jonnerd154

You would need a driver for that. :-/

mconsidine

Good point...
Also, just to clarify : the log file it writes is a list of any error messages it generates. Not data like speed, direction, etc.

mconsidine

Then again ... Looking at the unpacked files seems to show references to the TCP/IP protocol and other networking/modem related items. A file named default has some of this in it.

jonnerd154

It is a text version of the "System History" screen in developer mode, or a more verbose version? Can you upload the files, or email them to me at jonnerd154@aol.com and I will host them for us all to see?

mconsidine

I succeeded in getting the unit to recognize a 128Mb Compact Flash card. The trick was to format it (on an XP machine) using a FAT partition (as opposed to a FAT32 partition). Presumably that's because the CPU is 16bit, but that's just a guess.

The result was that I was able to use it like the 8Mb one. For some reason, though, logging gyro. data was something I could turn on. That resulted in large binary files getting created each time I selected Save History. I don't know what the format it, but a header on the file reads "Ceylong CU 1.2" and later the word "SRAM" shows up. This would obviously seem to be some kind of static ram dump.

One other note. With a 16bit partition rather than the 12bit partition of the other CF disk, longer file names are allowed. So the data dumps are named MMDDHHMMSENSOR.DAT
(i.e. month-date-hour-minutes, using system/universal time stamps).

The error log files are named according to the convention
YYMMDDHHMMErrHist.TXT

Finally,
log_list.TXT
gets created as well, though the only entry (at the moment) is
Sensor.dat
(I think this is just an elaboration of the filename "stub")

Hope this helps someone.

Tsx536

Damn..I wish Navi!! I'm a programmer also, and it would be fun to hack this thing!

Keep going guys...Good Luck!!

jonnerd154

Good Work!! I still have not gotten my adapter, maybe tonight.

Here is mconsidine's log that he sent me...I'm hosting it like a good kid.

Clicky Click...

e_lectro

At least I'm not the only one with all of those warnings in my log, lol
Now if we just knew what they were.....

einsatz

sloppy programming?

I can see it at the Alpine labs:
Developer: Sir, the navi works but we're getting a lot of warnings in the logs, we need more time to clean the code up, or we can run into problems in the future.
Manager: So the code works, and is stable!
Developer: No, we've got warnings, we need at least two more da...
Manager: Great! I'll label it as production code.
Developer: Fine, whatever, nobody will see the errors anyway.

mconsidine

I'd vote for sloppy programming, IMHO. It's also evident when you select "Card Load" when there is nothing on the card for it to load. I get "ATA Card Read Error" and a frozen Navi. The only thing that seems to allow it reboot is a restart of the car. Better programming would have handled that "nicely."

Does anyone know of a way of rebooting it without a restart? It would also be useful to know how to force a load from dvd without having to go through menus (i.e. force a load with some key press combo).

jonnerd154

yeah, I have a bajillion errors from navi.exe and a few subs. I agree that it was just trying to get the software out the door.

ak217

I think we have to search for yet another three keys combination - it is Windows

ak217

CPU is 32bit, trust me. But it is possible that navi understand just one of FAT format 12bit or 16bit. From the other hand you have reported that the same card was successfully used for storing history. It means that OS can use this card without problems. It also means that there are restrictions(or bugs) in card loader.

I reformated my 512M CF, put bins on it then tried to load. The same result - "ATA card read error".

I think I should investigate the loader and this task is high priority.

mconsidine

I double checked the two CF formats : 16Mb was 12-bit FAT, 128Mb was FAT (16bit, I assume). It's possible that the reader doesn't like storage over a certain size??

I've moved the relevant BIN file over to CF and will try to load it. Looking through the other files on the disk, it would seem that it might also need 2 other files. One seems to be a list of BIN files and the other seems to some sort of loader. (Maybe it's the bootloader - I don't have the file names handy ...)

If my car works after doing this and I make it home I'll report on it <G>

(In all seriousness, the car has worked fine with the Navi either not loaded because the DVD was missing, or because I had locked it about at various screens...)

ak217

Of course navi's CPU is NOT car's main computer.

I believe you need just two files: one is the small bin (but not ...zzz file) and the other is ROM image itself.
Actually as you remember I've already tried 16M CF card without success.
64M CF did not work either.

mconsidine

Yeah, I know. That was a poorly-executed tongue-in-cheek comment

Anyway, I just tried "Card Load" with the following files on the Card :
80000000.BMP
BN2HH12C.BIN
BN2HHMLD.BIN
PRG_INFO.MNG

(this is on an '04 TL ...)

There were a couple of other auto-unrelated folders on the disk as well (which has not stopped it from successfully writing log files).

The result was an "ATA Card Read Error" freeze screen.

I looked at the DVD on regular CD/DVD reader and did not see any hidden files. Any ideas what I'm missing?

jonnerd154

Probly a limitation of the actual allocation table, and the OS' ability to manipulate it. Kinda like how you had to install a patch for drives over a certain size to appear on windows 98.

mconsidine

FWIW, putting a D-Link 802.11g wireless network card in the PCMCIA slot doesn't accomplish anything. Either because the size of the card prevents the door from closing (which the system detects) or because it doesn't have a driver, the familiar "PC Card is not inserted" error is generated.

Looking through the text of one of the files loaded, though, seems to suggest that the system might be able to recognize things other than storage in that slot (e.g. ethernet adapter, modem).

jonnerd154

It would be really cool if I could park my car outside and see it as a network drive on my desktop just think about the fun we could have with a remote control program like Funk Proxy or Dameware.

jonnerd154

OK, so how can we get rid of this fawking disclaimer. I'm sick of signing my life away everytime I drive my car.

elduderino

Welcome to the Windows CE OS kernel. Alpine put a hat and glasses on this thing, but underneath, it's still a potato.

I think the RS runs a newer WindowsMobile kernel...

mconsidine

I copied as many of the relevant files as I could to a 128Mb (16bit FAT) Compact Flash/PCMCIA card and tried "Card Load". I didn't work. Got the same "ATA Card Read Error." Turning on the log of the gyro. readings (whatever the heck that means), generated a 2Mb file over the space of a 1hr car ride.

I'll try doing the same thing to the smaller, 16Mb, 12bit FAT Compact Flash and see if that makes any difference. My hunch is that it won't. I wonder if the loader checks for a certain number of files or timestamps?

Does anyone know if there's another layer on the DVD and whether or not the loader could be checking for some file that is there, but unreadable by a common DVD reader?

FWIW ...

e_lectro

The DVD is dual layer, has to be, its over 4G. But a hidden file? Unlikely. Any good cd/dvd burning program would notice it.

ak217

As I've already reported loading ROM image from CD-R works fine and it is quit enough just put loader and bin files. I forgot to check CD-RW, but I think it should work too.

Now I am investigating the loader. It is hard work and I don't expect immidiate results. But I am very persistent person (I think I proved it).
It seems like ROM can be loaded from CD/DVD, ATA Card, IC Card (what is it?) and even parallel port! The last thing is very intresting. Where is LPT connector?

ak217

I think IC Card is stay for LAN Card (remember "NIC adapter" in PC world?).
The loader definitely tries to initialize LAN adapter - I see it in code (function InitLANBoardTest - it is very intresting name, isn't it?).

mconsidine

FWIW, taking the files I had on the Compact Flash and burning them to a CD-R seemed to result in the ability to boot from the CD. Anyone know what could be different between the two media that would cause the "Load" option to work in one case, but not the other?

mconsidine

New (to me) sub-menu:
Go to "Developer" screen.
Select "System History"
You'll get a list of errors and a chance to save them if a Storage Card is loaded.
Now, while here, hold the Menu button for 3-5 seconds.
You'll get an "Exception Information" screen, with what appears to be a history of major
software "exceptions."
Select Save.

When I checked the log file (I had 4 exceptions listed), I had a 192Kb *text* file that looks
like the output you'd get if you had a debug flag turned on.

... FWIW

ak217

"Card LOAD" looking for the file NK.BIN
It is obvious because Diag.exe does not contain any other names (except some names for files where logs are stored).
I think it is just renamed ROM image file. But it could be a loader (but I am doubt about it).
It is too dangerous to check it.
It seems like the loader on DVD does not contain code for loading from PC Card (despite the fact that it contains some messages that are mentioned PC Card). At least I can't find it but I found and even understand a lot of code that deal with loading form DVD. I see too possibilities:
1. PC Card should contain special loader (with name NK.BIN ?)
2. Loader is not required in case of PC Card. ROM image must be called "NK.BIN"
Anyway I think I spent too much time on it. We can use CD-R/RW too loading our ROM images. And it is obvious that nothing is wrong with our cards - navi can read them. It is enough for our needs.

I think the next step should be to write "Hello, world" program. It is a difficult task but I am sure it is doable. From the loader's code I learn how to show messages on the screen. From Diag.exe and other executables we can learn how to create windows and draw something.

mconsidine

On an '04 TL I just tried renaming both the relevant .BIN file and the BN2HHMLD.BIN file (alternately) to NK.BIN and tried "Card Load" in each case. Got the same error in each case : "ATA Card Read Error"

... for what it's worth.

mconsidine

A different question, since it's a variant of Windows : if there is no master boot record (like on a PC's system disk) *and* the flash ROM gets corrupted, is there a way to force a boot using some sort of AutoPlay/Autoexec program? Or, rather, would the system automatically boot from a DVD/CD if there were an appropriately named file? In the absence of everything else, does WinCE/Auto have a fallback program it looks for?

I guess this all hinges on the "ATA Card Read Error", "Software Downloading...", etc. messages come from WinCE in some hardwired chip somewhere, rather than the previously loaded version of the system.

ak217

The loader contains those messages. A some function show those messages by number but I could not find code that produce those message numbers. I think card loading code is simply not included in the loader from DVD. You can noticed by yourself that the loader contains a lot of debug messages that deal with DVD but just a few messages that are mentioned card.
Maybe navi contains ROM with its own loader. But it also possible that it does not have ROM cheaps. Maybe it contains separated flashROM chip for loader.
BTW, have you seen ROM chips inside navi unit?

ak217

You are brave man...
Respect.

mconsidine

... or stupid

In any event, renaming them to NK.EXE didn't seem to work either. Unless I goofed something up.

who00knows

So did anyone ever figure out if we can use the 05 model discs..........RL...TL....TSX........

jonnerd154

I don't see why we can't use the '05 discs, as long as you don't throw an '05 RL disc in the TSX, or but an '05 RL disc in the '04 RL. I will go down to my dealership and ask if I can see an '05 disc later this week to confirm tho. I'll just copy the BINs on to my laptop and do the rest at home.

e_lectro

If you are going to copy the bins, might as well copy it all

jonnerd154

hmmm, this is true....I don't know if my DVD burner can burn duel layer DVDs tho.

I'll copy them and make an ISO.

jhs2

So are you saying that an 05 RL disk with the extra NAV features might actually work in a 05 TL? How on earth can I get my local dealer to send me a RL disk? I could probably convince them to let me try swapping them from another car for a quick test...hmmmm.....

Assuming it works, has anyone figured out exact steps to copy one of these disks? What media and programs are needed?

Thanks in advance!

lithiumus

Hey ak217,

Sorry I haven't checked the forum in some time. I actually tested loading the ROMs from CDRs and CDRWs when I was fooling around with the files and renaming them. Let me know if you want some help testing as I'd like to help. My initial intention was to change the Acura logo to Honda but still retain all the 04 TL functionality i.e. XM, Sub and center speaker control, etc.

jonnerd154, I have a Dual Layer DVD burner and a few blank DVD+R DL media. If you send me 2 clean DVD burns of the files you obtained off of the 05 RL disk, I'll do a Dual Layer burn test. PM me and let me know.

DL media is around $13 a pop so please ensure that the rip and burn are clean i.e. do verification on the files. LMK.

lithiumus

The only issue is that the ROMs on the disk are specifically meant for certain cars. If you loaded up the RL disk in a TL, your TL Nav will pick up the TL image not the RL image. The only way you'd be able to force or trick the TL / TSX to pick up the RL image is to rename it the name of the TL / TSX image.

I've done with the Accord image and forced my TL to load the Accord image but I loose some of the functionality...