TL: Enough power?
11-11-2010, 09:23 AM
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Enough power?
Hey guys, I'm beginning my system build and want to have to sufficient power for my setup. Just looking for some input to see if I'm on the right path. I already have an optima red-top and was planning on adding another one in the truck. Also i plan on getting a ohio generator high output alternator. My question is do i need the two battery if i get the high output alternator or one battery be enough.
Just so you guys have an idea of the kind of power i need, i plan on running a Hifonics Brutus BRZ2400.1D for my bass and a MB Quart DSC 480 for my highs. Thanks in advance.
Just so you guys have an idea of the kind of power i need, i plan on running a Hifonics Brutus BRZ2400.1D for my bass and a MB Quart DSC 480 for my highs. Thanks in advance.
11-11-2010, 03:24 PM
#4
Drifting
The quality of your batteries is more important than the quantity of your batteries. You could easily get by with 2 smaller batteries if you stepped up your quality. It may cost a bit more, but it'll be worth it in the end.
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11-12-2010, 09:39 AM
#8
Three Wheelin'
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Pretty much u gotta pay to play. Xs batts are great. When I had my mega system I had 2 c&d 100 ah each batts in my trunk and 2 runs of 1/0 with a Ho alt. If u get to small of a amp and .jack your gains up then youl have more problems. Do a good batt up front and one in the trunk.
11-12-2010, 09:48 AM
#9
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Pretty much u gotta pay to play. Xs batts are great. When I had my mega system I had 2 c&d 100 ah each batts in my trunk and 2 runs of 1/0 with a Ho alt. If u get to small of a amp and .jack your gains up then youl have more problems. Do a good batt up front and one in the trunk.
11-12-2010, 11:55 AM
#10
This post is missing so much critical info.
What subs are you powering? What is the system design goals (ie, SPL competition or SQ competition, just daily driver tunes?) What is the expected run time off-battery?
Observe some parts of my build if you want a simple SQ system, and others here have done the SPL thing.
What subs are you powering? What is the system design goals (ie, SPL competition or SQ competition, just daily driver tunes?) What is the expected run time off-battery?
Observe some parts of my build if you want a simple SQ system, and others here have done the SPL thing.
11-12-2010, 12:02 PM
#11
Drifting
In addition to the charging voltage, you'll want to make sure you give the battery a "break" every now and again to get completely charged between playing sessions. If you pound on the system all the time, you're going to kill both your alternator and your battery. Ideally what you should do is get a voltage gauge, and attach it to the input terminals of your amplifier. This will allow you to monitor the voltage that your amp is seeing. If it drops low (low for me is higher than most people, but I don't like to see voltage below 13.5v) then turn the stereo down. It'll prolong the life of all of your equipment, not just the amp. Also, just because the D3100 is the largest battery that XS Power makes, doesn't mean it's the right one for you. For example, if you catch a sale at Mechman (or the Group Buy straight from the factory coming up in December) you may be able to grab a couple smaller batteries that will give you not only more discharge current but also more reserve capacity than the single D3100.
With the setup you're talking about running, you'll be better off going with the HO alt. Then, find the largest battery that any of the companies I listed makes that will fit under the hood of your car, and start there. With the HO alt and a good upfront battery, you may be alright. If not, then add another battery in the back. Again, the way to know whether or not your voltage is solid or not is with an aftermarket voltage gauge.
Pretty much u gotta pay to play. Xs batts are great. When I had my mega system I had 2 c&d 100 ah each batts in my trunk and 2 runs of 1/0 with a Ho alt. If u get to small of a amp and .jack your gains up then youl have more problems. Do a good batt up front and one in the trunk.
11-12-2010, 01:51 PM
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This post is missing so much critical info.
What subs are you powering? What is the system design goals (ie, SPL competition or SQ competition, just daily driver tunes?) What is the expected run time off-battery?
Observe some parts of my build if you want a simple SQ system, and others here have done the SPL thing.
What subs are you powering? What is the system design goals (ie, SPL competition or SQ competition, just daily driver tunes?) What is the expected run time off-battery?
Observe some parts of my build if you want a simple SQ system, and others here have done the SPL thing.
Im going to run infinity speakers to a mb quart 680w 4-channel amp and i know that will be sufficient enough for me.
For subs i was going to run two kicker comp vx series at 2 ohms in a box made by the guys who make kicker boxes.
When it comes to the bass amp im still decideing on weather i can run a hifionics 2400w amp or will the 1700w be enough.
Im going to do the big three and run a h/o alternator with 0/1 guage wire to a power distributor and then 4 gauge to the amps.
Ideally i would want to run one big battery in the front but if its cheaper to run two smaller xs batteries and still get more power then ill go that route.
11-12-2010, 02:41 PM
#13
What the hell makes you think you need 2400W of sub power for a daily driver!?!
I have built deafening systems that use a simple 100x4 front stage amp, and a ~500W substage amp.
If you want to do it without going crazy (to me crazy is installing multiple batteries and defaulting to a high end alternator...relative craziness but indulge me for a minute), you can do it. Amps these days can be incredibly efficient. As such, you may not need to do so much. Much of your system plan sounds like the opposite of what I would do, and I'm not going to tell you Infinity is trash but I will say I usually run away from the car whenever someone tries to have me take a listen to an Infinity-equipped vehicle. Your front stage will do a lot more for your musical enjoyment than your sub stage, I promise this.
BTW our HID's do not dim. The rest of the car will do it but never the headlights. Food for thought.
I have built deafening systems that use a simple 100x4 front stage amp, and a ~500W substage amp.
If you want to do it without going crazy (to me crazy is installing multiple batteries and defaulting to a high end alternator...relative craziness but indulge me for a minute), you can do it. Amps these days can be incredibly efficient. As such, you may not need to do so much. Much of your system plan sounds like the opposite of what I would do, and I'm not going to tell you Infinity is trash but I will say I usually run away from the car whenever someone tries to have me take a listen to an Infinity-equipped vehicle. Your front stage will do a lot more for your musical enjoyment than your sub stage, I promise this.
BTW our HID's do not dim. The rest of the car will do it but never the headlights. Food for thought.
11-12-2010, 02:50 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
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1 hifonics is crap and you don't need all that dirty power get a good quality amp I'm sure eggy can show u a few and get a quality box made not a trash pre fab from a store that's where a lot of the difference comes from.
11-12-2010, 02:53 PM
#16
I agree Hifonics is not crap, most Maxxsonics amps are definitely OK as far as entry-level products go!
But I will agree that a pre-fab box can suck real bad. ESPECIALLY ported. Which as I understand it, the compvx really should be in.
But I will agree that a pre-fab box can suck real bad. ESPECIALLY ported. Which as I understand it, the compvx really should be in.
11-12-2010, 02:56 PM
#17
Drifting
OP, if u want loud and want to use minimal power, go the pro audio route.
Some nice mids and some horns will take you a long way.
Port one of these and you'll be one happy camper
http://woofersetc.com/p2053/W15GTi-M...-Subwoofer.htm
Some nice mids and some horns will take you a long way.
Port one of these and you'll be one happy camper
http://woofersetc.com/p2053/W15GTi-M...-Subwoofer.htm
11-12-2010, 03:58 PM
#20
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Ok well not all is crap but the budget brand I'm praising and recommending is audiopipe I've had a few and for the money they are great I've been thinking of doing a install with a 3000
11-12-2010, 04:19 PM
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What the hell makes you think you need 2400W of sub power for a daily driver!?!
I have built deafening systems that use a simple 100x4 front stage amp, and a ~500W substage amp.
If you want to do it without going crazy (to me crazy is installing multiple batteries and defaulting to a high end alternator...relative craziness but indulge me for a minute), you can do it. Amps these days can be incredibly efficient. As such, you may not need to do so much. Much of your system plan sounds like the opposite of what I would do, and I'm not going to tell you Infinity is trash but I will say I usually run away from the car whenever someone tries to have me take a listen to an Infinity-equipped vehicle. Your front stage will do a lot more for your musical enjoyment than your sub stage, I promise this.
BTW our HID's do not dim. The rest of the car will do it but never the headlights. Food for thought.
I have built deafening systems that use a simple 100x4 front stage amp, and a ~500W substage amp.
If you want to do it without going crazy (to me crazy is installing multiple batteries and defaulting to a high end alternator...relative craziness but indulge me for a minute), you can do it. Amps these days can be incredibly efficient. As such, you may not need to do so much. Much of your system plan sounds like the opposite of what I would do, and I'm not going to tell you Infinity is trash but I will say I usually run away from the car whenever someone tries to have me take a listen to an Infinity-equipped vehicle. Your front stage will do a lot more for your musical enjoyment than your sub stage, I promise this.
BTW our HID's do not dim. The rest of the car will do it but never the headlights. Food for thought.
11-12-2010, 05:04 PM
#23
I get picked on sometimes for recommending an active setup, but I'm one of those guys that wants a really coherent, really detailed front stage just like a quality home audio setup. And so, here is my active setup recommendation for you:
You need a quality head unit if at all possible. Many good options here, I'm going to throw out the Pioneer double-din AV-H series as my recommendation.
I recommend a processor or something that has that ability, and lately the new JBL MS amps would do this. The JBL MS-A1004 would be a nice choice, and there is tons of power in there. It runs about $549, which is a grip but it has an on-board processor (which those usually run 500-800 and make a BIG difference)
With an active setup, you don't need to run component speakers. You can buy individual drivers and install them in the doors, and individual tweeters and build them into the a-pillar.
11-12-2010, 11:54 PM
#25
Crescendo is a sweet value but it isn't efficient (sounds great though.)
Mini DSP is something I REALLY want to try out, however for a newbie I think implementing them with a zero-noise output might be really hard.
When the processor inside the amp (like the X4R, the JBL MS amps, and of course the Zapco DC's), noise seems to be a non-issue moreso than many other combination I've tried so far.
To the OP, I'd suggest to go with the MS8 but the JBL amp does most of its work for you and you get a powerful amp to boot. There are cheaper amps, I admit. Only one of them, however, is affordable AND has a processor onboard. That would be the discontinued and hard to find Kenwood X4R (which I have owned, used, and loved.) IF you can find one, disregard the JBL recommendation and save the cash!
Hmmm, makes me think... wonder if I can find one for you!
BRB!
Mini DSP is something I REALLY want to try out, however for a newbie I think implementing them with a zero-noise output might be really hard.
When the processor inside the amp (like the X4R, the JBL MS amps, and of course the Zapco DC's), noise seems to be a non-issue moreso than many other combination I've tried so far.
To the OP, I'd suggest to go with the MS8 but the JBL amp does most of its work for you and you get a powerful amp to boot. There are cheaper amps, I admit. Only one of them, however, is affordable AND has a processor onboard. That would be the discontinued and hard to find Kenwood X4R (which I have owned, used, and loved.) IF you can find one, disregard the JBL recommendation and save the cash!
Hmmm, makes me think... wonder if I can find one for you!
BRB!
11-13-2010, 12:21 AM
#26
OK!
Time to point you in a very specific direction, here's a potentially awesome daily driver SQ and SPL setup.
Kenwood X4R amp. This is your 4ch amp (powers the front woofers and front tweeters), and your processor which means precise crossover, time alignment, and EQ adjustments can be made entirely on-board the amp.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...n_KAC-X4R.aspx
$299. I shopped around and this was the best I found on a RETAIL NEW unit.
Kenwood X1R sub amp. I've got a thing about matching, so I figured this would be perfect in my world and hopefully yours. I have run this amp before, and I LOVE what it does for subs. Plenty of power, efficient, clean sound and small.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...n_KAC-X1R.aspx
$289. This X1R is also plentiful on ebay used or refurbished, and that's fine but remember the risks of course.
You haven't said you purchased a head unit yet, so if you are in the hunt for one, this is my suggestion:
The Pioneer AVH-P3200BT http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PIONEER-AVH-...item3f0483a676
$349
Of course its a bit much if you don't want dvd ability (but its great to have it since you can stuff tons of music on a DVD and watching movies will sitting waiting for someone is cool.) This unit has great sound quality though, promise that much.
For power wire, I can help! This is the best deal you'll find for 1/0 gauge, I can pretty much guarantee you. For a while there when I was doing a run of sound systems for friends and family, I ordered a stack of these kits. No fuse block needed, the included battery terminal IS the fuse. Awesome design.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PHOEN...fAudioQ5fVideo
$79
You won't need all 4 sections of this distribution block, but you do need 3 so this one is the best value. I have used 5 of these, love em all.
http://cgi.ebay.com/EFX-1-0-GA-4-way...item3362533a3f
$30
A matching ground distribution block is a good idea,
I've used this one many times, good solid product
http://cgi.ebay.com/SCOSCHE-EFX-CBLO...item1c144346eb
$19 (hard to find cheaper.)
For RCA's, you need two separate 2ch runs, and you also need two Y splitters (female to two male)
These should do it (X 2) http://cgi.ebay.com/Phoenix-Gold-RS2...item3caa6e3290
$8
Don't forget to buy splitters, I don't have any specific recommendations as they are all over the place. You need (female to two male)
More to come.
Time to point you in a very specific direction, here's a potentially awesome daily driver SQ and SPL setup.
Kenwood X4R amp. This is your 4ch amp (powers the front woofers and front tweeters), and your processor which means precise crossover, time alignment, and EQ adjustments can be made entirely on-board the amp.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...n_KAC-X4R.aspx
$299. I shopped around and this was the best I found on a RETAIL NEW unit.
Kenwood X1R sub amp. I've got a thing about matching, so I figured this would be perfect in my world and hopefully yours. I have run this amp before, and I LOVE what it does for subs. Plenty of power, efficient, clean sound and small.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...n_KAC-X1R.aspx
$289. This X1R is also plentiful on ebay used or refurbished, and that's fine but remember the risks of course.
You haven't said you purchased a head unit yet, so if you are in the hunt for one, this is my suggestion:
The Pioneer AVH-P3200BT http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PIONEER-AVH-...item3f0483a676
$349
Of course its a bit much if you don't want dvd ability (but its great to have it since you can stuff tons of music on a DVD and watching movies will sitting waiting for someone is cool.) This unit has great sound quality though, promise that much.
For power wire, I can help! This is the best deal you'll find for 1/0 gauge, I can pretty much guarantee you. For a while there when I was doing a run of sound systems for friends and family, I ordered a stack of these kits. No fuse block needed, the included battery terminal IS the fuse. Awesome design.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PHOEN...fAudioQ5fVideo
$79
You won't need all 4 sections of this distribution block, but you do need 3 so this one is the best value. I have used 5 of these, love em all.
http://cgi.ebay.com/EFX-1-0-GA-4-way...item3362533a3f
$30
A matching ground distribution block is a good idea,
I've used this one many times, good solid product
http://cgi.ebay.com/SCOSCHE-EFX-CBLO...item1c144346eb
$19 (hard to find cheaper.)
For RCA's, you need two separate 2ch runs, and you also need two Y splitters (female to two male)
These should do it (X 2) http://cgi.ebay.com/Phoenix-Gold-RS2...item3caa6e3290
$8
Don't forget to buy splitters, I don't have any specific recommendations as they are all over the place. You need (female to two male)
More to come.
11-13-2010, 01:00 AM
#27
Drifting
Hmm
xr1
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...n_KAC-X1R.aspx
+ 2 jbl p1's
http://www.woofersetc.com/p3148/P122...-Subwoofer.htm
this HAS to be a misprint
Fourth, i'm know you're an sq guy and all, but 75 x 4 isn't alot in the realm of things when you need a massively loud front stage. I needed to give my faital 8's 300 per and the de500's 75 per to keep up with the dual ported xcons at high levels, so efficiency will play a huge role here for OP.
xr1
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...n_KAC-X1R.aspx
+ 2 jbl p1's
http://www.woofersetc.com/p3148/P122...-Subwoofer.htm
this HAS to be a misprint
# Frequency Response: n/a
# Recommended RMS Power: 400W
# Peak Power Handling: 1200W
# Impedance: dual 2 ohms
# Size: 12 inch
# Rec. Sealed Box Dims: 1.00 cu. ft.
# Rec. Ported Box Dims: 1.75 cu. ft.
# Free Air Usage: not recommended
# Sensitivity: 97 dB
# Recommended RMS Power: 400W
# Peak Power Handling: 1200W
# Impedance: dual 2 ohms
# Size: 12 inch
# Rec. Sealed Box Dims: 1.00 cu. ft.
# Rec. Ported Box Dims: 1.75 cu. ft.
# Free Air Usage: not recommended
# Sensitivity: 97 dB
Last edited by eggyhustles; 11-13-2010 at 01:10 AM.
11-13-2010, 01:07 AM
#28
Drifting
This can work well
8 ohm...but would still get semi loud off 35w due it's sensitivity
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=294-647
image dynamic xs 65's are more sensitive but cost more.
There's also stuff from beyma, soundstream, and the like but you'll have to sacrifice low end.
Mated with
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...08&ctab=2#Tabs
8 ohm...but would still get semi loud off 35w due it's sensitivity
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=294-647
image dynamic xs 65's are more sensitive but cost more.
There's also stuff from beyma, soundstream, and the like but you'll have to sacrifice low end.
Mated with
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...08&ctab=2#Tabs
11-13-2010, 06:09 PM
#29
Don't worry the X4R I had last drove a set of H-Audio Ebony mids and Alpine SPX-17PRO tweeters, both of which aren't super efficient at all. There was definitely enough power to make things uncomfortably loud in the car. It is probably under-rated to be fair. It is a dual power supply amp, which surprises a lot of people.
(Its the processing that I think matters the most, hence my strong suggestion for using it or the JBL amp.)
Those JBL subs are probably 97dB efficient but not measured at one watt (instead I bet it is measured at 2.83v) And if you are doing the math back to 8ohm efficiency equivalent 91dB (I think.)
Still great subs in the right box!
(Its the processing that I think matters the most, hence my strong suggestion for using it or the JBL amp.)
Those JBL subs are probably 97dB efficient but not measured at one watt (instead I bet it is measured at 2.83v) And if you are doing the math back to 8ohm efficiency equivalent 91dB (I think.)
Still great subs in the right box!
Hmm
xr1
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...n_KAC-X1R.aspx
+ 2 jbl p1's
http://www.woofersetc.com/p3148/P122...-Subwoofer.htm
this HAS to be a misprint
Fourth, i'm know you're an sq guy and all, but 75 x 4 isn't alot in the realm of things when you need a massively loud front stage. I needed to give my faital 8's 300 per and the de500's 75 per to keep up with the dual ported xcons at high levels, so efficiency will play a huge role here for OP.
xr1
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...n_KAC-X1R.aspx
+ 2 jbl p1's
http://www.woofersetc.com/p3148/P122...-Subwoofer.htm
this HAS to be a misprint
Fourth, i'm know you're an sq guy and all, but 75 x 4 isn't alot in the realm of things when you need a massively loud front stage. I needed to give my faital 8's 300 per and the de500's 75 per to keep up with the dual ported xcons at high levels, so efficiency will play a huge role here for OP.
11-14-2010, 12:03 AM
#33
Just FYI I'm running an Energizer battery from Samsclub. Seems to do the trick nicely.
Side note: Just because I have a 150x4 (conservative) main amp and a 1700x1 sub amp doesn't mean I use all of it. In fact, rarely do we ever push our equipment to these peak RMS numbers. Moral of the story is that power isn't really all that important, as long as you have enough.
Side note: Just because I have a 150x4 (conservative) main amp and a 1700x1 sub amp doesn't mean I use all of it. In fact, rarely do we ever push our equipment to these peak RMS numbers. Moral of the story is that power isn't really all that important, as long as you have enough.
11-14-2010, 06:23 PM
#35
Drifting
crzygos, the best batts are the ones I listed above. XS Power, Stinger/Odyssey, Northstar and Cactus Sounds.
11-14-2010, 06:38 PM
#36
Just FYI I'm running an Energizer battery from Samsclub. Seems to do the trick nicely.
Side note: Just because I have a 150x4 (conservative) main amp and a 1700x1 sub amp doesn't mean I use all of it. In fact, rarely do we ever push our equipment to these peak RMS numbers. Moral of the story is that power isn't really all that important, as long as you have enough.
Side note: Just because I have a 150x4 (conservative) main amp and a 1700x1 sub amp doesn't mean I use all of it. In fact, rarely do we ever push our equipment to these peak RMS numbers. Moral of the story is that power isn't really all that important, as long as you have enough.
11-14-2010, 07:52 PM
#37
It was good for its time but these days it is outclassed easily by the Audison Bit1, JBL MS8, and possibly the MiniDSP boxes.
To me, there is a problem with noise every single time I use one. I own two of them and I have installed a bunch of them, and in fact I have killed one by connecting too much to the remote-out feature (my fault.)