The Germans probably don't have to....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124873997073285323.html

"German luxury auto makers including BMW AG and Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz are close to benefitting from a U.S. concession that will allow them and a few other foreign makers to keep selling cars that emit more greenhouse gases than those made by mass-market rivals such as General Motors Co. and Toyota Motor Corp."

Sometimes it's easier to hire a good lobbyist firm than putting money into technology and engineering.

This demonstrates that most government regulations are a joke. All companies should be on a level playing field, instead of the nonsensical situation that currently exists.

Unfortunately, this is a must-happen to almost all companies when a new boss comes on board to replace the old one. There is this old camp who are loyal to the old boss, and the new camp that the new boss has brought along with him.

This in-house power struggle between the old and new camp is very destabilizing to the company and especially to existing programs which were laid down by the old boss. It will take years to clean out all the deep-rooted "trouble-makers", and until then the Acura brand will continue to disappoint Acura fans and to drift even further away from it's unachievable Tier-1 dream.

nope. MB/BMW has earned it place to be exempt from regualtion by selling overpriced cars that give more sales tax revenue per vehicle. otherwise these regulations will degrade quality of vechicles. It is ok to buy $80K V8 car than $30K V8 Car. same is true for cheaper V6 vehicles. I would rather drive $50K V6 vehicle than $25K V6 vehicle. (aka V6 Accord).

I don't understand how this makes any sense at all. Either the government should stay out of the market entirely (normally the best solution), or should impose uniform regulations over all automakers. Right now, the government is only imposing the onerous CAFE standards on some automakers, in effect, handicapping some companies compared to others. In past years, the loopholes in regulations made the manufacture of SUVs advantageous because they were classified as trucks instead of passenger vehicles. As others have said, this is all about lobbying.

LOL. I don't know if some of these comments are made tongue-in-cheek or you are serious, but of course there's no exceptions for specific car manufacturers in the U.S. That would be political suicide, especially if they gave those exceptions to non-US car makers.

I'm certainly no expert on CAFE, but, the new CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Efficiency) formula's have gotten more complicated now from what I've read. It involves more than just MPG. There are rules for setting standards on cars (and fleets of cars) that factor in total CO2 emissions also. it even factors in the size of the cars using wheelbase and length for setting requirements for compliance. The unfortunate fact is that Acura's technology and fleets are just not anymore CAFE competitive with these new rules than BMW. Regardless, their is no serious crime for non-compliance. The car manufacture just gets dinged with a fee for every mpg over the CAFE limit (or credits for being under the limit). Some of these car manufacturers could simply be calculating and anticipating that a car buyer will be willing to pay that penalty to drive a car that offers the performance they want. Obviously, Honda is not taking that view of things.

Again, there ARE rules. It's just not a simple -- "every car must get 39mpg by 2016" rule. As with any government policy, it's extremely complicated with all sorts of complex formula's taking in dozens of variables. Is it fair if some companies figure out how to work those rules better than others? All's fair in love, war, and business.

If you read the article that was posted earlier, there is an exception for manufacturers that sell less than 400,000 vehicles in the US. In terms of CAFE rules, BMW and MB will be on a different playing field than Honda, Toyota, GM etc. because they fall below a size threshold in the US. This has nothing to do with complex formulas.

yes, i read the article. It was for a limited time frame and only applied to a small percentage of their entire lineup. These smaller performance orientated brands are arguing that the forumla's are based on a "fleet" concept of measuring fuel economy, and this puts them at a disadvantage because they don't sell little shitboxes getting 40mpg to offset the other cars. They may be right and consideration is being made to give them more time to adjust their product lineups to work with the CAFE formula's in place. By the way, nothing has been finalized yet so it's all in play.

Personally, I really don't think that's going to "handicap" Honda from competing with BMW because (as the argument states) Honda has Civics and Fits to allow them to acumulate "credits" to use against the penalties they have from low mpg cars like the MDX. I think Hond'a is just using this as an excuse to explain their schizo behavior

it is the same as living in expensive neighborhood. you pay higher property taxes, home owner association fees and prices at local stores are also higher.
Same is case with tier one cars.
No1. Insurance is higher.
No2. Maintiance/Repair is higher
No3. higher fuel costs.
No.4 Licensing fees are highers as Tier 1 cars are heavier/high value.
No5. Sales tax is higher.
No6. There is gas guzzler/luxury tax i believe.

This is just from owner prospectives.

Now look at from Manufacturer perspective.

No.1 Market size small even in developed countries like US.
No 2. It is even smaller in developing countries of world where 6 billion of world population and hence future consumers.

No3. Higher cost of dealership network as cars have more complex systems for repair/maintain and upkeep standards.
No4.R&D spending in developing Tier 1 product is huge
There are host of reasons like environmental as number of Tier 1 cars on road are not that many. For this reason i even say diesel Tier 1 car should be exempt from any kind of environmental regulation.

It will be interesting to see how things go in the near future.

More Idle Chatter
 

And if Michael Phelps wanted to differentiate himself, he could do the doggy-paddle during a 200m butterfly competition.

:yawn:

Another RL based off the Accord? Nice.

Making anything based of a Civic and trying to pass it off as a luxury car is gay. Not that I have anything against the car but basing an entire lineup of Accords and Civics just blows. Honda is trying to take GM's brand whoring title away. Sucks that my current Acura will be the only one I own in the foreseeable future (MDX excluded).

:whyme: more rebadged Honda products....Acura Civic: Now that's how you move to tier one

they seriously cannot make up their mind. one minute they ditch the RSX because it brought the brand level down now they want it back. next RL suppose to be rwd v8 now it will be another luxury accord :rofl:

Focusing on fuel economy rather than performance will only drag the Acura brand closer to the economy segment. All the while, the luxury segment brands are focusing on economy as well as performance at the same time. Acura has differentiate itself all right, by moving down-market away from the other luxury segment brands.

Bringing back the RSX compact-size car will only further move the Acura brand down-market, and this was the exact reason why the el-cheapo RSX was axed in the 1st place.

So now, cheap economy-minded fans go Acura, and performance-minded fans go BMW, MB, Lexus, and Audi.

Dear Acura,

Trying to convince people that, to play in the luxury car game, a V8(and FR) isn't required and a V6(SOHC at that!) SH-AWD on Accord platform is adequate, just gives us incentive that you guys are smoking some really strong sh*t!

Keep doing that, and watch your sales decline. But hey, whatever floats your boat!

Disappointed (loyalist?)
Vybz Kartel

Yup...Acura is differentiating itself from the luxury segment by focusing on anything but luxury. :whyme:

Momma always told me to think differently...that's why when i wanted to learn karate, I joined the boy scouts.

Wow people sure get excited about rumors.

Sorry, which part of the news is rumor ?

NSX-replacement program dead <- fact.
V8 program dead <- fact.
RWD program dead <- fact.
No V8-RWD for "Tier-1" RL <- fact.
No V8-RWD for Acura => no high performance offering <- fact.

A bunch of old info in blog form? Why is this even worth discussing?

:toocool: So the herd has something to bitch about?

While I agree with some of your points, this last one is not precisely true. Audi has AWD on all of their models and is moving away from V8s, yet still has high performance offerings. I think the AWD, supercharged V6 S4 is a good example. However, I think the chances are somewhere between slim and none that Honda uses forced induction again in the near future.

Wow. Everybody seems to really want Acura to be a luxury brand. I guess the noise made about Tier 1 will do that. I think the news of a RSX revival is a good thing - Acura hasn't stood for anything since they started to abandon the market of young, single professionals that used to buy Integras.

Well, even the poster indicates it is idle chatter.

Nothing to see here, no new news, move along....

Acura is years away from a vehicle like that just based on their bipolar goals... if it ever even happens.

Well it is a rumor, but if there were any credence to this, it makes sense that development would have to start soon. 2012 is not too far off (in car production terms). The other thing to remember, is that with the introduction of the Fit to Honda, It is possible that the next gen Civic get's a major upgrade to it's chassis. A new RSX based on this might make sense if done right. I really think that a hybrid might make sense, but I also think that 2012 is too long to wait for an HS fighter.

they can still add hybrid to current 2.4L TSX. Toyota share Avensis/HS250.
Basic strategy should be to built hybrid/Diesels based on single platform.

Sorry, but I can't find proof for this yet,

"Acura is currently considering a compact car replacement for its RSX, which could arrive in time for the 2012 model year if designers borrow the platform from the next-generation Honda Civic. This could be followed by a new CL coupe, though there are no plans as yet for such a vehicle."

I have yet to see this in any press release from Acura. Someone here was saying this,

"Bringing back the RSX compact-size car will only further move the Acura brand down-market, and this was the exact reason why the el-cheapo RSX was axed in the 1st place."

^^^^^

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20060501/free/60501001

The article says they are planing to kill the RSX. What? Did I just go through a worm hole?

A quick scan to the bottom of the page shows the article was last updated in May 2006. God knows when it was originally written.

^^^^^

Correct. It was announced on May 1, 2006 that Acura would discontinue the RSX at the end of the 2006 model year. Reason : The el-cheapo was in the way of Acura's long term plan to move upscale.

Time flies, eh ? Didn't realize it was almost 3 years since the last RSX rolled off the final production line ?

oK? I thought everyone knows about that? What's unofficial though, is that, they are bringing BACK the RSX. Killing it is fact, bringing it back is not. That's my point.

Exactly, when everyone knows that the el-cheapo RSX model line was axed simply because it was preventing the Acura brand to move upscale, it seems highly illogical for Acura now to bring the RSX-replacement back, unless the Acura brand has completely given up on it's plan to migrate upscale.

Thus, the statement :

"Bringing back the RSX compact-size car will only further move the Acura brand down-market, and this was the exact reason why the el-cheapo RSX was axed in the 1st place."

I 'd loved to find my post a few years back questioning the wisdom of Acura killing the RSX just when its supposed rivals were bringing out entry level luxury cars. 1 series, A3, S40 and B Class.

Seems they're always 2 or 3 steps behind the competition. And this after Honda's new CEO's states they shouldn't be following what everyone else is doing. :rolleyes:

And anyone expecting anything more than simply the next gen CSX that we currently get in Canada can dream on. And that's not necessarily a bad thing IMO.

Please remember that Acura is only being recognized as wanna-be luxury brand, whereas BMW, MB, and Audi are considered to be fully established true luxury brands whose products are highly desirable.

So this is the tricky part. True luxury brands can bring out small and cheap luxury cars without damaging the brand status, because these brands have been well established in people's mind as a true luxury brand no matter what. However, if a brand (in this case Acura) is not firmly established as a true luxury brand, bringing out small and cheap cars will only push down the brand more towards economy brand status (in this case Honda) rather than lift up towards true luxury brand status.

In the luxury car market, brand image carries a lot of weight. Just ask some people what they prefer. Do they prefer to have a BMW 1-series, MB B-class, or Audi A3 parked on their driveways, or rather have an Acura RSX parked on their driveways instead ?

So first establish the brand image. Once that is done, the true luxury brand can do whatever it wants and its cars will sell by themselves without "cheapening" the brand.

As for the CSX for the Canadian Acura market, please note that the population in Canada is only 1/10 that of the US population, and thus the Canadian purchasing power is at best 1/10 that of the US. When compounded by the much higher Canada tax rates and much lower disposable income that the Canadians are earning, Canadians do not share the same auto buying patterns as the US people.

In the US, the best selling car is either the Camry or Accord (mid-size/full-size class). Whereas in Canada, the best selling car is the Civic or Corolla (compact class) which is one size down than the Camry or Accord.

As a result, CSX sits well as an entry-level Acura in Canada because it is exactly one size down compared to the TSX which is the entry-level Acura in the US. That's all we Canadians can afford !

Audi is not a luxury brand yet since it's sales numbers really don't show it to be for mid-level and flagship models. However I would put Lexus in the luxury catagory since it's model range and sales numbers show it to be in the same class as MB and BMW. Perhaps in a few years or a decade Audi will be there but not now.

August 2009
Mid-Level
1. Mercedes-Benz E-Class - 4,671
2. BMW 5-Series - 3,536
3. Lincoln MKS - 1,370
4. Lexus GS - 669
5. Infiniti M - 618
6. Volvo S80 - 565
7. Audi A6- 561
8. Cadillac STS - 337
9. Acura RL - 149
10. Saab 9-5 - 52

Flagship
1. Mercedes-Benz S-Slass - 1,031
2. Lexus LS - 880
3. BMW 7-Series - 862
4. Audi A8 - 109