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Old 09-26-2003, 11:51 AM
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Re: Acura not the only maker to provide integrated Bluetooth system with Navi

Originally posted by need4spd

Also, it will do more than Acura's by letting you access the phone book from the phone (per mini TL site, you can not doe this) and allows you to store up to 500 numbers (Acura is 50).
Not being able to access the phone's phone book is a major flaw in the Acura implementation. Looks like Acura is not implementing the full Hands-free Profile spec. Maybe they simply ran out of time to get it all debugged and ready for users.

Hopefully this is something that can be addressed with a software update down the line.
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Old 09-26-2003, 11:56 AM
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Re: Re: Acura not the only maker to provide integrated Bluetooth system with Navi

Originally posted by SSH
Not being able to access the phone's phone book is a major flaw in the Acura implementation. Looks like Acura is not implementing the full Hands-free Profile spec. Maybe they simply ran out of time to get it all debugged and ready for users.

Hopfully this is something that can be addressed with a software update down the line.
But...you can add numbers to the memory of the car for hands free dialing.
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Old 09-26-2003, 12:19 PM
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Re: Acura not the only maker to provide integrated Bluetooth system with Navi

Originally posted by need4spd
Also, it will do more than Acura's by letting you access the phone book from the phone (per mini TL site, you can not doe this) and allows you to store up to 500 numbers (Acura is 50).

It is also voice controlled (not sure all functions though)

Note, the Lexus system deactivates some of the bluetooth functions when car is in gear to limit phone/driving activity.
Acura is however the only auto maker to include Bluetooth as a standard feature. On the non Navi 04 TL you do only get 50 stored #'s.

How much is it to get the Bluetooth on a Lexus?

If you choose the Navi you do have access to all stored phone #'s as well as your personalized address book. Acura's Navi system has 7 million points of interest. I'm not sure how many have #'s but I'll bet most.

You are correct you just left out some facts.
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Old 09-26-2003, 12:19 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Acura not the only maker to provide integrated Bluetooth system with Navi

Originally posted by elbodude
But...you can add numbers to the memory of the car for hands free dialing.
Correct, but its a messy alternative to a full hands-free sync of the phone book which the hands-free profile offers. I'm also concerned with the 50 number limit.

Don't get me wrong, Acura is way ahead of the game even with this limited implementation. It would be nice if Acura can offer a software upgrade in the future to address the shortcomings.
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Old 09-28-2003, 04:41 PM
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Question ELS is to Acura as Mark Levinson is to Lexus?

Well...w/ the introduction of the new TL, and the raving reviews of the new ELS sound system, do you think that ELS stereos are going to be a hallmark feature of Acura automobiles, like Mark Levinson is to Lexus? I think it might be safe to say that the TL isn't the only Acura that is going to be seen w/ an ELS stereo...
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Old 09-28-2003, 04:55 PM
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I agree. The TL can't have DVD-A and the RL not have it, so it makes sense for the RL to use the ELS partnership for its system.
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Old 09-28-2003, 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by RJC RSX
I agree. The TL can't have DVD-A and the RL not have it, so it makes sense for the RL to use the ELS partnership for its system.
I guess what I'm saying is that (maybe) some day we'll see ELS sound in practically all models--TSX, TL, MDX, and RL--by means of making it standard or grouping it in a package somehow, like the Touring package on the MDX.
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Old 09-28-2003, 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by RJC RSX
I agree. The TL can't have DVD-A and the RL not have it, so it makes sense for the RL to use the ELS partnership for its system.
I am really starting to get anxious for the RL. I wonder what advances in the world of technology will show up...
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Old 09-28-2003, 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by EmuMessenger
I am really starting to get anxious for the RL. I wonder what advances in the world of technology will show up...
We're weeks away from its premier at Tokyo...when should the count-down begin?
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Old 09-28-2003, 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by SPUDMTN
We're weeks away from its premier at Tokyo...when should the count-down begin?
How many weeks?
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Old 09-29-2003, 06:27 AM
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THe new RL will be a V-6 hybrid, supposedly good for 300+hp. Of course it will have the same features of the TL and from my sources, have a humpback lid ala the new 7 series (or something similar to it).
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Old 09-29-2003, 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
THe new RL will be a V-6 hybrid, supposedly good for 300+hp. Of course it will have the same features of the TL and from my sources, have a humpback lid ala the new 7 series (or something similar to it).
:'( Why WOULD ANYONE want to emulate Bangle.....ugh. Actually, I suppose stirring up some design controversy could help Acura shed its ultra conservative past.
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Old 09-29-2003, 11:15 AM
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What does ELS stand for? It would have to get rave reviews for years to carry the same kind of weight and name recognition as Mark Levinson.
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Old 09-29-2003, 01:02 PM
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Elliott L Scheiner
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Old 09-29-2003, 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by Count Blah
What does ELS stand for? It would have to get rave reviews for years to carry the same kind of weight and name recognition as Mark Levinson.
Elliot Scheiner's name is very reputable. I think for Acura to feature his audio engineering in its car definitely puts it at or above the level of a Mark Levinson audio system.
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Old 09-29-2003, 02:17 PM
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Speaking as a pratical audio nut, I would like to say that Mark Levinson carries a heck of a lot more weight than Elliot L Scheiner.

Mark Levinson exists in the upper echlons of consumer audio, and is a well respected brand name. Before the audio details of the Acura TL came out, I had never heard of Elliot L Scheiner. Regardless of how great Mr Cheiner may be, no matter how much he has achieved in the world of professional recordings, he has near-zero recognition among the average consumer.

Using Mark Levinson is a genius move, the brand name is established. Bringing it up in wine-soaked dinner parties will get nods of approval from PWLBAs (People With Large Bank Accounts). But bringing up Elliot L Scheiner will probably summon mostly blank stares.
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Old 09-29-2003, 02:38 PM
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Yep... I was speaking purely from a marketing sense. From what I hear, the system in the new TL is better than the ML audio in Lexus, but it's got no name recognition.

Though honestly, I wouldn't have known about Levinson if it weren't for Lexus.
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Old 09-29-2003, 09:47 PM
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Re: Re: Acura not the only maker to provide integrated Bluetooth system with Navi

Originally posted by wolfeacura
Acura is however the only auto maker to include Bluetooth as a standard feature. On the non Navi 04 TL you do only get 50 stored #'s.

How much is it to get the Bluetooth on a Lexus?

If you choose the Navi you do have access to all stored phone #'s as well as your personalized address book. Acura's Navi system has 7 million points of interest. I'm not sure how many have #'s but I'll bet most.

You are correct you just left out some facts.
I thought you had to manually add to the cars 50 Number Phonebook, I didn't know you could access the Phone's Phonebook
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Old 09-29-2003, 10:32 PM
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Problem is if u have Verizon Wireless like me, or Sprint. No blue tooth phones available for us. No sim card either so we can't even get cool GSM unlocked phones. WHAT THE HELL>. screwed again
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Old 09-30-2003, 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by LeeLee
...Bringing it up in wine-soaked dinner parties will get nods of approval from PWLBAs (People With Large Bank Accounts). But bringing up Elliot L Scheiner will probably summon mostly blank stares.
I would agree with this statement.


I would however prefer the quality of the sound verses the quality of the name dropping.
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Old 09-30-2003, 10:11 AM
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Well I agree, names don't have to mean shiat. Bose, everyone knows their name and their systems are average at best. Mark Levinson custom designs speaker systems for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Even his "inventory" is in the tens of thousands of dollars. He allowed Lexus to use his product:
1. I am sure he got PAAAAIDDDD (cha ching)
2. He was completely satisfied by Lexus that the cars were quiet enough thus deserving of his product.

Hell, the funny thing is, Nakamichi systems were bar-none the best in any car factory sound systems (it won every competition to other companies factory systems) and the ML is even better. Pricey though.

I can't wait to hear the ELS system in the TL.
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Old 09-30-2003, 11:09 AM
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It doesn't let you into the phones phone book it lets you access the phone book in the car. And if you can't do numerous features while the car is in gear doesn't that defeat a fair amount of the hands free benefit. I would also think that if it only comes with NAV it may not be as advanced as Acuras system. there nav system isn't as advanced as Acuras( fewer voice commands, smaller database). And it will be what a 3k option for nav and bluetooth? One of the biggest advantages of Acura is STANDARD features.
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Old 09-30-2003, 04:38 PM
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I think it would be nice to get a comparison from an Auto mag--I remember one of the big three mags brought in an audio expert and ranked a Lexus LS400 w/ Nakamichi vs. BMW 740iL vs. Cadillac STS w/ Bose...the LS400 won.

It would be interesting to see a comparison between...say...an Acura w/ ELS, BMW w/ Logic7, Lexus w/ ML, and a Mercedes-Benz w/ Harman Kardon Logic7. Any magazines listening?
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Old 09-30-2003, 06:37 PM
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You might want to actually read the Absolute Sound article. You have the top high end audio mag comparing the BMW Premium system, the Lexus Levinson system, and the 2004 Acura ELS. You can check my thread for details .
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Old 10-01-2003, 02:16 PM
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The first set of TLs just got off the truck and the ELS system ROCKS. The DVD-A demo disc is awesome. It may not top my Klipsch R series speakers at home but in a car, wow! I dont have any DVD-A discs at home but I may have to run to tower records and pick some up!
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Old 10-01-2003, 08:48 PM
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Interestingly, there are two premium makers of car audio, Bose, and Harmon.

Bose is Bose, but Harnon makes the Mark Levinson system, Infinnity, JBL, Harmon Kardon and a few others I can not think of, they are all privately labeled. Interesting?

The ELS is a colaboration between ELS himself, and Panasonic, so until the ELS system was launched, there were two premium, now there are three premium makers.

Who knew?
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Old 10-03-2003, 03:31 PM
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Automotives: New Acura's styling, sound system stands alone

http://www.duluth.com/placed/index.p...tory_id=153618


Automotives: New Acura's styling, sound system stands alone
John Gilbert
Budgeteer News
Last Updated: Friday, October 03rd, 2003 01:55:03 PM

On Oct. 6, audiophiles and common music fans alike can check out how far out contemporary audio systems have reached. In fact, customers will even be able to purchase the system, for $33,000.

OK, so $33,000 may seem a bit excessive, for even the greatest audio system ever devised, but in this case, you get the system encased in a very good automobile. It will be an Acura TL, the completely renovated mainstream mid-luxury sedan from Honda’s upscale branch, and standard equipment in every Acura TL will be a 5.1 DVD audio system, designed by Elliot Scheiner, in collaboration with Panasonic.

The car can command full automotive attention by itself. It is aimed at making a direct hit on the mid-luxury segment it used to pace, but which has been gobbled up by an expanding array of vehicles, including BMW 3 or 5 Series, Lexus ES, the Audi A4 or A6, Mercedes C230 and Volvo S60 or S80. With a complete departure in appearance, the 2004 TL has a wedgy, edgy look to it, more like the newly introduced TSX sedan than the somewhat mundane styling that plagued the outgoing TL or the larger RL.

It also has power and performance to back up the new look, with 270 horsepower – up 45 over the past TL and up 10 over the Type S sports model of the old TL – and it is available with a six-speed manual transmission or a manually-controlled five-speed automatic. A larger and much more stylish interior, with improved safety and electronic wizardry, and a more responsive driving feel make the new TL a worthy candidate to regain its previous position atop the segment.

While competitors are rushing to revert to rear-wheel drive, Acura is a cinch to increase market share across the snowbelt states by retaining its front-wheel-drive layout on the flashy new TL. The simple fact remains that with rear-wheel drive – even adding the slickest traction-control – the drive wheels are the only ones that spin with power, and in slippery conditions they tend to attempt to overtake the front wheels. With front-wheel drive, the rear wheels never try to pass the fronts.

So the Acura TL can take its place among the numerous improved and impressive mid-luxury sedans. Which brings us back to the audio system, which stands alone.

Think of the person with the finest ear for sound technicalities. It has to be that audio engineer who sits in the control room of a studio or concert hall, determining the absolute best intensity and separation of every voice and instrument, then encodes his finely-tuned preferences onto the next CD we might buy. Elliot Scheiner is one of the most notable sound engineers. He has recorded albums by the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Van Morrison, and on and on.

Scheiner appeared at Acura’s media introduction of the TL sedan for 2004 in suburban Seattle, this past week. Scheiner listens in perfect conditions, and he said he’s always wished others could hear what he hears.

“I just make records,” Scheiner said. “I’m in the control room, in perfect conditions, without moving. We went from analog recording on vinyl, to eight-tracks, to cassettes, and to CDs. Now we’re moving on again. Every time a move has come in the music world, it has been motivated by cars.

Scheiner’s passion showed in his emotional explanation to the automotive journalists, some of whom wouldn’t even go listen to a demonstration inside the car – but came back from the next day’s introductory drive and had to be pulled from the cars where they wanted to stay and keep listening to the tunes.

“I can’t believe I got to work on this,” said Scheiner. “I mix records. It’s been a thrill to work on this, and it’s a thrill to see this car here. No question, this is the best audio system ever put in a car.”

No argument there. Familiar music, now on DVD audio discs, exposed elements that had previously been subtly blended into the whole – so subtly as to be previously unnoticed. You can hear a musician’s fingers pluck the strings of his guitar, as well as hearing the full, rich tone he played. If the system was an option costing $2,000, or $5,000, it would be noteworthy. The fact that it is standard equipment on every 2004 TL is going to hoist the competitive level of mid-luxury automobiles to unprecedented heights.

And that’s without getting into the performance and handling of the TL which is so good, and so sporty, that the previous model’s Type S sporty model is not going to be offered on the new model.

Use of high-strength steel in key locations has increased the torsional rigidity by 24 percent, making it stiffer than the BMW 3 Series, according to Chris Dendis, Acura’s body-chassis chief engineer. New double-wishbone suspension, Brembo four-caliper disc brakes, four-channel skid control, and the use of plastic panels between strategic areas and the exterior, and 3M’s Thinsulate has even been used as a sound-deadener, to assure a much quieter interior.

The voice-activated navigation system is the only option on the feature-laden TL. It has 7 million points of interest, and is voice-activated via 293 recognized commands.

Styling touches include an angular rear, with dual exhausts that have trapezoid-shaped trumpets. The TL went from a sunroof that was smaller than the competing Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and Infiniti models to being the largest in that group. Shutter-controlled high-intensity headlights on high and low beams shine 50-percent farther down the road, and the 18-LED system in each taillights is much quicker responding to brake input. The Bluetooth system allows hands-free cell-phone use, without even using the cell phone, as long as it’s on board and has been coded into the system.

Also noteworthy are the increased interior room in all dimensions, and the increased safety of supplemental side-curtain airbags to protect occupants’ heads, and top ratings for front, side and offset collisions, and even collapsible hood hinges and fender brackets are designed to cushion pedestrians who might be hit by a TL.

Chances are, any pedestrian who gets close to a new Acura TL will only be trying to get closer to listen to the tunes.
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Old 10-03-2003, 03:37 PM
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The Acura TL, the completely renovated mainstream mid-luxury sedan from Honda, sports the best sound system ever put in a car.
Thats kind of a pretty strong quote, I hope it is true
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Old 10-03-2003, 04:35 PM
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Apparently it must not suffer from the same door-panel-rattle problem on the TSX.
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Old 10-03-2003, 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by XPLORx4
Apparently it must not suffer from the same door-panel-rattle problem on the TSX.
I hope not
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Old 10-03-2003, 11:02 PM
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The Acura TL, the completely renovated mainstream mid-luxury sedan from Honda, sports the best sound system ever put in a car.



Uhhh, yeahhhh, righhhht.
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Old 10-03-2003, 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by XPLORx4
Apparently it must not suffer from the same door-panel-rattle problem on the TSX.
Not so far. Will keep ya posted.
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Old 10-05-2003, 11:47 AM
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The only reason ELS MAY be better than Mark Levinson is because of it's DVD-A. That is it. It's amazing the sound that comes out on a Mark Levinson stereo in a Lexus and if Lexus every decided to do a Mark Levinson DVD-A system. The ELS would not even come close to comparing.
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Old 10-05-2003, 12:29 PM
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I can't figure out why they went with DVD-A instead of SACD. As far as I know the battle between these two formats is over and SACD is the winner.
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Old 10-06-2003, 10:44 AM
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Acura considering V8, 400HP Hybrids, AWD, Superchargers/Turbochargers, but not RWD

Acura works to move product mix upscale; V-8 power essential, critics say


By KATHY JACKSON | Automotive News

SEATTLE -- Tom Elliott is counting on the new Acura TL to help bring the division out of a sales slump.

Of the six largest luxury marques in this country, Acura was the only one to suffer a sales decline through the first nine months of the year. The TL, which goes on sale today, Oct. 6, can help.

Elliott, who is executive vice president of auto operations for American Honda Motor Co. Inc., predicts that the TL will help Acura set a sales record this year of 180,000 units. That would be an achievement. Acura's sales dropped 2.9 percent in 2002 and were down 2.2 percent through Sept. 30 of this year.

Some critics say Acura will never be a true luxury marque until it offers upscale rear-wheel-drive vehicles and V-8 engines. The TL runs counter to this theory - it's a front-wheel-drive car powered by a V-6 engine.

Critics argue that it will compete against vehicles such as the Nissan Maxima and Toyota Camry, rather than, say, the Lexus ES 300.

But Elliott says the market appeal of a V-8 is overblown. "I wouldn't say we won't do a V-8," he says. "It is one of the possibilities." But he admits that hybrids are the most likely route.

Elliott says Acura will decide how to increase power on each product in the next six months. "We're really close to making a decision on a hybrid," he says. Such a vehicle could be powered by a 300-hp engine in the front plus a 100-hp electric motor in back.

He also says the company is considering all-wheel drive, superchargers and turbochargers, but not rwd. But critics say a V-8 is essential.

Consider the slow-selling RL sedan, Acura's $50,000 flagship. RL sales were 7,557 through the end of September, down 27.8 percent from the same period in 2002.

The vehicle's 225-hp V-6 engine does not impress consumers, says Jim Wangers, president of Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc. in Vista, Calif.

"It's not so much the power but the image," Wangers says. "The price of entry in the luxury segment is a V-8, not a hybrid or a V-6. Hybrids are not accepted mainstream cars yet."

Says Daniel Gorrell, vice president for automotive of Strategic Vision in Tustin, Calif. "If they're going to be in competition with Mercedes and BMW, they need a flagship, and RL is not that. I don't see them being a serious luxury top-rung contender."

Undeterred by critics, Elliott is gradually moving Acura's product mix upscale. For example, the company is reducing production of its entry-level RSX, which debuted in 2001.

"The RSX is for young people, but we will limit the sales because we want to bring the brand up," Elliott says. "What we will do next is fix the RL. We want it to go upscale. It needs more power, more style. It will be totally redone, and part of that will be more power."

For the moment, Acura dealers are defending the company's product lineup. "There's no question that the TL is upscale and doesn't compete against Hondas," says Jerry Britain, general manager of Downey Acura in Downey, Calif.

Britain also doesn't think V-8s are necessary, saying that the Acura V-6s are reliable, reasonably priced and handle well.

"The other luxury brands are dramatically more expensive, and they don't really have more creature comforts," he says. "The only problem I have is that I don't have enough vehicles."
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Old 10-06-2003, 10:51 AM
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"For example, the company is reducing production of its entry-level RSX, which debuted in 2001. - The RSX is for young people, but we will limit the sales because we want to bring the brand up," Elliott says."

THAT'S HUGE NEWS in my opinion. That tells you that there will be big changes within Acura's product mix. And I personally, agree with that move.
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Old 10-06-2003, 10:53 AM
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more upscale high end sports cars!!! i'm not complaining!
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Old 10-06-2003, 10:55 AM
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THat guy is an idiot and I have no idea how he became vice-president. It is obvious he knows NOTHING about luxury cars nor anything about the market and the people that buy em.

Great, they slow production of a slow selling cheap car (hell u can get a 350Z or RX-8, WRX, SRT-4 etc) and make another cheap one (the TSX). WHat sense does his statment make?

U can PRICE your cars upmarket but if they are missing upmarket features, it won't be taken seriously.

Damn, I could run the joint....
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Old 10-06-2003, 12:41 PM
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Did Acura steal Elliot from Cadillac back in the mid 90s? The guy clearly has no clue what the market wants. Heck, even Cadillac has gotten its act together. Acura needs a V8 and either AWD or even better RWD to compete with Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and Infiniti. A V6 wont cut it in the high end luxury arena, which Elliot states he is going after.
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Old 10-06-2003, 12:42 PM
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Re: Acura considering V8, 400HP Hybrids, AWD, Superchargers/Turbochargers, but not RWD

Originally posted by gavriil Some critics say Acura will never be a true luxury marque until it offers upscale rear-wheel-drive vehicles and V-8 engines. The TL runs counter to this theory - it's a front-wheel-drive car powered by a V-6 engine.

Critics argue that it will compete against vehicles such as the Nissan Maxima and Toyota Camry, rather than, say, the Lexus ES 300.

But Elliott says the market appeal of a V-8 is overblown. "I wouldn't say we won't do a V-8," he says. "It is one of the possibilities." But he admits that hybrids are the most likely route.

Elliott says Acura will decide how to increase power on each product in the next six months. "We're really close to making a decision on a hybrid," he says. Such a vehicle could be powered by a 300-hp engine in the front plus a 100-hp electric motor in back.

He also says the company is considering all-wheel drive, superchargers and turbochargers, but not rwd. But critics say a V-8 is essential.

"It's not so much the power but the image," Wangers says. "The price of entry in the luxury segment is a V-8, not a hybrid or a V-6. Hybrids are not accepted mainstream cars yet."

Undeterred by critics, Elliott is gradually moving Acura's product mix upscale. For example, the company is reducing production of its entry-level RSX, which debuted in 2001.

"The RSX is for young people, but we will limit the sales because we want to bring the brand up," Elliott says. "What we will do next is fix the RL. We want it to go upscale. It needs more power, more style. It will be totally redone, and part of that will be more power."
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these critics sounds like a bunch of idiots. i bet they believe the es330 is rwd with that example made and hows a 400hp awd hybrid not good enough but a rwd v8 is, retarded. i dont see how limiting sales of the current rsx is good, should wait till the next model and just move it upscale as a tsx coupe.
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