WDPinit

Zapco amp is for the front component set and the AudioControl LC7i is to give me a really strong signal and bypass some factory parameters.

That's pretty good that your son gets the amp put on Xmas! Good to here that it has good sound quality. From my experience, the bass has a "smoother" quality to it when you upgrade to a better amp. When's the RL going to get its sub lol

cyberquest

here are the two amps laying beside each other. the old Rockford Fosgate 2 channel 300w amp on the left and his New Skar Audio mono 350w 1ohm stable amp on the right. its half the size of the Rockford amp and has 50w more power and can run at 1ohm.


he also got a new video game for xmas so i had to pry him away from it to go install the amp, and i got him new rear speakers that we need to install but he didnt want to mess with the speakers tonight he just wanted to get the amp hooked up and hear how it sounds. i ended up cutting a new piece of wood for the side panel because the floating amp rack i built wont work because the gas tank sits right under where i would need to mount the bracket to the floor and it sits too close to the floorboard so i had to scratch that idea so it got mounted where the old amp was but it needed a little stronger piece of wood so i made it out of 1/4 inch mdf board i had laying around.


i still havent decided what i want to do with the wires just yet, i may drill holes in the new piece of wood and just bring the wire through the holes where they hook up to the amp. i might also just turn the amp sideways so most of the wires are pointed down. with him not wanting to spend a lot of time working on it tonight he didnt want to give much input on how he wanted it because he knew it would only mean more work. damn lazy teenagers...lol.



the sound difference between the older Rockford and the new Skar is very noticable and sub has a lot more punch to it now. and since the new amp is a D class and not a AB class like his old amp it seems to be drawing a lot less power but is delivering a lot more sound. even though the new amp is half the size the new amp isnt that much lighter then the older Rockford amp, all the connectors and adjustment knobs looks like they are all made of quality stuff. i will have to say i give the amp a 5 star rating so far.

WDPinit

Looks good!

Yeah the reason why you're much louder now is bec Class D amps are much more efficient so you're getting more out of it. Maybe you could mount the amp on the box with a board and some of that extra sound deadening after you do your car (don't want the amp to rattle against the box). Hiding them behind the holes is also a good idea like you said. Just make sure to use zip ties to clean them up a bit if you want.

Rear speakers won't make that much of a difference in how things sound, just helps to add some fill to music.

As far as your son, don't take it personally with the video games lol. At 15/16 that's how it goes including with myself haha. I wonder what game it was...

cyberquest

oh dont get me wrong my son got being a video game junkie from ME......lol. He is usually playing GTA 5 but not sure what the new game is because my wife took him to get it, me i am either playing Forza or Battlefield 4, hes on Xbox1 but i am still using the 360. ane the rear speakers in his car should make a little more difference since the speakers in there now are the 35 year old original paper cone speakers that will probably crumble to dust when we remove them.....lol.

and as far as the ACURA getting its stuff put in......as soon as i finish this message i am headed over to pull his car out of the shop so i can pull the acura in so its getting done.....NOW.

and here is what i meant about doing with the wires. i would drill holes so the wires come through the wood and you only see a small portion of the wire as it comes through the wood and connects to the amp, all the rest of the wiring would be hidden behind the wood.

cyberquest

ok so i am over working on the acura and i have it all torn apart and just got the factory subwoofer removed and already i am seeing somewhat of a problem and somewhat of a possible blessing....lol.

as far as i can tell the factory subwoofer is NOT a 8" sub but is in fact a 10" sub. my reason for this thought are two main reasons, for one the Pioneer sub can almost fall through the opening for the factory subwoofer and measuring the mounting holes for the factory sub they measure 9.5 inches across from each mounting hole. i went out and measured the 10s in my wifes car and sure enough they are 9.5 inches across from each mounting hole.

so it appears that i could put a 10" sub in place of the factory sub and it would pretty much bolt right up to the factory holes for the most part. now i need to make the decision to either make an adapter so i can mount this 8" pioneer in the 10" opening which isnt a problem, or do i take advantage that the hole is larger then i thought and move up to a 10" sub instead. if i did move up to a 10" then that means i wasted my money buying the 8" but who wouldnt rather have a 10 as apposed to a 8......lol.

here are a couple sneak peak pics of the factory sub next to the Pioneer.



here is the Pioneer sub sitting in the factory subwoofer hole in the rear deck, you can see the holes for the factory subwoofer around the outter edge of the Pioneer sub and see they are a much larger bolt pattern then the Pioneer 8"


my first thought was that the Pioneer maybe runs a little smaller for some reason in its bolt pattern so i grabbed a Skar 8" sub and its the same thing, the factory bolt pattern for the factory sub is much larger then a 8" sub.


so at this point i have 3 options...

1. build a adapter to fit the Pioneer 8" to the factory hole.
2. buy a 10" sub so i can bolt it right up to the factory holes and have the advantage of a 10" sub instead of a 8' sub
3. ditch the factory sub location idea and just build a damn box for the Pioneer sub in the trunk like i normally do...lol.

my thoughts right now are to go out and yank one of my wifes 10" subs out of her box and test fit it in the Acrua and see how it fits in the factory sub hole and go from there......so thats what i am headed to do right now... hopefully the wife wont wake up till i am done....lmao.

cyberquest

ok pulled the 10 and it is in fact just a hair too large for the hole, i do have a metal saw and could trim the hole just a hair for it to fit but i will pass on that. so its either the adapter plate or build a box for the trunk.

damn it man

cyberquest

ok.....so far....long day.

i finally went ahead and started my post on the build in the RL audio section so i will give you the link so you can see the progress. i decided to attempt to make the adapter plate to keep with my original idea of everything being installed in the factory location....so far so good but i am at a stand still right now cause the wifey had to go to work so i am watching the 3yr old but i got a good amount done so far.

build link.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rl-a.../#post15923757

WDPinit

Lol if I were you, I'd just make the adapter plate. It's something new for you to try haha. You really had a productive day though! I checked out your build thread and it's really well written out as well def could help some of the RL guys.

With the TL my day was not as productive lol. I was able to get her washed up and removed the trunk emblems (really cleans up the look). Also measured the trunk area for the box and it looks like I've got at least 2 ft going vertically and about 34 in horizontally to work with. So I have alot of room to work with. Next weekend should be box work and sound deadening woo hoo

​​​​​​

cyberquest

i just woke up from my old man nap and i am headed back over to the shop now to start on the sound deadening which i am not looking forward to because i know its going to be time consuming. lots of rolling and cutting my old fat arms arent looking forward to......lol.

and your right about doing something new for me, believe me a i said to myself more then once "why dont i just build a damn box".....i know it would sound better and take less time....BUT....its something i have done time and time again. this will be my first ever attempt to replace a factory sub like that and it is a little more of a challenge then i thought it would be.

i think i have however decided to run a 4ga amp wire instead of a 8ga which will overkill for what i have planned with the factory sub replacement but knowing me at some point it wont be enough and i will start adding to it and when i do at least i will already have the power wire ran.

WDPinit

Lol you shouldn't be worried about "your old fat arms" when you use them to paint on a daily basis!

Probably best you didn't build a box for that sub anyway. I think those are optimized for free air.

You really can't go over kill with wiring because it's always the bigger the better. That's why I'm going to run at least 8 guage to my Zapco.

What line out converter are you using?

WDPinit

I really can't wait to get this box going. I miss feeling the impact with my ported P1s. I guess my sub is more geared towards sq as it blends with rock music. I'd much rather feeling it hitting me with rock

cyberquest

i am not using a line out converter i am just going to use the high level inputs on the Pioneer amp which performs pretty much the same way. not all amps have them but the one i plan on using for now has them so i plan on using them, if i upgrade amps later it will be with the Skar Audio MSK-200.1D i will need to add one because it doesnt have high level inputs. the MSK-200.1D is a 200w rms D class mono amp that can run at 1ohm and would be a perfect amp for the pioneer,

another thing about this pioneer sub is that they claim it can be run buy the factory amp which sounds a little unrealistic but for giggles i hooked up the sub while it was just laying there to the factory amp and i was actually surprised that it actually ran the sub and it didnt sound that bad at all, but using the same amp isnt going to produce more sound but if you wanted to you really could use it. i want to give it another sound test later tonight once i get the sound deadening finished up.

small video of the factory amp running the pioneer sub, the adapter piece and the speaker are both just laying there and are NOT mounted but i just wanted to see how much it would actually push the sub.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Kroyqyb6Y

i have only got to work on the car about a hour since i last worked on it and this is how far i have got with the sound deadening so far. this is my first time ever using this stuff and its not near as bad as i thought it would be, it forms pretty easy around things and bolts and stuff that need to be used will push right through the soft material. the Noico stuff is ribbed with a diamond pattern and you roll it until it is smooth, sadly i bought a cheapo roller and it already broke so doing what i can to get it pressed down good enough. it have almost half of the rear deck done so far.

WDPinit

I'm surprised at how well the factory amp pushes the sub lol. It def sounds nice too!

Call me a stalker for checking out the rest of your channel lol, but that red Conquest really sounded mean. What kind of power does that put down? I'm assuming you do your own work on that too haha

cyberquest

i would have to look and see which red quest it was...it could have been my wifes 86 or my friends 88...both of which i did the motors in so it really wouldnt matter which one it was....LOL. anything conquest related on that channel i worked on, there is one video on there of me at the drag strip in my black 87 and i do a 4500 rpm 2 step launch and snap both the front and rear driveshaft yokes at the same time and just drop the driveshaft straight on the starting line...lol. good times. the black 87 car held the #11 spot for a while on the top 20 fastest recorded conquests of all time list that we have but i think its been knocked back to like #17 now. it ran a 12.73 in the quarter mile running 25psi of boost on a stock block to qualify for the top 20 list you have to have documented proof of your run (time slip) and a video of the car actually making the pass so its a legit list. i have been building and working on conquest for over 12 years and i have owned probably 10-12 of them over the years. i have never had any of them on the dyno to know how much horsepower i was making but cars running quarter mile times close to mine are around 300-350hp and around 400-450tq on a single over head cam motor. sorry i can talk conquests all day.

as far as the acura i been working on this stupid car all day long, i just now got finished up with running the 4ga power wire and ground wire so i was able to get a amp hooked up on it. i tried the pioneer first and it sounded like shit....so i tossed it to the side and grabbed the Rockford Fosgate we just took out of my sons car and it sounds much better with that amp. the sub has a lot more sound now but i cant say i am completely happy with how it sounds. i am getting some good amount of rattle coming from somewhere and i think its coming from the stupid auto vent shade and there is nothing i can do to stop that from rattling.

i am just going to say i am glad i ran the 4ga wire because all the work i just put into this car today it should sound much much much louder...lol. if i would have just built a box in the trunk i would have been done hours ago and it would be twice as loud. needless to say everything is put back together except the rear seat and rear deck trim piece are still out of it because i am not sure where i am going with it from here i just know i am tired as hell and now i have to go to work which suuuuuuucks. LOL

cyberquest

one thing i forgot to mention is right now i am hooked into the factory wiring AFTER the amp and thats just so i could get it hooked up and hear how it sounded. i need to look up the wiring diagram so i can figure what wires i need to tap into PRE amp i just havent had the time to do it so it may sound even better once i get that swapped around.

its running through a cheap PAC line out converter that my buddy had laying around right now since the Rockford doesnt have high level inputs.

WDPinit

Idk what you mean by auto vent shade, but your main culprits for rattles are the rear deck and 3rd brake light cover in Acuras. If it is some kind of vent in the rear deck area, I would try to go in from under the rear deck (remove the liner from in your trunk) and take a look.

With pre amp, make sure the head unit has a strong enough input signal. Ik in the TL, you'd need a line driver to get what you want out of it going pre amp.

I went to CarAudio.com last night to get some info on what'd be a good tune for my port with my musical tastes before putting everything in on the box builder. Actually got the info I needed and a whole box design instead! I was going to tune low to 30 or 32 Hz, but someone advised me on going up to 36hz and sent me all the cuts.

cyberquest

the auto vent shade is a little shade that comes up when you push a button by the sunroof, its made of a cloth material with holes in it and it has a motor and some sliding arms that make it move up and down. it sits in a cylinder shaped piece that goes across the rear deck and sits just behind the subwoofer. the subs frame and the vent shade almost tough and i have a couple pieces of the sound deadening material wedged between them so they cant touch. before i put everything back together i need to put on a heavy bass song and get in the back and just try and listen and pin point where the rattle is coming from. tonight i am going to tape down all the wiring and stuff and maybe put some sound deadening on the bottom side of the rear deck from inside the trunk while i am at work tonight.

36hz should be a decent tuning point for you since there arent many average songs you would listen to that will go down lower then that. i tune mine down in the lower 30s because we listen to a lot of music that specifically goes down to those tones. i think the pre made box in my wifes car is tuned at around 36-38hz and it can play just about anything and sound good, even my Bass Mechanik songs.

WDPinit

Oh it's one of those things. Lol one of those useless features they put in high end cars. And the reason I mentioned going in from under is because you could possibly lift up with your fingers and find a rattle area or it could be the metal under there.

And the reason he went with 36hz is because I listen to all kinds of music. It also allows to get that nice feel from the kick of bass in your heavier rock. I rarely listen to bass tracks so tuning to 30 or 32 isn't really necessary. I will need a crossover though. What is the setup in your wife's car haha?

cyberquest

she has two 10" Power Acoustik Crypt subs in a BassWorx box being run by a Precision Power Black Ice 600w mono amp in the back of her pathfinder. it also has a factory bose stereo system in but it has a aftermarket pioneer head unit in it. we call this box the "magic box" because its one of the best sounding boxes i have ever heard, i sold it once and hated myself for it and ended up buying it back from the person i sold it to.






BassWorx makes some amazing boxes and they have all kinds of different styles, if i ever just wanted to buy a pre-made box i would for sure get another one of theirs.

check out their website.
Enclosures - Bassworx


i do have my liner removed from inside the trunk and last night listening for rattles its turns out my navigation unit in the trunk is one of the things that is rattling really loud, if i grab it with my hand i can stop it from rattling. since i need to send it out to get fixed anyway i think tonight i am going to unhook it and remove it so i can eliminate it as a rattle so i can track down other things that are rattling. i may coat that side with sound deadening as well.

i am not sure i am ever going to be able to get all the rattles, when the sub is hitting the whole shelf starts flexing...lol. if you lay something like a screw on the shelf while the sub is hitting the screw will jump around like a mexican jumping bean.

WDPinit

Haha looks like your wife enjoys bass! Even more surprised you didn't build the box! The fact that your deck still rattles is a little odd since you deadened it well... And the screw jumping isn't rattles that's just the power of bass

My TL unfortunately will be needing some engine work done next week

Bchester6

Crossover for what? Is there something wrong with the crossover in your amp?

WDPinit

My amp does not have a subsonic filter only low pass

cyberquest

my amp was made 12 years ago it doesnt have a subsonic filter, neither does the Precision Power amp in my wifes car.

WDPinit

Plenty of amps don't, I just wanted to add one so I don't hurt my sub if there's low low bass (bottoming out). You tune your boxes lower you said, so you don't have to really worry.

cyberquest

and speaking of tuning boxes.....i think i am abandoning ship on the whole sub in the factory location idea. i have tried tracking down the rattles but in the end i think its the LACK of sound it has thats going to make me give it up. right now i am have the dual 2ohm coils run up to 4 ohms and i am just using one of the two channels of the Rockford amp to run the sub. with the Rockford running in two channel mode i am only getting 75w per channel at 4ohms so the sub only has 75w running it right now and i have the gain just under half way up. so i am only putting half the rms power to the sub that it can handle and i have way too many rattles and way too little bass. i can turn the gain down to where the rattles are less but then i am getting to the point that the factory sub is probably louder.

so after all the work i am probably going to put the factory sub back in its place and start blueprints for a box for the trunk. i have already kind of rough sketched one out and have an idea of what i want to do i just need to fill in all the blanks. then the question is do i stay with the Pioneer sub or go with what i know will satisfy my tastes and put a Skar sub in it and be done with it.

since i still have the funky L shaped box that i built for my escape i think i will out the factory sub back in place and put the Pioneer in the L shaped box in the trunk and see how it sounds and go from there. i am sad to end up going this way because of the work i have put into trying to make it work in the factory location but i would rather make the change now before i put it all back together. oh well.....we live and we learn

Bchester6

Can I ask why you aren't running your RF in bridged mode? Why only one channel driven?
You should definitely get a regular woofer because unfortunately you've already had a taste of bass with you other setup so all of your builds will be compared to that setup until you eclipse it and then on to the next one. Slippery slope isn't it?! Anyways, shallow mount subs tend to fall short when asked to do too much especially if you're basshead LOL. Real sub= real bass.
Have either one of you considered a sealed application and just porting the rear deck of your vehicle to allow the frequencies to penetrate the cabin. Remember your trunk is an enclosure in itself and it may stop rattles coming from this area as well due to the lack of resistance.

cyberquest

The Rockford amp is a 300w rms amp and the sub is only rated at 150w rms so running the amp in bridged mode would be too much power for it. i was going to use the older Pioneer and we talked about me running it bridged and it would have only been around 120-130 watts and would be good wattage wise but when i hooked it up it did not sound that great. its been laying around for a long time and i know i used it to test some subs a while back but this was the first time i really attempted to use it. However just now ringing a bell in my head is another amp i have laying here which is a Sony Explode 3/4 channel amp and you can bridge the rear channel on it and i think its 150w rms.....going to have to give that one a try and see how it sounds.

i did give thought to just leaving the factory subwoofer out and then there would be a 8 inch hole in the rear deck to allow sound into the cabin. like you mentioned i am a basshead and i know for my taste i think the only way to go is ported. lucky for me i have a ported 8" box sitting in my kitchen from my escape so i can do a little testing with it and see how it sounds. i actually have a 8" sealed box as well but its for two 8s not just a single box and sadly is not a dual chamber box or i would test it with just the one sub. i have the Skar sub i could also give a try and i know it would be better suited to my tastes and its 400w rms so it could handle all the power the RF amp had to throw at it.

Bchester6

I have never damaged a sub from Too much power. Just gain it down to an appropriate level. I run amps that are "overrated" to my subs ratings to keep a good strong undistorted signal and to help damping of cone. Headroom as well. Its better to have the power and not use it than to not have it all. Underpowering subs is more damaging.

WDPinit

You said the RF is class AB. So that's one problem as they aren't as efficient as class D for sure. And Bchester I totally agree. My sub is being powered at 150w over its RMS with no issue

Bchester6

To be quite honest with you efficiency doesn't equal volume and output unless you are maxing out your system over a long period of time. Music is dynamic and transient so you're not going full tilt all the time anyways. In fact I would venture to say that most people aren't even reaching there amplifiers RMS ratings unless you are listening to your system at maximum output. Having said that, class D amplifiers have come a long ways but I've always run Subs off of two channels bridged because I believe that the sound quality is audibly superior especially in wagon or hatchback application. From my own experience, a good battery supply and alternator will give you're amp enough voltage to perform exceptionally so that it balances out any of those in efficiencies from an A/b amplifier design.

cyberquest

on a interesting note i turned my crossover down just a little from around 80hz to maybe 60 hz and........almost all of my rattling is gone. Bass Mechanik can still get a little rattle but anything else i play its pretty clear with no rattles. everything sounds much better but its still aint loud enough...lol.

i may try bridging the RF amp or i may give the Sony a try, there are a few different things i am going to try over the weekend and hopefully i will reach some conclusion by the end of the weekend so i can put my damn rear seat back in...lol.

Bchester6

Bridge that old-school RF and call it a day! :-) what are your front components crossed over at?

Bchester6

It's okay to have a gap in your crossovers. Underlapping is undervalued. Most SQ systems have underlapping crossover points to smooth out Peaks.

cyberquest

mine is all factory other then the sub i added, and since my nav screen doesnt work i dont have any ability to adjust any of the bass, treble, or subwoofer adjustments.

like i mentioned i am going to try a few different things over the weekend including bridging the amp before i change anything else because thats as easy as moving two wires.

cyberquest

ok so my end of the weekend conclusion is the aftermarket sub in the factory loction suuuuuucks!! just way to much stuff rattling around and it just wasnt loud enough. when i replaced the factory sub back in i swear it was actually louder then the aftermarket sub. i think its more that you could hear it and not all the rattles so it sound more clear.

soooo.....i put the Pioneer sub in the funky L shaped box i have and whamo we got bass....lol. with it in a ported box in the trunk i am getting way more bass from it and its much louder overall. and its actually not overpowering at all to the rest of the factory system and i am pleased with how it sounds.

WDPinit

Well that's good. Glad you finally put it in a box haha.

Bchester6

Rock on brotha...
What did you do with the hole in your rear deck where the stock sub lived?

cyberquest

yeah i wish i would have went the box route from the start because i would have went with a much different subwoofer.

cyberquest

sorry Bchester6 i didnt see that you asked this question for some reason. i just put the stock sub back in the rear deck and i hooked it back up and i am just tapped into the wiring.

so far i am still pleased with how it sounds now with the box in the trunk, its not as much bass as i could have had if i would have started with a nice Skar sub like is in my sons car. they are about the same price and the Skar 8" subs are rated for 400w so i could have put more power to it as well. i do have the Rockford amp bridged like you mentioned and the Pioneer sub seems to be handling the power just fine and i have the gain just a hair under half way.

I need to get a box built specific for the Pioneer sub because the box i have it in now that came out of my escape has 1 cubic feet of space and Pioneer recommends only 0.5 cubic feet for a ported box. However since i may change subs i may just leave it alone for now and since the Pioneer sub can run in free mode it should be ok with the extra air space.

atomlinks

Sorry to hear the pioneer sub didn't work out. Was hoping it would work out as I'd love to upgrade my factory sub but it really doesn't sound like going that route is worth the trouble. Can the pioneer sub be returned at this point? I'm sure that Skar isn't that far off price and would put out a lot more if you go the box route. I don't even think I'd bother with making a box for that pioneer if it were me.