elduderino

As soon as you can change ANYTHING, you can change the OSD for when the AUX is selected and an adapter is connected...

I think the Acura wakeup screen is in the Nav HW as the DVD loads, so that isn't going anywhere unless we know how to load a JPEG into the HW (many DVD players have a process for doing this).

ak217

Sorry guys.
I bought Toyota Prius 2005 (with navi, of course ) for my wife so every evening I teach her to drive (this is her first car). So I have not much time for my navi investigation.
But I am continue working on the utility and now it can replace/insert/delete files from *.bin, maybe in the future I will even implement replacing modules (it is not easy but I think it is doable).

BTW, now I know that the navi from Honda is better then the one from Toyota.

ak217

Maybe I don't understand you statement right but
1. "wakeup screen" is BMP file inside of *.bin and it can be easely replaced because size of unpacked BMP is depend on size and resolution of picture only and does not depend on content, so any image with the same size and resolution will have exactly the same file size. As result you can replace this file without disturbing other files and modules inside *.bin. Although my new utility can do it even for files with different sizes but the case with same sizes is much more safe.
2. As I understand now there are at least two ways to update DVD flashROM: using CD-R/DVD-R and using PCMCIA ATA storage card. Both of them should work.

elduderino

Great!

1) So, ak217, you can offer a system which allows TSX owners to change their wakeup screen?

2) My understanding was not that the data could not be upgraded, but taht you hadn't yet obtained all the data that you needed from the device (I am assuming that you ahve to update the entire image at one time, not solely specific files). Cna you confirm or correct my understanding?

Thanks,

ElD

mconsidine

ak217 : thanks for all your insights on this.

Related to this : are there any pictures available of the DVD-ROM box that show what ports might be available for access and do we know anything about what kind of video connections there are? I guess I'm wondering what things a smart card app might have access to.

Also, does anyone have suggestions on PC-based developer apps that could be used to create a "hello world" type of app that the unit could load from a PC Card?

ak217

You need Windows CE Platform builder. Now they propose version 4.2 .NET (that I have) but the version of WinCE in navigation is different - unfortunately I still don't know exact navi WinCE version. But I think it is not a big deal.
Another and more important problem is that we still have no keyboard. I think it can be resolved by connecting to navi via COM port if we can found it then use terminal program to access shell process in navi. Somebody mentioned some misterious connector just near navi unit, I think it can be what we are lookig for. I remember some guy from MDX or clubtsx forum disassemled (phisically) navi unit and made pictures but I can't found these pictures now. Is anybody remember them?

ak217

I think I can. I can't say it for sure because I have not tested it yet.

Let me explain.

On the navi DVD you can see a bunch of files. Most of them are just navi database, voice files, etc. But it also contain several *.bin files, one of them is relatively small (it is the loader) and all others are almost with the same size (flashROM images for all Honda/Acura cars where navi can be installed). Each *.bin file actually consists of files and modules. You can use viewbin utility from WinCE platform builder to list its content. Files are just files (maybe compressed). Modules are memory snaps of loaded exe and dll.
I have created an utility that can extract all these files and even reconstruct files from modules (at least they can be loaded and investigated in disassembler). It works fine. But now I am implementing even more functionality: the utility can replace/insert/delete files (don't search on my web site, it is not released yet).
We still have no our executables but we can replace some data files, for example that "wakeup screen".

mconsidine

Yes, I did see those pictures. But the connector "in the upper left" (as I recall it being identified) went to the GPS receiver in the unit. The next output was the power supply, and the third was the video/audio (presumably).

On the motherboard, however, were 2 unused 30-pin connectors. They sat behind the PC Card slot.

I don't recall that there were any other ports, though.

I looked at my DVD on a Win XP machine last night and saw the files you mention. Also the JPG of the US continent. And I've since found the WinCE site at M*soft. Looks like the desktop-based devel. kit is a free download, if you can handle the size.

I have an old Casio Cassiopeia, which has an old version of WinCE and a Hitachi SH3 processor. Think this could be of any help in this effort/

mconsidine

Forgot to mention : those pictures were at
http://home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/navi/inside.html
and dealt with an older model, I believe. So we still need to see what the inside/outside of a current one looks like ...

jonnerd154

So is it decided that the above is not as easy as he described?

ak217

No, we are not discussing that. As I said I think it works. The problem is that it is not intresting just to load existing flashROM image from CD-R/DVD-R or PC Card because we already have that image loaded by Honda/Alpine.
The problems are:
1. How to add/replace anything on that image to add/replace some navi functionality?
2. What we can add (dll and executables)?
3. How we can start our files/modules?

I think I have partial solution for the first problem.

About the second problem: I think it is not a big deal to write some application for expirienced developer if he has the right tool.

The third problem is still unresolved. Maybe we can change functionality of some dialog buttons that they will start our modules (or our shell). Or maybe we can add our combination keys like that is used for starting Diag. I don't know right now.

jonnerd154

ok, gotcha...I finally got around to trying out you program for un packing the BINs and noticed that the image in there....now I will leave you alone so you can finish writing the program to recompile the BINs. Sorry!!!

jonnerd154

Maybe we should to get a copy of the '05 RL's DVD...both street names and numbers are voice controlled with that, and I for one would love to add that functionality.

Whiskers

Since you guys seem to be reverse engineering the Nav (I don’t program, but let me know if you need me to install an e-mail system on the NAV )...

The scans of the new brochure said that the NAV in the 05 TSX knows about 100 more voice commands then the 04. Do we know if we can upgrade ours to know all the new voice commands?

Thanks

e_lectro

I tore down the navi system within the first month of having, the pics that were up over at club are also here: http://www.sounddomain.com/member_pa...=389428&page=4
Sorry for the bas resolution, but the cammera I had was not great.


Yes, we should be able to update. Either buy a new disk, or ask somsone at the dealership if you can borrow one of the new dvd-roms. Pull your disk out, put theirs in, start the car up, let the new program load, then give them their disk back. That should update the software on your navi, the system always checks its surrent version against what is on the disk... if the disk is newer it will overwrite what it has stored. If the disk is older, it will ignore the older version.

elduderino

We built a mobitex-enabled two-way e-mail system in '99 for the AutoPC...it would read the incoming messages to you through the L and H test-to-speech engine. Had 16 preprogrammed outgoing messages too... ran into the fundamental issue that the AutoPC sucked.

Guys, neverf underestimate the value of redefinable splach screens. I will guarantee people will pay for it...hell, if you create Acura dealer logo images, you could sell them to dealerships! Seen it with expeditor DVD entertainment systems...

jonnerd154

But the info to do it should be free here, rriiiiiight. Becuase I don't want to capitalize on the idea, just use it myself.

ak217

Are you sure?
Did anybody update your navi with new DVD? What was the procedure?
I think the flash ROM may be updated only by our intention using Diag screens. If navi checks its version than it can create additional problem for us.

e_lectro

Actually, you might be correct, it was over a year ago I did this... The Service manual says to go into diagnostics, go to the Version screen, and do a DISC LOAD.

ak217

I made it.

I replaced the "wakeup" picture in ROM image then burn it on CD-R and successfully load it to navi. So it works.

Unfortunately the way with PC Card did not work for me. I think it is not because it is impossible but because I use PCMCIA<->CompactFlash adapter and the size of CF is 512M. Maybe I will try to investigate this issue in the future. I beleive that it must work.

humperdood

What exactly did you do? I'm not sure I understand. You mean the screen that first pops up on the navigation screen? You replaced that image? So you burned another image on a CD-R, loaded it into the navigation DCD slot, and the image took? Any other details that we need to know?

Hell that would be awesome if I can load a picture of my wife on there!

ak217

Yes, I replaced that first screen. But I think you confuse two meanings of word "image".
In one case it is graphic image - picture. In another it is flashROM image - file *.bin.
The picture is inside of that bin file and the trick is to replace it - create new flashROM image, then write it to CD-R, then bla-bal-bla... My achivement is that the utility has been created that can replace files inside that flashROM image.

jonnerd154

SWEET!!!! When do we get access to that?? puuulleeezz!

jonnerd154

I have a 128MB CF card, and I would be willing to grab a CF<->PCMCIA adapter to test it for you.

ak217

You can try but the same thing did not work for me. I have no idea why. I beleive it must work. But I am not familiar with PC Cards and flashes, maybe it is just a feature of my adapter. PCMCIA<->CF adapter cost about $8-$15. I bought mine in CompUSA and it is noname card (just CompUSA logo on it). Navi says that it can't read the card.

I will try to use CD-RW this evening. If it work (but it is quit possible that it does not) then I can use CD-RW for testing and save some money.

havokgroup

Much props ak217. Please keep us informed!

jonnerd154

We could also try a real PCMCIA flash memory card, and nix the adaptor. I dunno. I think we should test it once with the CD and if that works move to the more flexible card solution...like you said.

So are you going to let us have the software to repack the BINs?

jonnerd154

I got thinking some more about CF cards....I have a multi-function printer that has media card readers on it. I had a normal speed 64MB CF card, and the printer could read it just fine. When I bought my 128MB card that was "HIGH SPEED" the printer could not read it.

Maybe you are incountering the same incompatiblity??

ak217

Yes, I think it is the problem. But as I said I am not a guru in this field, maybe somebody can help?

jonnerd154

'm going to buy a card adapter tomorrow and see if I can get it to work with some tinkering. I'm pretty good with hardware, but software I can only do Perl and PHP and dhtml elements of course...so I am no use there. I'm a network guy.

ak217

I just tried 16M and 64M CF cards that I have. The same result - "ATA card read error".

jonnerd154

It's probly the adapter then.

http://www.provantage.com/buy-220612...c-shopping.htm ...that might be the next step.

mconsidine

Notes on PC-Card and Navi

- Bought a Sandisk Compact Flash PCMCIA adapter card from Circuit City ($13)
I believe this is a TypeII card.
- Inserted Lexar Compact Flash (16MB) card that came with a Nikon
Coolpix 4300 camera. The CF apparently has a 12-bit
FAT partition, since XP's "Defrag" identifies it
as such. Error message says Defrag can only work on
16 bit FAT, FAT32 or NTFS file systems.
- Navi would give "ATA Card Read Error" and lock up if tried to
use "Card Load" option in diagnostics menu (MAP+MENU+CANCEL->Version)
- After restart, "Log Data" option (in developer menu) gives a
"Gyro data On/Off" menu, but button seems to stay "Off"
- Under "System History" (again, in developer menu)
a "Save" button now appears and saves history to
a text file. Naming convention is YYMMDDHHMM.txt, where HHMM seems
to be Universal Time (e.g. 8:33am EST = 1233).
- Under "Unit check" on diagnostic menu screen, a button for "PC Card"
appears. It correctly identifies the card label/product ("ATA Lexar Twister").
- PC-Card was readable without a problem under WinXP, using the same CF
adapter card in a laptop PCMCIA slot.

... Matt

mconsidine

... By the way, this was done on an 04 TL Navi system.

ak217

I read some articles about CompactFlash and CF<->PCMCIA adapters.
As I understand, adapters do nothing - they just remap CF connector to PCMCIA connector.
Specification claims that CF with adapter should be fully compatible to original PCMCIA card.
So the problem is not in adapter.
Ok, it looks like I need to investigate the loader. Probably navi just looks for some specific file or disk label and report disk error just because it is not found.

ak217

You say that navi can write to this card but shows "read error" when you try to load image, correct?
Then it looks like it is software problem rather than hardware problem. So it can be fixed.

jonnerd154

Like a validation "key" of sorts?

e_lectro

Any chance you are going to post this soon?

ak217

I am a serious developer and I try do not release raw products especially if it potentially can cause damage
Are there any voluteers to test my alpha/beta versions? Send me private message.
Especially I am looking for guys who have expirience in software/hardware development.
Of course I will test my utility by myself before releasing it even to "beta-team".

mconsidine

That's correct.

By the way, I think you mentioned in a prior message "winsock.dll" being loaded. When I scroll through the list of installed "progams" in the developer menu, I don't see any mention of this, for what it's worth.

My hunch is that the bootloader is looking for the file that has the list of .BIN images, as well as the images themselves. I would guess, then, that I could keep the DVD loaded at the same time as a PC Card is inserted and - as long as each loaded program allows for a "reload" from one or the other device - that I could boot an image with a new screen, then kick out and boot the original. In other words, it doesn't seem as though there's any trick boot sector on the DVD or other hidden files it goes looking for. Could be wrong though...

Also, if I'm feeling daring, I'll plug my wireless LAN card into the slot at some point and see what happens. Wonder if it'll show up on my home network? <G>

Matt