hammy954

wasup everybody,

im installing my nav-video setup soon, and im trying to get all the parts together. i need composite video cable, apple composite cable, audio rca cables, and video/audio couplers. anybody have a good source to get these cables from at a decent price??

thanks in advance

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

knukonceptz
monoprice

fourthmeal

2nd'ed!

Also www.deepsurplus.com and you can find great deals on eBay sometimes, as long as you know the brand is good. Example, Phoenix Gold's older stuff. Scosche wiring. That stuff.

mattastick

Darvex and sometimes you can get lucky with Parts Express.

zidenx

iTrader: (1)

You might want to check out monoprice also.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

found knukonceptz from you. Thanks btw.

arucakes

Cables are really important in any audio/video build; I was really into silver over copper Teflon insulated (type-e) RCA stuff from these guys http://www.audio-magic.com/Prod-BulkCable.html
It can be a bit pricey and may be overkill for your application; but it is what I will use if I drop a system in my car. Alpha and Belden have similar stuff (type-e) but is hard to get for your average consumer. Stay away from monster cable as it is not worth the money.
Also OFC (oxygen free) Copper is a good material to go with for your cables.

fourthmeal

This company you linked here is a snake-oil, golden ears type of company. Just like all the rest (including Monster, and I happen to know Noel Lee and visited his house on a few occasions thanks to working in the industry a while back.) They so believe the lies they tell, they think they are true after a while.

Just some decent copper wire is fine.

eggyhustles

O M G @ those prices on audio magic.


For rca's and speaker cable, i use monoprice.

For everything else i use knu or kicker..

arucakes

There are no lies about audio magic, silver is a better conductor than copper, sounds different and is more expensive. If you have listened to them, then I understand, if you have not then you don't understand. To each their own, regular type-e cable can be purchased for less and is the same stuff like i said, but is harder to get your hands on as a consumer. Some people like stuff others don't...
And yes the high end stuff audio magic sells has no place in a car, but their bulk rca stuff is nice, a little more than the monster crap and really does sound great.

zidenx

iTrader: (1)

I really really doubt the average person would even be able to hear a difference between silver and copper.

I'm also wondering how you compared the different cables. Did you listen to the exact same setup and swapped just the cables or were you listening to two different setups, one with the silver cable and the other with another brand?

fourthmeal

I am not one to debate as it divides us more than brings us together, HOWEVER:

ABX testing in the most articulate systems has proven time and again that all this nonsense about speaker wire is just that...nonsense. Time and time again, coat hanger wire tests as good as uber-expensive cables. Unless the wire affects capacitance, inductance, reactance, etc, there will be no audible difference that you can discern time and time again. Again, ABX testing will separate your money spent vs. what you actually are hearing. Psycho-acoustics, more specifically the effect of thinking you are hearing something sound better due to the fact you've spent more money on it is a well established phenomenon in audio-land.

Imagine, with all the money you save once you realize the truth about this, what you can do. The one thing you can do is help me put all these niche companies out of business, operating on false principles and on the hopes and dreams and lies of audio "magic".

arucakes

Its like saying race fuel is a gimmick, and sold under false pretenses, but I will no longer waste my time in this thread. People have said similar things in the past in RL and I just roll over there with my 16 gauge silver over copper wire (I got some of audio magics least exp speaker cable like $1.20 a foot at the time) over to there house, hook it up in place of their speaker wire (in many cases 12 gauge or lower) and the difference in spl at the same volume blows them away; a spl meter will show differences of up to 7db of difference. This is not the case with this forum, it is a battle of words which does not interest me. There is no personal gain for me, enjoy your ideas and logic.

arucakes

It is true, one must be able to hear the difference or it's not worth buying.
I have tested the cables a few different ways.
1. Balanced copper pro-co microphone cable vs similar gauge type-e (silver-over copper) same length. 40hz test tone from signal generator to Sunfire truesub.
SPL meter registered 7db decrease using the copper only cable.

2. During mono listening, switching out the RCA cable between the CD player and preamp, or stereo listening running dual outputs from a CD player into two different preamp inputs with 2 different types of cables and switch back and forth.

Also I worked high end sales and am used to a/bing cables for people so they can choose for themselves.

For some systems copper sounds better. You never know.

Basically, every component that goes between your source and your speakers colors the sound in some way, some in a better way than others.

Also, lets distinguish:

Pure silver cables - very $$ not for car audio use typically

Type-e cables - Silver over OFC copper with Teflon insulator usually 2x the price of comparable copper cable. Used in aerospace mostly and race cars and high end and commercial audio video application

Silver cables have a signature "clear high end (frequency) sound" and is a great choice for tube amps that may be too dull or something like that.

One of the nice things about type-e cables is they are Teflon insulated, very durable and a pleasure to solder with.

When running any car audio set up, often long unbalanced cable runs must be made. This can be supplemented by running a cable with more conductivity and less loss than a regular copper cable. A good compromise can be the type-e cable, not pure silver but really good and not too $$.

I mention audio magic because you may have a local distributor near you that can let you demo them. And I am referring to the type-e stuff not the pure silver they sell.

The Twisted 2 Cond-16 ga. speaker cable they sell for $360 for 100 feet is really nice and would be enough for your car, home theater and anything else you or your friends need. Also the Xstream 2meter RCA's are about 2x the price of Monster at $160 and can make a huge difference.

Hope this helps.

fourthmeal

No, race fuel when run in the right engine with the right tune produces verifiable differences in output which can be measured and viewed outright, as well as repeated with an ABX test.

Now don't run off, I think it is time for a little education. You are proposing that an SPL meter is showing up to 7dB of difference. Let's break that down. That would be a power factor increase of 7dB, right? That's quite odd. 3dB improvement would indicate DOUBLE the power input, if we are considering that speakers radiate in a full-space environment which they do in almost all cases except when beaming occurs. So, you are saying to me that you are recording many times more than DOUBLE the power making it to those speakers. Now, let's consider that an amp produces X amount of power. The wiring is a conductor. Every conductor short of a super-conductor (and I assure you that these wires are not in an SC state) will have some loss. You do not gain something by having a different conductor. You can only lose, savvy?

Now, you are saying to me that, due to this different cable, you are measuring a 7dB greater output. For the sake of human exaggeration I'm going to chop that down to a much lower number, 3dB. Let's say your wire helped by 3dB. You did not mention the amplifier in use so I'm going to generalize that you are using a 100W RMS amp. Granted in order to do an actual measurement you cannot use music as it is dynamic, so we will assume the best-case scenario for your claim which is a sine-wave signal. That is a 100W RMS sine wave, which is a torture test for any piece of equipment, and would be your very best chance at proving you correct. Now, given your cable is reducing power loss by 3dB, that would mean that 50W of RMS power is lost due to the "standard" wire. By your assertion, that wire he had should be able to light the carpet on fire.

So, are you saving lives by installing your precious cables? Or, are you so engrossed in the lie that you have bought into that you are willing to tell me another lie about power factor increases? I would buy that your wire would provide a more than sufficient conductor for most speakers, including high power pro-audio. Silver is indeed a better conductor, in fact it is the very best conductor. Of course the tarnish that it takes on due to being exposed to oxygen (which chemically reacts with it on a simple covalent-electron basis) is a poor conductor, which is why gold plating would be more suitable. Copper, aluminum, gold, silver, they are all conductors. You can use any one you want but you must be mindful of the size needed to allow sufficient electron flow. Skin effect is a real thing but not at standard audio frequencies, btw. If we end up having a conversation about microwave transmitter arrays, then by all means we can cover the value of skin effect.




Short version if you are into cliff-notes... No F-ing way.

Jonesi

All good stuff just take it down a notch everyone.


I was going to add this thread to the sticky so we could have a list of current sites to shop that have good prices.

fourthmeal

Sorry Jonesi,

I just get riled up when the whole issue pops up about buying hyper-expensive cables to improve sound. Same thing with power conditioners, special liquid to put on CD's, all of it. In every field there are snake-oil salesmen and in audio the community has to work hard to expel the constant barrage of total B.S. that goes with it. Experience and true scientific research has proven that which cannot be measured as a difference cannot be heard as a difference. Just trying to "keep it real" as audio in general is filled with some sort of mysticism which is unnecessary. This is simple reproduction of audio here.

Feel free to trim the thread for the good parts!

Jonesi

Nah it's all good stuff and educational. I learned a thing or two myself. Good discussion just want to keep it civil. It's good for all of us!

arucakes

Yea you should change your name to fourth grade...

fourthmeal

teehee.


It is true, I learned about impedance, resistance, ohms law, you know, the basics that make your claims false, in 4th grade.

But for pretty much a decade I have installed home theater and integration systems, projectors, etc., as well installed plenty of car audio on the side. What I learned in 4th grade and beyond I have tested and proven in the field, so I continue to use the logic of it.

I've set up 100k rooms routinely, and while wire quality is important there is a rational point of return on investment that one must make. I always preferred to spend the money on acoustic room treatments, the install itself, and the speakers, considering they make the most difference. In a car, we really can't do much w/ the acoustics of the car, other than deadening and such. Better to invest in processing of some sort, to help quell the dips and peaks in the response plot.


Oh yeah, for the thread: You can make your own rca runs out of simple ethernet twisted pair cable, or the like. You can run many channels in a single cable, and the noise rejection is just great. You have to get used to soldering up your own ends and all that, but it can be done w/ just a bit of practice, some heat shrink, techflex, etc. Then you have exact-fit wires, made to your specs, for a few bucks a foot on average. I love doing this, just make sure you plan out your techflex/heatshrink/cable end strategy carefully, and you can even include labels for L&R, +/-, etc.