'04 TL Review - With a little more reality involved.
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'04 TL Review - With a little more reality involved.
If you are an Acura fan boy or you haven't driven enough cars to know any better, stop reading now, you aren't going to like this review. If you want an honest opinion, read on. You will know what you are getting into if you buy this car.
PROS:
1) Interior is DAMN nice (even though I hate the carbon fiber with a passion).
2) Instrument set is top notch and very functional.
3) Ride is very smooth and quite.
4) This will make a very good day to day in city and an even better long trip vehicle (as long as you don't mind 0 power on start).
CONS:
1) Automatic has NO power until you hit about 3700 RPM / 35 MPH.
2) Geartronic is ALMOST useless.
3) Torque steer isn't present TILL you hit 4000 RPM and then it kicks in hard.
4) Pricing to make the car look like a decent sports car is $6000.
NIGHTMARE:
1) TL has the potential to HYDRO-LOCK. First passenger car I have EVER driven that has had this potential. And if you don't know that that means, here goes. To help the TL get to 270 HP it uses a cold air intake at the nose (those nice inlets on the front bumper). If water gets high enough (say the lip of the front bumper) you have the potential to SUCK water into the engine. Corvette owners know of this all to well. Which is why you don't see a lot of Vettes out in hard rains. I can't wait to see the first complaints when this happens.
I actually cut the test drive short on the automatic because it was so pathetic. No matter how I tried to shift / accelerate, I could not get it to actually feel like it had power till the tach hit 3700 RPM and then you could start to feel the ponies. At about 4700 things got fun. Problem is, it takes FOREVER to get there. So unless you have NO other choice and have to have an automatic, GET A FREAKING MANUAL. I am dead serious on this. The auto has NO torque on launch, damn near 0. S60 T5, G35 and hell even the 330xi have more torque on launch.
In comparision to the Volvo S60 T5, Inifiniti G35 and BMW 330xi all I can say is this. The TL has them beat in the interior. Stablility is about the same for control. It feels closer to the S60 because they are both front wheel drive and are biased by weight to understeer. I would pick the TL over the G35 and 330xi with no issues (exactly what I expected before driving). But I would have to decide on interior size and electronics (TL) vs raw power (S60) when it comes to the TL and S60. The electronics give the TL a HUGE edge but if you are a power nut, you will pick the S60 T5 without thinking twice.
As for comparing to the BMW 545, Infiniti M45 and Volvo S80 T6, I won't waste any more text than this, it loses hands down.
Acura is going to sell a lot of these cars. And mostly to people that could give a *bleep* about 0 to 60. And I am THRILLED to see them get that part right. I really think they have a shot with this car to take a huge bite out of the Lexus' market. But if you want a sharp looking car, it is going to cost you between $1800 (rims, tires) and $6000 (rims, tires, body molding) to make it not look like a ho-hum passanger car.
I am going to wait until 2006 before I look at this car again. By then I hope to see Acura solve the no torque on launch issues with the A5.
And just incase you missed the implication at the begining of this, flamers will be ignored. People with real questions, will get an answer tomorrow when I get back online.
PROS:
1) Interior is DAMN nice (even though I hate the carbon fiber with a passion).
2) Instrument set is top notch and very functional.
3) Ride is very smooth and quite.
4) This will make a very good day to day in city and an even better long trip vehicle (as long as you don't mind 0 power on start).
CONS:
1) Automatic has NO power until you hit about 3700 RPM / 35 MPH.
2) Geartronic is ALMOST useless.
3) Torque steer isn't present TILL you hit 4000 RPM and then it kicks in hard.
4) Pricing to make the car look like a decent sports car is $6000.
NIGHTMARE:
1) TL has the potential to HYDRO-LOCK. First passenger car I have EVER driven that has had this potential. And if you don't know that that means, here goes. To help the TL get to 270 HP it uses a cold air intake at the nose (those nice inlets on the front bumper). If water gets high enough (say the lip of the front bumper) you have the potential to SUCK water into the engine. Corvette owners know of this all to well. Which is why you don't see a lot of Vettes out in hard rains. I can't wait to see the first complaints when this happens.
I actually cut the test drive short on the automatic because it was so pathetic. No matter how I tried to shift / accelerate, I could not get it to actually feel like it had power till the tach hit 3700 RPM and then you could start to feel the ponies. At about 4700 things got fun. Problem is, it takes FOREVER to get there. So unless you have NO other choice and have to have an automatic, GET A FREAKING MANUAL. I am dead serious on this. The auto has NO torque on launch, damn near 0. S60 T5, G35 and hell even the 330xi have more torque on launch.
In comparision to the Volvo S60 T5, Inifiniti G35 and BMW 330xi all I can say is this. The TL has them beat in the interior. Stablility is about the same for control. It feels closer to the S60 because they are both front wheel drive and are biased by weight to understeer. I would pick the TL over the G35 and 330xi with no issues (exactly what I expected before driving). But I would have to decide on interior size and electronics (TL) vs raw power (S60) when it comes to the TL and S60. The electronics give the TL a HUGE edge but if you are a power nut, you will pick the S60 T5 without thinking twice.
As for comparing to the BMW 545, Infiniti M45 and Volvo S80 T6, I won't waste any more text than this, it loses hands down.
Acura is going to sell a lot of these cars. And mostly to people that could give a *bleep* about 0 to 60. And I am THRILLED to see them get that part right. I really think they have a shot with this car to take a huge bite out of the Lexus' market. But if you want a sharp looking car, it is going to cost you between $1800 (rims, tires) and $6000 (rims, tires, body molding) to make it not look like a ho-hum passanger car.
I am going to wait until 2006 before I look at this car again. By then I hope to see Acura solve the no torque on launch issues with the A5.
And just incase you missed the implication at the begining of this, flamers will be ignored. People with real questions, will get an answer tomorrow when I get back online.
#2
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No flame here. You say 0 power on start, if that was "reality" (your word not mine), the car would not move forward at all. This one statement discredits the rest of your post.
Acura does not makes cars like Chevrolet, trust me.
Acura does not makes cars like Chevrolet, trust me.
#3
I'm an Acura fan and found your review quite helpful. First let's take a look at your PROs. The interior IS damn nice which is 70% of why I intend to buy the car on Tuesday. I won't be geting the carbon fiber. The parchment has the fake wood which looks great on paper and from all accounts thus far. The instrument set beats any car that I have seen priced all the way up to the $60,000 range. As for the CONS I'm not interested in how fast a 270hp engine gets me to 35 MPH. Suffice it to say it will be as fast as the '03 Saab 9-3 Linear that we just bought. Anything more is superfluous. I don't plan on using the Geartronic. I never hit 4000RPM (do people actually do that? -- gee they must attract a lot of police attention). I think the car looks great even without the HPT. The A-spec package is for young men with attitude -- neither of which apply to me. As for Hydro-lock I can't recall ever driving through water deep enough to reach the lip of the front bumper making that a non-issue. In short I'm thrilled by your PROs and not affected by your CONs. Where do I sign?
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I took one look at it and didnt even want to test drive it......way too bling bling for me. Why drive something i'm not interested in buying, ya know?
Hard to believe how bad the low end torque is even with a CAI...
Honda never can get things quite right these days.
I thought honda engineers were exposed to racing programs before working on production models?
I guess the guys designing the TL missed that exposure...LOL
Hard to believe how bad the low end torque is even with a CAI...
Honda never can get things quite right these days.
I thought honda engineers were exposed to racing programs before working on production models?
I guess the guys designing the TL missed that exposure...LOL
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Re: '04 TL Review - With a little more reality involved.
Originally posted by Skull One
.....Acura is going to sell a lot of these cars....
....just incase you missed the implication at the begining of this, flamers will be ignored. People with real questions, will get an answer tomorrow when I get back online.
.....Acura is going to sell a lot of these cars....
....just incase you missed the implication at the begining of this, flamers will be ignored. People with real questions, will get an answer tomorrow when I get back online.
First, a disclaimer: I don't know one tenth of what Skull knows about cars, so I can't discuss the TL on his technical level. I can only do what I can.
Good that you do give the car some credit, to the point of saying that Acura is going to sell a lot of these -- even though you go on to sort of put down the people who are going to buy them.
I actually think you overrate the TL in one respect: I didn't like the ride nearly as much as you did. I felt the ride was not perceptibly superior to that of the TSX, and in fact in that post I gave you credit for having been sort of right in your advance pronouncements about the car.
Otherwise, besides the technical aspects that I don't know about and therefore can't comment on, I can only say it seems as though we drove different cars. Lacking in power? The AT was pathetic???? I confidently predict that very few people are going to agree with you on this.
Finally: I don't know where you're coming from in putting the board on notice about who you'll ignore and who you'll reply to, and then giving us a schedule of when you'll be back. Who the fuck are you? But, don't take it personally, because if I had said the same thing, I'd be saying the exact same thing back to myself -- Who the fuck am I? Just do your posts, let people respond how they wish, and if you don't think that's enough, maybe you shouldn't be on this board.
#6
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It has more torque across the entire band than the last-gen TL. Hydrolocking will not be an issue, that should be obvious.
larchmont, remember Skull is biased and still trying to rationalize his decision not to get the new TL. This is blatantly obvious in his comments.
larchmont, remember Skull is biased and still trying to rationalize his decision not to get the new TL. This is blatantly obvious in his comments.
#7
Senior Moderator
Skull, I appreciate the counterpoint to my review. We need more reviews in general to showcase the experience of driving this car.
I totally agree with your Con #2. I find the SS only a neat toy, for entertainment only. If one really wants total control of their shifting experience, they need to buy the MT. End of story. Unfortunately, I have a wife who will need to drive the car (rarely) and who can't drive a stick to save her life.
I will have to drive my car a bit more to decide about your Con #1. The car certainly feels like it has power at lower RPMs, but I'll check my own impressions. Further, I don't drive in such a way that I'd induce much torque steer, so I'll leave that alone.
Last point, I wouldn't compare the TL to a BMW 545 (8 cyl) or Infiniti M45, they are in a different class in terms of interior and engine.
I think the car looks fine without a body kit, 18's, etc. I don't need (thank God) to spend another $4k. I'm not sure an A-Spec is worth the money except to people who crave exclusivity.
I'm glad you enjoy your Volvo, it's an excellent car.
I totally agree with your Con #2. I find the SS only a neat toy, for entertainment only. If one really wants total control of their shifting experience, they need to buy the MT. End of story. Unfortunately, I have a wife who will need to drive the car (rarely) and who can't drive a stick to save her life.
I will have to drive my car a bit more to decide about your Con #1. The car certainly feels like it has power at lower RPMs, but I'll check my own impressions. Further, I don't drive in such a way that I'd induce much torque steer, so I'll leave that alone.
Last point, I wouldn't compare the TL to a BMW 545 (8 cyl) or Infiniti M45, they are in a different class in terms of interior and engine.
I think the car looks fine without a body kit, 18's, etc. I don't need (thank God) to spend another $4k. I'm not sure an A-Spec is worth the money except to people who crave exclusivity.
I'm glad you enjoy your Volvo, it's an excellent car.
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#8
How bad is torques steer? Is it present if not absolutely gunning it? Acura is know for not have that problem. Also to go off on something else I was worried about. For those who know about cars, how does VSA work in respect to water, snow, and ice? I mean since the auto does not have the LSD, will VSA be enough to cover for it? Would LSD be far more helpful in bad weather? Any info on this will be great. I completely agree about the interior. It is layer out real nice, and love everything, but that carbon fiber which pisses me off to no end. I wish it would come w/ just black plastic extended from the dash, like the TSX. Takes away the the luxuryness and just looks silly.
#9
I would have to assume if u looked behind the front bumper there are plastic pieces or some sort of safety feature to prevent hydrolock. Honda has some experience w/ cars after all. That would be a big oversight.
#10
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Wow. Interesting. Quite frankly, not what I would have expected of a V6.
But, I do have a question. How do you know it has a cold air intake. I thought my TSX did, and it turns out the hose goes from the filter box down to the front inlet...so I thought. The resonator is down there, BUT it then pipes up to just hood level behind the radiator to suck in air.
But, I do have a question. How do you know it has a cold air intake. I thought my TSX did, and it turns out the hose goes from the filter box down to the front inlet...so I thought. The resonator is down there, BUT it then pipes up to just hood level behind the radiator to suck in air.
#11
"If your an Acura fan or haven't driven enough cars to know better . . . " Boy that doesn't sound pompous or anything?
You say your review involved more reality. But really it is your impressions of the drive . . . your reality, not anyone elses. Alot of people have driven this car and loved it. That doesn't mean they are Acura apologists or haven't driven enough cars to know. It simply means that they enjoyed the car.
If you were looking to buy this car, I'm sorry you didn't like it. I'd encourage everyone else out there who is interested to find your own "reality."
You say your review involved more reality. But really it is your impressions of the drive . . . your reality, not anyone elses. Alot of people have driven this car and loved it. That doesn't mean they are Acura apologists or haven't driven enough cars to know. It simply means that they enjoyed the car.
If you were looking to buy this car, I'm sorry you didn't like it. I'd encourage everyone else out there who is interested to find your own "reality."
#12
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In response to Cons 1 & 4, this car isn't intended to be a race/sports car. It's a Touring Luxury sedan. Actually, 4 isn't a Con. It's an option. If someone wants to spend $6000 to turn their to TL into a sports car, they are well within their right to do so.
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Peter7777: I have to hit 4K+ RPMs on all three of my cars to get on certain highways because of piss poor design of Texas roads
larchmont: Lexus crowd in general doesn't care about 0-60, infact after talking to a LOT of people at the test drive Saturday, that was so low on their list it wasn't funny.
As for who I am, I am the guy that has said and has done exactly what I said I would do. No more, no less. And no, I am not sorry if I rub people the wrong way when I give an opinion or do exactly what I said I am going to do. Too many people want to play word and politcally correct games, I don't have time.
RJC RSX: Yes, more torque than the old TL. Doesn't mean it makes it any better when compared to a S60 T5.
moreace: There isn't any on launch. There isn't enough torque to induce it. BUT the second you hit 40 MPH and you are still on it, make damn sure you have a solid one hand grip on the wheel. Because the car will pull to slightly to the right (least it did on the roads I tested this on). The roads I were on were bone dry, so I have no opinion on VSA for the TL. But if the VSA is anything like the '03 MDX it should be top notch. I think the Acura system kicks in even faster than my Corvette. If there are any rain baffles in the intake system, I missed them. After more thought on this, I am going to guess that Acura/Honda figured out that the distance and incline of the air intake ducting is enough to keep hydrolock to a minimum. But damn, I still can't believe it was the very first thing I noticed when I popped the hood and followed the ducting.
Lung Fu Mo Shi: I followed the ducting from the filter all the way to the front lower grill/bumper. Unless I missed something and the 2 salesman I asked to confirm are wrong, then it is a cold air intake.
04TLToBe: I couldn't have put that any better, thank you. That is one of the reasons I wrote the review like I did. I want people to go out and prove my opinion shouldn't be theirs. The car is that nice as long as you aren't looking to drag race anyone .
VtecMW: I would almost agree with that if isn't wasn't for the 7 sales people talking about it that way Saturday morning. And also the fact that Acura carbon fibered so much of the cockpit. But once that part dies down, I think this car will really hurt Lexus. And it is about damn time.
Well folks, this has been fun but I am going to idle for now till the redesigned RL comes out. Hopefully it will have enough power so I can replace my S80. Yes, I know I can get an '04 BMW 545i (or even a Infiniti M45) which will blow away anything the RL comes out with, but I trust Acura right now more than I do the other car makers (yes, even more than my beloved GM/Chevorlet made car).
larchmont: Lexus crowd in general doesn't care about 0-60, infact after talking to a LOT of people at the test drive Saturday, that was so low on their list it wasn't funny.
As for who I am, I am the guy that has said and has done exactly what I said I would do. No more, no less. And no, I am not sorry if I rub people the wrong way when I give an opinion or do exactly what I said I am going to do. Too many people want to play word and politcally correct games, I don't have time.
RJC RSX: Yes, more torque than the old TL. Doesn't mean it makes it any better when compared to a S60 T5.
moreace: There isn't any on launch. There isn't enough torque to induce it. BUT the second you hit 40 MPH and you are still on it, make damn sure you have a solid one hand grip on the wheel. Because the car will pull to slightly to the right (least it did on the roads I tested this on). The roads I were on were bone dry, so I have no opinion on VSA for the TL. But if the VSA is anything like the '03 MDX it should be top notch. I think the Acura system kicks in even faster than my Corvette. If there are any rain baffles in the intake system, I missed them. After more thought on this, I am going to guess that Acura/Honda figured out that the distance and incline of the air intake ducting is enough to keep hydrolock to a minimum. But damn, I still can't believe it was the very first thing I noticed when I popped the hood and followed the ducting.
Lung Fu Mo Shi: I followed the ducting from the filter all the way to the front lower grill/bumper. Unless I missed something and the 2 salesman I asked to confirm are wrong, then it is a cold air intake.
04TLToBe: I couldn't have put that any better, thank you. That is one of the reasons I wrote the review like I did. I want people to go out and prove my opinion shouldn't be theirs. The car is that nice as long as you aren't looking to drag race anyone .
VtecMW: I would almost agree with that if isn't wasn't for the 7 sales people talking about it that way Saturday morning. And also the fact that Acura carbon fibered so much of the cockpit. But once that part dies down, I think this car will really hurt Lexus. And it is about damn time.
Well folks, this has been fun but I am going to idle for now till the redesigned RL comes out. Hopefully it will have enough power so I can replace my S80. Yes, I know I can get an '04 BMW 545i (or even a Infiniti M45) which will blow away anything the RL comes out with, but I trust Acura right now more than I do the other car makers (yes, even more than my beloved GM/Chevorlet made car).
#14
(a few) People have been saying things about power delivery (only you) and transmission response. Aren't these two things governed by Drive-by-wire? If so, doesn't it take a while before DBW is fully configured to *your* style of driving? Just a thought.
Oh, and about hydrolock: I'm sure Acura thought of something to prevent this. Although thanks for the tidbit...it'll give me something negative to point out in front of the dealer and thus bolster my G35 advertisement when I go to deal on a new TL.
Oh, and about hydrolock: I'm sure Acura thought of something to prevent this. Although thanks for the tidbit...it'll give me something negative to point out in front of the dealer and thus bolster my G35 advertisement when I go to deal on a new TL.
#15
Drifting
Nice review skull but I hope I disagree. I'd like to point out that your review is very good, and while you say negative things about the TL, you don't see people from the site flaming you for it. This is another example of how the site reacts to all points of view.
BTW Larch, I don't know where you got this new attitude you've been showcasing lately, but I LIKE IT!
BTW Larch, I don't know where you got this new attitude you've been showcasing lately, but I LIKE IT!
#16
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Originally posted by Jason
......BTW Larch, I don't know where you got this new attitude you've been showcasing lately, but I LIKE IT!
......BTW Larch, I don't know where you got this new attitude you've been showcasing lately, but I LIKE IT!
And it looks like I was very unfair to Skull, I misjudged his approach. As you saw, some of how he put it rubbed me extremely the wrong way, and as I take another look at it, it still does -- but I guess it's my bad.
Sorry, Skull -- and great that you just stayed on point.
#17
I talked about this in "They Say I..." thread but thought I'd elaborate here. I had very different experiences in the test drive model and in the model I actually took home. Part of the reason may have been the four people in the car for the test drive, versus one on the drive home, but the feel of the engine power coming on line was subjectively too different for that to be a complete explanation.
During the test drive, it was much as Black Skull said. Despite the sales guy badgering me about the "break in period", I floored it from a complete stop a couple of times. Acceleration wasn't bad. In fact, I'd put it at "good" or "excellent" for 6-cyl AT Japanese sedans (of which I've driven quite a few). But not anything like a European sport sedan.
Then when I took my car home, I was at a stoplight and needed to change lanes a 1/4 mile ahead to get on the freeway. Based on my experience of the previous day, I gave it 90% throttle to get off the line. And to my tremendous surprise, my body was shoved back somewhat and the wheels chirped. When I got off the freeway, I then tried it a couple of more times with 100% throttle and the experience was even more pronounced. Now it was coming off the line like a middling European 6-cyl. It was actually the most like my buddy's Audi S4, mentally adjusted for the AT versus MT difference. Probably due to the fact that the front drive TL is just too different from pure rear drive Euro sedans. Still not in S60R territory, but respectable.
As for the torque steer, I didn't have any noticeable problem when I punched it off the line or to pass on the freeway. But I'm not known for being that sensitive to it. However, I did take a wide left turn at about 3000rpm and tried to accelerated quickly out of it. I definitely felt it fighting me right.
Anyway, I don't know whether this was all purely subjective or accounted for by the passenger weight difference. I was thinking perhaps the demo model was electronically governed somehow or the sales guys had been so careful with it that it's throttle-shifting algorithm had adapted to "grandma" style. But this was my experience.
During the test drive, it was much as Black Skull said. Despite the sales guy badgering me about the "break in period", I floored it from a complete stop a couple of times. Acceleration wasn't bad. In fact, I'd put it at "good" or "excellent" for 6-cyl AT Japanese sedans (of which I've driven quite a few). But not anything like a European sport sedan.
Then when I took my car home, I was at a stoplight and needed to change lanes a 1/4 mile ahead to get on the freeway. Based on my experience of the previous day, I gave it 90% throttle to get off the line. And to my tremendous surprise, my body was shoved back somewhat and the wheels chirped. When I got off the freeway, I then tried it a couple of more times with 100% throttle and the experience was even more pronounced. Now it was coming off the line like a middling European 6-cyl. It was actually the most like my buddy's Audi S4, mentally adjusted for the AT versus MT difference. Probably due to the fact that the front drive TL is just too different from pure rear drive Euro sedans. Still not in S60R territory, but respectable.
As for the torque steer, I didn't have any noticeable problem when I punched it off the line or to pass on the freeway. But I'm not known for being that sensitive to it. However, I did take a wide left turn at about 3000rpm and tried to accelerated quickly out of it. I definitely felt it fighting me right.
Anyway, I don't know whether this was all purely subjective or accounted for by the passenger weight difference. I was thinking perhaps the demo model was electronically governed somehow or the sales guys had been so careful with it that it's throttle-shifting algorithm had adapted to "grandma" style. But this was my experience.
#18
Re CAI...water getting all the way up in to the engine of the TL is quite impossible. First you need to look at the diagram of how the CAI is designed. It has a bit of a U design to it before it actually reaches the engine...go to your dealer and ask them to show you the design...second there are valves in place in case water do get into the CAI.
Power is subjective...if you are used to driving a Viper you jump into a TL, the TL will feel like a turtle...on the other hand if you are used to driving a 4cyl Accord, the TL will feel like a rabbit. With Honda engines most people know the meat of the power comes in at a much higher RPM then most other engines. When its all said and done the TL is what it is a blend of luxury and performance...not your M3 killer.
I recommend for more spirited driving...to drive with the L gear and turn VSA off. And like the TSX after the TL is done with its break in period the car will be faster.
Power is subjective...if you are used to driving a Viper you jump into a TL, the TL will feel like a turtle...on the other hand if you are used to driving a 4cyl Accord, the TL will feel like a rabbit. With Honda engines most people know the meat of the power comes in at a much higher RPM then most other engines. When its all said and done the TL is what it is a blend of luxury and performance...not your M3 killer.
I recommend for more spirited driving...to drive with the L gear and turn VSA off. And like the TSX after the TL is done with its break in period the car will be faster.
#19
Drifting
Originally posted by larchmont
And it looks like I was very unfair to Skull, I misjudged his approach. As you saw, some of how he put it rubbed me extremely the wrong way, and as I take another look at it, it still does -- but I guess it's my bad.
And it looks like I was very unfair to Skull, I misjudged his approach. As you saw, some of how he put it rubbed me extremely the wrong way, and as I take another look at it, it still does -- but I guess it's my bad.
#21
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Originally posted by Jason
Fuck Skull, you're fine. His review is egotistical and you called him on it. I'm not saying he's wrong, but he didn't need to take the tone he took. It's as if he was throwing it in our faces how he disliked the TL. Who the fuck are you Skull?
Fuck Skull, you're fine. His review is egotistical and you called him on it. I'm not saying he's wrong, but he didn't need to take the tone he took. It's as if he was throwing it in our faces how he disliked the TL. Who the fuck are you Skull?
#22
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Originally posted by moreace
Those who have taken it home. have you tried paralled parking and how bad is it in tight spots?
Those who have taken it home. have you tried paralled parking and how bad is it in tight spots?
#23
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Originally posted by Jason
Fuck Skull, you're fine. His review is egotistical and you called him on it. I'm not saying he's wrong, but he didn't need to take the tone he took. It's as if he was throwing it in our faces how he disliked the TL. Who the fuck are you Skull?
Fuck Skull, you're fine. His review is egotistical and you called him on it. I'm not saying he's wrong, but he didn't need to take the tone he took. It's as if he was throwing it in our faces how he disliked the TL. Who the fuck are you Skull?
Hmmm, I was called on it. Now that is funny.
Tone. Were you there when I wrote it? Did you hear the sound of my voice or see the expresions on my face?
And where exactly did I say "I dislike the TL"?
But wait, could you be joking because of the ? See everything can be taken two ways. The question is, do any of us truely know each time we read something what the true intent was? Me, I try to give people the benifit of the doubt. I don't resort to foul language. I never resort to putting someone down. What would be the point? I don't know any of you personally, so how can I rightfully attack someone I don't know?
I have a great deal of respect for Larchmont. But I also am not afraid to defend my position or opinion. What he posted could have been considered a flame. And if I had taken it that way, I would have never responded to him. But I gave him the benefit of the doubt and addressed his questions. Why? Because it didn't kill me to do so. Tomorrow I am going to be a tad bit smarter because Larchmont and I exchanged opinions and information. Personally, I am grateful for that. The day we stop learning is the day we are dead.
I think I need to re-sum up my review of the TL. There seems to be some confusion on one point. Here goes.
Save for the lack of initial torque on launch (I.E. First gear and gas pedal depressed more than 75%), I love the TL from a mechanical standpoint. And if what people are now reporting concerning an adaptive driving model based system is true, then it takes longer than I had (first driver of the car besides taking it of the truck to clean it) to test. What worries me about that possibility is the fact that I might train it for slow accelerations to conserve fuel and the one time I need to punch it, the power won't be there and I could end up in a bad situation. I also (just incase you didn't know) drive two cars that have gas pedals based on electical instead of mechincal based input (Vette and MDX) and neither car has the issue of the TL. As for the interior WOW. I love it, save for all that carbon fiber crap that Acura went with. Take a look at an all black interior Vette. That to me is sexy. Carbon fiber just does nothing for me but make me want to rip it out .
So in closing, my review was actually very positive. But you didn't give me the benifit of the doubt. You were biased because I canceled my order for a TL and bought a Vette. And that's pretty funny, since I specifically stated "I will revisit this car in 2006". Why would I state that if I didn't like it?
Something to think about.
#24
I gotta say this thread is pretty funny in general. The title for instance is pretty funny. Skull my friend, you need to learn the meaning of "opinion" and "reality". You drove the vehicle and have formed an opinion about it and that is YOUR reality. It doesn't really apply to anyone else right? So how exactly are the reviews posted by people who have driven the TL and love it any less based in reality? I don't remember getting the memo that you were put in charge of all things "real".
#25
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Originally posted by jwaters943
I gotta say this thread is pretty funny in general. The title for instance is pretty funny. Skull my friend, you need to learn the meaning of "opinion" and "reality". You drove the vehicle and have formed an opinion about it and that is YOUR reality. It doesn't really apply to anyone else right? So how exactly are the reviews posted by people who love the new TL any less based in reality?
I gotta say this thread is pretty funny in general. The title for instance is pretty funny. Skull my friend, you need to learn the meaning of "opinion" and "reality". You drove the vehicle and have formed an opinion about it and that is YOUR reality. It doesn't really apply to anyone else right? So how exactly are the reviews posted by people who love the new TL any less based in reality?
So many things in life are strictly based on personal opinion. Buying a car is about one of the most opinionated out there .
#26
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Good to see some honest negative opinions on the TL, but everyone ... let's keep this on the business side. There is no reason for personal attacks, from anyone to anyone on this site. Skull One gave his review and did not mention any person on this site and got a few replies that sure questioned his personally ... I think that is not the acura-tsx.com way.
Ok ... time for me to go back to watching football My FFL team owned this week ... David Boston ... Steve Davis ... woot
Ok ... time for me to go back to watching football My FFL team owned this week ... David Boston ... Steve Davis ... woot
#27
I have no idea what Scull is talking about (at least from my personal experience).
I went out a month ago, and drove a Volvo S60R (both MT and AT). "Disappointed" would have been a major understatement! It took the car 1.5 seconds from the start to do ANYTHING. I understand it's turbo, but still... I then drove a T5 with MT - same exact thing - you have to sit there and wait for the turbo to kick in. When I shared my impressions with the salesperson (after telling him, there is no way I'm buying either of these cars), I was told that the "proper way" to drive these cars is to step on the gas pedal and not to release the clutch until RPMs reach 3000-4000 - then you get the full power of turbo right away. I'm sorry, but WHO DRIVES LIKE THAT???
I then went STRAIGHT to the Acura dealer, and asked to test drive (again) a 2003 CL Type S with MT. The difference was overwhelming: the torque, the pickup, the raw power - simply blows Volvo out of the water, and without revving up the engine... Call me silly, but I somehow doubt, that a 2004 TL wouldn't be at least as responsive and powerful as an 03 CL-S.
Also, I just read an 04 TL review in Car and Driver magazine, and they confirm a 0-60 of at least 6.0 seconds (MT). Personally, on a touring luxury sedan with all the awsome amenities, space, and style, that's more than enough for me.
The only car that made me question my probable TL purchase (to date) is an 04 Audi S4. It's simply a rocket on wheels. But, who has 50+ grand?...
Just another opinion.
I went out a month ago, and drove a Volvo S60R (both MT and AT). "Disappointed" would have been a major understatement! It took the car 1.5 seconds from the start to do ANYTHING. I understand it's turbo, but still... I then drove a T5 with MT - same exact thing - you have to sit there and wait for the turbo to kick in. When I shared my impressions with the salesperson (after telling him, there is no way I'm buying either of these cars), I was told that the "proper way" to drive these cars is to step on the gas pedal and not to release the clutch until RPMs reach 3000-4000 - then you get the full power of turbo right away. I'm sorry, but WHO DRIVES LIKE THAT???
I then went STRAIGHT to the Acura dealer, and asked to test drive (again) a 2003 CL Type S with MT. The difference was overwhelming: the torque, the pickup, the raw power - simply blows Volvo out of the water, and without revving up the engine... Call me silly, but I somehow doubt, that a 2004 TL wouldn't be at least as responsive and powerful as an 03 CL-S.
Also, I just read an 04 TL review in Car and Driver magazine, and they confirm a 0-60 of at least 6.0 seconds (MT). Personally, on a touring luxury sedan with all the awsome amenities, space, and style, that's more than enough for me.
The only car that made me question my probable TL purchase (to date) is an 04 Audi S4. It's simply a rocket on wheels. But, who has 50+ grand?...
Just another opinion.
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Originally posted by dralek
I have no idea what Scull is talking about (at least from my personal experience).
I went out a month ago, and drove a Volvo S60R (both MT and AT). "Disappointed" would have been a major understatement! It took the car 1.5 seconds from the start to do ANYTHING.
Just another opinion.
I have no idea what Scull is talking about (at least from my personal experience).
I went out a month ago, and drove a Volvo S60R (both MT and AT). "Disappointed" would have been a major understatement! It took the car 1.5 seconds from the start to do ANYTHING.
Just another opinion.
Opinions are a good thing.
#29
Originally posted by moreace
Those who have taken it home. have you tried paralled parking and how bad is it in tight spots?
Those who have taken it home. have you tried paralled parking and how bad is it in tight spots?
#30
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I did not feel the slow off the line sensation that Skull reports, I have driven many cars domestic to imports (including 330's 540's 740's and the new 745), so my impresion is pretty ballances.
Also, I did not feel the torque steer you mention at all, I tested that 4 times with only one hand on the wheel, and felt none.
I can not say that about the 04 Maxima I tested, dam near had to get an ace bandage to help my strained wrist. It was pathetic.
I have driven 3 different TL's, all felt about the same.
I do have a complaint about the tranny, it does shift too early into 4th and found the engine lugging when driven at 30mph because of this. Dam, I wish I could get the 6spd as this would solve the problem.
Also, I did not feel the torque steer you mention at all, I tested that 4 times with only one hand on the wheel, and felt none.
I can not say that about the 04 Maxima I tested, dam near had to get an ace bandage to help my strained wrist. It was pathetic.
I have driven 3 different TL's, all felt about the same.
I do have a complaint about the tranny, it does shift too early into 4th and found the engine lugging when driven at 30mph because of this. Dam, I wish I could get the 6spd as this would solve the problem.
#32
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Today I took the new TL for a test drive. The interior, features, and overall quality seem top notch.
I drive a Viper, a Cobra and a Lightning. I was impressed with the performance of the TL. It felt faster then I had anticipated. Can't wait to drive the 6-speed however. The A-spec 6-speed should be one hot car.
I drive a Viper, a Cobra and a Lightning. I was impressed with the performance of the TL. It felt faster then I had anticipated. Can't wait to drive the 6-speed however. The A-spec 6-speed should be one hot car.
#34
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
No it won't. Not even close.
No it won't. Not even close.
-It's not even close to being as boring as the ES330.
-It's not even close to having as cheaply made (for a luxury vehicle) and unattractive interior as the IS300.
-It's not even close to being as slow as either one as well (unless you consider about a second difference 0-60 close).
:o
The TL is also a better value. Unless you are dead set against it's exterior styling or it's FWD nature, it's pretty difficult to fault the TL. No other car offers what the TL does for the price and VERY few V6 powered FWD cars handle as well. It's not perfect, but no car is.
#35
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Originally posted by jwaters943
It's not perfect, but no car is.
It's not perfect, but no car is.
Only car so far that has exceeded my expectation by a huge margin. Off course I only have 2000 miles on her and the honeymoon stage is still going strong .
#36
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Originally posted by Skull One
Have you driven a 2004 Corvette Coupe lately ?
Only car so far that has exceeded my expectation by a huge margin. Off course I only have 2000 miles on her and the honeymoon stage is still going strong .
Have you driven a 2004 Corvette Coupe lately ?
Only car so far that has exceeded my expectation by a huge margin. Off course I only have 2000 miles on her and the honeymoon stage is still going strong .
#37
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Originally posted by Skull One
Have you driven a 2004 Corvette Coupe lately ?
Only car so far that has exceeded my expectation by a huge margin. Off course I only have 2000 miles on her and the honeymoon stage is still going strong .
Have you driven a 2004 Corvette Coupe lately ?
Only car so far that has exceeded my expectation by a huge margin. Off course I only have 2000 miles on her and the honeymoon stage is still going strong .
#38
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Originally posted by domn
Its performance and driving dynamics may be almost perfect (The Z06 is apparently perfect) but how do you like the interior. From what I can remember from my neighbours 97 Vette it was just a step above the Cavaleir's interior.
Its performance and driving dynamics may be almost perfect (The Z06 is apparently perfect) but how do you like the interior. From what I can remember from my neighbours 97 Vette it was just a step above the Cavaleir's interior.
I have heard the same thing about the first few years of the C5 production run. The '04 seems to be very nice (at least to me) and functional. I actually like it better than my S80s interior in some respects.
#39
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Originally posted by Skull One
I have heard the same thing about the first few years of the C5 production run. The '04 seems to be very nice (at least to me) and functional. I actually like it better than my S80s interior in some respects.
I have heard the same thing about the first few years of the C5 production run. The '04 seems to be very nice (at least to me) and functional. I actually like it better than my S80s interior in some respects.
Just out of curiosity, why did'nt you wait for the 05 or spring for the Z06?
The C6 is supposed to have 425HP in base form. No low end tourque problems in that baby !!!
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Originally posted by ryder1650
Are you sure you are not biased then..?
Are you sure you are not biased then..?