Southbound

For those of you who have replaced the BOSE speakers with the POLK DX6 speaker and find it to be overly bright, I have come up with a mod that works really well to put things back in balance.

THIS MOD IS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT ADDED AN EXTRA POWER AMP OR WHO HAVE NOT BYPASSED THE EQ! If you have done either of the above, you would not want to do this mod. If you've bypassed the EQ, then you have no need to cut the brightness down. If you've added an extra power amp, then you should bypass the EQ instead of performing this mod. The resistor values may be insufficient for the extra power that you would be throwing at the speakers.

I have replaced all four of my door speakers with the POLK DX6s, and like many of you, have found the overall sound to be a bit too bright. The treble control just doesn't quite take care of it to my liking. I tried bypassing the EQ with the STOCK head unit and found that in order to do things in a manner that doesn't cause engine noise, etc., the volume drops by about 12db. This left me with a flat response, but not enough volume. For those of you who plan to add an aftermarket amp, I'd propose that you go about performing the EQ bypass in the final manner that IGGY has outlined in other posts. I have verified his technique as well, and it was the only method that I found free of anomalies when turning on and off electrical circuits. The additional amp will make up for the subsequent loss in volume.

THUS, THE NEED FOR THIS MOD IS OBVIOUS WHEN ONLY USING THE FACTORY HEADUNIT AND EQ... This mod cuts down the level of the tweeters, and also provides an additional high frequency rolloff to more closely counteract the EQ high frequency boost. After this mod, slight tweaks of the treble control now provide nice adjustments that are needed when switching between CDs and playing different recordings. Also, the midrange is now restored to its proper level when the volume is increased. VOCALS ARE BACK WHERE THEY BELONG, AND SNARE DRUMS HAVE NICE CRISP SNAPS!

Everybody has a different set of ears that may not match mine... BUT I'VE DONE A LOT OF LISTENING AND A LOT OF CONSIDERATION TO THE ELECTRONICS INVOLVED IN ORDER TO COME UP WITH THIS RECOMMENDED MOD. I feel that my recommended values, now allow the treble control to work as it was intended to provide proper high frequency tone control. Therefore, most listeners should now be able find a personal "sweet spot" somewhere on the treble control.

HERE GOES...

PART 1. Place a 3.9ohm/5watt power resistor in SERIES with the tweeter on ALL FOUR DOORS WITH THE POLK DX6 speaker. This will cut down the overall tweeter output by about 6db per speaker. You will still have PLENTY of overall volume with the STOCK FACTORY HEAD UNIT. This is only cutting down the high frequencies that have been OVER EMPHASIZED by the factory EQ in the first place. Give this a listen and determine for youself whether or not you think things are still a bit too bright. Is there still that overly emphasized "splish-splash, psst, psst" type of sound on cymbals, etc.? A lot of listeners may find this portion of the mod to be sufficient for their needs. But, if things still sound a bit "hissy" and the midrange still seems a bit lacking... then you will want to add part two of this mod.

PART 2. Connect a 4.7uF/35volt (or higher) NON-POLARIZED electrolytic cap from the tweeter side of the series 3.9ohm resistor to the negative terminal of the speaker. (The negative terminal of the midrange speaker and the tweeter are connected to the same terminal post). LEAVE THE EXISTING 4.7uF CROSSOVER CAP THAT IS INSTALLED ON THE STOCK POLK SPEAKER AS IT IS. (It is a coincidence that the stock crossover cap and this roll-off mod cap are of the same value) This additional roll-off cap will provide an additional 6db/octave roll off to the very high audio frequencies beginning at around 10Khz. This will knock down the annoying hiss like sounds and allow you to turn things up louder and thus provide you with more pronounced midrange while still producing plenty of crisp highs!

The POLK DX6 speaker makes the process of adding these mod components VERY easy. Again, it is a lot of the reason why I selected this speaker for a simple FACTORY REPLACEMENT. As I said before, leave the stock Polk crossover cap in circuit where it is. However, since you are making solder mods to the speaker, you might as well go about helping yourself to prevent the potential nuisance terminal short to the door frame while you're at it.

While removing my DX6 speakers, I found that the positive side mounted terminal and the other small positive tweeter terminal are the ones that tend to rest on the door frame hole cutout. (They happen to be the two terminals where the crossover cap is mounted to) To help prevent future short circuit problems, desolder the crossover cap from the positive side terminal of the speaker and CUT THAT SIDE TERMINAL OFF WITH A PAIR OF MEDIUM WIRE CUTTERS. Then resolder the crossover cap back to the center post of this terminal where the rivet is located. Next, AS PART OF THE TWEETER ROLL-OFF MOD, desolder the other side of the crossover cap where it is connected to the positive side of the tweeter wire on the small middle terminal. Remove the tweeter wire from this terminal and replace it with one lead of the 3.9ohm/5watt resistor. Bend this terminal up and resolder the crossover cap and new tweeter resistor to this terminal with a SMOOTH bead of solder that won't cut through any door insulation tape. Cut off ANY protruding cap or resistor leads from this terminal that might work their way through insulation tape on the door hole cutout. Next, solder the loose positive tweeter wire to the other loose end of the resistor. Then mount the 3.9ohm/5watt resistor on the back bottom side of the magnet. Use RTV silicone to glue it down to the magnet to prevent rattles and buzzes. DO NOT MOUNT IT ON THE ACTUAL BACK OF THE MAGNET OR IT WILL BE HIT BY THE WINDOW WHEN IT ROLLS DOWN! There is a nice space on the bottom edge of the magnet just above the terminal strip to mount this resistor. Next, solder one end of the 4.7uF NON-POLARIZED cap to the junction of the 3.9ohm resistor and the positive tweeter wire. (this junction will not actually be soldered to any terminals, but rather be soldered all together and hanging in free space. The resistor lead is strong enough to hold all of this in place without moving). Solder the other end of the cap to the negative terminal of the speaker itself. Glue the cap down with RTV to the metal basket of the speaker near the side of the terminal strip. Put insulation on ALL of the component leads to prevent shorts between them! This would complete the TWEETER ROLLOFF MOD.

While you have the speaker out and on the bench for solder mods. ADD THE TERMINATOR MOD! This will give you an improvement in overall clarity and allow you to turn things up louder before being perceived as too loud. At this point, it is an easy mod to perform... Again, the terminator mod consists of a .05uF/1kv ceramic disc cap in series with a 100ohm/1watt resistor soldered directly across the overall speaker terminals. The polarity of either component does not matter, and this series soldered connection between the cap and resistor does not touch anything else. Next, solder the loose end of either the cap or resistor to one of the speaker terminals, and the other loose end of this RC network to the other speaker terminal. Again, polarity of any aspect of this series network does not matter.

TIPS: Radio Shack actually sells half of the components that you will need for these mods. They sell a 4.7uF/50volt NON-POLARIZED cap that would be a perfect size for the tweeter roll off cap. They also sell a nice metal oxide 100ohm/1watt resistor for the terminator mod. However, you will have to get the other components from elsewhere. For those who do not know where to look, try looking up NTE electronics online at www.nteinc.com They make ALL of the components needed for the mod(s). They have a directory of distributors near you. Most electronic supply type of stores stock their line of components. You can use a radial or axial lead cap for the tweeter rolloff mod. I found the radial lead to work out great, but I also saw the Radio Shack axial lead cap today, and it has long enough leads to bend back and reach around itself to fit the places it needs to go. JUST BE SURE TO SOLDER THE ROLLOFF CAP ON THE TWEETER SIDE OF THE 3.9OHM RESISTOR! If you solder it to the wrong side of the resistor you will be shorting out the entire speaker with a cap, and the amp will not like that!

FINAL COMMENTS: This custom mod to a cheap and dirty crossover network, will really help the sound of the DX6 speaker! The highs will be toned down to where they belong and the midrange will pop back up to where it belongs! IT SOUNDED REALLY SWEET last night while driving around with the door panels off. HOWEVER, THE DOOR PANELS SUCK FOR SOUND!!!!:yack: They block almost a third of the speaker and make for a somewhat hollow sound as well as muffling the definition. They are responsible for a lot of the mushy sound in the stock system. I would suggest that you pull out all of your speakers and do the mods on the bench, then re-install the speakers while leaving the door panels off. Then make sure that they all have sound. YOU WILL MOST LIKELY BE AMAZED AT HOW MUCH NICER THEY NOW SOUND! WE WILL HAVE BEATEN BOSE AT ITS OWN GAME!!! However, before you get too excited with your new sound, use some tape and drape one of those red type shop towels over each of the speakers. This is approximately what it will sound like once you re-install the door panels. It will disappoint you a bit. But I don't see a way around this one

Out of bandwidth again... better go

GO FOR IT, YOU'LL BE GLAD YOU DID!
Southbound

Southbound

I just wanted to add a couple of more comments about the POLK DX6 tweeter mod...

I believe that the results with the stock electronics will be most pleasing to you. Again, it's not supposed to be a substitute for those who have perfomed complete system upgrades, but for a couple of hundred bucks, it REALLY SOUNDS SWEET!

I don't think you can come up with an easier or more satisfying upgrade for that type of money. The stock electronics are all left intact so that you don't have to be concerned about warranty issues, etc. If you ever had REAL trouble, you could even re-install the old BLOWS speakers on their plastic spacers and everything would look stock. It's the only way to tone down the highs and preserve adequate volume without adding an additional power amp, etc. There's no such thing as a perfect system, but these speakers now sound a LOT nicer than before this mod. I can actually now say that I THINK I'm happy with my sound in the TLS. It's up to what it should have been from the start.

For those who really want exaggerated and competition bass, or for those who really want 120db spl of audiophile quality sound, then they will have to pay the $3,000 for that kind of an upgrade. I respect those who have gone on to do that, but my goal was to come up with an easy, economical and uninvasive upgrade that one could be content with. I believe I have now succeeded!

ONE MORE IMPORTANT TIP WHILE YOU ARE DOING THE SPEAKER MODS... Be sure to put a small piece of paper or something underneath the speaker's terminal strip while you are doing all of the soldering. YOU DON'T WANT A SPLASH OF SOLDER TO FALL DOWN AND BURN A HOLE IN THE CONE OF THE SPEAKER!!!!!

Just for the record, while I have confidence in this mod, I can't be held responsible for anyone who makes a mistake during the process and/or ends up with any kind of system damage during or after the mod. SO BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!

heyrandy, I'LL BE WAITING FOR THE GOOD REPORTS TO START TRICKLING IN... Thanks to Cheaha, there is apparantely a lost source of these discontinued speakers. So get em while you still can... I'm going to order a back up pair just so I'll have a set in case I ever blow one somehow...

I've got the door panel removal routine down to ten minutes now. It's fairly simple after the first time. (another tip) Just put some tape on the sail panel and door jam, so you don't scratch them up while pulling the panel on and off of the top of the window.

Southbound

randomwalk101

SouthBound, thanks for the tips. One question though, do you recommend us to have the 4.7 MF/35 volts (or higher) non-polarized cap on ALL speakers or just the front ones?

Prairie Dawg

SB, thanks again for all of the great info. Couple ?'s though... Is this new mod in addition to the old resistor-cap terminator mod or does it replace it? Do we need to do both mods to get this sound or can we forget about the old terminator mod and just do this new fix? Hope these ?'s make sense. Also, I have purchased the Ex 365's instead of the DX6's cause I prefer to buy local than over the internet. I have not done the install yet. Do you feel that this would need to be done on the these speakers as well.
Thanks again for all of your info!!!!

Southbound

I know that I write so much stuff that it's hard to take it all in. I need to stop doing that. I do it so that there will be no questions, but yet there always are... so here goes...

1. THE TERMINATOR MOD SHOULD BE PUT ACROSS EVERY SPEAKER THAT YOU OWN! This includes your home stereo as well as your car. This mod is completely separate from the tweeter rolloff mod. The TERMINATOR MOD does not directly affect the frequency response of the speaker, rather it improves the overall clarity of the signal that reaches the speaker. Without going into all of the theory AGAIN, just know that its purpose is to help negate certain amplifier and speaker line instability artifacts that develop in the transfer of audio signals from an amplifier to a speaker load. By installing the terminator mod, you are assured that the original signal is fed to the speaker in its purest form. In other words, the speaker and speaker line look transparent to the amplifer. So what the amplifer sends is what the speaker truly receives. This mod will provide a subtle overall improvement to the audio clarity. The amount of improvement will depend upon the individual system... However, one person on this forum installed the TERMINATOR MOD and said his girlfriend came out and rode in the car and asked him if he had added some new speakers! He told her about the simple mod and she then wanted him to do it to her car! Other people have reported nice improvements, and others have noticed only slight improvements. But no matter what, it CAN'T HURT anything to know that you have the speaker set up for optimum delivery of a signal. It's easy to do as long as you have soldering experience. DEFINITELY INSTALL IT ON THE EX365 SPEAKERS AND ON ANY OTHER SPEAKERS THAT YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE HAVE IN ANY OTHER INSTALLATION. This mod is made for EVERY speaker out there...

2. THE TWEETER ROLLOFF MOD IS IN ADDITION TO THE TERMINATOR MOD, and is an individual choice. If you find, like many of us, that the POLK DX6 speakers sound too bright... Start out with PART 1 of my tweeter mod instructions. Install 3.9ohm/5watt resistors in series with the tweeter on ALL POLK DX6 speakers that you have installed. Give that a listen, and determine if things now sound SWEET for you? Everyone will probably have a different sweet spot. But the goal is to try and make the new speakers sound to your liking with the bass and treble controls centered. Of course you will need to do slight bass and treble control adjustments depending on what CD you happen to be listening to, etc. IF after installing the tweeter resistors, things still sound too bright for your liking... add the PART 2 of the mod by installing 4.7uF/35volt (or higher voltage) NON-POLARIZED electrolytic caps to the FRONT DOOR SPEAKERS. Install these caps from the tweeter side of the 3.9ohm resistor to the negative terminal of the speaker. This will create an additional rolloff at very high frequencies starting at around 10Khz. These mods will help to counteract the BOSE EQ that is boosting these frequencies way out of control.

I found it to my liking to add the rolloff cap to ONLY THE FRONT DOORS. BUT that's me... If you find things are still too bright, add the cap to the rear speakers as well. Also you could choose any value of NON-POLARIZED cap between 4.7uF and 10uF and get more and more of a rolloff with the higher the value of cap you use. HOWEVER, in my experience, I found the 10uF cap to roll things off too much. and I found that leaving the rear speakers without any rolloff cap, seemed to balance things out just right for me. I fooled around with MANY combinations, but 3.9ohm/5watt resistors in series with the tweeter on ALL FOUR SPEAKERS, and then the additional 4.7uF NON-POLARIZED cap on JUST THE FRONT SPEAKERS... played "BINGO" to me. The sweet spot was just right. The rears have just a tad bit more highs, but they are blocked by the back of the seats, so when they collide with the front speakers the overall response seemed to add together just right. But feel free to try out your own trial and error testing. JUST BE SURE TO START OUT WITH THE 3.9OHM resistors all the way around first. This then makes the speaker safe to start adding caps. By adding the resistors in series with the tweeters, the overall speaker impedance is raised a bit. This should help the stock head unit to run a bit cooler than it did before the mod, and that in itself is a good thing also.

3. As for whether or not the POLK EX365 speakers require the tweeter mod... I can't tell you that... I haven't heard them, and I don't have your ears. I would install them first without the mod and see how they sound to you. Then go from there... I don't know if the tweeter wires are even accessable on the back of this speaker??? Some coaxials have the crossover cap and tweeter wires built internal to the speaker assembly itself. If this is the case, you will not be able to implement the tweeter mod on this speaker. Again, this is why I chose the DX6 speaker, because it has the tweeter wires and crossover cap conveniently mounted on a terminal strip on the back of the speaker. I knew when I bought them, that I could easily cut down the tweeter or even change the crossover frequency if I felt so inclined to do so. (and now I have....) IN ANY CASE, INSTALL THE TERMINATOR MOD ACROSS THE EX365 SPEAKERS AND MOUNT THEM ON A SHEET OF DYNAMAT!!! You may be really pleased with the sound at that point. They have a smaller tweeter than the DX6, so they might not be as bright??? The one thing that is better with the EX365 speaker over the DX6 speaker, is that it has 3db better efficiency. That will give you a little better overall volume.

Before you install them, you might want to look at the back of them to see if you can find the tweeter wires and an easy way to install the series resistor. Hopefully they provide you with a way to do that.... Try things out with them on dynamat with the TERMINATOR MOD and see how they sound. You may be cool with them at that point... IF not, proceed to add the tweeter mods on them the same way as on the DX6 speaker. If that's not possible because the tweeter wires are hidden, then you are stuck at that point. In which case you will have to decide if you can live with the sound, or buy some DX6s while you still can.

HOPE THIS LONG POST HAS ANSWERED YOUR REMAINING QUESTONS...

ONE LAST REMINDER... REMEMBER TO PUT SOME SORT OF PAPER OR OTHER MATERIAL UNDERNEATH THE SPEAKER WIRING TERMINALS BEFORE DOING ANY OF THE SOLDERING WORK. THIS WAY IF ANY SOLDER SPLASHES DOWN, IT WILL BE CAUGHT ON THE PAPER AND NOT BURN A HOLE IN THE CONE OF THE SPEAKER.... THAT MISTAKE WOULD CERTAINLY RUIN YOUR DAY!!!

ALSO REMEMBER THAT THE TWEETER ROLLOFF MOD IS ONLY FOR SPEAKERS THAT ARE USING THE STOCK HEAD UNIT TO DRIVE THEM WITH THE EQ STILL IN CIRCUIT!

heyrandy... I think you will find the same "BINGO" point that I did. They sounded damn nice with all of the door panels off! Unfortunately, the door panels drop the level down by around 3db and also muffle the highs a bit while making the sound appear a bit hollow at the same time
But they are a LOT better now. My upper volume limit used to be set by the point where the high frequency sibilance became too overwhelming... NOW, the higher I turn things up, the midrange increases at a rate greater than the very high sibilant frequencies, and therefore the lacking midrange comes back to life. They still aren't perfect... but they are getting about as good as you could expect a speaker to sound with this stock head unit and the bogus EQ circuit.

GO FOR IT... I THINK YOU'LL BE GLAD YOU DID! P.S. where do you buy your amsoil 5-w-20? and while roadrage has posted some very informative oil topics... what is your opinion about running MOBIL 1 SUPERSYN 5-W-30 out here in California??? Is the 5-W-20 just good to provide better gas mileage or does it actually protect the engine better over the long haul? I can live with the slight gas mileage loss, but I want to protect the engine the best that I can over the long run... Thanks for your expertise in this area as well!

GOOD LUCK EVERYBODY!
Southbound

heyrandy

SB -

I just got back from being out of town again (at the end of July it will be 6 weeks in a row). Good thing that 2 are vacation with the family.

I am getting ready to redo my fronts with the 2 resistors and 2 caps (3.9 ohm/4.7uF) and dynamat. I'll keep everyone posted on the results. My backs are still bone stock.

Then I'll do the backs probably without the cap like you did. I understand your thinking. Today, driving back from the airport, the brightness was killing me on a particular CD (Dylan's 30th Anniversary Concert). A great show. Neil Young is especially good.

I bought my 4.7 uF caps at CrapShack today. The only non-polarized ones at the local store were axial.

WARNING: MY RADIO SHACK ONLY CARRIES 1 TYPE OF NON-POLARIZED 4.7uF ELECTROLYTIC CAPS. THEY ARE AXIAL (leads coming out each end) AND 50V: RS #272-998

THE 35V RADIAL ARE POLARIZED (at least at my store)





SB -

I really don't know if 5W20 is any better or worse than 0W30 or 5W30 in our particular engines. But it the trend is that automakers keep recommending thinner oils. I asked my dealer about it and he said to definitely use 5W20. He said that the Acura corporate tech guys were just in with strict orders to use nothing else.


I use Amsoil 100:1 synthetic 2-stroke oil in all of my weed whackers, chain saws, etc. after they are broke-in with conventional Homelite oil. I'm into RC airplanes and all of the engine gurus that rebuild the gasser engines for planes rave about Amsoil (because they see very little wear (at 100:1) compared to conventionals or other synthetics such as Klotz). Then I read an article in an RC mag where this RC Hall of Famer switched to Amsoil on his gassers and measured significantly lower engine temps (less friction) with this oil.

I know that Mobil 1 is (or was) a great oil but I've heard nasty rumors that they are getting away from building it up from ethylene (poly-alpha-olefins) and instead simply using the hydrocracking process that Castrol uses (much cheaper).

Anyway, Amsoil is a good product (lots of truckers use it for 50,000+ miles with Amsoil's oil testing service). Therefore, I'm not worried about it breaking down in 6 months and I'll save a little gas at the same time.

It's about $5/quart at a distributor (a guys house) near where I work. Check out www.amsoil.com

I will use their #20 filter as well since they are supposed to be very good. Otherwise, I would use the Mobil 1 #105 (oversized) filter.

I just read an article about how the major CA pipelines recently changed their premium spec to 91 octane. That explains alot. Refiners wouldn't want to make 92 and only get paid for 91.

Southbound

heyrandy,
Thanks for the great oil advice. I'll have to locate some 5-W-20. The techs at my dealer also said that they were handed down a service bulletin by Acura to use nothing else. I asked them if I could read the bulletin? Of course the tech couldn't locate it... I asked him if the reasoning was for engine protection or engine performance? He said that they were required to use it in order to maintain the performance specs... He said that they had to put it in by the quart because they didn't have any big drums of it yet. I looked at the bottles. It had a HONDA MOTOR OIL label on it, but said in small print that it was made by MOBIL OIL CORP acccording to HONDA specs. However, It appears to only be conventional oil... It sold for about $2.75/quart at the dealer. Again, I just feel better about synthetic oil over conventional oil... so I'll try to locate some amsoil or redline oil by the caseload.

Back to the speakers... I think these mods will make you a lot happier. I could live with the brightness when I had only replaced the fronts. I even debated for a long time as to whether or not to replace the rears. Then I finally did it to see how things sounded. AGAIN, I was amazed at what a POS the BOSE speakers are. Replacing the rears brought about a much greater clarity in all areas. The bass was a lot tighter and the highs were crisper. HOWEVER, at this point the overall brightness really got to me as well. Most people could probably be happy without the tweeter mod if they have only replaced two speakers, but after replacing all four, the need for the mod becomes very obvious...

I think you'll be much happier with your system after replacing all four speakers and adding the Terminator and tweeter mod along with dynamat. It's a pretty substantial upgrade. You can tweak the mod to your liking. As you've stated, add the 3.9ohm resistor to all four speakers and see how that sounds... then add the 4.7uF cap to the fronts and see how that sounds. I think you'll be happy at that point. If not, you can add a bigger cap like 6.8uF up to 10uF... You can also add a cap to the rear speakers as well. Remember that the sound will become somewhat more muffled and toned down once you put the door panels back on. Hang a red shop rag in front of them and drive around with the door panels off. This is approximately the affect the the door panel and grill cloth will have on the sound. THINGS SOUNDED REALLY SHARP AND CRISP WITH THE MODS AND THE DOOR PANELS OFF, WITH THE SPEAKERS OUT IN THE OPEN...(no rag draped in front of them) Too bad we couldn't keep it that way. You will find that as you drive around without the door panels, that the left front door will buzzzzzzz with the bass notes. It's the white plastic door frame covering vibrating underneath the seat memory module. Shove a sock underneath it to quiet it down. I ended up stuffing some foam underneath the module and left it there even after I re-installed the door panels. I found that my original thinking of using a 10uF cap was defnitely too much rolloff, but you may feel different. Once you have a near 4ohm resister between the amp and tweeter, you can safely add any value of cap that sounds right to you. Just give your ears a chance to adjust in between changes. THE RADIO SCHLOCK 4.7uF/50 volt cap should work just fine! I checked it out at the store this weekend as well, just so I could report here that they carried it. The leads appeared long enough to reach back and attach to the required tereminal posts, etc. JUST BE SURE TO ADD SLEEVING TO ALL OF THE COMPONENT LEADS! For those not sure how to do this, just strip some insulation off of some of the extra POLK speaker wire and shove it over the leads of the components.

heyrandy, I know that I don't have to go into this much detail for your sake, but I'm doing it for the sake of others who may read this and want to perform the mod(s). I have learned on this forum that you CAN'T take anything for granted. No matter how much information you give out, people will still have additional questions....

Just like how I keep asking you about gas and oil... Would you use the HONDA conventional 5-W-20 oil or MOBIL 1 SUPER SYN SYNTHETIC 5-W-30 oil, if you couldn't locate any of the amsoil or redline oil? In that case it's a decision between viscosity vs. synthethic quality... which wins out?

Thanks!
Southbound

heyrandy

I added Ford's version of dynamat and the 2 cap/2 resistor mods to the fronts. What an improvement! No piercing highs anymore. I find that my wife even leaves it louder now after she has driven it.

I will hopefully get to the backs next weekend (1 cap/2 resistors).

Thanks SB!


SB -

I changed my oil today for the first time. Used Amsoil 5W20 and their #20 filter. Cost $39.95 after tax for the filter and 5 quarts. Jack up the right front, remove wheel, and access is very good. The old filter was on a little too tight though - I needed to use a filter wrench . I probably won't change it again until the first week of January.

I would use a synthetic that is not 5W20 (ie, 0W30 or 5W30) over a conventional 5W20 any day. I think that 5W20 is on the thin side for conventional and any degradation could affect long-term engine life. This will be even more true as our cars get older and the cooling system doesn't work quite as well, etc.

Today my outside temp gauge read 99 F but my engine temp always stays a couple of clicks below halfway so I don't think the oil is really roasting. But I feel better that I have synthetic in it now.

Why does Acura recommend 5W20? I have no idea. I really can't believe that it has much to do with the EPA fuel efficiency ratings. Didn't our engines have the same ratings when they came with 5W30? Any why would THEY care what kind of MPG we get after our first oil change? Do they really want our engines to wear out quickly so we'll run out and buy new Acuras? That doesn't make sense either.

I guess that I have to believe that Acura's engine engineers know more about what's best for our cars than some of the guys here who think 5W20 is a crime. And since I agree that 5W20 has wimpier specs than comparable thicker oils, a synthetic feels better to me.

Southbound

heyrandy,
Glad to hear that you were able to pull off the mods on the front POLKS and found them to be worthwhile. I can tell you that some of your improvement is coming from BOTH mods. The tweeter resistor and rolloff cap obviously affect the frequency response. But the terminator mod smooths the raspy edges off of everything just enough to allow you to turn it up louder before it becomes annoying. I think you'll be very satisfied with the overall system upgrade after you get the rears replaced as well. The bass will be much cleaner, the highs will be crisper, and now we have a way of making them not PIERCE our ears. Be sure to put the terminator mod in and then I think you'll be happy by just adding the 3.9ohm resistor without the additional rolloff cap for the rears. Like I say, the highs from the rear don't make it up to your ears like the fronts did. But, you're free to add the rolloff cap if you still feel it's warranted. I don't know if you noticed the sound difference with the door panels back on vs. the speakers out in the open. But I found the door panels to probably knock the overall volume down by about 3db....bummer! We don't have a lot of gain to spare... That is why I found the EQ bypass mod not to be as well suited, in our case, as this mod is. The tweeter mod knocks the highs down, which also knocks the overall volume down a bit. So the net result is that you will find yourself turning the volume up a bit louder to compensate for the overall drop due to the lesser tweeter output. However, You will now be able to comfortably turn things up louder now, without cringing, because of the terminator mod's improvement on clarity combined with the cut down of the tweeters brightness. Another net result to turning things up louder now, is that you'll find that the midrange increases at a rate faster than the extreme highs.... thus giving you more overall midrange presense. The ratio of the midrange to highs has now been put back closer to the proper balance that we've been looking for. I even find myself clicking the treble up a notch or two now and then. Depending on most recordings, I'm finding that I'm leaving the bass up one click and the treble up one click. This adds to the overall volume and depth just a bit. Anyway, I'm happy with the compromise... I think it's the best that we can hope for, by spending around $200 and leaving the factory electronics stock, and not adding any additional amplification. I was a bit concerned about warranty issues with the stock head unit if I performed the EQ bypass permanently. I only say that because of the number of complaints on the disc changer jamming. If that happens comsistently with me, or breaks all together, I wouldn't want to take my car in and have them see a bunch of wiring splices behind the head unit. I think I've put things back to stock and covered it well enough with electrical tape, such that they would never notice that I had been there before. It would be worth the warranty risk for those like Iggy who have added an additional amp to upgrade their system up into another league. But unless you're going to do that, I'd advise leaving the EQ in circuit, and deal with the highs in this manner. One good thing about the stock headunit and EQ is that it does employ a compressor/limiter/soft clipper circuit. You will notice that even when you turn things ALL the way up to max, there is no gross distortion. The stock system, does prevent raw clipping and does not send the associated square waves to the speakers. You can tell when you hit the power supply rails and the sound begins to deteriorate, but it's a lot better than gross distortion caused by clipped signals that REALLY can cause harm to speakers.... How much of the Ford dynamat did you add? I think that helps to solidify the bass as well. Glad to hear your wife is cranking it up a bit more now also

I'm glad to hear your definitive answer regarding conventional oil vs synthetic. This is because I already did my first oil change a few weeks ago at 3,750 miles. I put in the new MOBIL 1 "SuperSYN" 5-W-30. I read a lot about it on their website and decided that that weight just couldn't hurt anything during the summer. I drive from L.A. to Vegas in 120 degree heat during the summer and 5-W-20 just sounds too lightweight for me, especially when it's only conventional oil. I guess I'm old fashioned, because I'm used to using 20-W-50 in my old Camaro. I put the 5-W-30 synthetic into my Camry as well. I'll probably try to locate some of the amsoil or redline 5-W-20 for the next time around. But I've heard some rumours of MOBIL 1 making the 5-W-20 grade. Somebody is going to have to come up with it for our cars... I wonder what viscosity the other newer cars are now specifing? I believe a market for that weight should be forthcoming... I bought one of those oil filter end cap adapters that you attach to a 3/8 inch drive socket wrench to change my oil filter. Yes, it was tight... so was the drain plug! I drive mine up on ramps and then there is plenty of room to do the work as well. The dealer told me to go to Pep Boys and buy the correct size end wrench. They didn't stock one??? I bought my Camry oil filter end cap adapter from the dealer... Acura could still provide a few better things to us do it yourselfers. Anyway, the Pep Boys end cap wrench adapters for the Acura filter, was conveniently marked with the "H" size... I think of it as H for Honda. However, your amsoil filters may be a different size than the stock Honda filter that I bought from the dealer. I'm sure I don't need to give you tips on how to change oil... sorry about that...

Thanks for the reports and for your help! Keep em coming.

SB

heyrandy

I would feel good about using the oil you are using at the temp range that you see. It's not like you are living in North Dakota. You don't see the ice and snow like I may get before my next oil change.

I would look at the Mobil 1 #105 oil filter for your next change. It has lots more surface area than the Honda one and probably only a couple of $ more. The Amsoil #20 is supposed to be good too but the oversized Mobil 1 (#105) is what I'm leaning toward for my next change.

That's a good idea to use the ramps. I have some but didn't think to use them. I'll be sure to try them next time.

heyrandy

SB -

I stand corrected!!!

Acura may only be recommending 5W-20 for fuel conservation reasons (ie, to maintain the reported EPA gas mileage estimates on the sticker). See the following memo from the EPA that Road Rage pointed out on the "TL Type S" forum thread entitled "Mobil 1 0w-30".

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/ccd0112.pdf

It basically says that Acura has to prove that it's owners are using 5W-20 in the TL in order for the EPA to test the mileage with 5W-20.

Therefore, unwitting TL owners are falling under the draconian rules of the EPA and not given enough info to make an educated decision all in order for Acura to maintain the highest mileage in class.

I guess that we all need to decide if a few (?) percent better mileage is worth a little less engine oil protection.

Shame shame on Acura and the EPA.

I will likely use 5W-30 or 0W-30 in the future.

randomwalk101

After several hours of sweating and getting my hands cut/bleeded, the four Polk DX6 finally in with all resistor mods and dynamat as SB instructed. Wow, I love my TL stereo now...with the stock sub, it's perfect for my taste. THank you SB for all the great instructions.

Southbound

Randomwalk,
That's good news! If you've done all the resistor /cap mods... (tweeter rolloff mod with resistor/cap in front, tweeter cut mod with resistor only in the rear, and terminator mod on ALL speakers) along with the dynamat... You should be really digging it over the stock BLOWS speakers. Glad you were able to do everything from my instructions. Not sure where the blood came in... but no pain, no gain, I guess... You made about four levels of speaker upgrades in one swoop. I did each of the mods one at a time and found that each and every mod helped out something. To hear the total change all at once should be pretty substantial. I think it's the best we can do without going to the next level of replacing amplifiers. etc. Happy listening! You will be noticing things you hadn't heard before. You will also notice that some CDs are recorded MUCH better than others...

heyrandy...
Thanks for the update. I too read the memo from the EPA to Acura that Roadrage posted. THANKS ROADRAGE! I even printed it for my files. It's REAL obvious to me in the memo that the 5-W-20 was used for fuel economy and to provide better emissions. Yeah, it looks like Acura must actively promote the use of the 5-W-20 in order to assure that users actually continue to use it in order to comply with their posted mileage and emissions ratings. MARKETING! My gut told me this a long time ago... There were several debates about the lightweight oil months ago in which I kept stating the essence of this memo as my gut feeling. As far as I'm concerned now, those suspicians have just been confirmed. If you read item 3 of the document it states that 5-W-30 would provide a fuel economy improvement factor of 3.4% using some ASTM Sequence VI-B as a reference. This is compared to a 4.2% improvement when using 5-W-20. (I don't have a clue as to what the reference standard is, but the differences seem to speak for themselves) 4.2% vs. 3.4% equals .8% better fuel economy when using the 5-W-20 oil. Am I correct in stating that? If so, let's just take 25mpg as an average for mileage on the TLS. .8% of that would ONLY BE .2mpg!!! Am I correct in making these interpretations of the document data??? Or am I using "fuzzy math"? If these assumptions and interpolations can be made... it's a no brainer! The question now becomes... Is .2mpg worth the long term engine wear that might be incurred by using the lighter weight oil that has poorer shear wear and high temp breakdown specs.???? Not to speak of the hassle involved to obtain it! This is a VERY interesting document. Based upon my So. Cal location, I'll be sticking with the best 5-W-30 synthetic that I can buy at the local auto parts store. (MOBIL 1 SUPERSYN).

Any further comments to add? Am I thinking straight here? This is your area of expertise. Thanks as always for your insight!

Southbound

randomwalk101

SB,

Yes, I upgraded all four speakers at once along with all the mods...my setup is EXACTLY like yours One thing I didn't do is resolder/move the positive terminal in (i guess I was lazy)...and found out the hard way with one speaker that it shorted out (no sound)...I ended up wrapping bunch of electrical tapes around the whole resistor/terminals etc and it worked... whew!

As for the oil, I've always used Mobil1 Synthetic 5-30W on all my cars. Each bottle costs around $4.30 here in Houston, but Walmart has a big bottle (5 quarts) for around the same price as 4 individual bottles...ei, you get one free quart. Not much but you'll save in the long run.

heyrandy

SB -

Yeah, I thought the same thing about the <1% improvement in mileage. Probably one of those things where the 5W20 barely kicks it up to the next whole number.

I'm no expert on the oil side though. And I don't really know how bad 5W20 is for our cars. In other words, do we really put our oil to the test if our engines are well designed and run cool, etc. Do the high temp breakdown specs, etc mean much for everyday driving situations?

For instance, I was at an international fuels conference one time and had dinner with a renowned fuels and emissions expert from GM. For some reason we started talking about oil and I told him that I changed my (conventional) oil every 4,000 miles on my van. He then lectured me that I was just wasting money by changing it so frequently on a modern engine. Then I asked him how long he keeps his cars and he said 3 years.

If you only keep your car for 3 years you could probably get away with just topping it off as necessary and never changing it. Too bad for the next owner though. But I have gone over 180k on my last 2 cars.

heyrandy

SB -

I need some help!

You told me a while ago to get a .1 uF cap for my home sub (I have my sub amp in the rack and zip cord to the sub). When I went to get the cap, they only had red mylar ones rated at something like 600v. Do I want something different? Does NTE make it?

BTW, I'll be using it with a 2W - 100ohm resistor and am planning to use the same resistor type in my car sub (w/o cap).

jmai

How many ppl did Step 1 or....Step 1 and 2?

Southbound

heyrandy,
You could probably do just fine with the mylar cap, but I still think the Ceramic disc is better for this purpose. NTE does make a .1uF/1KV disc cap. They rate it as 100,000pF. If you bought any spares, you could also parallel two of the .05uF disc caps that you used on the door speakers. Put the two caps in parallel and they will equal .1uF and then put the resistor in series with them. Yes, the 2watt 100ohm version should be used in your home situation. You have been paying attention to my ramblings... the 100ohm/2watt resistor is fine to use WITHOUT a cap on the TLS STOCK SUBWOOFER.

If you ever add an extra sub amp, then I would put the .1uF back in series with the resistor. The logic between the use of a .05uf on the door speakers and .1uf for the subwoofer is that the amplifier begins to see the resistor at around 16Khz with the .05uF cap. Since the door speakers do receive full signals up to 20Khz, you dont want too much signal hitting the resistor too soon or it would either burn up or need to be a LOT bigger. However, since the frequencies feeding the subwoofer are usually under 1KHz, the .1uF cap puts the resistor into play at around 8Khz. Therefore, the resistor shouldn't even see any audio signal. It's just there to terminate the speaker line and stabilize the amplifier up at HIGH Frequencies. .1uF is about as big as ceramic disc caps are made. That's why I said to use it. I found in my TLS STOCK SUBWOOFER listening tests, that I thought the bass was smoother when the cap was removed. There's not enough power in the stock BOSE amp to even cause a 100ohm/1watt resistor to just barely get warm with the touch of your little finger. Therefore a 2watt should be just fine without any cap. For your home, you could buy more than one .1uF ceramic disc cap, and begin to parallel them, and see if you notice any improvement with bigger caps (lower freq interaction) A .2uF would make the 100ohm resistor start to be seen at around 4Khz, .4uF at 2Khz, .8uF at 1Khz, and so on. You could try a 2 watt resistor all by itself in your home setup and NOT crank it that loud. Do some tests with music that has strong bass and concentrate on the bass notes and see if you notice any difference between the resistor with or without a cap in series. You can keep checking to make sure you aren't driving things to the point of making the resistor hot. Then, if you find the sound is better with the straight resistor as opposed to a .05 or .1uF cap used in series, including the mylar one you have... I'd probably try to buy a hand full of .1uF caps and parallel like five of them. That's about as far as you can go and still protect the resistor from burning up. Hope I haven't confused you... The changes are very subtle, so I'm sure you'd just be fine to go back to the original plan of using a .1uF at home and the straight resistor in the STOCK TLS. But you do have some room for trial and error here. Do some in home listening and see if you even notice anything at all. You should, but it might not be enough to fret about the value of cap used.

After your comment, I went out and bought the Dylan 30th anniversary concert tonight. I think disc two has a lot of GREAT material. I went to a CSNY reunion concert back in April, and it was awesome. They may all be 50 something, but they hadn't lost any of their harmonies or energy. You are right, Neil Young still ROCKS! Even Crosby on liver #2 was belting out the tunes. The Dylan CD is definitely recorded VERY bright. I was listening to it in my Camry on the way home from work, and it was brighter than most in that car... I'm going out for a midnight drive around the block just to hear how it sounds in the TLS. Thanks for the recommendation... It's a good album! I'll give you an update as to how I think it sounds with the POLK mods. You'll be glad when you get the rears installed. They do take a lot of "MUD" out of the music.

SB

randomwalk101

Hey SB, I'm wondering if you have done any mod to the stock TL sub? Did you add your "terminator mod" to it or anything? What kind of mod are you currently have for your stock TLS stock SUBWOOFER (not the Polk dx6). What is the purpose of adding the 2W 100 ohm resistor to the stock sub? thx again SB.

eCo

I had to dig up the posts for all these parts, so thought I'd put them in one convenient post.

These parts are what you need for the "Polk DX-6 fix" and the terminator mods for regular speakers and TLS sub.

All parts are from Electronics Plus.

2 Watt 100 ohm Resistor (for sub)

63v 4.7 mf NON-POLARIZED electrolytic cap (note part is designated as "mF", but I confirmed it as uF)

5 Watt 3.9 ohm Resistor

1 Watt 100 ohm Resistor

50,000 pf 1Kv Ceramic Disk Cap

Enjoy!

Southbound

Thanks eCo, for helping me out on this one.

YES, eCo has outlined all the parts needed for the mods that I have recommended in my posts. I have outlined every aspect of every mod SEVERAL times. So for those who are new to the scene, do some searches on "blackum box" and "terminator mod" and "DX-6" I'm sure you'll come back with a ton of posts that will fill you in on my logic for my mods.

I'm too beat after a hard week of work to talk about the "theory" of the terminator mod AGAIN. I'm sure you'll find more than you want to know OR read after doing a search. Or maybe a few people who have done the terminator mod and have found it to help could tell you what's going on. They can at least tell you to "trust me", "IT WORKS!"

"Can I get an Amen?" "Can I get a testimonial" LOL... anybody?

Thanks and good luck! Southbound

Iggy

Amen brother. May the Lord have mercy on those that don't use the allmighty SEARCH!

Iggy

eCo

I should have added that I ordered twice as many of the above parts as I expected to need, and the total came to $22 including shipping. Not bad at all.

eCo

randomwalk101

SB, I guess you didn't do any mod to your stock TLS subwoofer? I was so satisfied with my current setup until I visited a friend with a CL with aftermarket stereo system...his bass so "warm" sounding....I need more bass!!!

Southbound

randomwalk,
The only mod that I have done to my stock TLS subwoofer was to add my termintor mod across the actual subwoofer speaker. It doesn't add anymore bass, but it does smooth it out slightly. It's easy enough to do. Just lie on your back in the trunk and you can see the subwoofer terminals. solder a 100ohm/2watt resistor across the terminals. If you end up putting in a bigger amp, then I WOULD PUT A .1uF CAP IN SERIES WITH THE RESISTOR SO IT DOESN'T BURN UP WITH THE EXTRA POWER!

ALSO WEAR SOME GOGGLES WHEN YOU SOLDER ABOVE YOUR FACE!!!!!

The upgrade obsession is never satisfied I hear you when you say you want more bass. I'm actually fine with my bass for the music that I listen to, but I NEED MORE VOLUME... The only way to be completely happy is to gut the entire system and start over from scratch... And the BOSE system doesn't make that easy to do... After several thousands of dollars and a lot of hassle, you might finally be content. I applaud those who have gone on to do this, but so far I have resisted the urge to go beyond the speaker upgrades.

More POWER to ya... (pun intended)

Good luck! Southbound

randomwalk101

Thanks SB, I'll go ahead and try that terminator mod to the stock sub. In the mean time, I'll leave the current setup as is, stop visiting those with aftermarket stereo systems and sign up for a rehab. session (CMA: car-mod anonymous?)

randomwalk101

SB, i went out today to get that 2watts @ 100 ohm resistor..it was out. The closest they have is 1 watt @ 51 ohm. I guess I can get two of these and put them in series with each other to make 2 watts @ 102 ohm (urgh, is my electronic skill is right?). Will this work?

Also, I htink it's easier to take the sub out and solder it in instead of doing it from the bottom. Just pull the sub cover off, remove the screws holding it down then pull it out, flip it over and solder...It only takes about a minute to pull it out.

TLluver

I am selling a pair of Polk DX-6, like new only been installed for 2 months, already pre-wired, just plug and play $90 shipped...getting out of my TL and must sell...e-mail me at esstlh@netscape.net or PM me if your interested...thanks

Southbound

randomwalk,
Yeah, any combination like that will work. You could also put two 200ohm resistors in parallel and come up with 100ohms at twice the wattage. In my actual install, I had a bunch of 100ohm/1watt resistors left over from my other terminator mods. I wasn't comfortable with only using a one watt resistor WITHOUT a cap, so I soldered two sets of two in parallel to give me two 50ohm pairs, then I soldered the two pairs in series to give me my final 100ohms at 4WATTS. I'm real comfortable, that that combination won't get hot. Anything that you can come up with to make 100ohms at 2 watts or better should be just fine. Just don't use a wirewound 5watt power resistor. (like the 3.9ohm ones you used in the tweeter mod) These type of resistors become inductive up at real high frequencies and therefore defeat the effectiveness of the mod. Don't expect a GIANT miracle from this mod. but you should notice a bit of smoother bass. You can try it by getting in the trunk and hanging a couple of clip leads from the subwoofer terminals. Then you clip a resistor between them, and listen with and without the mod. Make sure you close the trunk and keep the volume at the same level between tests. Listen to something with some fairly heavy bass and fade the controls to the rear so that you can hear the subwoofer more prevalent. Listen to a particular passage of a song, and then jump out and remove or add the resistor back and forth enough times to prove to yourself that the bass does indeed sound a bit smoother. Then you can permanently install it any way that works best for you. I've soldered so much stuff in my life, that I'm used do doing things on my head, but if you can easily remove the subwoofer... do it that way. During my tests, I drove around for an hour with the system totally cranked and a 1 watt resistor hanging from the clip leads. (make sure the clip leads never short out to each other during tests, or there could be smoke!) After an hour, it just barely became warm... so the 2 watt version should be adequate. BUT AGAIN, if you ever upgrade to another subwoofer with a powerful aftermarket amp... put a .1uF cap in series with the resistor so that it won't cook. You biggest enemy will be friends with SUPERSYSTEMS... More power would be nice, but it's a lot of work and money or else a lot more money and a LOT of faith in some installer that doesn't understand the BOSE system and also doesn't take as much care not to scratch your car or puncture your leather Good luck with whatever final configuration you decide to end up with. The POLKS should take the power of a decent aftermarket amp... but if you jump to a REALLY powerful amp, then you need to upgrade to even better speakers, etc. The game never ends... Time will tell where we all find our own personal happy zone.

TLluver... Long time, no speak... Sorry to hear that you must part with your TL. I hope things are OK with you otherwise. For those interested, his DX-6 speakers truly are plug and play. I built an adapter cable that I sent him that plugs directly into the factor connector and then slips onto the new POLK DX-6 speaker. It keeps you from having to cut off the stock factory connector, which allows you to easily go back to the original BOSE speakers, if you ever get into a situation like he has and needs to go back. Just plug the adapter cable into the factory speaker connector, wrap it with electrical tape and you're good to go. TLluver, Hope this helps you with your situation. Again, sorry to hear about your loss.

Southbound

Southbound

randomwalk, or anybody else interested...

One quick tip on listening to the terminator across the stock subwoofer. As an initial test, use the clip leads for easy change out of the 100ohm resistor. Make sure that they can't short out to each other or to ground. Turn the system OFF when swapping the resistor in and out. During an initial test, you can use any wattage of a 100ohm resistor. A 1/2 watt would probably work for LOW LEVEL TESTING. It's easier to hear the difference in the bass from the subwoofer by fading the HU to the rear. The bass coming from the front door speakers won't be altered by this mod. They have already been smoothed out by their individual terminators.

Pick some music with a nice bass presence, and concentrate on the bass notes. DON'T TURN THE VOLUME UP ALL THE WAY... If the amplifier is going up into limiting or distortion, you won't really be able to hear the improvement. This won't fix clipped or rounded off signal peaks. So listen at a medium level and I think you'll hear a smoothness in the overall bass response. If not, well then, you haven't gone to much work for nothing. If you agree that things sound just a bit smoother, then do the permanent mod with the PROPER 2watt (or higher combination) 100ohm resistor(s).



Good luck!
Southbound

randomwalk101

Thanks SB...got it installed. I'm deaf..can't really tell the difference but it gotta be good ... Thx for your help.

heyrandy

Hey SB and others -

I finally got the back speakers in and have been listening to it between trips out of town. Everything sounds great (or at least a whole lot better than stock).

In summary:
Fronts: Polk DX6s with stock 4.7 uF crossover cap, 3.9 ohm resistor/4.7 uF rolloff cap, terminator mod and dynamat equivalent (12" x ~15").

Backs: Polk DX6s with stock 4.7 uF crossover cap, 3.9 ohm resistor (no rolloff cap), terminator mod and dynamat.

Everthing sounds pretty well balanced with most musical sources (+1 click bass and +1 click treble). It could use a better sub/amp but the bass is definitely better than before and of course the treble is much much better than what comes from a 6.5" paper cone.

I agree with SB's recommendation to not install a rolloff cap in the backs since you can't really hear XS brightness from the backs. Except for maybe that Dylan concert disc which is recorded way too bright anyway.

SB -

I had the VHS tape of that concert but can't seem to find it now. I should probably try to find it on DVD. Young really gets into it on stage. That bald-headed Irish b!tch (can't remember her name) made a total fool out of herself and didn't finish her song. Anyway, it's a good video as well.

I too saw CSNY this spring. My wife and I drove to St. Louis to see it. The show was over 3 hours but still didn't seem long enough! I think that Young probably has as much talent as the other 3 combined (not that they suck - just that Young rocks).

Anyway, off to Romania tomorrow - later.

heyrandy

SB -

I checked and the concert was only released on VHS and production has been discontinued. Sinead O'Connor was the aforementioned Irish performer. Isn't it funny that probably the crappiest performances on the CD are when Bob sings?

Southbound

heyrandy,
Glad to hear that you've finally replaced all four speakers. Glad to also hear that you tend to agree with the compromise. I find that I'm clicking the treble up 1 or 2 clicks now on some material, and the bass usually up 1 click. It's not as good as it could be with an aftermarket amp and the whole bypass routine, but it's certainly better, and at least listenable now.

I just got back from a weekend run from L.A. to Las Vegas. The TLS IS A DREAM! 113 degrees outside... the temp gauge never moved above where it rides around town at the beach. (a few clicks below center). The air conditioner kept me frozen out, and the passing power felt good enough to be dangerous. I can see that I'm going to have to invest in a radar detector. The EXTRA TLS horsepower is defnitely worth it. In my previous 190hp Camry, it was sufficient... but when you come up to that situation where there's a truck in the right lane, and a car that just can't quite pass it in the left lane, I used to have to back off and hang behind the slow car while he "walked" by the truck. NOW, I've got enough extra umph, to just punch it and "zip" around both. I was diggin' the tunes cranked up the entire way, and wasn't ready to pull off the interstate when I hit Vegas... Still in the middle of a concert! The new 2002 "Bad Company" reunion "Merchants of Cool" LIVE tour is a good album also. It'll get you 100 miles down the road...

For what it's worth... I've seen this same observation noted here before... I did the same run back in April, cruising between 80-90mph the entire way (except for the occasional slowdown to get around traffic bogs)I had the A/C on continuously during that trip as well. Back in April, I got 29mpg both directions. This trip I only got 27mpg both directions. I changed my oil to Mobil 1, 5-W-30 synthetic back in June. I'm wondering if the heavier oil does effect the mileage by a few mpgs? I can live with 27mpg while driving 80-90mph through 113 degree desert weather... but I may put some 5-W-20 back in when winter comes along to see what happens again...

Thanks for the Dylan video research. I was going to look for a DVD of the concert as well. That concert has been a REAL SURPRISE TREAT for me. I somehow never realized when it was first made. Disc one, I'm not so fond of, but DISC TWO ROCKS! It also brings back MANY memories! Young's version of "All Along the Watchtower" has to be the best version of that song that I haver ever heard. The "My Back Pages" multi-talent performances are OUTSTANDING! At least now, I won't waste my time searching for a DVD of the gig. I forgot about that sinead o'connor freak... Some music stands the test of time, and some is just for the moment. You won't be hearing her music being reveled 30 years from now... And neither will RAP music. Sorry if that offends any RAP listeners, but ROCK AND ROLL NEVER FORGETS! THANKS AGAIN! Have fun in Romania. I've been to Western Europe, but not to that region. I'll be looking forward to your return posts.

SB

randomwalk101

SB, what about if I upgrade the sub amp and with an aftermarket sub (250 watts @ 4ohm). Will this "terminator" mod be benefitial anymore? If so, what capacitor/resistor will I need? Also, if possible, what is the reason for this terminator mod? Thx

Southbound

The terminator mod on the subwoofer only makes a very subtle improvement on the smoothness of the bass response. Some can hear the difference, and some don't really hear enough to make it worthwhile. Since the subwoofer only receives signals below 400hz or so, put a .1uF/1kv ceramic cap in series with a 100ohm/2watt resistor, and you should be cool with ANY aftermarket sub amp.

The terminator mod is more beneficial to the door speakers where the higher frequencies are involved. In that case use a .05uF/1kv ceramic cap in series with at 100ohm/1watt resistor. Then solder this series network across the speaker terminals. Polarity does not matter here at all... I have discussed its theory and purpose until people have been blue in the face on previous posts. Do some searches on "terminator mod" or "blackum Box" or simply search all of my posts and you will have an engineering textbook to read about the subject from me. In short, the mod helps to stabilize the amplifier's output stage when it is driving an unpredictable load like a speaker. Amplifiers love to feed a resistive load, but when you give them an inductive load like a speaker, the impedance swings all over the place and the gain/phase angle of the output amp can become somewhat unstable. Also there are characteristics of speaker wire that tend to cause anomalies to the signal due to very high frequency effects. These effects are introduced most prominently with "zipcord" type speaker wire. So the terminator mod does two things...

1. It helps to stabilize the output stage of the amplifier when feeding a complex impedance, like a crossover network and a speaker.

2. It terminates the speaker wire into its characteristic impedance which prevents it from causing high frequency reflections to the signal.

The bottom line, is that in theory, you would like the speaker to receive the signal from the amplifier in its purest form. There should be no change in the signal from the driver stage to the speaker. In other words, the audio signal should be as transparent as possible from the amp input to the speaker itself. In practice, this seldom happens... There are factors introduced, as stated above, that cause degradation to the signal in various forms. The terminator mod helps to prevent these anomalies. With the mod, what the amp sees, the speaker receives... and the sound quality is JUST A LITTLE BIT CLEANER. Details are defintely sharper, and vocals, etc. are definitely smoother. You will find that after the mod, you can turn things up louder before they begin to sound harsh. The BLARE that was there without the mod, will be reduced with the mod.

As I said, if you want to know more, read my zillion previous posts on the subject. Several people on this board have tried the mod... several have reported back that it does make a big obvious difference. Others report that it makes a minor difference. I can hear the difference blindfolded, but I've been working with the theory for years and know what to listen for.

IN ANY CASE, it can't hurt anything to try it. It can't cause any damage to anything, and either you will enjoy the improvement, or you will not notice an improvement. It depends upon how long your speaker wire runs are, and what amp you have, and how critical your ears are... You've only got a few bucks in components to lose by trying it. At least you know that you've done your best to provide the best signal possible to your speakers, even if its a placebo effect...

Hope this helps...
Southbound

heyrandy

Hey SB -

Romania was pretty cool. Beer there is great, comes in big half liter bottles and is very cheap. Great fresh tomatoes and other veggies, etc. No guns and very little crime. But pretty 3rd world still. Next time I'll try to get to Vlad the Impaler's castle (Dracula) in Transylvania.

Yeah, I like my stereo. I would like to find someone who has a bone stock system, make a duplicate CD and sound test them.

I feel like I owe you a bunch for all of your research and trouble. If you email me your address (work, home, whatever), I'll send you a set of CDs from one of my favorite concerts.

email to: kc_flyerno_spam@hotmail.com (just delete the "no_spam" first)

Southbound

heyrandy,
Welcome back!

Yeah, Europe is a very cool place to tour. I had my third vacation trip planned last September. Three weeks, into Paris, over to Germany down the romantic road to Munich in time for the opening day of Octoberfest, on down into Austria, through Switzerland, ending up down at the French Riviera and flying home from there. Unfortunately, we were set to leave September 14th. The tragedy of September 11th, cancelled our flights and plans... I'm still messed up over both events. I toured the castles on the Rhine last trip and went on up to Amsterdam and Copenhagen where my heritage lies. Glad you enjoyed your trip. I haven't made it further east than Germany for fear of the third world shock...

You DON'T owe me a thing. The thanks online have been more than enough. But, I can't pass up a good concert CD nonetheless. It sounds like we both have some overlapping tastes. I will be on vacation next week. Going up to the Canadian Rockes... When I get back to work, I'll email you from there and we can talk more. I grew up in Kansas, so I know the KC area fairly well, even though I haven't been back there for like 20 years. Thanks for the offer!

As far as the stereo goes... It's easy to get used to what you have, no matter how good it is, and to ALWAYS want MORE... However, I think we have improved quite a bit from the "BONE STOCK" system for only a few hundred dollars. Here's a plan... GO TO A DEALER WITH A CD... TELL THEM THAT YOU WANT TO CHECK OUT A TLS, AND THAT YOU WERE CURIOUS ABOUT THE SOUND SYSTEM. (The sharks owe you that much) I actually did that when I was shopping... Sadly, I knew right away that I was going to have to do something. The stereo really does mean a lot to me. I seriously reconsidered buying the car due to its cheap sounding system. I was VERY disappointed at the lot, as I was expecting the BOSE system to actually impress me... I get most of my stress relief by driving around with the stereo cranked and nobody to tell me to turn it down! It's hard to do that at home... and there's something about the road and good cranking classic rock to get one's blood pumping. Especially in a car that is as fun to drive as the TLS!

Thanks again for the offer! I'm interested in what you consider one of your favorite concerts? If you burn the copy, I guess you need to remember NOT to put a label on it, as they tend to stick in the stupid changer. Thanks a lot!!!

SB

randomwalk101

SB,
Do you know where I can find that particular non-polarized ceramic capacitor (.1MF/ 1kV) that you recommend? I usually get all my parts from Electronic Parts Outlet (EPO). That store carries a huge selection of electrical stuffs..but not this particular part. I tried to search that site, www.nteinc.com or whatever but couldn't find it either. Thx SB.

randomwalk101

SB, I've search several electronic stores and I'm pretty sure now that .1MF/1kV does NOT exist.

The closest I've found is .1MF/630v. Can I put two of the .05MF/1kV in parallel for the terminator mod? Thx.