ASuddenSilence

I'm narrowing down my options for front components and it's come down to Focal 165K ($350) and Diamond Audio HEX ($300). I've heard nothing but good things about both of them. Anybody have experience with either of these? Just for the record, no I won't go for the Utopias or anything in that price range. I'm limiting myself to $400 tops for a set. I'm also up in the air for rear coaxial speakers.

The last thread I started, was about component speakers in general, and people gave useful yet diverse/contradicting answers. I guess it made me more aware of the products but at the same time, more confused! Anyways, any opinions would be appreciated.

jpswanberg

if you can get either of those at a reputable dealer for those prices, that's great. i bet that the price you'll be quoted will be closer to double what you have written. both are quality seperates, but the hex is better (imho) because you can get a silk tweeter or a metal dome one. each has a distinct sound, listen to both with your favorite material before buying. jps

jlspeed29

i personally love the 165k's i had 130k's in my last accord and loved them, only used the focal tweets and used jl xr mids in the rear for fill only, most people were blown away. Id be pretty cautious of where ur getting them from, sounds like internet pricing...lol.. i love it talk about sticker shock!
happy trails

ASuddenSilence

I'm looking at www.acaraudio.com for the Diamond 600s series and (what seems to be based on feedback) a reputable dealer on ebay for the Focal speakers.

elduderino

Since Focal dealers are contractually prehibited from selling on ebay, if you want to buy them from an actual Focal dealer, you will need to pay a bit more and go direct. Ping StreetEffectz?

ASuddenSilence

Any real reason besides warranty to go direct to an authorized dealer? $300 extra to get a warranty doesn't exactly sound appealing.

ou sig

very true and the bad thing about Focal is if you have to send it off...it will take forever to get it back - so if you go to the store for the warranty, be sure they will just replace it for you on the spot.

But I got mine off Ebay for nearly half price also (absolutely love the speakers BTW), I have had them for 1 year and the only problem was I blew 1 tweeter - but that was my fault because I really blasted the hell out of it when I was drunk (at my land with my dad) with classic rock for way too long and it just burned up - I was too used to my KLF-20 Klipsch home speakers with 2 horns/speaker that can take the highs at unbelievable volumes and clarity for hours.

But I blew my previous tweeters (Kenwood Excelon) 4 times in less than 1 year - so what I am getting at is, just get them off Ebay to save the money. Cause if you do blow a tweeter or mid, they sell them on Ebay anyway for good prices.

elduderino

I weep for the future...

ou sig

the future is fine - and its fine for all retail stores also - but the fact is, markup wont be the same and stores are going to have to realize that they are now competing with the Internet also and those that dont, will not be around for long. Look at CD prices - 5 or so years ago they were commonly $15-$18/CD, now they are $10-$12 - its just Economics and the competition of business when there is excess profit to be had.

It sucks for stores, I agree, but its good for the consumer - just look at WalMart. How many mom and pop stores have they drove out of business when they come into town? Same way with the Internet, the stores that have a good customer base, marketing, and are understand how to run a business will be just fine if some people buy off the Internet vs. at their store. There are many things that I will buy from a real store no matter what - I just got the Focals off the Internet because knowone around here carried them.

I want to own my own business someday also - home and car electronics, so I understand how it would suck to have someone go into your store and just go buy on the Internet. I at least do my own research and dont waste a salesmans time if Im not going to buy it from their store.

DerrickM

It is sad, but it's hard to argue with half-price. It's also something that the manufacturers could prevent if they tried hard enough. Some brands you never see outside of the channel; other brands you could buy by the pallet on eBay. I think the big risk is you never know which companies are selling B-stock via non-authorized resellers.

elduderino

I shouldn't hijack the thread, so sorry to the thread originator...

Why does ANYONE buy speakers on the Internet? Either because they've heard them in a friend's setup or had them recommended by a friend, or because they have heard them in a store. In order for me to put them in the demo board or a demo car, I have to make a large purchase, make several commitments as to what I will do and not do with the gear, and often pre-pay for the product (many suppliers make new businesses pay up front for inventory). Then it's on the Internet for far cheaper? Of COURSE it is. there's no store, no rent, no demo board capital investment, no inventory flooring costs. It's on the Internet because some dealer PROMISED that he wouldn't sell his products purchased on the Internet, and he LIED. He;'s just trying to get rid of some stock that he shouldn't have bought in the first place, to justify a lower cost from the supplier due to his volume numbers. Unfortunately, when a product like Focal is on the Internet, it's because some dealer broke his word to restrict his sales to the appropriate channels.

I'm not complaining about competing with the Internet. Either people will pay for knowledge and experience or they won't. I'm complaining about people like you who try to convince others that I (and those like me) add no value to the purchase of a product. Your contradiction is showing. You COULD have typed "Buy these from a dealer if they'll make you a deal, so that you can get some service". But you didn't say that, so don't try to be the retailer's friend now.

I had a guy come in today who had Infinity speakers in his Civic Si. He was disappointed in the sound - it wasn't what he wanted at all. He had bought these off the internet, so he was pretty much screwed - he can't return them once installed. He's coming back tomorrow for $150-a-pair DLS speakers to see if they solve his sonic problems. We'll exchange them, we'll let him try them for 30 days, we'll let him return them if he doesn't like them... but how am I supposed to pay for that service? For the person who spends that time with him? All that costs money... whether he buys from me or not, it costs money.

In the future, there will not be enough profit in selling this kind of gear for smart people to choose to enter into the field. Hell, we're already there. So when you go to find someone like me or Ron in 10 years or 20 years, all you can find is someone who got hired for minimum wage at Best Buy. Hopefully they can answer your question.

How will someone build a brand in 10 years if there are no independents? How will a Focal or a DLS get their reputations? From epinions? I suspect that sonic evaluations, as well as installations, are too individual to work on such a basis.

Should independents make money just off of installation? In most of the country install rates have stayed the same over the past five years, as costs have risen. As a result, installation has not kept pace with inflation, and has decreased in cost... and in average quality. You can't charge enough for install to keep a shop open, except in very rare cases and markets. And the constant refrain is "These guys wanted to charge me a lot of money to install this, so I did it myself. How do I solve this problem?"

And I will categorically dis-a-fucking-gree that Wal-Mart is good for the American consumer. In the short run, people buy more shit at Wal-Mart because it's cheap. Most of Wal-Mart's customers can't afford to spend the amount of their annual income on consumer goods that they do spend (so cheap consumer goods are in a way a disincentive to saving by the poor), Wal-Mart has lost more American jobs for the national economy than any other single business in the country (NOT from mom-and-pops, but from US manufacturers who close their plants because Wal-Mart demands a 5% cost decrease a year, or they go to China with your category and private label it), and they are all about unsustainable, win/lose business practices (like the 5-gallon Vlasic pickle story. Google it). F!ck Wal-Mart.

ou sig

man I would read that, but my eyes crossed...anyway long story short - do what you want to do, just beware what you get off the Internet - you may pay less, but you could get a lot less than what you could get from the store.
And BTW - I did do that for the shop who installed my system - bargain with them because I was going to buy the subs off the Internet, but the shop met me in the middle and I thought that was a fair compromise because they deserved my money - so and chill the hell out; and how many times have you gone to WalMart in the last month??? WalMart is good for the consumer because of the prices and selection - but not for the local economies because of the competition...and just because they killed some suppliers because of their price demands doesnt mean anything bad. Those suppliers obviously couldnt cut it when it came down to it or they could have sold elseware or stepped up cause WalMart is here to stay (sadly)
and I can answer 90% of every question on here and I have never worked at a stereo shop - I have learned it all on my own because I love the stuff, just like you

Spoon

There are many reasons to hate Wal-Mart, but to assert that Wal-Mart's cheap goods are keeping the poor from saving is not a legitimate claim. That's akin to saying that a crackhead only smokes crack because it's cheap, and if it were more expensive then that person would cease to be a crackhead and become an upright citizen. Drug addicts don't spend all their money on drugs because they're cheap, they do it because they want to get high. Whether cheap or expensive, if they're gonna spend all their money to get high, they're gonna spend all their money to get high, and the only thing price determines is the quantity of drugs received for the money spent.

Poor people by and large don't save money, because they're poor. If you can only afford basic necessities, then there isn't anything left over to save. Compounding the problem of being poor, is the cultural push for people to live beyond their means, to aspire to a level of material wealth that's simply not attainable. No money down, no payments for six months, bad credit, no problem, that, is a big part of the problem. But only part, a consequence of being poor, is that money isn't in your pocket long enough for you to really learn about money. Readily available credit is a parasitic outgrown of people's financial ignorance. Shit, you can finance rims. If you need a loan to buy rims, that's not a purchase you should be making, regardless of how cool you might think it looks or how much pussy you think it will get ya.

Let's say you need a toaster oven and a blender, each costs $10, and you only have $10 in your budget for kitchen appliances, you'd have to choose one or the other. Wal-Mart comes along and floods the appliance market with cheap Chinese imports, sells them for $5 each. Kudos to you, you can now afford both. Thanks to Wal-Mart, your standard of living has just increase (unless you happen to be employed by Wal-Mart, they just cut your hours back and refused to let you take overtime). But even though they're now 50% what they were elsewhere, that doesn't mean you're gonna pull money out of your retirement account to kit out every room in the damn house with a toaster oven. If you do, then they problem lies with you, not the seller. "Five dollars a pop, I had to get two, I've always wanted a backup blender, no we can't afford milk this week..."

People need to be more aware of themselves, their actions, the repercussions of their actions, and the world around them. People need to take responsibility for themselves. A lot of people live paycheck to paycheck, some because they're dirt poor, but many because they just spend whatever they got, exactly what they get for it is immaterial. It's a mentality; the mindset of I get paid next week, what should I buy. If one were about to walk into a bar and someone on the street said, hey, beers in there are $7.50, but I'll sell you crack for $5, most people are gonna choose hops over rocks because price is not the sole dictate of purchase. But how many people are gonna decide not to go into the bar at all, play it lowkey every so often, because they're not saving any money partying all the time?

Thread Hijacked!

But don't get me wrong, F Wal-Mart, and Sam Walton in his grave.

dark inspire

thank you everyone for posting doctorate thesis-length posts

elduderino

Spoon:
I concur that it doesn't CAUSE it, it's a contributing factor but not a basic factor. But remember, you used the word need. Nobody needs a toaster oven. Poor people are likely to buy a toaster oven, ot a TV, or whatever, because it's cheap. Retail therapy, even for the poor, allows spending on nonessentials to make one feel better, but which do not appreciably change one's standard of living. I posit that much of Wal-Mart's sales are to poor people, of nonessentials, which allow the poor people to feel like the middle class they see on TV. It's fun to watch Wal-Mart try to decide what to do with their 5-year-flat stock price problem...

OU, if you had read it, I said that I was objecting to you encouraging someone else to not buy from a dealer. I was not objecting to the Internet - it's just a utility, like electricity. By the way, I NEVER shop at Wal-Mart. I happen to regularly choose to pay more for companies whose practices I want to endorse. As far as your attempts at posturing re what you know, not sure what you are trying to say except that you obviously think that you don't need anyone experienced or knowledgeable about stereos, and I already knew that you think that : ) Don't assume that I derive my self-concept about any expertise in audio because I can answer a couple of questions on this board.

Dark: Masters theses. PhD theses need to contribute something original to human knowledge : )


Home is a place to keep your stuff.

George Carlin

dark inspire

my bad

ASuddenSilence

Soooooo....Focal or Diamond Audio?

LB-TSX

I agree with El. I know way too many people that have been screwed over by purchasing goods on the net just to try to save some money. Plus I love the fact that he is willing to let customers try his products for 30 days and return it for a full refund. There is no way in hell you'll ever get that on the net, and actually you won't really find customer service like that anywhere. I live in so cal, and am actually thinking of driving up to oregon just because this guy seems like he knows his shit and he is all about customer service. I'd rather pay more money and be satisfied.

TommyJ25

I am looking at a similar situation. I want to buy either the Focal Utopia 5.25" or the new JL ZR525-CSi when they become available in June. I need to make my decision soon!

My old set was MB Quart QSD213's. Something went wrong with the crossovers, so I need to either get them fixed, or start looking for new stuff.