DerrickM

Well, for the third or fourth time I'm nearly finished, but my speakers sound like crap at high volume.

I need to get some high-end speakers, but I'm worried about mounting depth. The JBL's I have now barely fit with 3/4" spacers and they're only 2 1/8" deep. Any quality speakers I can find seem to be 2 1/2 to 3 inches deep.

I'm looking for personal experiences mounting deeper speakers up front on a second gen TL.

The system as it stands currently: Sony CDX-C90, XDP-210EQ, MTX 560 amp, RF 2002 amp & 12" RF sub. Mains are JBL P652, and they do not sound very good.

Thanks everybody.

ou sig

Focal by far. They are kinda hard to find, but they make some of the best speakers (car and home) money can buy. And even better, they make a "slim" series that fit in our doors without even making a spacer. I have 100 watts RMS to all 4 of mine, and the sound level rivals my home system of Klipsch KLF20's (my dream speakers!) with 200 watts RMS to each.

Read up on them if you dont believe me. The guys that did my install were so impressed with the sound that they are going to drop MB Quart if they can be able to carry Focal. If you have any more questions PM me.

oh one more thing, dont go low on the power to your door speakers. people think that if they dont want to listen to it "loud" then a small amp is fine. Well, thats not always the case. The more power you give a speaker, the less chance of the amp ever clipping when you listen to it. This will ensure that your amp is working easier and providing your speakers with a much more even dose of power and quality sound. My speakers love 100 watts/ and most people have less than half that.

DerrickM

Hi,

I've got plenty of power--the amp is 70x4 rms, double that available. (MTX is pretty conservative when it comes to specs).

I've been looking at CDT and Diamond Audio. The Diamond's look like they're about 2 1/2" inches deep, which would be perfect.

So, your Focals are only 1 3/8" deep??? I have 3/4" spacers, and 2.125 barely fit...

Right now I'm tearing apart the factory grilles. I discovered the grilles are so thick that the holes make the higher frequencies extremely directional.

To be fair to JBL, the P652's sound pretty good (with the door covers removed), but I'm looking for something much more natural sounding.

I'll go see if I can find some data on Focal speakers.

ou sig

Ya the slim series is less than 2 inches deep. The regular line is very deep though. Do you have a CarToys in your area? If so they have the Focal line. You can go to their website if you want to check out some prices and such. I know there are many other brands out their, Diamond and MB Quart or even Boston that are very nice, but I know that every person that has heard my system has been very impressed and extra impressed with the door speakers.

I would also recommend components if you want a better sound.

DerrickM

Yeah, components up front is what I'm planning. I think I'll either stick with coaxials in back, or maybe mount the tweeters where the stock sub is pointing at the rear glass. (My last car had tweeters in the dash facing the windshield and it worked very well).

Looks like the Focals are only 2.6 inches deep--which is pretty good. I think it could work.

Our CarToys store went out of business some time back. I didn't even know they sold stereo stuff--I walked by it a zillion times and thought it was a cellphone store because that's all they had in their windows.

I'm finished modifying all the grills. I cut out big sections of the honeycomb in the middle of each, and trimmed back all flat surfaces in front of the drivers, then covered the remaining flat surfaces with uneven silicone rubber. I think the reflections at high volumes were causing distortions and sound-cancelling at certain frequencies. Who designs doors where part of the speakers are behind solid plastic???

mkeevil

I was on Focal's website, which speaker are you talking about for the door... they list a couple differnt types.

ou sig

check my sig. The polyglass line is very good, and the only line that they make in the slim series.

DerrickM, dont put the tweeters on your rear deck! that will totally screw up your soundstage. Really most people dont even have highs at all in the back. But I felt bad for my rear passengers! haha

anyway, the sound is supposed to come from in front of you (like a concert). If you have the tweeters pointing up at the back window, the highs will reflect and cancel out your fronts...basically sound all messed up. that is why I mounted all 4 of my tweeters down low right by the mid woofer in the door. I cant hear the back speakers really, so the sounds I hear are coming from in front of me.

DerrickM

Interesting! I think you're probably right--most people just go with rear-fill speakers rather than two sets of components. Maybe coaxials in the rear?

My last setup had tweeters under the windshield and in the C pillars and I was very happy with the sound.

Right now I'm regrouping and deciding my next move. I know I need to replace all the speakers I just bought a couple months ago, and I guess I'm trying to get used to the idea of spending even more money on this project!

I looked around for the Focals, and they're not very widely available (imported from France, I think). I don't think I can buy speakers (that cost that much) without auditioning them first. What everybody does have is MB Quart and JL Audio. I listened to the JL VR series and was very impressed. BUT, I never have the nerve to really blast it in the store to hear what they sound like under high power. The JLs retail for $350, and are available online for $160 or so. Of course I'll have to replace the rears too. I'm considering the components up front, with the matched coaxials in back.

I'm also having an attack of conscience: I hate to spend $350 for something I can buy for $160, but feel guilty going to stores to hear them, and then looking to buy them online for the lower price.

JnC

iTrader: (12)

Heres the link for the speakers that i had in my last TL, http://www.crutchfield.com/S-OYp4qMf...0&I=113KFCXR51, you will thank me for these, retail fo $280 but u can get them for 100 bux new on ebay, i just ordered 2 more pairs for my new TL-S. :-D, these things work fuckin awesome. When searching on ebay type in "KFC-Xr51p".

ou sig

I felt the same way, but just remember its YOUR money. I understand if you cant hear the Focals, I wish you could. Just make sure you get a speaker that will fit, and dont go cheep. I mean best buy style (no offense to anyone that works there).

DerrickM

Kills me that I spent $300 for two pair of JBL, when I could have gotten awesome speakers for the same price!

Yeah, you're right about the money. If it was $50 that would be different, but $380 local (with tax) vs. $180 online (with shipping) is a huge difference!

shawhite

personally i like the diamond audio's over the focals but that is just me.. the diamonds seem to have a little better mid bass response.. plus they are cheaper.. i have boston pro's components in my front doors and they fit pretty easily with a 1in spacer..

DerrickM

which Diamond's do you have? There's some M661 out on ebay for $200.

ou sig

BTW I got my Focal's off Ebay for not much more...I know I sound like a rep. or something, but Im not - just telling you.

AcuraX2

I have the Diamond M661's up front. Best speaker I have ever owned. I am sure the Diamond Hexes are even better but, they are quite a bit more. I got mine for around $200 and I just love them. Can't go wrong with Diamond.

DerrickM

AcuraX2 - So you have the M661, and you love them? What do you have in the rear? Oh, never mind--it's in your signature. I'll look those up.

ou_sig - I don't doubt for a second that the Focals are better speakers, but I can't find them for less than $400; and they require more mounting depth.

I'm back to considering two sets of the same components vs. rear-fill...

LIGHTBEING

I got CDT HD-62's and CL-6x's. Honestely, there are many high end speakers/component sets that you just can't go wrong with. Do some research, shop around and in the end you will be extremely happy. Some other brands to look at besides the Focals and Boston Acoustics:

Dynaudio, Diamond, Rainbow, Image Dynamics, Arc Audio, DLS, and I've heard that the higher end Alpine sets are stepping up.

DerrickM

Okay, I pulled the trigger and ordered the Diamond M661's. Should be here by the end of the week.

AcuraX2

Good choice!!

LIGHTBEING

Awesome choice!!!!

DerrickM

Well, the price was good, and the mounting depth on all they're 6 1/2" speakers is only 2 1/8". Can't wait for 'em to get here.

I'm planning on mounting the tweeters forward of the door release handles.

ou sig

good choice on the tweeter placement, just be sure to keep the rear tweeter down low...if you have components in the rear also

Scott P

just to cause mass chaos, let me throw my 2 cents in. I have been through a ton of different speakers in my car (working at a high end shop does that I suppose). I've used Alpine Type R and Type X, MB Quart PCE and QSD, cerwin vega, polk, JL, PG, and Orion, and to me so far the best bang for the buck has been none of them. Right now I am using Pioneer. Why? well i am still shocked myself. but having been able to test so many different types I finally settled on the Rev Series Pioneer speakers. 6.5 comps up front and 6.5 coaxials in the rear. The midbass is excellent and the tweets are accurate yet soft and subtle. And to top it off i got both pairs for 200 total. I've heard Focal's in a demo room, but never in our cars, but given the price points I would have to say the Pioneers actually win hands down.

DerrickM

Well it's too late for the fronts, as I already bought the mid-level Diamonds.

My next question is going to be what to do with the rears. I suppose I'll have to keep the JBLs for a while before I can get another stereo purchased approved by the "budgeting committee".

vidoprof

Well everyone has their definition of High end I guess...

Scott none of those are HIGH end in my opinion unless you go with the Diamond or MB all the others are just well middle of the road.

The focals are amazing, even the polyglass line.. but the utopia's are in the top 5 anywhere. They are real $$$, like close to $1000 for a pair of components, but again that is high end.

I personally use DLS stuff (Iridium).. just as good IMO and they win a ton of comps overseas, there arent many dealers here YET, they are starting to get recognition at the IASCA's and other shows so maybe soon, but they are one bad ass set of speakers and subs.. Amps are pretty good too... Not as good as Zapco, but not much is.

I too am NOT a rep just like their stuff.


Ryan

DerrickM

Yeah, everything is relative. I would have loved to pick up some CDTs or the Focals that OU has been recommending, but it always comes down to the cost tradeoff. (Plus, in this particular case I'm really in no mood to shoehorn 2.75" deep speaker into these @#$@% doors on the TL).

Some inexpensive speakers sound really great, but they won't take the volume. I had a set of Infinity Kappa seperates once that were absolutely amazing for clarity and SQ. But you couldn't get any volume out of them without distortion.

Up until tomorrow when the Diamonds arrive, the best speakers I've ever had (in a car) was a set of $350 Rockford seperates ("fanatic Q" I think) from 4 years ago. Not the most efficient speakers, but SQ at high volume was very very good.