TColl03

http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/e...t=sneakpeek#tl

Iceman

$30k - $34k?? Lower than I expected! Of course, what do they know.

Raheel

Ok They Pointed out the 6 MT has a firmer suspension and brembo brakes in front and LSD..

Why does the AUTO not have LSD?

They also pointed out that there will be no more Onstar, Whats the reason for that?

Raheel

Ya pretty cheap, and they know everything, I am sure they have already test driven, they just cant reveal too much till Sept. 1

princed

Could the TL actually be a whopping 6.3 inches shorter?! I was expecting the wheelbase to go up a couple of inches and the length to be maybe an inch or two shorter. This decreased length along with the 6MT, firmer suspension, and LSD bodes well for handling. Also, someone on vtec.net said the 3575 curb weight was for the auto and that the manual would be a little below 3500 lbs. I hope they are right...

TColl03

I'm ready to put down a deposit. Silver/quartz.

sparky57

Having both GPS and a cell phone, I have always wondered why someone would pay a monthly fee for Onstar. Similarly, why would anyone want an "adaptive cruise control" that dutifully mimics the inconsistent behavior of clueless drivers?

rw

TColl03

I'll bet that price range ($30-34K) is on the money. Acura risks losing their current TL customers if they venture into a higher price range. Value is one of the key ingredients of the popularity of this car. The standard features are incredible and 270hp? Nice.

I'm a current '99 3.2TL owner, and everytime I consider any other car (BMW 3-series, Lexus ES330, etc.), I add up the options I want (that the TL spoiled me on) and it's out of my price range.

larchmont

NEWS FLASH!

DNB and ACURA_DRIVER VINDICATED!!!!!


The '04 TL has virtually the same wheelbase as its 1999-2003 predecessor, but is 6.3 inches shorter in overall length.

larchmont

What the hell do they know?? I'll bet that they DO know.

Consumer Guide is highly reputable. Not infallible, but bet against them at your peril.

DNB and Acura_Driver are the dudes who did the calculations of the length based on the Seattle pics. DNB got 180" plus or minus 5, Acura_Driver got 185. They were both low, but they deserve credit, because they were really ballsy in going against the "conventional wisdom," and the main thing you could get from them was basically that the car was going to be shorter than you thought -- which turns out to be true.

ACTUAL LENGTH WILL BE 186.2". Take this to the bank.

larchmont

Oh, almost forgot:

GREAT GET, TCOLL03!!!!!

Raheel

Someone asked me to do a Anthracite, so I tried this..

larchmont

So..... here's how it seems:

Looks like the new TL really is going to be more of a "driver's car," just as we hoped and just as most of you were assuming. But, I think ride comfort is likely to be less good than you thought.

Those of you who thought the car would be about 189 or 190, because it was "just common sense," were wrong. And you may be skeptical, but in almost all instances there's a big ride difference between a 186" car and a 190" car. Most likely the TL will be quite similar to the TSX in almost all respects -- but an upgrade over it.

Kind of like "TSX-supreme."

It's possible, of course, that Acura has succeeded in making the ride comfort more like that of a 190" car, which I think would be unprecedented or close to it -- but I doubt it, because in that case, this would be way more than a 30-34K car.

It'll be great. It'll be a car that most of us will want to have.

But I think they'll lose a lot of the current TL market.


By the way: Aside from the size, the recent specific info that we've gotten from Justin and other authoritative sources has been right. Granted, they didn't give us exact info on size, because they said they didn't really know -- but they implied it would be about 190".

Raheel

BIGGER:

larchmont

Wait a minute, wait a minute, WAIT A MINUTE!

It also says this:

"The TL is based on the platform of the Accord sedan from parent-company Honda, but is larger, more luxurious, and more expensive."


LARGER THAN THE ACCORD SEDAN???


If that means what I think it means, it contradicts the statement that the length is 6.3" less than the current TL.


I think that most likely the 6.3 figure is accurate, but this latter statement isn't -- it's somehow a poorly-phrased reference to something other than what it seems to mean.

larchmont

P.S. I sent an e-mail to Consumer Guide, asking about the apparent contradiction.

Raheel

Heres a Diff Version of Anthracite, I tried

Raheel

Heres some diff colors for people that requested them

I made the yellow to see what it would look like, I have seen many new yellow Mazda 6's that look nice, not that I would ever buy Yellow, but just wanted to see

larchmont

We used to call that "taupe."

Raheel

Heres the diff shades of Blue because I dont know the proper shade

Raheel

call what taupe?

larchmont

What that last "anthracite" looks like.

Raheel

TOO MUCH TALK, MUST SLEEP!!

YOU SHOULD SLEEP TOO LATER

EmuMessenger

By the way, I guess we confirmed the disappointing news of "Brembo brand FRONT BRAKES" and junk in the rear.

Oh well, front is better than nothing. Hope they are close to 13".

Peter7777

Is a cell phone going to send for help if I'm in an accident and unable to speak? Is it going to track my car's position and report to the authorities where the car is in real time if the car is stolen?

fdefulvio

Can a cell phone remotely unlock your doors if you are locked out?
Can a cell phone remotely diagnose engine problems?

OnStar does offer additional benefits that can't be accomplished by a cell phone, but I couldn't justify the additional cost. I had the first year of basic service free with my 2002 Envoy, and only used it once to set-up the service.

Frank D.

Peter7777

People justify insurance policies every day despite their high cost. You may only need it once but that once could come at any time. I think that the cost is justified and I'm seriously thinking of moving away from the TL because OnStar appears to be lacking.

Unfortunately there does not appear to be a Japanese car under 34K that has OnStar, XM radio, and steering wheel radio controls. The only car that has all 3 of those features that I could tolerate would be the Pontiac Bonneville. Trouble is I did want to try a Japanese car for the first time in my life.

TColl03

On the $30-34K price range mentioned in the Consumer Guide mini article, I also noticed that AMI Autoworld also said the '04TL's price range is $29.5-34K.

VtecMW

I think someone at Consumer Guide took poor notes during the orientation. Maybe they forgot their tape recorder and wrote from memory.

"The TL is based on the platform of the Accord sedan from parent-company Honda, but is larger, more luxurious, and more expensive. The '04 TL has virtually the same wheelbase as its 1999-2003 predecessor, but is 6.3 inches shorter in overall length. Interior dimensions change little."

How is the TL larger than the Accord, 189.5", but 6.3 inches shorter than the current gen TL, 192.5"? That statement makes no sense. Do they mean larger in regards to interior volume?

I would take this write-up with a grain of salt. Although, I hope they are accurate in their comments about pricing.

VtecMW

If the comments are true, then YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!



I'd be very happy to get the TL at $34K.

Skyhawk

Recall that early TSX price speculation was "$25k-$30k"; we all know it came out mid- to high within that range.

If Consumer Guide says "$30k-$34k", think at least $32k-$34k. Knowing the secrecy with which Honda treats their prices on new models, I wouldn't be surprised if CG is flat out wrong, either.

larchmont

While I wouldn't get a different car because of OnStar, I have to agree with Peter. But admittedly it's hard to know how much it's worth, because we really don't know how useful it is -- we know little if anything about its track record. Most of us have a true feel for what "insurance" involves, so we can judge its worth and importance. But, OnStar??? How many of us know of an instance where it has been useful? Or, for that matter, an instance where a car had it but it DIDN'T work? Or, where it functioned correctly but it didn't help anyway? I don't know any of these things, and I certainly don't know the odds.

goldband

Im an onstar skeptic too.. but i have to add that I have a friend who rolled his suv on a highway ramp in the middle of the night and was seriously injured and unconscious. His onstar called the emergency services and next thing he knew he woke up inan ambulance on the way to the hospital. He figures it could have saved his lief (never mind how tupid he was to roll the car in the first place)

larchmont

Well, I already got a response. It's slightly informative, but disappointing:


"Thanks for the tip we will correct the error."


This came from the Managing Editor of Automotive.


So -- The Managing Editor thought there was indeed an error.
But, which was right and which was the error?

Fortunately, he provided a direct phone number. (How rare is that??? )
So I called, and got him immediately.

He said the info came from the Acura press kit -- and that's what it says there!!! It says both that the car is 6.3" shorter than the current TL, and that it's bigger than the Accord. Obviously, both can't be true, not what they seem to mean anyway.

He said he thinks what they mean is that the length IS that amount, but that the INTERIOR SIZE is bigger than that of the Accord and/or that the car is wider than the Accord.

He says they're looking into it, and that they'll let me know if they get anywhere.

larchmont

Interesting -- and I don't understand it.

He knows of one instance involving OnStar, and it saved his friend's life, but he's skeptical about OnStar.

I'm not saying it's stupid or anything like that, just that I don't understand it.

VtecMW

Great info Larchmont, even if the guy probably thinks you're crazy for calling him!

I suspect that they mean interior volume is larger than that of an Accord. If the car's exterior is in fact 6.3 inches shorter, at 186.2", I'd be pretty impressed. The Infiniti G35 is about 186.5", I believe.

We'll see very soon!

darth62

Well, the new TL is basically the equivalent of the old TL-S. The old TL-S went for about $34,000 with NAV. So, I think your numbers make sense.

The main issue that has me thinking is the difference in price between the TSX and TL lines. The TL will have to be at least $3,000 to $4,000 more to justify the existence of the TSX (then again, it is possible Honda does not play to keep the TSX around forever). So, I would think the bottom line would start about $33, a few thousand above the top of the line for the TSX.

I guess we'll see.

larchmont

Not any time recently, Darth.

That may be MSRP, I really don't remember -- even though I bought that exact car, not too long ago.
It was Feb. 2002, and the initial price I was quoted (and accepted) was something like $31,700.

More recently, if anything, the actual prices have been even lower. I'm sure there are a few people here and there who might have paid more, but for the most part, that TL-S w/Nav hasn't been going for anything close to $34K any time lately.

darth62

Here is the MSRP breakdown for the 2003, according to CG:

Base 4-door sedan $28,980
Base 4-door sedan w/navigation system $31,130
Type-S 4-door sedan $31,330
Type-S 4-door sedan w/navigation system $33,480

The Type-S with nav was 33,980 after destination. We should see at least that price for the 2004, which suggests the numbers CG published already may be an underestimated. Although this is PURE guess on my part.

Note that I am talking MSRP only here. Given that the TL will be a volume car, manufactured in America, discounts should eventually be available.