Hacking Navi (continue)
11-08-2004, 07:20 PM
#121
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I don't know if an '05 RL disk will work in a TSX. My actual intentions are to get an '05 TSX disc and try it. That should enable us to use the new voice commands, and maybe get rid of the card loader issues we are having.
Does anyone know of a program like Padus DiscJuggler that reads DL DVDs? When I put my navi dvd in my computer I only see the bins and such (I think) so I think my computer can only read one of the layers, but maybe I'm wrong. I am recalling this info from a few weeks ago.
Does anyone know of a program like Padus DiscJuggler that reads DL DVDs? When I put my navi dvd in my computer I only see the bins and such (I think) so I think my computer can only read one of the layers, but maybe I'm wrong. I am recalling this info from a few weeks ago.
11-08-2004, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jhs2
So are you saying that an 05 RL disk with the extra NAV features might actually work in a 05 TL? How on earth can I get my local dealer to send me a RL disk? I could probably convince them to let me try swapping them from another car for a quick test...hmmmm.....
Assuming it works, has anyone figured out exact steps to copy one of these disks? What media and programs are needed?
Thanks in advance!
Assuming it works, has anyone figured out exact steps to copy one of these disks? What media and programs are needed?
Thanks in advance!
eg--
'05 TSX disc-->'04 TSX car (ok)
'05 TL disc-->'04 TL car (ok)
But not:
'04 TL disk-->'03 TL car (not ok per different gen)
'05 RL disk-->'04 RL car (not ok per different gen)
'05 TL disk-->'05 TSX car (not ok per different model)
'05 RL disk-->'05 TSX car (not ok per different model)
I hope that makes sence.
11-08-2004, 07:29 PM
#123
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You can always copy the BIN files to a CD as I have and load the new ROM images. My only worry is that with the new functionality, will you encounter issues if you continue to use the old map / database data?
From what I have seen, the Acura and Honda disks are all the same so it's really all based on revisions... I have both 3.26T and 3.30F. What version is the 05 TSX disc vs. 05 RL vs. 05 TL?
I believe the 3.26T version was an in between version that was released specifically for the TL.
From what I have seen, the Acura and Honda disks are all the same so it's really all based on revisions... I have both 3.26T and 3.30F. What version is the 05 TSX disc vs. 05 RL vs. 05 TL?
I believe the 3.26T version was an in between version that was released specifically for the TL.
11-08-2004, 07:33 PM
#124
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Originally Posted by jonnerd154
Not really....only within the same model and generation.
eg--
'05 TSX disc-->'04 TSX car (ok)
'05 TL disc-->'04 TL car (ok)
But not:
'04 TL disk-->'03 TL car (not ok per different gen)
'05 RL disk-->'04 RL car (not ok per different gen)
'05 TL disk-->'05 TSX car (not ok per different model)
'05 RL disk-->'05 TSX car (not ok per different model)
I hope that makes sence.
eg--
'05 TSX disc-->'04 TSX car (ok)
'05 TL disc-->'04 TL car (ok)
But not:
'04 TL disk-->'03 TL car (not ok per different gen)
'05 RL disk-->'04 RL car (not ok per different gen)
'05 TL disk-->'05 TSX car (not ok per different model)
'05 RL disk-->'05 TSX car (not ok per different model)
I hope that makes sence.
The only thing that is hard coded in the hardware, is which ROM to load from the disk.
I do believe that our units are capable of much more features, we just need the software and wiring diagrams to make it happen.
11-08-2004, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lithiumus
This is true esp. for the different gens but you CAN use the disks on different models. All the Acura and Honda disks contain all the ROMs for every model. I've forced my TL to load the Accord Nav ROM. I loose some features but it works ok.
The only thing that is hard coded in the hardware, is which ROM to load from the disk.
I do believe that our units are capable of much more features, we just need the software and wiring diagrams to make it happen.
The only thing that is hard coded in the hardware, is which ROM to load from the disk.
I do believe that our units are capable of much more features, we just need the software and wiring diagrams to make it happen.
11-08-2004, 08:00 PM
#126
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Originally Posted by jonnerd154
I don't know if an '05 RL disk will work in a TSX. My actual intentions are to get an '05 TSX disc and try it. That should enable us to use the new voice commands, and maybe get rid of the card loader issues we are having.
Does anyone know of a program like Padus DiscJuggler that reads DL DVDs? When I put my navi dvd in my computer I only see the bins and such (I think) so I think my computer can only read one of the layers, but maybe I'm wrong. I am recalling this info from a few weeks ago.
Does anyone know of a program like Padus DiscJuggler that reads DL DVDs? When I put my navi dvd in my computer I only see the bins and such (I think) so I think my computer can only read one of the layers, but maybe I'm wrong. I am recalling this info from a few weeks ago.
But I am sure that it does not matter. You can just copy files. At least current DVD does not have encryption. And I have never seen DVD drive that does not understand DL.
Actually I have DL burner too. And I bought DVD-R DL blank media for $9.50
(www.meritline.com)I still doubd that navi DVD understand DVD+R but the only way to find out - check it.
11-08-2004, 08:37 PM
#127
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I think you are waiting for news from me.
I am working on SuperH-4 emulator for Windows PC. It already can execute simple programs but it lacks several important things:
1. Virtual memory is not implemented yet. It is difficult but can be done and I am working on it. I did not expect that memory configuration in SH4 is so complicated because it is a RISC processor, Intel386 architecture is more clear. Unfortunately the documentation for SH4 is poor (maybe I have to find more).
2. I/O is mapped to the memory in SH4. We have no any information about I/O in navi unit. I can only guess. Actually ussually we don't need direct access to I/O (and maybe we don't have it in user mode application), we only have to know how to call high level functon. We can teach it from existing navi executables. Anyway I want to implement "navi screen" and "buttons".
I am working on SuperH-4 emulator for Windows PC. It already can execute simple programs but it lacks several important things:
1. Virtual memory is not implemented yet. It is difficult but can be done and I am working on it. I did not expect that memory configuration in SH4 is so complicated because it is a RISC processor, Intel386 architecture is more clear. Unfortunately the documentation for SH4 is poor (maybe I have to find more).
2. I/O is mapped to the memory in SH4. We have no any information about I/O in navi unit. I can only guess. Actually ussually we don't need direct access to I/O (and maybe we don't have it in user mode application), we only have to know how to call high level functon. We can teach it from existing navi executables. Anyway I want to implement "navi screen" and "buttons".
11-08-2004, 10:00 PM
#128
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Originally Posted by ak217
I think you are waiting for news from me.
I am working on SuperH-4 emulator for Windows PC. It already can execute simple programs but it lacks several important things:
1. Virtual memory is not implemented yet. It is difficult but can be done and I am working on it. I did not expect that memory configuration in SH4 is so complicated because it is a RISC processor, Intel386 architecture is more clear. Unfortunately the documentation for SH4 is poor (maybe I have to find more).
2. I/O is mapped to the memory in SH4. We have no any information about I/O in navi unit. I can only guess. Actually ussually we don't need direct access to I/O (and maybe we don't have it in user mode application), we only have to know how to call high level functon. We can teach it from existing navi executables. Anyway I want to implement "navi screen" and "buttons".
I am working on SuperH-4 emulator for Windows PC. It already can execute simple programs but it lacks several important things:
1. Virtual memory is not implemented yet. It is difficult but can be done and I am working on it. I did not expect that memory configuration in SH4 is so complicated because it is a RISC processor, Intel386 architecture is more clear. Unfortunately the documentation for SH4 is poor (maybe I have to find more).
2. I/O is mapped to the memory in SH4. We have no any information about I/O in navi unit. I can only guess. Actually ussually we don't need direct access to I/O (and maybe we don't have it in user mode application), we only have to know how to call high level functon. We can teach it from existing navi executables. Anyway I want to implement "navi screen" and "buttons".
11-08-2004, 10:10 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by ak217
You mean create DVD image? Use Nero (www.nero.com)
But I am sure that it does not matter. You can just copy files. At least current DVD does not have encryption. And I have never seen DVD drive that does not understand DL.
Actually I have DL burner too. And I bought DVD-R DL blank media for $9.50 (www.meritline.com)
I still doubd that navi DVD understand DVD+R but the only way to find out - check it.
But I am sure that it does not matter. You can just copy files. At least current DVD does not have encryption. And I have never seen DVD drive that does not understand DL.
Actually I have DL burner too. And I bought DVD-R DL blank media for $9.50
(www.meritline.com)I still doubd that navi DVD understand DVD+R but the only way to find out - check it.
11-08-2004, 10:32 PM
#130
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Originally Posted by jonnerd154
Wait, is my burner DL compat? I feel retarded not being able to figure this out. http://www.tdk.com/support/dvdburner...dvd8xsup.html#
But, of course, only a few DVD burners can write DL DVD.
I think your DVD burner can not write DL DVD (if it could then vendor definitely would write about it). But I know that some burners just require firmware upgrade to support writing DL DVD.
11-08-2004, 10:37 PM
#131
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Originally Posted by ak217
Any modern DVD drive definitely can read DL DVD.
But, of course, only a few DVD burners can write DL DVD.
I think your DVD burner can not write DL DVD (if it could then vendor definitely would write about it). But I know that some burners just require firmware upgrade to support writing DL DVD.
But, of course, only a few DVD burners can write DL DVD.
I think your DVD burner can not write DL DVD (if it could then vendor definitely would write about it). But I know that some burners just require firmware upgrade to support writing DL DVD.
11-09-2004, 12:31 PM
#132
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Here's a cheap dual layer burner.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&Sku=B145-8000
They also have a Sony one for $120 on the tigerdirect site.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&Sku=B145-8000
They also have a Sony one for $120 on the tigerdirect site.
11-09-2004, 09:39 PM
#133
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Originally Posted by Tsx536
Here's a cheap dual layer burner.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&Sku=B145-8000
They also have a Sony one for $120 on the tigerdirect site.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&Sku=B145-8000
They also have a Sony one for $120 on the tigerdirect site.
This drive is pretty cheap, but it says "DVD+R DL", not "DVD-R DL". Is there a difference? Man, I wish they could just get together on one freaking standard!
11-10-2004, 12:34 AM
#134
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Yes. DVD-R is the older standard for the recordable DVDs. You will find that there discs are cheaper.
After DVD-R was released, many people found out that they were having trouble playing the discs in many DVD players. To come up with a solution to the problem, then some of the big companies in the computer industry such as HP, Intel, & others came together to make a new standard of recordable DVDs. This new standard was named DVD+R. The "+" supposedly stands for compatibility. The DVD+R media is suppose to be able to be played in many more DVD players than DVD-R.
From my experiences with DVD+R vs. DVD-R, I have found that DVD+R does seem to be more compatible with more DVDs players especially the older ones.
So for a short answer to the question. I prefer DVD+R, even though the DVD-R is cheaper.
After DVD-R was released, many people found out that they were having trouble playing the discs in many DVD players. To come up with a solution to the problem, then some of the big companies in the computer industry such as HP, Intel, & others came together to make a new standard of recordable DVDs. This new standard was named DVD+R. The "+" supposedly stands for compatibility. The DVD+R media is suppose to be able to be played in many more DVD players than DVD-R.
From my experiences with DVD+R vs. DVD-R, I have found that DVD+R does seem to be more compatible with more DVDs players especially the older ones.
So for a short answer to the question. I prefer DVD+R, even though the DVD-R is cheaper.
11-10-2004, 01:13 AM
#135
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Accordingly to www.videohelp.com the amount of DVD players that support these formats are almost even. The truth is that there are no DVD-R DL writers. But DVD+R format is new. As result old units as our navi rarely support it.
11-10-2004, 04:13 PM
#136
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[replying to ak217...]
Are you writing this from scratch or building off of something? I tried finding a WinCE emulator but could never get anything to work. The WinCE developer SDK would recognize the files a valid ROM images, but would blow up on memory issues (e.g. saying they required too much).
If you need/want a tester, let me know.
Are you writing this from scratch or building off of something? I tried finding a WinCE emulator but could never get anything to work. The WinCE developer SDK would recognize the files a valid ROM images, but would blow up on memory issues (e.g. saying they required too much).
If you need/want a tester, let me know.
11-10-2004, 07:00 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by mconsidine
[replying to ak217...]
Are you writing this from scratch or building off of something? I tried finding a WinCE emulator but could never get anything to work. The WinCE developer SDK would recognize the files a valid ROM images, but would blow up on memory issues (e.g. saying they required too much).
If you need/want a tester, let me know.
Are you writing this from scratch or building off of something? I tried finding a WinCE emulator but could never get anything to work. The WinCE developer SDK would recognize the files a valid ROM images, but would blow up on memory issues (e.g. saying they required too much).
If you need/want a tester, let me know.
nice~
11-15-2004, 11:19 PM
#140
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Originally Posted by ak217
I see that threads about hacking Navi DVD are dead. So I try to resurrect this discussion.
I found an utility (dumprom - http://www.xs4all.nl/~itsme/projects/xda/dumprom.html) that can extract files from ROM images. But unfortunately it does not work for our ROM image. So I have written my own utility. It extracts files and modules from *.bin file from Navi DVD. Extracting files works fine. Extracting modules works too, at least IDA(interactive disassembler that supports SH4 among with other CPU) accept them.
So now you can do reverse engineering if you want.
http://home.earthlink.net/~akonshin/...unpackNavi.zip
Just unpack it in some directory, put *.bin file to that directory then run unpack.bat
It should create subdirectories "Files" and "Modules".
Sorry for my terrible English.
I found an utility (dumprom - http://www.xs4all.nl/~itsme/projects/xda/dumprom.html) that can extract files from ROM images. But unfortunately it does not work for our ROM image. So I have written my own utility. It extracts files and modules from *.bin file from Navi DVD. Extracting files works fine. Extracting modules works too, at least IDA(interactive disassembler that supports SH4 among with other CPU) accept them.
So now you can do reverse engineering if you want.
http://home.earthlink.net/~akonshin/...unpackNavi.zip
Just unpack it in some directory, put *.bin file to that directory then run unpack.bat
It should create subdirectories "Files" and "Modules".
Sorry for my terrible English.
11-15-2004, 11:43 PM
#143
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Originally Posted by Stokeless_TSX
I don't understand what you are hacking??? I dont get it. what modules? and fiels? And what is the point??? you talking about like screen savers or something? Im lost.
Step one is to replace existing files. Hence replaceing the Navi boot up screen, the one with the globe on it.
Step two is to develop or change other portions of the system. Like redesigning the entire interface to look like and be the colors you want.
That help?
11-15-2004, 11:52 PM
#144
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Originally Posted by e_lectro
Modifying the .bin files on the DVD that make the Navi system work. The actual programs.
Step one is to replace existing files. Hence replaceing the Navi boot up screen, the one with the globe on it.
Step two is to develop or change other portions of the system. Like redesigning the entire interface to look like and be the colors you want.
That help?
Step one is to replace existing files. Hence replaceing the Navi boot up screen, the one with the globe on it.
Step two is to develop or change other portions of the system. Like redesigning the entire interface to look like and be the colors you want.
That help?
11-16-2004, 02:54 AM
#146
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Originally Posted by Stokeless_TSX
I was refering to the module things i dont know what they are it confused me...sorry for not understands...
Navi unit is actually a computer that runs Windows CE operating system and navigation is just one of its application or module.
11-16-2004, 03:01 AM
#147
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Wow that'd be awesome if we could add modules to our navi!! Wonder if anyone else is working on this? Wish I could help ya, but my coding skills are pretty limited.
11-16-2004, 01:17 PM
#148
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Originally Posted by ak217
Actually I don't want to touch existing interface. Hacking existing modules is difficult. I want to add new modules, for example mp3 player. I think it is possible.
In theory it sounds like it would be possible since you're just reading data off of a disc and decompressing the data to get a audio (a song).
Also, does anyone have documentation or references to the syntax/parameters of the Windows CE API calls? I might be able to try to help you guys code later if you get into the latter stages of development. The development of the UI could get pretty involved based on how integrated you would like to make the mp3 player. It would be a fun project though!
11-16-2004, 02:02 PM
#149
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Originally Posted by Tsx536
The big question is whether a rom drive must have any special hardware in order to be able to read/play mp3s. In the Cd players out there that play mp3s, is there any special internal hardware required in order to allow the drive to be able to read/process the data (mp3s) properly?
In theory it sounds like it would be possible since you're just reading data off of a disc and decompressing the data to get a audio (a song).
In theory it sounds like it would be possible since you're just reading data off of a disc and decompressing the data to get a audio (a song).
We can place mp3 files on CompactFlash/PCMCIA storage card. Navi definitely can read it. The only question is that is the processor powerful enough to handle the load (navigating and decopressing at the same time). Unfortunately we have no information about frequency of CPU.
Originally Posted by Tsx536
Also, does anyone have documentation or references to the syntax/parameters of the Windows CE API calls? I might be able to try to help you guys code later if you get into the latter stages of development. The development of the UI could get pretty involved based on how integrated you would like to make the mp3 player. It would be a fun project though!
The API is very similar to Win32 API.
11-23-2004, 01:56 PM
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For what it's worth, the image format of the background screen on the DVD seems to be a slightly non-standard version of the common BMP format. Specifically, the field of bytes which provides the embedded color palette - if it is to stay at 173 colors - needs to be a field that is only that large. In other words, you can't have the normal color field that could accomodate the mapping of all 256 colors, because you would then end up with an image a few hundred bytes larger than the "default" image.
To use such a BMP as the image file, you'd need to figure out how to get the ROM image file's offsets to deal with the new, larger image.
To swap in a new image that is the correct 480x234 size, one can use the first 746 bytes of the default image, and mate that with the image data from a new image (which has been appropriately saved with a 173 color palette).
I'm sure that's as clear as mud ...
To use such a BMP as the image file, you'd need to figure out how to get the ROM image file's offsets to deal with the new, larger image.
To swap in a new image that is the correct 480x234 size, one can use the first 746 bytes of the default image, and mate that with the image data from a new image (which has been appropriately saved with a 173 color palette).
I'm sure that's as clear as mud ...
11-23-2004, 02:03 PM
#151
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To add one more thing and make things easier...
- The BMP is gets stretched vertically about 30% from the BMP to the screen.
So just compress the image vertically by 30% and it should look normal when it's on screen.
Instead of messing around with the original image, just pick a 16mill color picture, convert it to BMP, squish and adjust the size so that it is 480x234 then convert the color to 256 with a 173 color palette. That will give you the closest color rendering possible and will ensure that your BMP is the right size. Any Image editor should be capable of this. I used Lview.
- The BMP is gets stretched vertically about 30% from the BMP to the screen.
So just compress the image vertically by 30% and it should look normal when it's on screen.
Instead of messing around with the original image, just pick a 16mill color picture, convert it to BMP, squish and adjust the size so that it is 480x234 then convert the color to 256 with a 173 color palette. That will give you the closest color rendering possible and will ensure that your BMP is the right size. Any Image editor should be capable of this. I used Lview.
11-23-2004, 07:20 PM
#153
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Originally Posted by elduderino
Sounds very clear...
I am looking to place a logo on a nav screen of a TSX demo car... anyone think they can pull that off for me?
I am looking to place a logo on a nav screen of a TSX demo car... anyone think they can pull that off for me?
I think I've sent you info about the new utility that is capable to replace files in ROM image, if I have not - please let me know.
11-23-2004, 07:31 PM
#154
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Originally Posted by mconsidine
To use such a BMP as the image file, you'd need to figure out how to get the ROM image file's offsets to deal with the new, larger image.
11-23-2004, 07:57 PM
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Perhaps I did it incorrectly, but when I tried replacing the original *TL* background file with one slightly larger, I got an error to the effect of something-spanning-multiple-files. (I forget the exact error.)
11-23-2004, 08:32 PM
#156
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Originally Posted by mconsidine
Perhaps I did it incorrectly, but when I tried replacing the original *TL* background file with one slightly larger, I got an error to the effect of something-spanning-multiple-files. (I forget the exact error.)
11-24-2004, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mconsidine
For what it's worth, the image format of the background screen on the DVD seems to be a slightly non-standard version of the common BMP format. Specifically, the field of bytes which provides the embedded color palette - if it is to stay at 173 colors - needs to be a field that is only that large. In other words, you can't have the normal color field that could accomodate the mapping of all 256 colors, because you would then end up with an image a few hundred bytes larger than the "default" image.
To use such a BMP as the image file, you'd need to figure out how to get the ROM image file's offsets to deal with the new, larger image.
To swap in a new image that is the correct 480x234 size, one can use the first 746 bytes of the default image, and mate that with the image data from a new image (which has been appropriately saved with a 173 color palette).
I'm sure that's as clear as mud ...
To use such a BMP as the image file, you'd need to figure out how to get the ROM image file's offsets to deal with the new, larger image.
To swap in a new image that is the correct 480x234 size, one can use the first 746 bytes of the default image, and mate that with the image data from a new image (which has been appropriately saved with a 173 color palette).
I'm sure that's as clear as mud ...
Oh, and you have to destort the image so that it will be displayed properly on the Navi Screen.
11-24-2004, 06:22 PM
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You can paste the image in, but then you end up with a Index pallette that is not optimised for your image.
Also, you do not have to distort the image, you can trim it to the right size... or if its not wide enough, make it bigger then cut it back. Who wants to look at a distorted picture?
Also, you do not have to distort the image, you can trim it to the right size... or if its not wide enough, make it bigger then cut it back. Who wants to look at a distorted picture?
11-25-2004, 12:59 PM
#160
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Hopefully after reading these 7 pages (along with a bunch more at an MDX forum that refferenced this thread) I didnt miss it.
Are AK217's bin recompile tools "ready for action" yet?
Last I saw on this was "I dont want to release a half done product that could mess up your Car" or something to that effect.
I was tracking lithiumus's new project of putting an 04 TL NAVI into his NSX. He shows a working "Custom Boot Screen" in one of his images but doesnt tell anyone else how to do it. I started digging this morning, and a few Acura sites later, found this thread.
Anyway, thanks for all your work on this project guys. Cant wait till one of you is surfing the net or playing some CE game on your TSX/TL/MDX NAVI Screen.
-Casper42
PS: Lithiumus - where is the DEC NSXprime meet gonna be? If your gonna bring the NSX with the new NAVI, I would love to drop by and check it out.
Are AK217's bin recompile tools "ready for action" yet?
Last I saw on this was "I dont want to release a half done product that could mess up your Car" or something to that effect.
I was tracking lithiumus's new project of putting an 04 TL NAVI into his NSX. He shows a working "Custom Boot Screen" in one of his images but doesnt tell anyone else how to do it. I started digging this morning, and a few Acura sites later, found this thread.
Anyway, thanks for all your work on this project guys. Cant wait till one of you is surfing the net or playing some CE game on your TSX/TL/MDX NAVI Screen.
-Casper42
PS: Lithiumus - where is the DEC NSXprime meet gonna be? If your gonna bring the NSX with the new NAVI, I would love to drop by and check it out.