**ZETA IS BACK ON TRACK** (page 6)**
04-05-2005, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Loseit
my god...they keep finding themselves ways to fuck things up. It is like they want to fail.
And the 4-door Camaro thing....jeeeez i can see the guys and stangnet laughing their asses off right now. I get a headache thinking about this stuff.
And the 4-door Camaro thing....jeeeez i can see the guys and stangnet laughing their asses off right now. I get a headache thinking about this stuff.
If the Camaro is built, it will be a 2 door. It's a 4 passenger coupe basically.
04-05-2005, 07:00 PM
#122
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Originally Posted by titan
Still, I think the Camaro should be a strict two seater.
04-05-2005, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by titan
I'd engineer Sigma-lite to the point of giving it a different designation, like Omega for example.
https://acurazine.com/forums/automotive-news-6/no-more-platform-naming-gm-302475/
04-07-2005, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
If the Camaro is built, it will be a 2 door. It's a 4 passenger coupe basically.
04-08-2005, 08:44 AM
#125
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Originally Posted by gavriil
04-13-2005, 10:37 PM
#126
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GM hunts for architecture for rear-drive performance car - - By Dave Guilford - - Source: Automotive News
Automotive News / April 13, 2005
DETROIT -- General Motors is considering creating a rear-wheel-drive performance car in the tradition of the discontinued Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird.
"We're going to take another look at high performance rear-wheel drive," GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Tuesday at the Society of Automotive Engineers World Congress.
A Camaro-type vehicle was expected to be part of the rwd Zeta architecture being developed by Holden Ltd., GM's Australian subsidiary. But GM recently halted development of that program, saying vehicles would be too costly.
GM executives have said they are exploring existing GM rwd architectures to house vehicles similar to those proposed for the Zeta program. Options include modified forms of the Zeta and Sigma architectures. Sigma is a rwd architecture used by Cadillac.
The timing of the vehicles is in limbo until GM settles on a vehicle architecture.
Automotive News / April 13, 2005
DETROIT -- General Motors is considering creating a rear-wheel-drive performance car in the tradition of the discontinued Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird.
"We're going to take another look at high performance rear-wheel drive," GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Tuesday at the Society of Automotive Engineers World Congress.
A Camaro-type vehicle was expected to be part of the rwd Zeta architecture being developed by Holden Ltd., GM's Australian subsidiary. But GM recently halted development of that program, saying vehicles would be too costly.
GM executives have said they are exploring existing GM rwd architectures to house vehicles similar to those proposed for the Zeta program. Options include modified forms of the Zeta and Sigma architectures. Sigma is a rwd architecture used by Cadillac.
The timing of the vehicles is in limbo until GM settles on a vehicle architecture.
04-14-2005, 08:59 AM
#128
Not Asian
Camaro Clone On GM's Wish List
The Detroit News
April 13, 2005
By Ed Garsten
General Motors Corp. is working on a new rear-wheel-drive platform that could be the basis for a vehicle reminiscent of the departed Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird sport coupes.
"We're going to take another look at high performance rear-wheel drive," GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Tuesday at the Society of Automotive Engineers' 2005 World Congress.
In March, GM suspended plans to bring out a new generation of rear-wheel-drive vehicles for the North American market, citing uncompetitive costs.
The new platform -- known internally as Zeta -- served as the underpinnings for the popular Buick Velite concept car that debuted on the 2004 auto show circuit.
Jim Queen, GM vice president of global engineering, told The Detroit News in an interview this week that the automaker is now working on a rear-wheel-drive platform that would be more cost-effective, and could result in a Camaro-like vehicle.
"There's a Camaro hook in all of us," Queen said. "It may not be a Camaro, but there's a lot of us inside our company and outside our company that feel very passionate about it."
Queen said the new platform, or architecture, could be some form of Zeta or the Sigma rear-wheel-drive architecture used by Cadillac's new rear-wheel-drive sedans and crossover.
"It's going to be something I sort of call Zeta-light," Lutz said.
The Camaro and its twin, the Pontiac Firebird, were favorites of young drivers who loved tooling around in a powerful, muscle car at a moderate price.
But the cars fell from favor in the late 1990s as young consumers shifted to sport utility vehicles and front-wheel drive passenger cars and production ended in 2002.
The Detroit News
April 13, 2005
By Ed Garsten
General Motors Corp. is working on a new rear-wheel-drive platform that could be the basis for a vehicle reminiscent of the departed Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird sport coupes.
"We're going to take another look at high performance rear-wheel drive," GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Tuesday at the Society of Automotive Engineers' 2005 World Congress.
In March, GM suspended plans to bring out a new generation of rear-wheel-drive vehicles for the North American market, citing uncompetitive costs.
The new platform -- known internally as Zeta -- served as the underpinnings for the popular Buick Velite concept car that debuted on the 2004 auto show circuit.
Jim Queen, GM vice president of global engineering, told The Detroit News in an interview this week that the automaker is now working on a rear-wheel-drive platform that would be more cost-effective, and could result in a Camaro-like vehicle.
"There's a Camaro hook in all of us," Queen said. "It may not be a Camaro, but there's a lot of us inside our company and outside our company that feel very passionate about it."
Queen said the new platform, or architecture, could be some form of Zeta or the Sigma rear-wheel-drive architecture used by Cadillac's new rear-wheel-drive sedans and crossover.
"It's going to be something I sort of call Zeta-light," Lutz said.
The Camaro and its twin, the Pontiac Firebird, were favorites of young drivers who loved tooling around in a powerful, muscle car at a moderate price.
But the cars fell from favor in the late 1990s as young consumers shifted to sport utility vehicles and front-wheel drive passenger cars and production ended in 2002.
04-14-2005, 12:17 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by phipark
The Camaro and its twin, the Pontiac Firebird, were favorites of young drivers who loved tooling around in a powerful, muscle car at a moderate price.
But the cars fell from favor in the late 1990s as young consumers shifted to sport utility vehicles and front-wheel drive passenger cars and production ended in 2002.
Umm, no. The camaro sold like crap, and so the firechicken. Had nothing to do with SUV's....
If this was true the Mustang would have failed along with it.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH GM. THEY HAVE THEIR HEADS STUCK TOO FAR UP THEIR ASSES.
wakeup!
Blame it on SUV's... gimme a break...
04-14-2005, 01:13 PM
#130
The sizzle in the Steak
Originally Posted by SiGGy
Umm, no. The camaro sold like crap, and so the firechicken. Had nothing to do with SUV's....
If this was true the Mustang would have failed along with it.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH GM. THEY HAVE THEIR HEADS STUCK TOO FAR UP THEIR ASSES.
wakeup!
Blame it on SUV's... gimme a break...
If this was true the Mustang would have failed along with it.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH GM. THEY HAVE THEIR HEADS STUCK TOO FAR UP THEIR ASSES.
wakeup!
Blame it on SUV's... gimme a break...
The Mustang is a big seller....and is still going strong.
The Camaro and Firebird????? Why did they go away?
It's the same market for Ford as it is for GM.
Mustang > Camaro / Firechicken in the car buyers eyes.....but GM won't believe that they created an inferior product so they play the blame game.
04-14-2005, 10:39 PM
#131
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
Umm, no. The camaro sold like crap, and so the firechicken. Had nothing to do with SUV's....
If this was true the Mustang would have failed along with it.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH GM. THEY HAVE THEIR HEADS STUCK TOO FAR UP THEIR ASSES.
wakeup!
Blame it on SUV's... gimme a break...
If this was true the Mustang would have failed along with it.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH GM. THEY HAVE THEIR HEADS STUCK TOO FAR UP THEIR ASSES.
wakeup!
Blame it on SUV's... gimme a break...
09-12-2005, 11:27 AM
#132
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GM reverses course, says revised version of Zeta rear-drive architecture is back on track
JASON STEIN | Automotive News
Posted Date: 9/12/05
DETROIT - Six months after General Motors halted plans to use its Zeta rear-wheel-drive car architecture in North America, the company has revived the program.
In an interview with Automotive News last week, Jim Queen, GM's vice president of global engineering, said a revised version of Zeta is back on track.
Engineered at GM's Holden subsidiary in Australia, Zeta was expected to be the basis of the next-generation Pontiac Grand Prix and GTO; the Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo and a new version of the Camaro; and other vehicles. Vehicles in the program were expected to debut as early as 2006.
Queen did not discuss vehicles on the new version of Zeta or timing. Some vehicles that could be in the Zeta program include the next-generation Pontiac GTO as well as a Chevrolet coupe and sedans. They could debut by the 2009 or 2010 model year, say one company source and one industry analyst.
Queen said initial plans for Zeta stretched the architecture beyond its limits for some North American vehicles. "We needed to reassess and reconfigure the program," he said.
"As we started counting who was in and who was out of Zeta, we realized too late" that Zeta would not work in North America, Queen said.
Part of GM's reasoning in slowing Zeta's development was to focus on pulling forward its full-sized SUVs and pickups. GM's next-generation SUVs will debut early next year.
At the time, GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz wrote on GM's FastLane blog that GM had "canceled … plans to build rear-wheel-drive vehicles off the Zeta architecture."
"But that does not mean we've canceled plans to build rear-drive vehicles altogether," Lutz wrote. "We are simply reallocating resources (human and financial) to pull some other programs ahead and get other vehicles to market sooner."
The revised Zeta program is being developed in GM's Australian engineering center. The vehicle line executive on the program is Gene Stefanyshyn, the former vehicle line executive for GM's Epsilon, or mid-sized cars, in North America.
A GM spokesman said no product plans have been approved and that GM still is studying design themes, performance characteristics and variants for Zeta vehicles.
GM uses the term "architecture" to signify a common set of components, performance characteristics, a common manufacturing process, a range of dimensions and connecting points for key component systems.
JASON STEIN | Automotive News
Posted Date: 9/12/05
DETROIT - Six months after General Motors halted plans to use its Zeta rear-wheel-drive car architecture in North America, the company has revived the program.
In an interview with Automotive News last week, Jim Queen, GM's vice president of global engineering, said a revised version of Zeta is back on track.
Engineered at GM's Holden subsidiary in Australia, Zeta was expected to be the basis of the next-generation Pontiac Grand Prix and GTO; the Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo and a new version of the Camaro; and other vehicles. Vehicles in the program were expected to debut as early as 2006.
Queen did not discuss vehicles on the new version of Zeta or timing. Some vehicles that could be in the Zeta program include the next-generation Pontiac GTO as well as a Chevrolet coupe and sedans. They could debut by the 2009 or 2010 model year, say one company source and one industry analyst.
Queen said initial plans for Zeta stretched the architecture beyond its limits for some North American vehicles. "We needed to reassess and reconfigure the program," he said.
"As we started counting who was in and who was out of Zeta, we realized too late" that Zeta would not work in North America, Queen said.
Part of GM's reasoning in slowing Zeta's development was to focus on pulling forward its full-sized SUVs and pickups. GM's next-generation SUVs will debut early next year.
At the time, GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz wrote on GM's FastLane blog that GM had "canceled … plans to build rear-wheel-drive vehicles off the Zeta architecture."
"But that does not mean we've canceled plans to build rear-drive vehicles altogether," Lutz wrote. "We are simply reallocating resources (human and financial) to pull some other programs ahead and get other vehicles to market sooner."
The revised Zeta program is being developed in GM's Australian engineering center. The vehicle line executive on the program is Gene Stefanyshyn, the former vehicle line executive for GM's Epsilon, or mid-sized cars, in North America.
A GM spokesman said no product plans have been approved and that GM still is studying design themes, performance characteristics and variants for Zeta vehicles.
GM uses the term "architecture" to signify a common set of components, performance characteristics, a common manufacturing process, a range of dimensions and connecting points for key component systems.
09-12-2005, 10:11 PM
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This is excellent news. If Zeta is done properly, it could very well be GM's saving grace as it realizes that it needs to extend RWD sedans/coupes to the masses. Keeping only Caddy RWD is suicide. They're already lost ground to the 300/Magnum/Charger from DCX and the Mustang from Ford. If they're smart the platform will be flexible enough to strech to all the cars mentioned in the article in addition to some Buicks (I hope) without making them too much alike (like DCX has done with common interiors/ exterior proportions). You're back on track GM. Don't fuck up now. I guess that fire sale had more of a positive financial effect than I thought... 
09-13-2005, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by titan
^ The trend? Something tells me the resurgence of RWD won't be going away anytime soon, let alone 2010.
09-13-2005, 12:33 PM
#138
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by Loseit
So they are going to design all these full size cars for 6 years from now when people may want something smaller. They will blame the consumers on being finicky.
09-13-2005, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by charliemike
Can someone explain to me what is wrong with the CTS platform? Why not just use that? Why build an entirely new one? Is the CTS/STS going to move to Zeta?
09-13-2005, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by charliemike
If they do Displacement on Demand effectively ... Plus if you can fit a V8, can't you fit a V6 and an IMA motor too?
09-15-2005, 01:48 PM
#141
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Lutz the Putz speaks .... Zeta is dead to me (us..ie U.S.)
Lutz Lets Loose in Frankfurt
GM's vice chairman set out to set the record straight on a variety of issues following the Opel reveal on Tuesday. For one thing, he told reporters, the automaker's new rear-drive Zeta platform "is not dead or cancelled." Well, not exactly. The original version was, indeed, scrapped a few months back because "we did a lot of not-smart things…that didn't make business sense. We accepted the delay." As originally planned, GM's Australian subsidiary, Holden, will play the lead in developing the revised Zeta platform. But it is less and less likely that it will be able to export cars based on Zeta, at least to the United States. The Australian dollar's gain on the U.S. dollar "pretty much cancels your profits margin," Lutz lamented, so "exports to the U.S. don't look real promising at this point." But there will still be opportunities for Holden to ship product to other markets, such as the Middle East.
Lutz was more inclined to agree with recent reports in TheCarConnection.com suggesting that the auto industry - and GM in particular - will suffer a period of "payback" as the result of the recent employee-pricing incentive programs. "It's logical to assume some payback," he said, noting the sharp 13-percent downturn in GM's August sales. Complicating matters, GM dealers are emerging from the sales campaign with emptied lots. At the end of September, said Lutz, he expects GM's U.S. retailers to have just 860,000 vehicles in inventory, compared with 1.3 million at the end of September 2004. Add to that the impact of Hurricane Katrina and soaring oil prices and, admitted Lutz, "I would be foolish not to be worried."
Even so, he cautioned against making any rash decisions to revise corporate product plans. If fuel prices settle back to $2.20 to $2.50 a gallon, Lutz said he would not expect significant changes in consumer buying habits. There's little doubt that the giant automaker is increasing its work on hybrid products. What's less certain is what role diesels will play in GM's long-term U.S. strategy. With extremely tough new emissions standards coming, Lutz cautioned, there's no assurance manufacturers will be able to come up with cost-effective, customer-friendly solutions. A solution, he asserted, "doesn't exist now and anyone who tells you it does is being disingenuous."
General Motors' various divisions rolled out a slew of new products for the European market on Tuesday, "a clear expression of a less analytical and more emotion-driven company," declared GM's European chief executive, Fritz Henderson. The debuts included a new Saab 9-5 wagon and the affordable new Chevrolet Aveo. The U.S.-based Cadillac division brought the production of its BLS sedan to the Frankfurt show. The BLS is the smallest product in the Caddy line-up and, at least for now, exchange rates will keep it from making the jump to the U.S. market. Sharing its platform with other front-drive models, including the Saab 9-3, the front-drive BLS will be offered with a range of gasoline engines, as well as Cadillac's first-ever diesel. BLS will go up against European luxury models, such as the Audi A4.
from carconnection.com
GM's vice chairman set out to set the record straight on a variety of issues following the Opel reveal on Tuesday. For one thing, he told reporters, the automaker's new rear-drive Zeta platform "is not dead or cancelled." Well, not exactly. The original version was, indeed, scrapped a few months back because "we did a lot of not-smart things…that didn't make business sense. We accepted the delay." As originally planned, GM's Australian subsidiary, Holden, will play the lead in developing the revised Zeta platform. But it is less and less likely that it will be able to export cars based on Zeta, at least to the United States. The Australian dollar's gain on the U.S. dollar "pretty much cancels your profits margin," Lutz lamented, so "exports to the U.S. don't look real promising at this point." But there will still be opportunities for Holden to ship product to other markets, such as the Middle East.
Lutz was more inclined to agree with recent reports in TheCarConnection.com suggesting that the auto industry - and GM in particular - will suffer a period of "payback" as the result of the recent employee-pricing incentive programs. "It's logical to assume some payback," he said, noting the sharp 13-percent downturn in GM's August sales. Complicating matters, GM dealers are emerging from the sales campaign with emptied lots. At the end of September, said Lutz, he expects GM's U.S. retailers to have just 860,000 vehicles in inventory, compared with 1.3 million at the end of September 2004. Add to that the impact of Hurricane Katrina and soaring oil prices and, admitted Lutz, "I would be foolish not to be worried."
Even so, he cautioned against making any rash decisions to revise corporate product plans. If fuel prices settle back to $2.20 to $2.50 a gallon, Lutz said he would not expect significant changes in consumer buying habits. There's little doubt that the giant automaker is increasing its work on hybrid products. What's less certain is what role diesels will play in GM's long-term U.S. strategy. With extremely tough new emissions standards coming, Lutz cautioned, there's no assurance manufacturers will be able to come up with cost-effective, customer-friendly solutions. A solution, he asserted, "doesn't exist now and anyone who tells you it does is being disingenuous."
General Motors' various divisions rolled out a slew of new products for the European market on Tuesday, "a clear expression of a less analytical and more emotion-driven company," declared GM's European chief executive, Fritz Henderson. The debuts included a new Saab 9-5 wagon and the affordable new Chevrolet Aveo. The U.S.-based Cadillac division brought the production of its BLS sedan to the Frankfurt show. The BLS is the smallest product in the Caddy line-up and, at least for now, exchange rates will keep it from making the jump to the U.S. market. Sharing its platform with other front-drive models, including the Saab 9-3, the front-drive BLS will be offered with a range of gasoline engines, as well as Cadillac's first-ever diesel. BLS will go up against European luxury models, such as the Audi A4.
from carconnection.com
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