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Old 09-01-2004, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Ok since you've been so generous with new info, I'll share some insider steel info.

*** Exclusive: Local mills are expecting to announce a 5% price drop on 1018 and 1045 grade cold drawn steel next month! ***


There! Now don't tell anybody or it's going to end up on SteelSpies.com... those thieving bastards!




I just e-mailed CNN, your busted Dan.
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Old 09-01-2004, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Ok since you've been so generous with new info, I'll share some insider steel info.

*** Exclusive: Local mills are expecting to announce a 5% price drop on 1018 and 1045 grade cold drawn steel next month! ***


There! Now don't tell anybody or it's going to end up on SteelSpies.com... those thieving bastards!





So are steel prices finally coming down?

I'm wondering when this China bubble is gonna pop.
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Old 09-01-2004, 11:46 AM
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I think this is just a dip in the road. Stelpipe announced layoff warnings for October 31st because it feels it will not be able to get enough material to sustain the mill. 400 employees will be laid off if that comes true and steel prices will take yet another jump.

I've been hearing about price reductions for the last 6 months but they fact is I haven't seen one yet. If they tell me 5% off that usually means 10% raw materials increase increase and a 5% reduction in my scrap surcharge so the net effect is still an increase.
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Old 09-01-2004, 12:14 PM
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Unless it changes dramatically, car makers would eat any price change in steel prices and not change the price of the car.
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Old 10-11-2004, 09:37 AM
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More with Four: Acura set to use all-wheel drive on more of its cars - - By YUZO YAMAGUCHI | Automotive News - - Source: Autoweek


TOKYO -- Acura will use all-wheel drive on more of its cars, says Takeo Fukui, president of Honda Motor Co.

The redesigned 2005 RL sedan, which will go on sale on Thursday, Oct. 14, is the first Acura car equipped with awd. The MDX SUV has awd.

With awd, "we'll distinguish Acura from Honda," said Fukui at a press event here last week. He didn't say which Acuras will get awd or when.

The awd would fit a V6 engine of 3.0 liters or more, says Yasuji Shibahata, Honda's senior chief engineer who led development of the awd system. So the Acura TL and NSX also could be candidates for awd.

The Acura lineup includes the RL, TL, TSX, RSX and NSX cars. The RL offers 300 hp, followed by the TL's 270 hp and the NSX's 252 or 290 hp.

The key component of Acura's awd system is the rear differential. It uses electromagnetic clutches to send up to 70 percent of the engine's torque to the front or rear wheels. The differential also can send up to 100 percent of the rear-wheel torque to either side. Most awd systems capable of adjusting torque shift it only between the front and rear wheels and not from side to side.

Honda wants to sell 20,000 of the $49,470 RLs in the United States each year. The price includes destination.

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Old 10-11-2004, 09:38 AM
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My first thought here was this:

If the SHAWD system supports (at least) a 3.0 liter engine and because we know that there were strong rumors that the TSX will get AWD, does that mean that the TSX will get a V6 engine of at least 3.0 liters?

I think it would makes sense and it's possible.
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Old 10-11-2004, 09:57 AM
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So is the NSX officially dead or?....
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Old 10-11-2004, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mantis23
So is the NSX officially dead or?....

Confusing as always. I stopped trying to figure it out a long while ago. Whatever they'll do, eventually, we'll know.
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Old 10-11-2004, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
My first thought here was this:

If the SHAWD system supports (at least) a 3.0 liter engine and because we know that there were strong rumors that the TSX will get AWD, does that mean that the TSX will get a V6 engine of at least 3.0 liters?

I think it would makes sense and it's possible.

That's what I was thinking. Since the TL now makes 270HP, and the TSX makes 200HP, There's plenty of room to upgrade to a 3.0 V6 without steppin on the TL's toes. maybe a 3.0 or 3.2 in the 225-245HP range. Woud they put the old RL's V6 (225HP) in the TSX, or possibly the Accords (240HP), which would be a better fit anyway, since the TSX is the Euro Accord.
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:15 PM
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The RL's V6 is dead and won't be coming back....it's too big at 3.5L for the TSX and it's oldschool...from the 2nd gen Legend days. Since the TSX is an Accord I would expect to see the 3.0 (240 hp) in it.
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Old 10-11-2004, 01:12 PM
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I think maybe a high revving/performance I-4 for the TSX. A V-6 would make that lil car very nose heavy and destroy it's great handling capabilities.
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Old 10-11-2004, 01:29 PM
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But since we are on the AWD discussion the extra weight of the system in the rear would offset a V6 in the front.
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Old 10-11-2004, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by titan
That's what I was thinking. Since the TL now makes 270HP, and the TSX makes 200HP, There's plenty of room to upgrade to a 3.0 V6 without steppin on the TL's toes. maybe a 3.0 or 3.2 in the 225-245HP range. Woud they put the old RL's V6 (225HP) in the TSX, or possibly the Accords (240HP), which would be a better fit anyway, since the TSX is the Euro Accord.

The 3.0 liter from the USAmerican accord would be perfect for the AWD TSX. As long as there are no mechanical issues (fit, architecture, etc.)
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Old 10-11-2004, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I think maybe a high revving/performance I-4 for the TSX. A V-6 would make that lil car very nose heavy and destroy it's great handling capabilities.

I dont know about that. I mean right now with the 2.4 standard, it's not like it's that far off of a 3.0 liter V6's total weight.
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Old 10-11-2004, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LegendC
But since we are on the AWD discussion the extra weight of the system in the rear would offset a V6 in the front.

True.
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Old 10-12-2004, 12:19 PM
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Maybe Honda engr's had to replan the HSC because they now want to integrate the SHAWD system into the HSC.

I mean think about this one for a sec, if the RL has SHAWD featured in Acura's flagship luxury cruiser, buyer's of Acura's next supercar would tend to want this feature as well. I think the strategic move to so called "scrap" the HSC is now much more clearer in retrospect with the introduction of the new RL.

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Old 10-12-2004, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by KavexTrax
Maybe Honda engr's had to replan the HSC because they now want to integrate the SHAWD system into the HSC.

I mean think about this one for a sec, if the RL has SHAWD featured in Acura's flagship luxury cruiser, buyer's of Acura's next supercar would tend to want this feature as well. I think the strategic move to so called "scrap" the HSC is now much more clearer in retrospect with the introduction of the new RL.


I don't agree. I think buyers in that segment would want RWD. If it were a touring coupe, then sure...but for a sports car which will (hopefully) be competing with the likes of Ferarri, RWD would be prefered.
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Old 10-12-2004, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuraFan
I don't agree. I think buyers in that segment would want RWD. If it were a touring coupe, then sure...but for a sports car which will (hopefully) be competing with the likes of Ferarri, RWD would be prefered.
yep, thats why everyone HATES the Lamborghini Gallardo...because its awd and all that

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Old 10-12-2004, 03:25 PM
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I think that AWD and RWD are both equally acceptable when it comes to a super car. Personally, I would prefer AWD since it's a hell of a lot more grippy & practical. Oh, wait, isn't that what Acura has always wanted with the NSX? A practical sports car?

I'm near positive that the car that replaces the NSX will be AWD.
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Old 10-12-2004, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
The 3.0 liter from the USAmerican accord would be perfect for the AWD TSX. As long as there are no mechanical issues (fit, architecture, etc.)
That's what I thought... And it makes perfect sense. Giving the TSX the Accords V6 would work perfectly in Acura's lineup, giving the TSX more torque and a 40HP boost, while still not stepping on the TL's toes.
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Old 10-12-2004, 04:14 PM
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Think Honda is too conservative to give the TSX a v6.
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Old 10-12-2004, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bkknight369
yep, thats why everyone HATES the Lamborghini Gallardo...because its awd and all that

Then why do people love the 911 Turbo?
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Old 10-12-2004, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by heyitsme
Think Honda is too conservative to give the TSX a v6.
Nah, I don't think so. Acura wants to differeniate themselves from Honda by being AWD. If the AWD system supports V6 of 3.0L or more, then it's logical for them to put the V6 from the Accord into the TSX. It's a proven engine, already used for U.S. consumption, and since the TSX is nothing more than the Euro Accord, it'll fit in there perfectly. I think it's a great idea.
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Old 10-12-2004, 06:33 PM
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If that was their intention, why introduce a 2.4l at all in the us market? The euro accord platform doesn't use a v6 anywhere in the world.
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Old 10-12-2004, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Black CL-S 4-Life
Then why do people love the 911 Turbo?

Product differentiation would be a good thing. If a product stands out from the rest of the pack, then it's more likely to build and capitalize on it's own niche market.
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Old 10-13-2004, 01:10 AM
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perhaps the 3.0L is for the rumored RD-X? I'd much rather see it in the TSX however...
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:04 AM
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Acura and AWD

More with Four: Acura set to use all-wheel drive on more of its cars
YUZO YAMAGUCHI | Automotive News
Posted Date: 10/11/04
TOKYO -- Acura will use all-wheel drive on more of its cars, says Takeo Fukui, president of Honda Motor Co.

The redesigned 2005 RL sedan, which will go on sale on Thursday, Oct. 14, is the first Acura car equipped with awd. The MDX SUV has awd.

With awd, "we'll distinguish Acura from Honda," said Fukui at a press event here last week. He didn't say which Acuras will get awd or when.

The awd would fit a V6 engine of 3.0 liters or more, says Yasuji Shibahata, Honda's senior chief engineer who led development of the awd system. So the Acura TL and NSX also could be candidates for awd.

The Acura lineup includes the RL, TL, TSX, RSX and NSX cars. The RL offers 300 hp, followed by the TL's 270 hp and the NSX's 252 or 290 hp.

The key component of Acura's awd system is the rear differential. It uses electromagnetic clutches to send up to 70 percent of the engine's torque to the front or rear wheels. The differential also can send up to 100 percent of the rear-wheel torque to either side. Most awd systems capable of adjusting torque shift it only between the front and rear wheels and not from side to side.

Honda wants to sell 20,000 of the $49,470 RLs in the United States each year. The price includes destination.
So I guess as long as the TSX has an I4 we won't see SH-AWD, bummer.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:10 AM
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i think a AWD TL might be a purchase to consider in a couple years.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:14 AM
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There was a good interview with the lead engineer responsible for the SH-AWD project and he said that it's just too heavy to consider for anything other than luxury cars. I'm sure whatever goes on the RDX will fit our car though.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:24 AM
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This definitely will heavily distinguish the Acuras and Hondas.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:26 AM
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sounds like a pretty good brand strategy to me. Most Honda's really don't need AWD as they target a different buyer. An AWD NSX could help it get back in the exotic game too.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:33 AM
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I think eventually, AWD will be added to the TSX and others in the line-up such as the TL. The JDM Accord has an AWD version....its just a matter of a few years.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:41 AM
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TSX with a supercharger and AWD would be fun as hell.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:45 AM
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Nice strategy..
Similar to Infiniti trying to brand its image as luxury/sporty RWD cars..
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:07 AM
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Mmm...AWD for the Acuras...

Gives me something to look forward to when I start considering my next car.
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:54 AM
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Acura needs a ~$30k AWD small sedan to compete with the A4, so why not throw AWD on the TSX? The 1.8T Quattro A4 is dog-ass slow, so who cares that an AWD TSX would be slow too.
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Old 10-13-2004, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Davediego
perhaps the 3.0L is for the rumored RD-X? I'd much rather see it in the TSX however...
the rdx will more than likely get the 4wd from the mdx or crv. There is no need for super handling in a suv (well for the normal consumer at least)
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:11 PM
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Automotive forgot to put "SH-AWD" on the article. Since AWD is nothing new in the Japanese market, JDM Accord, Civic, Odyssey etc. all have AWD variants.
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Davediego
perhaps the 3.0L is for the rumored RD-X? I'd much rather see it in the TSX however...
It's my understanding that the RDX will use the 2.4 and IMA to produce it's power. But I think the 3.0 IMA from the hybrid Accord would be perfect for this SUV. I think this would put the RDX in the same league as the RX400h. This would force the MDX to go a little more upmarket and maybe get the powertrain from the new RL.
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Old 10-14-2004, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Black CL-S 4-Life
Then why do people love the 911 Turbo?
Why can no one understand my scarcasm...maybe im too subtle
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