2004 JD Powers IQ Results **GM's Lansing Grand River Wins as Best Assembly Plant**
04-28-2004, 11:56 AM
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Brand new JD Powers Initial Quality results just posted 1pm EST!
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2004037
(many more graphs and info in the article)
Keep in mind Initial Quality can be vastly different than the more important survey JD Powers does which is the one that tracks issues over the course of 3-4 years of ownership.
(many more graphs and info in the article)
Keep in mind Initial Quality can be vastly different than the more important survey JD Powers does which is the one that tracks issues over the course of 3-4 years of ownership.
04-28-2004, 12:45 PM
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I’m very surprised to see Hyundai & Jaguar so high.
And cars like the Ford Mustang & Dodge Stratus listed as top “reliable” sports cars.
Hummer on the bottom…..That’s an obvious choice for that overpriced Tonka toy Chevy.
And cars like the Ford Mustang & Dodge Stratus listed as top “reliable” sports cars.
Hummer on the bottom…..That’s an obvious choice for that overpriced Tonka toy Chevy.
04-28-2004, 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by Crazy Sellout
Well ill be damned, Audi is closer to the top.
So does this show what JD predicts?
Well ill be damned, Audi is closer to the top.
So does this show what JD predicts?
I don't see many surprises really - most luxury cars will be built with more care and initial quality. The German cars will be down the chart quite a bit when they post the 3-4 year ownership study.
04-28-2004, 01:32 PM
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Compared to last year though, Acura is way down:
http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...asp?ID=2003028
Could be all the technology they push into the new TL is affecting how bug-free it is at delivery.
Customer brand retention survey from last December is interesting:
http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...asp?ID=2003175
http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...asp?ID=2003028
Could be all the technology they push into the new TL is affecting how bug-free it is at delivery.
Customer brand retention survey from last December is interesting:
http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...asp?ID=2003175
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04-28-2004, 01:50 PM
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Power: Initial Quality All-Time High - - 2004 J.D. Power survey: pleasant surprises – and unexpected disappointments.
- - - by Paul A. Eisenstein (2004-04-28) - - Source: The Car Connection
New car quality has hit an all-time high, with all but a handful of manufacturers making significant gains in the 2004 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey.
The oft-quoted annual report, released today, delivers some unexpected surprises, showing how difficult it's become for any carmaker to dominate the quality charts anymore. Undoubtedly the biggest shocker comes from Korea. Long the industry laggard, Hyundai has soared past the traditional quality leader, Toyota. And even the Japanese automaker's premium brand is now getting some stiff competition - from Buick.
For 2004, Power's IQS reveals an 11-percent reduction in the number of problems the typical U.S. new car owner reported when compared to the 2003 survey. That is a positive development, especially as the quality numbers showed no gains in the previous two years.
"This is one of the more significant improvements we've seen," noted Power senior analyst Brian Walters.
What went wrong, Japan?
The IQS is a measure of what can be called "things gone wrong." That can include major problems, such as a blown engine, as well as more minor matters, including poorly placed cupholders. The survey counts up the number of problems participating owners experienced during the first 90 days of ownership, grouping them into nine separate categories. The final figure is calculated in terms of problems per 100 vehicles, or PP100s. Like golf, this contest goes to the lowest score.
And over the decades, the Japanese have consistently delivered industry-leading quality. This year, their products had a score of 111 PP100s, compared with 119 for the industry as a whole. Among individual manufacturers, Lexus was the brand to beat, with a score of 87, meaning less than one problem per vehicle.
Yet the Japanese do not dominate like they have in the past. Some key manufacturers tumbled. Nissan slipped 11 percent, driving it down to the lower tier of the 36 manufacturers Power ranked. Then there's Toyota, the company that first taught the industry the concept of initial quality. In the 2003 survey, the flagship Toyota brand actually suffered a 7-percent decline. It recovers in 2004, its initial quality gaining 14 percent, to 104 problems per 100 vehicles.
Hyundai stuns, Europe falls
But Toyota's gains weren't enough to overcome the most stunning come-from-behind performance of the year. With what Walters called a "surprising" 29-percent improvement, Hyundai sees its problem count drop to 102.
Until recently, Korean makers have anchored the IQS and other quality surveys. In 1998, when Power redesigned the Initial Quality Survey, they had a score of 272, nearly double the problems of the Japanese, at 156. This year, they surge to second place, with a group score of 117 PP100s, comfortably ahead of both Europeans and American automakers.
That underscores just how rapidly things are changing. In 1998, the Europeans, as a group, edged out the Japanese, led by luxury industry stalwarts Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Mercedes has had a number of serious quality problems in recent years, though it does show signs of a turnaround in the 2004 IQS, its score improving 20 percent.
Luxury makers regularly outscore mainstream brands, as one might expect. With a score of 87 this year, Lexus has again proven the brand to beat on the IQS, but several of its competitors are edging closer. Cadillac delivers a count of 93 problems per 100. And with several specific products, another General Motors division nudges even closer to Lexus territory. The Buick Century, which Walters described as "one of the best models in the industry," comes in with 63 PP100.
Individual products came make - or break - a manufacturer's overall score, as Porsche painfully discovered. Its 911 is the top-quality nameplate in the Premium Sports Car category, but overall, Porsche experiences a 36-percent decline, to 159 PP100s, due to the troubled debut of its Cayenne SUV.
"In the past, it was always a risk to buy a new vehicle," said Walters, yet despite the Cayenne's problems, "Our data now show there's less of risk in buying a vehicle its first year out on the market."
F-150 gets better
Among the new or significantly updated products covered in the 2004 IQS, the decline in quality is a modest 3 problems per 100. And several new vehicles actually improve, underscoring the basic tenet of the IQS, said Walters, that quality needs to be designed into a vehicle, not fixed at the end of the assembly line.
Perhaps the most striking example of that is the all-new Ford F-Series pickup. The 2004 F-150 comes a close second to Toyota Tundra, tying Cadillac's Escalade EXT for second in the Light-Duty Full-Size Pickup category. Ford's new truck edged out the "classic" F-150, which remains in production, by 1 PP100.
While Detroit automakers may be stuck in last place on a regional basis, domestic automakers have plenty to crow about with products like the new F-Series, the Buick Century and Chevrolet's Monte Carlo - second among premium mid-size sedans, and ahead of both the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.
American makers, unfortunately, also have some of the worst products on the new IQS, however. HUMMER anchors the list, at 173 problems, though that is still up 23 percent from the 2003 survey.
There was a time when the typical American motorist could expect to endure a whole series of problems with a brand-new automobile. These days, even the worst models on the IQS list are relatively problem-free. Some defects, such as blown engines and transmissions, have virtually vanished from the survey forms owners fill out for Power.
In a way, that's making the IQS almost irrelevant. "It's so darned close, it doesn't have the same impact it did 10 or 20 years ago," suggested Louise Goeser, the executive in charge of Ford Motor Co.'s quality campaign.
Power analyst Walters does not disagree. As cars get better and better "out of the box," the focus is shifting towards long-term reliability - which Power measures in another survey. After three years in service, there are still some distinct differences between the best and the worst manufacturers, though even there, quality continues to show significant gains.
And that's good news for American motorists.
- - - by Paul A. Eisenstein (2004-04-28) - - Source: The Car Connection
New car quality has hit an all-time high, with all but a handful of manufacturers making significant gains in the 2004 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey.
The oft-quoted annual report, released today, delivers some unexpected surprises, showing how difficult it's become for any carmaker to dominate the quality charts anymore. Undoubtedly the biggest shocker comes from Korea. Long the industry laggard, Hyundai has soared past the traditional quality leader, Toyota. And even the Japanese automaker's premium brand is now getting some stiff competition - from Buick.
For 2004, Power's IQS reveals an 11-percent reduction in the number of problems the typical U.S. new car owner reported when compared to the 2003 survey. That is a positive development, especially as the quality numbers showed no gains in the previous two years.
"This is one of the more significant improvements we've seen," noted Power senior analyst Brian Walters.
What went wrong, Japan?
The IQS is a measure of what can be called "things gone wrong." That can include major problems, such as a blown engine, as well as more minor matters, including poorly placed cupholders. The survey counts up the number of problems participating owners experienced during the first 90 days of ownership, grouping them into nine separate categories. The final figure is calculated in terms of problems per 100 vehicles, or PP100s. Like golf, this contest goes to the lowest score.
And over the decades, the Japanese have consistently delivered industry-leading quality. This year, their products had a score of 111 PP100s, compared with 119 for the industry as a whole. Among individual manufacturers, Lexus was the brand to beat, with a score of 87, meaning less than one problem per vehicle.
Yet the Japanese do not dominate like they have in the past. Some key manufacturers tumbled. Nissan slipped 11 percent, driving it down to the lower tier of the 36 manufacturers Power ranked. Then there's Toyota, the company that first taught the industry the concept of initial quality. In the 2003 survey, the flagship Toyota brand actually suffered a 7-percent decline. It recovers in 2004, its initial quality gaining 14 percent, to 104 problems per 100 vehicles.
Hyundai stuns, Europe falls
But Toyota's gains weren't enough to overcome the most stunning come-from-behind performance of the year. With what Walters called a "surprising" 29-percent improvement, Hyundai sees its problem count drop to 102.
Until recently, Korean makers have anchored the IQS and other quality surveys. In 1998, when Power redesigned the Initial Quality Survey, they had a score of 272, nearly double the problems of the Japanese, at 156. This year, they surge to second place, with a group score of 117 PP100s, comfortably ahead of both Europeans and American automakers.
That underscores just how rapidly things are changing. In 1998, the Europeans, as a group, edged out the Japanese, led by luxury industry stalwarts Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Mercedes has had a number of serious quality problems in recent years, though it does show signs of a turnaround in the 2004 IQS, its score improving 20 percent.
Luxury makers regularly outscore mainstream brands, as one might expect. With a score of 87 this year, Lexus has again proven the brand to beat on the IQS, but several of its competitors are edging closer. Cadillac delivers a count of 93 problems per 100. And with several specific products, another General Motors division nudges even closer to Lexus territory. The Buick Century, which Walters described as "one of the best models in the industry," comes in with 63 PP100.
Individual products came make - or break - a manufacturer's overall score, as Porsche painfully discovered. Its 911 is the top-quality nameplate in the Premium Sports Car category, but overall, Porsche experiences a 36-percent decline, to 159 PP100s, due to the troubled debut of its Cayenne SUV.
"In the past, it was always a risk to buy a new vehicle," said Walters, yet despite the Cayenne's problems, "Our data now show there's less of risk in buying a vehicle its first year out on the market."
F-150 gets better
Among the new or significantly updated products covered in the 2004 IQS, the decline in quality is a modest 3 problems per 100. And several new vehicles actually improve, underscoring the basic tenet of the IQS, said Walters, that quality needs to be designed into a vehicle, not fixed at the end of the assembly line.
Perhaps the most striking example of that is the all-new Ford F-Series pickup. The 2004 F-150 comes a close second to Toyota Tundra, tying Cadillac's Escalade EXT for second in the Light-Duty Full-Size Pickup category. Ford's new truck edged out the "classic" F-150, which remains in production, by 1 PP100.
While Detroit automakers may be stuck in last place on a regional basis, domestic automakers have plenty to crow about with products like the new F-Series, the Buick Century and Chevrolet's Monte Carlo - second among premium mid-size sedans, and ahead of both the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.
American makers, unfortunately, also have some of the worst products on the new IQS, however. HUMMER anchors the list, at 173 problems, though that is still up 23 percent from the 2003 survey.
There was a time when the typical American motorist could expect to endure a whole series of problems with a brand-new automobile. These days, even the worst models on the IQS list are relatively problem-free. Some defects, such as blown engines and transmissions, have virtually vanished from the survey forms owners fill out for Power.
In a way, that's making the IQS almost irrelevant. "It's so darned close, it doesn't have the same impact it did 10 or 20 years ago," suggested Louise Goeser, the executive in charge of Ford Motor Co.'s quality campaign.
Power analyst Walters does not disagree. As cars get better and better "out of the box," the focus is shifting towards long-term reliability - which Power measures in another survey. After three years in service, there are still some distinct differences between the best and the worst manufacturers, though even there, quality continues to show significant gains.
And that's good news for American motorists.
04-28-2004, 01:51 PM
#9
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I'm really surprised to see Jaguar up so high...even though we never had any real problems with our '97 and '99 VDPs.
But the '04 XJs are completely different cars now.
But the '04 XJs are completely different cars now.
04-28-2004, 02:08 PM
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Personal points:
1. Lexus. Oh! What's the one word that describes this trent for them? Dominant! ? They just OWN the place for a decade now.
2. Cadillac and Jaguar! Good job. I am sure Cadillac will have issues in the next 1-2 years due to all these new models coming out.
3. Honda. Sure. As someone said, how could Honda fair better than Acura. I would be firing people today at Acura, if I were running it. Regardless of the comparison, Honda has been so consistent though in the top 4-5 for so long. Good for them. It aint easy to sell so many cars and be high on this list. It's one thing to be Lexus and be number one and it's another to be Ford and be number 1. Which makes it even worse for Acura.
4. Buick is getting consistently great at this point! So they have the happy customers, now let's build the great product and go against Lexus. 5 years from now, we'll know.
5. Mercury! Where did that come from? Looking at Ford being so low down on the list...and thinking they are using "Ford everything"...I dont get it. I guess they are different.
6. Hyundai. I open the door of my hotel room and pick up the USA Today today off the floor. BIG FAT title on the front page: "Hyundai kicks ass in JD Power..." paraphrasing of course. Read the article...thought of the forum, but could not log in at that point. I still cannot believe they did this. Good for them.
7. Toyota....what happened? Slipping ah?
8. Super surprised at Mercedes Benz making the jump. I dont know what to think! Was it one specific model that was screwing up? People were talking about the ML...I dont know what to think, though I am sceptical about consistency, as all should be.
9. Same with Audi. They were way low during the past few years. Good to see them back.
10. Acura. What a shame! And I know it aint the TL screwing them. It's way too new to screw the numbers for them. What was it? The TSX?
11. Chevy made it above industry average. Wow! And they dont even have product yet.
12. Lincoln. What happened this year?
13. Ford you POS!
14. MINI. Pathetic. With ONE model and a an exciting at that, how can you not have happy customers in the fist 90 days?! I dont get it. Failure at best is what this should be described as.
15. Saab does not get, do they?
16. What happened to Nissan. Why all these problems? Well...of course, they did have sooo many new models, but still. THat's pretty bad performance there.
17. Scion. I am thinking of the same thing as with the MINI brand. Two models in ONE state and Toyota as the mother. How can you screw up so bad?!
18. Now this I dont understand. Porsche used to be in the top for a few years now. And it cant be the Cayenne cos it has been out for some time now. I dont get this one. It must be the Cayenne.
19. VW. When is the bleeding going to end? Is there ANYTHING good about VW these days? Do they have ANYTHING to show for themselves? I cant think of anything currently.
Finally, I can hear the HUMMER execs seeing this report and saying "we dont give a shit!"
1. Lexus. Oh! What's the one word that describes this trent for them? Dominant! ? They just OWN the place for a decade now.
2. Cadillac and Jaguar! Good job. I am sure Cadillac will have issues in the next 1-2 years due to all these new models coming out.
3. Honda. Sure. As someone said, how could Honda fair better than Acura. I would be firing people today at Acura, if I were running it. Regardless of the comparison, Honda has been so consistent though in the top 4-5 for so long. Good for them. It aint easy to sell so many cars and be high on this list. It's one thing to be Lexus and be number one and it's another to be Ford and be number 1. Which makes it even worse for Acura.
4. Buick is getting consistently great at this point! So they have the happy customers, now let's build the great product and go against Lexus. 5 years from now, we'll know.
5. Mercury! Where did that come from? Looking at Ford being so low down on the list...and thinking they are using "Ford everything"...I dont get it. I guess they are different.
6. Hyundai. I open the door of my hotel room and pick up the USA Today today off the floor. BIG FAT title on the front page: "Hyundai kicks ass in JD Power..." paraphrasing of course. Read the article...thought of the forum, but could not log in at that point. I still cannot believe they did this. Good for them.
7. Toyota....what happened? Slipping ah?
8. Super surprised at Mercedes Benz making the jump. I dont know what to think! Was it one specific model that was screwing up? People were talking about the ML...I dont know what to think, though I am sceptical about consistency, as all should be.
9. Same with Audi. They were way low during the past few years. Good to see them back.
10. Acura. What a shame! And I know it aint the TL screwing them. It's way too new to screw the numbers for them. What was it? The TSX?
11. Chevy made it above industry average. Wow! And they dont even have product yet.
12. Lincoln. What happened this year?
13. Ford you POS!
14. MINI. Pathetic. With ONE model and a an exciting at that, how can you not have happy customers in the fist 90 days?! I dont get it. Failure at best is what this should be described as.
15. Saab does not get, do they?
16. What happened to Nissan. Why all these problems? Well...of course, they did have sooo many new models, but still. THat's pretty bad performance there.
17. Scion. I am thinking of the same thing as with the MINI brand. Two models in ONE state and Toyota as the mother. How can you screw up so bad?!
18. Now this I dont understand. Porsche used to be in the top for a few years now. And it cant be the Cayenne cos it has been out for some time now. I dont get this one. It must be the Cayenne.
19. VW. When is the bleeding going to end? Is there ANYTHING good about VW these days? Do they have ANYTHING to show for themselves? I cant think of anything currently.
Finally, I can hear the HUMMER execs seeing this report and saying "we dont give a shit!"
04-28-2004, 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by gavriil
Finally, I can hear the HUMMER execs seeing this report and saying "we dont give a shit!"
Finally, I can hear the HUMMER execs seeing this report and saying "we dont give a shit!"
04-28-2004, 02:40 PM
#12
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Originally posted by gavriil
17. Scion. I am thinking of the same thing as with the MINI brand. Two models in ONE state and Toyota as the mother. How can you screw up so bad?!
17. Scion. I am thinking of the same thing as with the MINI brand. Two models in ONE state and Toyota as the mother. How can you screw up so bad?!
19. VW. When is the bleeding going to end? Is there ANYTHING good about VW these days? Do they have ANYTHING to show for themselves? I cant think of anything currently.
04-28-2004, 03:09 PM
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Lord have mercy... crazy results here. I'm proud of Caddy and Jag... good for them. ;-) Can't believe Nissan's not higher, and frankly I'm a little dissappointed Infiniti's not higher. Happy to see Buick continues with the quailty products... now all they need are exciting and sexy products WITH that quality to compete with Lexus (hint, hint, VELITE).
04-28-2004, 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by fahoumh
I'm really surprised to see Jaguar up so high
I'm really surprised to see Jaguar up so high
04-28-2004, 04:58 PM
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Press Release: Toyota And Lexus Lead The Way In The 2004 J.D. Power And Associates In
Toyota And Lexus Lead The Way In The 2004 J.D. Power And Associates Initial Quality Study
04/28/2004 Torrance, CA
For the fifth consecutive year, Toyota is the top-ranked corporation in the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality StudySM while Lexus is the top nameplate for the fourth straight year. Overall, Toyota and Lexus garnered seven segment awards, more than any other corporation. Awards are given to vehicles in each segment that have the fewest problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) in the first 90 days of ownership.
"The quality bar is moving...and moving fast," said Bob Daly, group vice president of Toyota Customer Services. "It's moving beyond 'defects' toward customers" perceptions and preferences. It's not just whether something went wrong, but rather if everything was just right. This is an opportunity for us to work with our designers and engineers and continue to raise Toyota's quality benchmark to a new level."
The Toyota nameplate had 104 PP100, an improvement of 17 points, and moved from 9th place last year to tied for eighth this year. Segment leaders included the Corolla and Tundra, which are built in North America, and the 4Runner sport utility vehicle.
Lexus had the top three vehicles in the study. The SC 430 hardtop convertible set a new record for the fewest problems ever reported. It was followed by the LS 430 luxury sedan which had been the initial quality leader for seven consecutive years. The GS 300/430 was the third highest vehicle in the study and led its segment. The LX 470 luxury utility vehicle was the highest-ranked premium luxury SUV in the study and the RX 330 led the entry-luxury SUV segment. Production of the RX 330 began in Canada September of last year.
Two of Toyota's manufacturing plants also received awards. The Tahara Plant, which makes the LS 430 and GS 300/430 received the worldwide Platinum award and the Higashi-Fuji plant which manufactures the SC 430 and the Toyota Celica received the Asia Pacific Bronze award.
Toyota And Lexus Lead The Way In The 2004 J.D. Power And Associates Initial Quality Study
04/28/2004 Torrance, CA
For the fifth consecutive year, Toyota is the top-ranked corporation in the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality StudySM while Lexus is the top nameplate for the fourth straight year. Overall, Toyota and Lexus garnered seven segment awards, more than any other corporation. Awards are given to vehicles in each segment that have the fewest problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) in the first 90 days of ownership.
"The quality bar is moving...and moving fast," said Bob Daly, group vice president of Toyota Customer Services. "It's moving beyond 'defects' toward customers" perceptions and preferences. It's not just whether something went wrong, but rather if everything was just right. This is an opportunity for us to work with our designers and engineers and continue to raise Toyota's quality benchmark to a new level."
The Toyota nameplate had 104 PP100, an improvement of 17 points, and moved from 9th place last year to tied for eighth this year. Segment leaders included the Corolla and Tundra, which are built in North America, and the 4Runner sport utility vehicle.
Lexus had the top three vehicles in the study. The SC 430 hardtop convertible set a new record for the fewest problems ever reported. It was followed by the LS 430 luxury sedan which had been the initial quality leader for seven consecutive years. The GS 300/430 was the third highest vehicle in the study and led its segment. The LX 470 luxury utility vehicle was the highest-ranked premium luxury SUV in the study and the RX 330 led the entry-luxury SUV segment. Production of the RX 330 began in Canada September of last year.
Two of Toyota's manufacturing plants also received awards. The Tahara Plant, which makes the LS 430 and GS 300/430 received the worldwide Platinum award and the Higashi-Fuji plant which manufactures the SC 430 and the Toyota Celica received the Asia Pacific Bronze award.
04-28-2004, 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
How about we change the title to Hynadai beat luxury car maker Infiniti and Acura???? Toyota/Lexus still dominates with individual winners.
How about we change the title to Hynadai beat luxury car maker Infiniti and Acura???? Toyota/Lexus still dominates with individual winners.
04-28-2004, 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by shaHn78
I've always been a huge fan of Lexus cos of their quality/reliability but this 1SICK guy really makes me hate 'em :o
I've always been a huge fan of Lexus cos of their quality/reliability but this 1SICK guy really makes me hate 'em :o
04-28-2004, 08:10 PM
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Hahahaha... 1SICKLEX has some interesting shit to say occasionally but the partiality is a little too apparent at times.
Lexus and Honda are amazing, I wish Acura were up there too. VW is fucking sad, fuck Hummer, and kudos to Cadillac/Buick/Mercury for bringing up American names again.
And Hyundai... FUCK! I've been eyeing their concepts and pricing stuff, these guys are coming up fast and they know cut-throat competition as good as any other manufacturer. I believe they're the biggest throughout most of Asia. Rocking shit.
Now if they only made a car to get excited over.
Lexus and Honda are amazing, I wish Acura were up there too. VW is fucking sad, fuck Hummer, and kudos to Cadillac/Buick/Mercury for bringing up American names again.
And Hyundai... FUCK! I've been eyeing their concepts and pricing stuff, these guys are coming up fast and they know cut-throat competition as good as any other manufacturer. I believe they're the biggest throughout most of Asia. Rocking shit.
Now if they only made a car to get excited over.
American Honda is so screwed up. I'm sorry, I love my CLS, but AH has better quality on their mainstream line 
Whatever. 
04-28-2004, 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by JRock
Oh and just for the record, I did not put "**Hyundai beats Toyota**" in the thread title.
Oh and just for the record, I did not put "**Hyundai beats Toyota**" in the thread title.
PS: Your original title is on the first post still.
04-29-2004, 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by shaHn78
I've always been a huge fan of Lexus cos of their quality/reliability but this 1SICK guy really makes me hate 'em :o
I've always been a huge fan of Lexus cos of their quality/reliability but this 1SICK guy really makes me hate 'em :o
04-29-2004, 03:53 PM
#30
CLS 6MT Navi
To me this report is not as critical as the 3 year reliabiltiy report.
Still... seeing some of these makes ahead of Acura is disappointing and Acura just barely above average. It's harder to market a premium japanese brand that barely beats average.
I hope Acura is crying anyway cause the mainstream buyer sees these reports and many make buying decisions based on it. The Acura is still a very, very good new car, but from this list it sure isn't near the top. I think the 3 year reliability test is where Acura and Honda are always in the top 4.
I know the 2 03 Cls I've had had almost nothing wrong at all. brakes was one, but they were all replaced. Having had 2 CLs and everything worked perfectly on both is a good sign.
Still... seeing some of these makes ahead of Acura is disappointing and Acura just barely above average. It's harder to market a premium japanese brand that barely beats average.
I hope Acura is crying anyway cause the mainstream buyer sees these reports and many make buying decisions based on it. The Acura is still a very, very good new car, but from this list it sure isn't near the top. I think the 3 year reliability test is where Acura and Honda are always in the top 4.
I know the 2 03 Cls I've had had almost nothing wrong at all. brakes was one, but they were all replaced. Having had 2 CLs and everything worked perfectly on both is a good sign.
04-30-2004, 03:02 AM
#31
hail to the victors
Originally posted by goldmemberer
Hahahaha... 1SICKLEX has some interesting shit to say occasionally but the partiality is a little too apparent at times.
Lexus and Honda are amazing, I wish Acura were up there too. VW is fucking sad, fuck Hummer, and kudos to Cadillac/Buick/Mercury for bringing up American names again.
And Hyundai... FUCK! I've been eyeing their concepts and pricing stuff, these guys are coming up fast and they know cut-throat competition as good as any other manufacturer. I believe they're the biggest throughout most of Asia. Rocking shit.
Now if they only made a car to get excited over.
Hahahaha... 1SICKLEX has some interesting shit to say occasionally but the partiality is a little too apparent at times.
Lexus and Honda are amazing, I wish Acura were up there too. VW is fucking sad, fuck Hummer, and kudos to Cadillac/Buick/Mercury for bringing up American names again.
And Hyundai... FUCK! I've been eyeing their concepts and pricing stuff, these guys are coming up fast and they know cut-throat competition as good as any other manufacturer. I believe they're the biggest throughout most of Asia. Rocking shit.
Now if they only made a car to get excited over.
04-30-2004, 08:17 AM
#33
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I'm actually a little surprised by Porsche and Scion. I figured Porsche would be up by Audi or something. And I know Scion is new and all but I'd have though, being a Toyota, the quality would be closer to Toyota's.
04-30-2004, 10:08 AM
#34
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The whole thing is a little silly considering less than one problem seperates hummer from lexus. On paper the chart makes it looks like a big difference, in the real world, even hummer isn't bad.
04-30-2004, 10:33 AM
#36
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Originally posted by heyitsme
The whole thing is a little silly considering less than one problem seperates hummer from lexus. On paper the chart makes it looks like a big difference, in the real world, even hummer isn't bad.
The whole thing is a little silly considering less than one problem seperates hummer from lexus. On paper the chart makes it looks like a big difference, in the real world, even hummer isn't bad.
It's 173 vs 87 problems.
04-30-2004, 10:45 AM
#37
Shogun Assassin
Originally posted by gavriil
We have exhausted elaborating on this topic in the appropriate thread.
We have exhausted elaborating on this topic in the appropriate thread.
05-02-2004, 01:52 AM
#39
Suzuka Master
Hyundai Near Top of a Quality Ranking
Hyundai Near Top of a Quality Ranking
By DANNY HAKIM
Published: April 29, 2004
DETROIT, April 28 - For the first time, new-car buyers ranked Hyundai, the South Korean automaker, higher in initial quality than any domestic or European manufacturer, according to a survey released on Wednesday by J. D. Power & Associates
The result was a coup for Hyundai, which has been trying hard to upgrade its image from cheap to classy, or at least respectable, and close the gap between it and Toyota Motor and Honda Motor.
"A decade ago, as Korean manufacturers struggled with a universally poor reputation for vehicle quality," said Joe Ivers, executive director of quality and customer satisfaction at J. D. Power, a research firm, "no one would have predicted they could not only keep the pace, but actually pass domestics and other imports in terms of initial quality."
As a company, Toyota ranked first, followed closely by Honda and Hyundai, tied for second.
There are caveats, however. Hyundai's Kia brand continues to be a subpar performer in the initial-quality rankings. And in J. D. Power's most recent study of long-term reliability, which many in the industry consider to be a more important barometer, the Hyundai brand ranks near the bottom of the industry and Kia is dead last.
Chris Hosford, a spokesman for Hyundai, said improvements in initial quality inevitably contribute to longer-term improvements.
"One leads the other," he said. "We really want people to see us as a great value automobile. Part of value is price. Part of value is getting a lot of features and equipment for what you spend. And part of it is definitely having a great quality car."
So what, exactly, is initial quality? In February and March, J. D. Power asked 51,000 buyers of new cars and trucks in the United States whether they had experienced any of 135 problems during the first three months after purchase.
The most common complaint was wind noise audible inside the car. Poor fuel economy was a top 10 complaint, but less so than in last year's survey, even though gasoline prices are higher now than in 2003.
"It suggests consumers are adjusting to higher fuel prices," said Brian Walters, J. D. Power's senior director of vehicle research.
The annual survey data is closely watched by the auto industry, though the differences between the best and worst automakers have narrowed in recent years.
"Because it's so darn close, I don't think it has the same importance it had 10 or 20 years ago," said Louise Goeser, vice president for quality at Ford Motor.
The range is much wider in long-term reliability, which affects how automobiles retain value. Still, the initial-quality report is an important reflection of how well new cars and trucks live up to customer expectations.
As a group, Japanese brands scored best in the latest survey, averaging 111 problems for each 100 vehicles. Korean brands were next, with 117; European brands had 122; and domestic brands 123. In 1998, the Korean brands were worst, with 272 problems for each 100 vehicles, and European brands best, with 156.
Problems declined 11 percent industrywide in the new survey from a year earlier.
Measured companywide, the Big Three all ranked slightly below the industry average, but there were big differences from brand to brand. The General Motors Hummer, though improved markedly from last year, was still the most problem-prone single nameplate, while the company's Cadillac brand was second only to Lexus from Toyota.
Hyundai's results did not include Kia. J. D. Power is considering changing that in the future.
Entirely new products often have teething trouble, and the effects were visible in the rankings. Both Porsche and Volkswagen declined; each company introduced its first sport utility vehicle last year. Porsche plunged from among the best to among the worst.
"This performance is due almost entirely to the Cayenne," the new Porsche S.U.V., said Mr. Walters of J. D. Power. By contrast, the Porsche 911 was the top-ranked premium sports car, and the company led the most recent long-term dependability survey.
Martin Peters, a spokesman for Porsche, said, "We are disappointed with the results for the Cayenne, but the majority of the problems were related to features and controls," rather than mechanical or structural defects. Nissan Motor also came in below the Big Three in initial quality, partly because it introduced its first large pickup, the Titan, and its first large S.U.V., the Armada. Even Toyota was dented by a debut: its new youth-oriented Scion brand landed near the bottom of the charts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/29/au...es/29auto.html
By DANNY HAKIM
Published: April 29, 2004
DETROIT, April 28 - For the first time, new-car buyers ranked Hyundai, the South Korean automaker, higher in initial quality than any domestic or European manufacturer, according to a survey released on Wednesday by J. D. Power & Associates
The result was a coup for Hyundai, which has been trying hard to upgrade its image from cheap to classy, or at least respectable, and close the gap between it and Toyota Motor and Honda Motor.
"A decade ago, as Korean manufacturers struggled with a universally poor reputation for vehicle quality," said Joe Ivers, executive director of quality and customer satisfaction at J. D. Power, a research firm, "no one would have predicted they could not only keep the pace, but actually pass domestics and other imports in terms of initial quality."
As a company, Toyota ranked first, followed closely by Honda and Hyundai, tied for second.
There are caveats, however. Hyundai's Kia brand continues to be a subpar performer in the initial-quality rankings. And in J. D. Power's most recent study of long-term reliability, which many in the industry consider to be a more important barometer, the Hyundai brand ranks near the bottom of the industry and Kia is dead last.
Chris Hosford, a spokesman for Hyundai, said improvements in initial quality inevitably contribute to longer-term improvements.
"One leads the other," he said. "We really want people to see us as a great value automobile. Part of value is price. Part of value is getting a lot of features and equipment for what you spend. And part of it is definitely having a great quality car."
So what, exactly, is initial quality? In February and March, J. D. Power asked 51,000 buyers of new cars and trucks in the United States whether they had experienced any of 135 problems during the first three months after purchase.
The most common complaint was wind noise audible inside the car. Poor fuel economy was a top 10 complaint, but less so than in last year's survey, even though gasoline prices are higher now than in 2003.
"It suggests consumers are adjusting to higher fuel prices," said Brian Walters, J. D. Power's senior director of vehicle research.
The annual survey data is closely watched by the auto industry, though the differences between the best and worst automakers have narrowed in recent years.
"Because it's so darn close, I don't think it has the same importance it had 10 or 20 years ago," said Louise Goeser, vice president for quality at Ford Motor.
The range is much wider in long-term reliability, which affects how automobiles retain value. Still, the initial-quality report is an important reflection of how well new cars and trucks live up to customer expectations.
As a group, Japanese brands scored best in the latest survey, averaging 111 problems for each 100 vehicles. Korean brands were next, with 117; European brands had 122; and domestic brands 123. In 1998, the Korean brands were worst, with 272 problems for each 100 vehicles, and European brands best, with 156.
Problems declined 11 percent industrywide in the new survey from a year earlier.
Measured companywide, the Big Three all ranked slightly below the industry average, but there were big differences from brand to brand. The General Motors Hummer, though improved markedly from last year, was still the most problem-prone single nameplate, while the company's Cadillac brand was second only to Lexus from Toyota.
Hyundai's results did not include Kia. J. D. Power is considering changing that in the future.
Entirely new products often have teething trouble, and the effects were visible in the rankings. Both Porsche and Volkswagen declined; each company introduced its first sport utility vehicle last year. Porsche plunged from among the best to among the worst.
"This performance is due almost entirely to the Cayenne," the new Porsche S.U.V., said Mr. Walters of J. D. Power. By contrast, the Porsche 911 was the top-ranked premium sports car, and the company led the most recent long-term dependability survey.
Martin Peters, a spokesman for Porsche, said, "We are disappointed with the results for the Cayenne, but the majority of the problems were related to features and controls," rather than mechanical or structural defects. Nissan Motor also came in below the Big Three in initial quality, partly because it introduced its first large pickup, the Titan, and its first large S.U.V., the Armada. Even Toyota was dented by a debut: its new youth-oriented Scion brand landed near the bottom of the charts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/29/au...es/29auto.html
05-02-2004, 07:22 AM
#40
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The IQS is a measure of what can be called "things gone wrong." That can include major problems, such as a blown engine, as well as more minor matters, including poorly placed cupholders.
A proper measurement of quality should be devided into two categories such as TECHNICAL and COMFORT. How can those 2 be interchangable?
thx for listening...