the A-pillars relative to the engine/tranny/wheels or relative to the front bumper?

F23A4

SSFTSX

It is not double standards. Japanese differeniate more on features and interior content while German differeniate more Engine/Transmission/suspension/rims etc.
Would pay same amount of money for CVT/FWD A3 sedan vs AWD/8speed auto A3 or even 300bhp S3.
Acura does not give that much choices in options and engines.

A3 Sedan 2.0TDI will be way faster than 1.5L Hybrid ILX. It just shows Civic roots of ILX that are not putting larger Accord Hybrid into ILX.

Passat TDI is not expensive than Civic Hybrid.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review
2012 Volkswagen Passat TDI SE

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review
2012 Honda Civic Hybrid

I dont think A3 sedan will be that much expensive as Euro is falling and volume of Audi is increasing way faster than any other brand. so the same MMI vendor for All Audi sedans across the world can give bigger discounts to Audi than Acura.

SSFTSX

if Acura creates next TL/TSX even remotely look like ILX. it will be failure.

A3 has strong resemlance to A4 but with much improved design in side and rear profile.

knavinusa

Those air vents are ugly. The current design is better.

As for the ILX, judging from that rear profile shot, I'd be surprised to know it rides on the Civic platform.

VW is rolling out the new MQB platform which is intended to replace all current transverse platforms. Right now they have separate platforms for mini, compact, and mid-sized cars.

Ken1997TL

And what credentials give you any sort of authority on the subject?

Go troll elsewhere.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

That navigation screen is not the most aerodynamic. Your argument is invalid.

Hapa DC5

Audi wheels not practical for aerodynamics. cd in wheels higher in Audi models than Honda. Honda models compete on higher level than Audi. Audi is joke of automotive world. 2009 TSX sets benchmark for future vehicles that Audi only hopes to acheive.

ttribe

Ken1997TL

Well played Sir

Hapa DC5

Last year you biggest fan of Honda. Put down Audi, put down MB, put down BMW. Say unable to compete. Say HondAcura side mirror design and ground clearance benchmark of automotive market.

Almost three years ago you ride Audis nuts say HondAcura cannot match superior Audi. Say unable to compete. Say not true luxury manufacturer.

Okay the FOB talk is going to kill me. Presently you're back on Audi's nuts. Next year you will ride Hyundai despite everything you have said about them, or wait maybe Toyota/Lexus?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Currently, the cheapest trim in the A3 line up is $27k (2.0TFSI Premium 6MT FWD). The most expensive trim is $33k (2.0TFSI Premium Plus 6AT Quattro).

However, the most expensive trim ($33k one) is by no means the fully loaded.

Some of the things that you can still add:
Convenience package ($1300)
Cold weather package ($500)
Titanium Sport Package ($2000)
18" Sport Package ($1400)
Navigation ($2000)
Panorama Roof ($1100)

Depending on how many options/packages you want, you can easily get to $37k. This is probably what Colin was referring to?

dom

Just remember it's not apples to apples when comparing the ILX to the A3. That power train is better is anything the ILX will have to offer by a considerable margin IMO.

Colin

I asked a friend at Acura to check if it was a typo and he took a few days and confirmed that the width listed is correct. The only caveat being that it's the correct width for the car shown saying, "the car has some pretty good shoulders on it" We'll learn more soon, production specs could come at the Chicago show.

SSFTSX

I didnot put down Audi. unless you can show it. the point is every year passes and Honda is going down. Its vehicles are getting expensive with older technology. Audi/BMW is moving up with more standard feature content/newer technology/better fuel efficiency. So that value of money of Honda is not simply there.
whats the point of introducing 2013 ILX model year car with 5 Speed Auto transmission? and that on Civic Chasis.
If Civic SI with dirt cheap price dont justify it against existing TSX. I dont see heavier & wider ILX will be any better.

Colin

Everything you write gets in the way of real discussion. Please, I beg of you, stop the madness.

stop

STOP

S T O P!

knavinusa

I don't think I've seen you react to him like that before.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Seriously. Never seen him reacting to someone like that before.

SSFTSX, please, you are that annoying dude. No offense.... just stop posting. Please.

YEH

The IS and TSX are more competitors of the 3 Series than the 1 Series.

In the luxury/near luxury segment, there seems to be a limit on how much of a compromise buyers will make on interior room, and the 1 Series, in particular, is pretty close in price to the 3 Series (the 1 Series mostly gets BMW enthusiasts who think the 3 Series coupe has gotten too big or want a modern day equivalent to the 2002).

Hapa DC5

Don't forget BMW every few months you change tune as to who's nuts to ride... You circle jerk Audi and Acura to put down MB/BMW then put down Acura to give a hand job back to BMW
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...postcount=1955
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...postcount=2711
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=448
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=430
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=192
^ that one is where you say a theoretical AWD 6MT TSX will match the performance of an R8
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...postcount=1585
^ that's where ZDX ground clearance is so much more superior than Q5/X5 in the most appropriate forum, monthly car sales https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...i#post12331703 responses below
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...postcount=1577
^ more gold from you
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...postcount=1551
^ "TL is a legend no car in its class can match"
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=886
^ The RL is perfect
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=755
^ Acura is Tier 1 and Audi also has a real flagship
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=598
^ Acura is behind.

You can't make up your mind. You're all over the place and post to incite some type of emotional response from the rest of us. You truly have succeeded at that; kudos. So please stop and stick to a stance you actually BELIEVE not because you just want to piss everyone off.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

:r ofl:

MTEAZY

Costco

And with every quote, reponse, or hateful remark, SSFTSX is nurtured and grows stronger.

He takes your hateful posts, shoves it up his butt, and poops it out of his mouth onto his keyboard, then he clicks "Post Reply". You continue to post, he continues the verbal- er, typed-out diarrhea.

dom

Just ignore people. He'll go away on his own is you stop replying.

Hapa DC5

Eh according to SSFTSX Acura horsepower and transmissions are different. His theoretical R8 killing TSX is measured by unicorns, thus defeating the inferior R8 which use horsepower ratings.

Unicorns > horses duh.

charliemike

Definitely. An A3 TDi Titanium or whatever is about $40k. It's nuts. It's a nice car but it's not $13k nicer than a Golf TDi.

Legend2TL

Getting Colin annoyed is sorta like getting Mother Teresa mad, I suppose even she got mad once every few years.

Moog-Type-S

Trolls gonna Troll.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

On the other hand, it's a good thing a small compact car like the A3 can be loaded like that. That's giving customers options.